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WHO team visits Wuhan research lab at center of speculation

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By EMILY WANG FUJIYAMA

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Who and it’s leader are puppets of the CCP in my opinion. I am sure many of you disagree, but that is my feeling.

4 ( +17 / -13 )

All the Key Persons at the Lab are brainwashed and threatened by the CCP.

All evidences, about engineering the Virus at that Lab and set it free by accident or on purpose, were already destroyed long time ago.

6 ( +19 / -13 )

@SandyBeachHeaven

I agree with you.

It is not only that all evidences are already destroyed and people are getting pushed under strong pressure by the CCP, I also guess that the CCP pays a lot of "corruption money" to the WHO, and tell them what they should publish to the world.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

Is WHO afraid of CCP ?

Yes, what I perceive is and what's stated is that China had previously agreed to allow the international scientific team to enter the city and carry out its work but suddenly China denied and stopped international scientific to do research but eventually allowed WHO which is doing research and I m quite sure they wont claim anything as China would have covered and removed all its evidences and China has a great hold on business with its friendly countries I don't thing there would be a relevant outcome of the inspection which is done by inspectors of WHO.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

All evidences, about engineering the Virus at that Lab and set it free by accident or on purpose, were already destroyed long time ago.

But all the scientific evidence that clearly point to a natural origin for the virus (including the very important fact that the first human cases happened outside of Wuhan city weeks before the outbreaks were detected) still can prove the conspiracy theory as worthless.

If your explanation depends absolutely on not having any evidence of something then it is not an explanation, it is just something you like to think, because the same could be said about absolutely everything.

Why there is no evidence of the alien/vatican/atlantean/hollow earth/egyptian curse origin of the virus? destroyed long ago.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

All evidences, about engineering the Virus at that Lab and set it free by accident or on purpose, were already destroyed long time ago.

"A lack of evidence for my view is evidence itself" is lunacy.

For example, I could say that you are a criminal. I don't have any evidence, of course - but that's because you're such a master criminal that you destroyed all the evidence, which proves that you're a criminal.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

Like a POW, the member in the center of the photo, is indicating "something is rotten here".

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

According to some virologists, the characteristics of the virus as it mutates are more characteristic of somehting that was synthesized than something naturally occurring. And would you trust the Chinese government to tell you the truth if it jumped the fence and they had been working on biological weapons, like the Russians are?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Evidence of absence

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

During the last weeks I am very surprised how contradictory your posts are.

For example?

It is very easy to be consistent, just keep on the side of the science instead of imaginary conspiracies, those are the ones that end up being very contradictory.

Maybe what you think is "contradictory" is arguing for an objective point against subjective exaggerations on both sides. That is not contradictory, it is just disproving mistakes and lies.

I have been accused to being users (maybe even you) that use terribly bad arguments just so I can have an easy target to disprove, it is as irrelevant as your wonderings. Focus on the arguments, if they prove you mistaken change your mind.

According to some virologists, the characteristics of the virus as it mutates are more characteristic of somehting that was synthesized than something naturally occurring. And would you trust the Chinese government to tell you the truth if it jumped the fence and they had been working on biological weapons, like the Russians are?

How about a reference for those virologists saying so, the virus has nothing that seems artificial, and the mutations are as expected from a pathogen newly adapted to humans, maybe the people that said so are not really experts or you understood them incorrectly.

Not trusting someone does not mean that everything they say has to be false. What if somebody ask them if the virus came from captive unicorns? if they say that unicorns don't exist, would your distrust mean that they do?

Fortunately for this you don't have to even listen to anything the CCP has to say. You can just read the scientific articles and reports published from experts all over the world that clearly say the virus is natural beyond any reasonable doubt, the same as SARS and MERS and the countless other pathogens that came to infect humans in the same way.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

But all the scientific evidence that clearly point to a natural origin for the virus

No, that is false. That is a view that has been pushed by researchers that are directly or indirectly involved with the gain of function research that produced this virus, including one member (Daszak) of this "investigation" team.

Daszak was awarded an NIH grant for a research preject (Understanding the Risk of Bat Coronavirus Emergence) that he conducted together with the WIV, using their expertise of gain of function, to create what has been unleashed (accidentally or on purpose) on the world. Everything is pointing to this virus originating from the Wuhan lab.

Its precursor is natural, but the version that has been so deadly for humans has been created in the WIV.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

This virus was out around the world in late summer and early fall of 2019.

We had it from Taiwan.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

Its precursor is natural, but the version that has been so deadly for humans has been created in the WIV.

Wait. Is Covid-19 just a normal cold virus that doesn't necessitate lockdowns or is it a deadly bioweapon? You're advocating for both views at the same time, but you really need to pick one approach.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Daszak is pictured walking around without his mask, talking on the phone, leaving his drink can on a public water fountain and touching his mouth with his bare hands.” -

“... Daszak was awarded a grant for ...Understanding the Risk of Coronavirus”.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Any investigation by WHO has zero credibility when it comes to Covid19. They have worked against the interests of most of their members by refusing to declare a pandemic until it was far too late (mid March). On the other hand, they have done a very good and proactive job of praising China since day 1.

Also, China would not allow such an investigation if the outcome wasn't already known in advance.

That is 100 % sure.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

No, that is false. That is a view that has been pushed by researchers that are directly or indirectly involved with the gain of function research that produced this virus, including one member (Daszak) of this "investigation" team.

It is trivially easy to find articles in all the best journals proving it, with real scientific data, that mean it is not false, every single scientific and medical association in the world share this opinion. According to you that would mean the whole world, every expert, every association is on the conspiracy, just because... That is not believable at all. At least try to bring proof of this supposedly world wide conspiracy if you expect people to believe you.

Everything is pointing to this virus originating from the Wuhan lab.

The opposite, nothing is pointing to that conclusion, and everything pointing to the natural origin. Either all the experts of the world are wrong (or in that pointless conspiracy) or you are. I know what is more likely.

Don’t misunderstand...but it is obvious that there are more persons than only one behind Virusrex..

Probably a crew of a Laboratory or a medical institution..

Exactly as it is obvious you are supposed to be just an account of mine purposefully made to be easily disproven, it would be impossible for anybody to be at the same time so frequently mistaken but supposedly interested on a topic. At least that is the argument used to "discover" me.

I supposed I should be glad to see myself accepting to be me, even if so indirectly (?)

Think about a topic that really interest you, that you know well, if other people say something terribly mistaken about it, would it take a lot of effort and time to correct them? obviously not. This idea of yours that a whole team of people is necessary to do what even an elementary level kid could do as long as the interest is there betrays more about how difficult you find these topics than the number of people I am supposed to be.

You could not even find one example of me being "contradictory", what do you think this means? how about finding examples of how I "talk differently"? do you expect people to have only a very limited vocabulary so you can believe they are not "a team"? Maybe people that believe in irrational conspiracies end up thinking every single thing is a conspiracy, specially when it makes no sense. If there were many people interested in correcting people that are wrong, why would not each make an account? what would be the point in pretending to be one person?

5 ( +11 / -6 )

You're right - this seems to encapsulate the argument against it being synthetic pretty well:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-scientists-think-the-novel-coronavirus-developed-naturally-not-in-a-chinese-lab/

1 ( +6 / -5 )

WHO team visits Wuhan research lab at center of speculation

Oh, surprise so they actually went there. I guess the CCP found out that the original plan to make it off-limits simply looked to blatant.

I doubt they get to talk to the relevant people there though, and certainly not in a free manner.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Wait. Is Covid-19 just a normal cold virus that doesn't necessitate lockdowns or is it a deadly bioweapon? You're advocating for both views at the same time, but you really need to pick one approach.

I would have to pick a side if I thought it was either 100% natural or 100% synthesized by man, but neither of these represent my views.

This started with a natural bat corona virus, perhaps the one that was sent to the WIV in 2012 after six miners in the Yunnan province fell ill after spending weeks shoveling bat feces. Three eventually died. None of these miners infected their loved ones, friends, or anyone else. Many suspect this virus was then modified at the WIV exactly as proposed in the NIH grant application and they ended up creating SARS-CoV2. It was engineered to make it extremely easy to transmit. So obviously Daszak will never say that the virus originated at the WIV, he funded that project!

Steve Hilton does a good job explaining this:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/NextRevFNC/

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

@Virusrex

It seems that my assumption is absolutely correct.

How does people say: Hit dogs bite.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

I would have to pick a side if I thought it was either 100% natural or 100% synthesized by man, but neither of these represent my views.

Well, if you now have to base your opinion on a fantasy without proof based on completely open information that every expert in a related field already have and that did not change anyone's opinion there is little that can be said to convince you, you still have not explained how the virus magically managed to avoid causing cases in a very crowded city, escaped to the rural areas where slowly was dispersed in areas with low population density only to go back to the crowded city and only then began to cause obvious outbreaks. For some reason your source makes absolutely no effort to clarify this, even hiding this well known fact because it spoils completely the fantasy based theory.

It seems that my assumption is absolutely correct.

How does people say: Hit dogs bite.

Yes, extremely evident, proving that your assumption makes no sense, that you found no examples of what you though were "proof" and that it is a completely illogical and unnecessary thing to do that brings no benefit to anybody obviously proves you are right! As I said, it is nice to see myself proving I am me with such convoluted contradictory theories (and since you are me, that proved that I am contradictory!) It became clear I am a group of people using a group of accounts.

As frequently said, I can explain things to you, but I cannot understand the things for you.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

expat

You're right - this seems to encapsulate the argument against it being synthetic pretty well:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-scientists-think-the-novel-coronavirus-developed-naturally-not-in-a-chinese-lab/

There are also arguments for it being synthetic:

https://zenodo.org/record/4477081#.YBVzC2Ruc-Q

Fact is, we don´t know. But if it developed naturally, that still does not mean the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where they doing and publishing research on precisely this type of virus has nothing to do with it.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Watching the corrupt chinese government officials deniying everything left and right is indeed very amusing. Next they'll say Japan engineered it and sent it to china via pigeons... How about china grows a pair and starts standing upright - they detected it months before it was widespread, and some idiot high level official worthy of death penaly decided it is better to simply hide the information instead of act on it long enough for the virus to spread around.

More, I believe they even arrested and otherwise silenced doctors trying to warn them - as such issues couldn't possibly happen in a communist worker's paradise. Stupidity of the highest degree, and the rest of the world should not tolerate it any longer.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

This pandemic started the beginning of 2020. Seems too little too late.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

But if it developed naturally, that still does not mean the Wuhan Institute of Virology

exactly! These guys were deliberately going all around China and sampling all possible coronaviruses from every hole they could find. If someone could get this virus is most likely some scientist from that lab. Late reports that it actually started outside Wuhan were obviously manufactured by CCP, so can’t be taken seriously.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

virusrex,

No matter how the Government of China, contorts the denials, as sure, as I am a monkey’s uncle the WHO team will find diddly-squat.

You this, I know this, we all know that will be the case.

I would and the families of the 2.24 million dead, would be grateful of you could extend a tad more respect for the deceased, and stop defending the indefensible.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

If someone could get this virus is most likely some scientist from that lab. Late reports that it actually started outside Wuhan were obviously manufactured by CCP, so can’t be taken seriously.

That is still wrong, farmers, hunters, fisshers, etc. are in constant contact with wild animals infected with the viruses, these contacts have resulted in new infections for humans frequently, so the laboratory escape is still an illogical theory.

And also, if your only defense for every single argument that proves you wrong with objective and well validated evidence is that everything must be a lie (without any proof of that) you are a victim of circular reasoning, your beliefs must be true because everything that proves you wrong is a lie, and things that prove you wrong are all lies because what you believe must be true.

I would and the families of the 2.24 million dead, would be grateful of you could extend a tad more respect for the deceased, and stop defending the indefensible.

You are terribly confused, and much more disrespectful because according to you the only thing that the CCP did wrong is a supposed laboratory leak (because that is the only thing I and the scientific community in general say its not realistically possible). If you think that making obvious how this makes no sense somehow means China did nothing else wrong you could not be more wrong.

Stop deflecting their many flaws and trying to make it all dependent on the only thing that can surely be demonstrated as false.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

World Health Organization investigators on Wednesday visited a research center in the Chinese city of Wuhan that has been the subject of speculation about the origins of the coronavirus

After more than 1 year do you really expect to find any evidence of anything any lab that was used has already been moved to a new secure location and the old lab 100% emptied and sterilised and probably used for something else. And any staff that would have been involved would be now at the new location.

I bet only fake staff and actors are at the location they are looking at.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

I bet only fake staff and actors are at the location they are looking at.

This is good stuff.

Go on pls

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@virusrex: But all the scientific evidence that clearly point to a natural origin for the virus (including the very important fact that the first human cases happened outside of Wuhan city weeks before the outbreaks were detected) still can prove the conspiracy theory as worthless.

I also don’t necessarily believe that the CCP manufactured the virus at the lab in Wuhan but the idea that the first cases appeared outside of the city isn’t definitive about anything. There are any number of potential explanations for it being accidentally or purposefully transported outside of the city where it may have been first found. Although I have no training or particular insight on the matter I would presume that scientists would be capable of identifying an unnatural virus.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Aren’t we still ‘questioning the authenticity’ of the WHO investigation? (Lost track of this thread after the First 4 opinions.) One commenter is rebutting other comments that appear to have been deleted or redacted.

”...nothing is pointing to conclusion, ... || Don’t misunderstand...but it is obvious there are more persons than one behind ___. “...you are supposed to be just an account of mine purposefully made to be easily disproven... I supposed I should be glad to see myself accepting to be me, even if so indirectly (?)...

About what is this person talking? Seems like *a lot of rhetoric and filibustering to monopolize the comments so people lose interest in the topic/debate** and move on*.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I also don’t necessarily believe that the CCP manufactured the virus at the lab in Wuhan but the idea that the first cases appeared outside of the city isn’t definitive about anything. There are any number of potential explanations for it being accidentally or purposefully transported outside of the city where it may have been first found. Although I have no training or particular insight on the matter I would presume that scientists would be capable of identifying an unnatural virus.

That is not the only argument, only one in many, the important part is that the natural origin explains all pieces of evidence and it was a situation expected since long before, because it has happened before. Scientist already have examined the virus genome and found it to be as it would be expected from a natural occurrence.

Against this simple and coherent explanation you offer increasingly complicated and difficult to happen situations, for every piece of evidence the explanation gets more and more fantastic and unbelievable. Now the virus escaped from the lab, but at the same time was transported to the environment where it would be found if appeared naturally, for not purpose at all.

The "definitive" part is not that one detail is all, but that every detail that is found keeps supporting one of the explanations, over and over again. The place of appearance directly contradicts the theory of an accidental release from the lab.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

The people speculating about this lab, and complaining about the 'cozy relationship' between WHO and China are, if not always the same people who insist Trump was reelected and complaining about the 'cozy relationship' between Dominion Machines and the Democrats, definitely playing in the same league, by same rules.

So why is any news organization treating them as having any credibility?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

The WIV received in 2012 a natural bat coronavirus that infected 6 guys who had to shovel bat feces for weeks to become infected. At that time the virus was not transmissible between humans. The virus was sent to a place where they did gain of function research, giving bat corona viruses the ability to be easily transmissible between humans, they received funding from Daszak to do gain of function research on bat coronaviruses. And then SARSCoV2 emerged, and the WIV is immediately shut down and their database are modified.

Yeah, everything checks out, must be a natural virus .....

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@virusrex

*That is not the only argument, only one in many, the important part is that the natural origin explains all pieces of evidence and it was a situation expected since long before, because it has happened before. Scientist already have examined the virus genome and found it to be as it would be expected from a natural occurrence. *If this was a situation expected long ago and because it happened before, explain why the best minds world over can't solve a problem that existed before? If one has a common cold, world over its known how to treat it. Your logic seems fuzzy, especially from your quote, it sounds as if the world scientist knew about this virus because its been here before and they still don't know how to treat it!!! Ok I get it, its a COLD right? Wrong!!! Keep guessing or rambling on with pointless views!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

The WIV received in 2012 a natural bat coronavirus that infected 6 guys who had to shovel bat feces for weeks to become infected. At that time the virus was not transmissible between humans. The virus was sent to a place where they did gain of function research, giving bat corona viruses the ability to be easily transmissible between humans, they received funding from Daszak to do gain of function research on bat coronaviruses. And then SARSCoV2 emerged, and the WIV is immediately shut down and their database are modified.

Yeah, everything checks out, must be a natural virus .....

Even if you repeat the same baseless theory it is still incongruent with the evidence. Bat coronaviruses are well known to be dangerous to humans, and not only viruses of this family but many others as well, that is why they are being studied. That does not change the fact that the research to allow human infection used a much more efficient and elegant solution that allowed for human to human transmission, but that was not what the adaptation ended up granting to SARS-CoV-2.

Gain of function is done in every laboratory of the world that deal with viruses, it is the minimum kind of thing to do to get meaningful results, according to your flawed theory every laboratory of the world would be as suspicious.

Not to mention (again) that it does absolutely nothing to explain the magical virus that can escape without causing clusters in a very populated city and instead it appears in a much more rural area, exactly as it would be expected from a natural transmission. You can read the article that expat already brought, it explains the incongruences of your theory and how it fails to account for a lot of details in a much better way.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

*If this was a situation expected long ago and because it happened before, explain why the best minds world over can't solve a problem that existed before? If one has a common cold, world over its known how to treat it. Your logic seems fuzzy

The logic that is fuzzy is thinking that if a problem is easily predicted to happen then it must be as easy to prevent it or to deal with it once it is here, those are three completely different things.

For example climate change is obvious and clear, and many of their effects are already being described, but stopping them from happening is not easy matter, and correcting the huge world changing problems that will happen once the change is well established is for all practical purposes impossible at this level of technology.

What makes you think that expecting a problem equals to being able to solve it when it comes? Think for a moment on what kind of other huge problems could be easily predicted, but are not so easy to solve once that happened?

Playing with matches on a building full of flammable materials, skiing on a slope closed because of high risks of avalanches, smoking 3 packs a day even if you know very well that it causes cancer.

The reality is that COVID-19 is not a cold, it has never been, so it cannot be so easily solved as a cold, the first SARS and the MERS were the same kind of scares, also were predicted but we got lucky and the pandemic stopped before transmission was well established and spread over the world. This time the Chinese did not act correctly nor opportunely and the problem became much more difficult to solve.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

They probably let them go check out the gift shop, then herded them back on the bus.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

CCP lied, people died. The whistleblower scientists all disappeared. WHO was complicit in the coverup.

CCP will owe the world $ trillions.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

WHO was complicit in the coverup.

I love these fools who criticize the WHO, but don't explain how the WHO would have been better served by becoming a political organization, getting themselves banned from China, and becoming the Four Fifths of the World Health Organization.

When you dig a little deeper, you find out that every single moron who claims the WHO was complicit, was someone who also listened to and believed the things Trump was saying to try to cover his incompetence with the pandemic.

Not exactly the sharpest crayons in the box.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Strangerland

I love these fools who criticize the WHO, but don't explain how the WHO would have been better served by becoming a political organization getting themselves banned from China

They are a political organization now, being controlled by and acting on behalf of the CCP. If they were unpolitical and CHina banned them, it would reflect deservedly on the CCP. On the other hand, they would not deny the existance of Taiwan as they do now.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

According to some virologists, the characteristics of the virus as it mutates are more characteristic of somehting that was synthesized than something naturally occurring.

[Citation Needed]

3 ( +5 / -2 )

They are a political organization now, being controlled by and acting on behalf of the CCP...

Hmm, when I read that statement, something comes to mind...

Oh yeah, this:

I love these fools who criticize the WHO, but don't explain how the WHO would have been better served by becoming a political organization, getting themselves banned from China, and becoming the Four Fifths of the World Health Organization.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Stupid conspiracy theories abound. The only speculation is from easily-led idiots or evil-minded manipulators. At least bankers with space lasers can be ruled out in this case. Still, be nice to your banker just in case.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I love these fools who criticize the WHO, but don't explain how the WHO would have been better served by becoming a political organization, getting themselves banned from China, and becoming the Four Fifths of the World Health Organization.

The WHO, the health organization and not the hand,, is by its existence as a government funded organization directed by politically appointed bureaucrats, a political entity. It is not a privately funded and operated organization. Just calling them “political” isn’t a slur per se. It’s just a fact. The problem is when the organization is impacted in its operations by political concerns. The initial actions and failures to act due to well known pressure from the CCP caused them to become politicized. Just because a group of people are considered above reproach due to their laudable mission, does not obviate the fact that it is run by human beings who are susceptible to questionable influences. Take the newly sainted President Biden - he has been credibly accused of rape by a former employee in his Congressional office. We’ve all seen multiple videos of him feeling up underaged girls and young women. The point being that just because he is now worshipped as the latest Great White Hope, he is a human being subject to human failings just as the leaders of the WHO have been.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The problem is when the organization is impacted in its operations by political concerns.

But the impact do not come solely from China, the organization has been almost completely defanged for more than 10 years thanks to the efforts of the US and Europe, that heavily reacted against the organization for doing the job it was supposed to do, they got a chance to weaken it in the swine influenza pandemic and as a result the WHO now cannot go against the interests of any country, not only China. Now it completely depends on voluntary cooperation and has no strength to pressure for it like before.

Now the same countries that made sure the WHO cannot impose itself over anything bitterly complain because it cannot impose itself over China, that is just making it a scapegoat and not accepting responsibility for their own actions.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The WHO, the health organization and not the hand,, is by its existence as a government funded organization directed by politically appointed bureaucrats, a political entity. It is not a privately funded and operated organization. Just calling them “political” isn’t a slur per se. It’s just a fact. The problem is when the organization is impacted in its operations by political concerns. The initial actions and failures to act due to well known pressure from the CCP caused them to become politicized. Just because a group of people are considered above reproach due to their laudable mission, does not obviate the fact that it is run by human beings who are susceptible to questionable influences. Take the newly sainted President Biden - he has been credibly accused of rape by a former employee in his Congressional office. We’ve all seen multiple videos of him feeling up underaged girls and young women. The point being that just because he is now worshipped as the latest Great White Hope, he is a human being subject to human failings just as the leaders of the WHO have been.

Hmm, when I read that statement, something comes to mind...

Oh yeah, this:

I love these fools who criticize the WHO, but don't explain how the WHO would have been better served by becoming a political organization, getting themselves banned from China, and becoming the Four Fifths of the World Health Organization.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"Fact is, we don´t know. But if it developed naturally, that still does not mean the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where they doing and publishing research on precisely this type of virus has nothing to do with it." Actually, if its evolution occurred outside a lab, that's exactly what it means... Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem, or are unable to change your opinion in light of new evidence...

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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