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Why it's still in Russia's interest to mess with U.S. politics

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By ANGELA CHARLTON

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Trump doesn't hate America. I doubt he gives it much thought.

Trump is about Trump. Making "big deals" that he can claim victory over is what he loves.

What America learned is that electing someone with ZERO govt experience is a terrible idea. I'd doubt President Trump could pass an 8th grade US Civics test from what he's asked, requested, demanded the other parts of govt attempt.

He's confused between what powers a President has and what powers dictators have.

What I find really sad is that the US Congress didn't sit him down and school the man about his role in the govt the day after he was sworn in. They didn't have the cojones.

Outside forces aren't altering election results. Their work happens in the years, months, and days prior to the election to cause a wide split between American Citizens, polarizing the voters. They are using open societies, the media, social networks, and crazies with 0.5% ideas to separate the Americans sitting in the middle from all the fringe partisan types. It is very clear who those are in these comments.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That is another thing I was tired of hearing. Don't hear it much anymore. The claim that 17 US intelligence agencies confirmed Russian meddling...

It is literally impossible to keep up on all the screwups by this administration. Just because you don't hear about it, doesn't mean Trump doesn't hate America and Americans. It just means we can only keep up with the current things he's done to show he hate Americans, there isn't enough bandwidth to keep showing all the previous things he did to show he hates America and Americans.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

That is another thing I was tired of hearing. Don't hear it much anymore. The claim that 17 US intelligence agencies confirmed Russian meddling...

It was just a statement from one guy who overseas the 17 agencies. It's not that the 17 agencies independently come up with the same conclusion.

Grossly inaccurate.....

When President Donald Trump appeared to accept Russian President Vladimir Putin’s denials of Russian meddling in the 2016 election Monday, he wasn’t just breaking with Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

He was also disagreeing with U.S. intelligence agencies; two congressional committees that investigated the issue; his own Defense secretary, director of national intelligence and national security adviser; and private cybersecurity experts.

A report issued by high-ranking American intelligence officials in January of 2017 concluded that Russian operatives reporting to Putin interfered in the 2016 presidential election in favor of Trump. It was drafted and compiled by the CIA, the FBI and the National Security Agency.

The document stated that Putin “ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election” aiming to “denigrate Secretary Clinton” and showing a “clear preference for President-elect Trump.”

http://time.com/5340060/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-summit-russia-meddling/

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It was just a statement from one guy who overseas the 17 agencies. It's not that the 17 agencies independently come up with the same conclusion

Yep, you completely missed the assent then be the intelligence agencies. Thanks for the confirmation. Get back to us after you've completed your research, which will help you not be so inaccurate.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Raw Beer: You seemed to have missed the intelligence agencies' take.

That is another thing I was tired of hearing. Don't hear it much anymore. The claim that 17 US intelligence agencies confirmed Russian meddling...

It was just a statement from one guy who overseas the 17 agencies. It's not that the 17 agencies independently come up with the same conclusion.

And that guy, who made that statement, is Clapper; the same guy who had previously lied under oath when asked about the government's mass surveillance of Americans.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Here's some free advice. Relax. Don't be fooled by your own hyperbole or petty smartypants witticisms.

I can see why your advice is free. Smartypants - I haven't been called that since elementary school...

Discarding any pie in the sky "Russian interference", the mid-terms usually mean bad news for the party in power.

Pie in the sky - it's more like Putin in the sky...as in cyber space...

However, with one party running on ideas and the other running on resistance, smart money's on the party of ideas and economic growth with which the majority of Americans agree.

You mean the party of Putin, the party of White Supremacists and the KKK, the party of Roy Moore, the party of hate, division, and let's lock up some immigrant children?

That blue wave may prove to be the proverbial pollster's delusion. I wouldn't discount high-pitched Republican enthusiasm which biased pollsters usually do.

Cheap talk - let's see what you have to say on Wednesday...

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Maximum Bob has already ensured Heads have rolled; the current count is 35...just waiting for the Great Orange Inmate's turn.  The Federal Penitentiary in California will soon be called "Trump Tower West"...or "Mara Lockup"

Here's some free advice. Relax. Don't be fooled by your own hyperbole or petty smartypants witticisms.

Discarding any pie in the sky "Russian interference", the mid-terms usually mean bad news for the party in power.

However, with one party running on ideas and the other running on resistance, smart money's on the party of ideas and economic growth with which the majority of Americans agree.

That blue wave may prove to be the proverbial pollster's delusion. I wouldn't discount high-pitched Republican enthusiasm which biased pollsters usually do.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Nationalists push terms like ‘globalist’ to describe those organizations, claiming some sinister others outside want to harm their country.

Nationalism has been the default way societies organized themselves for centuries.

The word "globalisation", "globalist" is a very modern invention. I doubt you would have hear the word used until the last couple decades.

I don't fear the world nationalist until it becomes an excuse for invading other nations on the grounds of superiority or the desire to take territory.

It is perfectly possibly to be both a nationalist and pursue peace.

It is also possible to be nationalist and cooperate internationally when the need arises on something like climate change for example where impacts are genuinely global.

On matters of domestic political organization, how the economy is structured, law and order, language, culture, national defense, it makes a lot of sense to take a nationalist approach.

The E.U has demonstrated how incredibly hard it is for the concept of globalization to truly work and that's among a group of nations with several millennia of social and economic ties.

I personally think globalization has its limits and effort should be focused on matters of global impact - climate change, biodiversity etc. Mostly environmental matters and things like nuclear treaties where even though nuclear missiles are under the control of various national governments, the consequences of misuse are so profound that a global approach to that is also needed.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Raw Beer: You seemed to have missed the intelligence agencies' take.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@PTownsend,

You seem to have missed the part about the leaked document that Clinton's side considered her top vulnerability to be her ties to the Russian government. And it is in response to this that they decided to counter with the Trump-Putin nonsense that has blanketed all of western media.

The MSM (AKA fake news) clearly wanted Clinton to win, and they were (and still are) willing to push anything Clinton's camp asked them to.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Russia, Russia, Russia! What a farce.

What a scandal....

Wasn't that one of those despicable and disgraced senior FBI counter-intelligence officials who texted, "There is no there, there."

Uh, that's sounds like Rumsfeld....

This entire matter only became an issue because Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump!

It became an issue because it is true....

In an electoral college landslide of 304 to 227, Clinton lost because she was so overconfident she did not campaign in battleground states "reliably" blue.

With a lot of help from Putin...

Foreign intervention in another country's elections is nothing new. The USA, the number one culprit, did it 81 times according to a study, the latest in 2016 when during the administration of President Barack Obama, the U.S. State Department sent $350,000 to an Israeli organization, OneVoice, which used the funds to try to oust Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Hardly a government sponsored attack...which was what Russia did (and still does). 

Russia or the USSR, 2nd place in the study, did it 36 times.

More like 36 X 36.....

So everyone just relax. The key to victory in the mid-terms is voter turnout. Russia is not and has never been a factor, wherever its interests may lie.

"Lie" being the operative word here....

And President Trump is not anyone's puppet, especially not Putin's.

OK, you use puppet, I use poodle....

The $30 million and counting wasted on Mueller is a witch hunt about to be shut down. After the mid-terms, heads will roll.

Maximum Bob has already ensured Heads have rolled; the current count is 35...just waiting for the Great Orange Inmate's turn.   The Federal Penitentiary in California will soon be called "Trump Tower West"...or "Mara Lockup"

  https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Why it's still in Russia's interest to mess with U.S. politics - Headline

Russia, Russia, Russia! What a farce.

Wasn't that one of those despicable and disgraced senior FBI counter-intelligence officials who texted, "There is no there, there."

This entire matter only became an issue because Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump!

In an electoral college landslide of 304 to 227, Clinton lost because she was so overconfident she did not campaign in battleground states "reliably" blue.

Foreign intervention in another country's elections is nothing new. The USA, the number one culprit, did it 81 times according to a study, the latest in 2016 when during the administration of President Barack Obama, the U.S. State Department sent $350,000 to an Israeli organization, OneVoice, which used the funds to try to oust Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Russia or the USSR, 2nd place in the study, did it 36 times.

So everyone just relax. The key to victory in the mid-terms is voter turnout. Russia is not and has never been a factor, wherever its interests may lie.

And President Trump is not anyone's puppet, especially not Putin's. The $30 million and counting wasted on Mueller is a witch hunt about to be shut down. After the mid-terms, heads will roll.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Putin/Trump, Medvedev/Obama........Funny how the Libs never bring it up.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

The Comrades are out in force today...

Of course Putin interfered in our election - 17 US intelligence agencies and numerous from overseas confirmed it.

Putin knows 1) all of Trump's financial transactions with Russian oligarchs, and 2) that Trump is an incompetent idiot.

Since 2000, Putin has used the US and the West as his scapegoat -  to tell the Russian people that they are to blame for their economy being less than the size of California, New York or Texas (all individually have greater GDP than Russia).  All the while he and his cronies steal the Treasury blind. 

He is a Soviet apparatchik that has delusions of making Russia Great Again (sound familiar?).  Electing Trump has created chaos in the US and internationally - all the more the better for Russia to invade another neighbor, murder a few more spies, dissidents or political opponents, and increase its influence in the Middle East and Africa. 

And he'll continue to do it until someone pokes a finger in his chest and tells him to knock it off.  Sellout Donnie will never do that....

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@serrano Considering the other choice, Hillary "No-fly zone in Syria" Clinton, less chance of a nuclear war... oh my..

Still pushing Russian propaganda? I guess that's to be expected from people who say their fellow Americans with different political beliefs are the enemy, from people who feel more closely aligned with Putin's politics than they do with half of their fellow American's.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

"Why would they want Trump as president?"

Considering the other choice, Hillary "No-fly zone in Syria" Clinton, less chance of a nuclear war... oh my...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/25/hillary-clinton-syria-no-fly-zones-russia-us-war

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

"Russia is not responsible for all of America's problems."

No, the Democrats are responsible for most of them.

What does Edward Snowden have to say about all this? We never hear about him anymore. Also Mueller? Mueller? Mueller?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Please , please....this is getting SO SILLY !

When did the Russians start controlling the outcome of elections in America?

Anyone care to give a date? How about a president?

Did they elect Obama? The would have had to have a working system set up to thwart Hillary?

Why would they want a Trump as president? Does anyone have an answer to that?

Hillary thought she could run for president with no opposing Democrats like Obama did.

She lost because foolish young millennials ignored the only adult in the room that told them Hillary was the best qualified. The children didn’t listen and they got distracted with Bernie Sanders. The foolish millennials cost the American Socialist/Communist cause over 50 years of progress. The childish and selfish millennials cost the USA 2 Supreme Court seats.

The Russians didn’t do anything. They didn’t need to do anything. they had an army of fat, smug green haired clowns to cause more damage to the progress the the responsible Americans have made. Now abortion is at risk. The millennials cry and bite their nails because they are scared of the future. They destroyed it by ignoring the instructions that Obama gave them!

He told them for over a year. Vote for Hillary ! But they wouldn’t listen. They chose an-aged hippy from Vermont with no experience outside of one of the most non productive states in America over a woman with experience as a Senator and as Secretary of State !

Stop blaming Russia for the stupid mistakes of millennials !!

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Trump is a symptom of the sickness and lies permeating American society.

Putin (and all who do his bidding) are those who keep stirring the pot and let it simmer.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The U.S. propaganda apparatus designed a perfect weapon - "Putin's meddling". Whatever happens, blame Putin. Lost an election? Blame Putin and his hackers! Gas prices are too high? Blame Putin! Your wife caught you cheating on her? Well, you know what to do!

It requires moral courage to admit a simple fact: most (if not all) America's problems are the result of negligence and stupidity of its political class, not some nefarious machinations of foreign (Russian, Chinese, Iranian etc) hackers. If you want to cure from alcoholism the first order of the business is to admit frankly that only you are to blame for the problem, not the bar where you are the favourite customer or the maker of your whisky. But many people still unable to admit that Trump as a president is not a result of a brilliant Russian spy plot, but a manifestation of a deep problem: serious disillusionment of millions of Americans with the current system. Putin may be is flattered with the God-like abilities U.S. propaganda credits him with, however reality is more mundane.

I've written it once, I repeat it again: dear Americans, don't make your great conuntry a laughing stock, Calm down, get a clear head and don't blame others for the problems of your own making.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

It should be obvious that all kinds of media manipulation is going on, everything from who owns and controls the media to paid trolls and bots. This is on top of commercial manipulation and distraction with sports and entertainment. I can't read the news without being hit with advertising that understands my current material wants better than my own wife does. This is 1984/Brave New World.

Is Russian meddling in the US (and UK) undemocratic? Yes of course it is. Do the US and UK have a history of doing it in other countries? Yes. I would even challenge people to name any Latin American country where the US hasn't meddled. Lots of wrongs don't make a right, but they do mean that it is foolish to focus on single instances as you will lose sight of the big picture. Russia paying Facebook trolls or RT to promote a certain message has to be seen in light of the Rupert Murdoch, GE, and all the others pumping out distorted messages on their mainstream outlets. In the case of RT, there is more good journalism on there than there is on Fox News.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@rawbee Oh this Russian meddling nonsense is really getting tiring.

To whom is it really getting tiring? To Trump supporters? To Russians? If individuals are tired of this story, they don't have to follow the accounts in the news. But maybe having choices is befuddling to those from totalitarian states where the government controls the media.

I think it's wrong for ANY nation to 'meddle' in other nation's politics. I'm not tired of the investigations; I have the patience to wait to see what's eventually learnt.

On another note, during the time I've followed JT, only one individual has identified himself as Russian. And he almost always posts on Japan related topics, rarely international. There are thousands of Russians living in Japan. Russians are said to be extremely nationalistic; why would those here not want to be identified as Russian.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Chip Star. I think this statement would be applicable regardless of who won the 2016 election. Therefore I do not think this specifically applies to Trump

Fair enough. I would say that Trump was the most divisive figure running for the GOP nomination, so Russia gained more in helping him get elected insofar as stoking the division within the US.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Chip Star. I think this statement would be applicable regardless of who won the 2016 election. Therefore I do not think this specifically applies to Trump.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The only thing Russia would have to gain by engaging in this activity has little to do with Trump but I believe more to do with capitalizing on an opportunity to further divide the U.S. population and thus weakening the U.S. as a nation.

You answered your own question.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

There are a number of things that Russia gets by having the US Congress split between both parties. Getting them to agree on new laws and actions that matter to the world is next to impossible with the distrust on both sides.

And there are probably other govts that prefer when the US Govt decisions are slower. And at least 1 American citizen who prefers that too. Me.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Oh this Russian meddling nonsense is really getting tiring.

It’s unfortunate that few people are aware of how it all started; we can thank the fake news channels for that.

A leaked June 2015 internal document from the Clinton campaign regarding an internal poll mentioned:

“Secretary Clinton’s Top Vulnerability as tested in this poll is the attack that claims as Secretary of State she signed off on a deal that gave the Russian government control over 20% of America’s uranium production, after investors in the deal donated over 140 million dollars to the Clinton Foundation. Half of all likely voters (53%) are less likely to support Clinton after hearing that statement, and 17% are much less likely to support her after hearing that statement.”

A leaked December 2015 Email from Podesta mentioned:

“Best approach is to slaughter Donald for his bromance with Putin, but not go too far betting on Putin re Syria.”

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

On PBS Frontline this week was a 2-part documentary about how Facebook has been abused for political gains around the world. They interviewed people involved with setting up both positive and negative websites for different political regemes around the world, then using a mass of fake Facebook profiles to make those pages popular. The people said that Americans are interested in their politicians and click on those pages A LOT. Put a few ads on those pages and get paid to host them.

These are the full length, Official PBS Frontline versions:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T48KFiHwexM

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuA4qxPbpQE

Part 2 has the Russian parts.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

You think Reagan would be pushed around by Putin like this?

Because of the Iran contra affair, the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of US and French military in Lebanon, union busting and other rightist actions I have a generally low regard for Reagan.

In Reagan's defense, though, he at least showed a modicum of decency as a human being, in sharp contrast with Trump.

It's highly unlikely Reagan would have ever been associated with porn stars and prostitutes, and have been alleged to have laundered money for Russian gangsters.

Unlike Trump, Reagan was able to speak English above the level of a 9 year old.

Reagan and Trump, both Republicans. Both spent lots of time away from the WH. Both loved living like royals on the public's dole. Those are the closest similarities I see.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I guess I am still trying to figure out what Russia gained by Trump being elected and why was it in their interest to have Trump elected?

The only thing Russia would have to gain by engaging in this activity has little to do with Trump but I believe more to do with capitalizing on an opportunity to further divide the U.S. population and thus weakening the U.S. as a nation.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

First, you must disassociate Putin from Russia on this issue - this blatant offensive cyber interference was and is directed by Putin, who cares nothing for the Russian people.  He and his oligarch cronies steal from the Treasury and leave the average Russian with nothing.  Putin can't steal more money because of the sanctions placed on him and his cronies, so getting rid of the sanctions is his No 1 goal.

In addition, Putin interferes because he sees it in his interest.  Russia may be militarily strong but its economy is weaker (total GDP) than California.  You can't be a major superpower  with an economy that weak, no matter how many weapons you have.  So to move forward on his plan to "Make Russia Great Again", and influential in the world, he must sow confusion and mayhem in the West, and if he can help elect right wing leaders that share his view on race, religion, immigration, a free press, etc., all so much the better. 

He'll continue to do it - unless Europe comes together and makes it clear to him that sanctions will become permanent unless he stops.  Trump, who is Putin's Poodle, has already make it clear he isn't going to do anything about it - and the Russian Republican Party hasn't the spine to do anything either. 

You think Reagan would be pushed around by Putin like this?

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Yes I do !

Hillary made a HUGE tactical mistake when she stopped campaigning in the Mystery Machine van. Bernie capitalized on the grevious error and caused her great distraction. If she had stuck with Scooby-Doo she would have beaten Trump.

She was destroyed by the short attention span of millennials and their fixation with Scooby-Doo.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Makes you wonder why this garbage is constantly regurgitated & peddled doesn't it ?

I mean you'd have to be seriously mind trucked to believe the one sidedness of it

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Don’t blame Russia for millions of millennials who ignored the advice of Obama and voted for Bernie.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

 fail to see how a confrontational attitude by Russia towards the West actually helps them long term

Russians know how much division there is within 'western' democracies. After all, they’re democracies where all opinions are allowed. Unlike totalitarian states like Russia, China, Turkey, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran and others led by despots who restrict opposition.

Russia's trying to fan flames pushing nationalist sentiments in ‘western’ countries. Nationalists typically oppose organizations seen by them as limiting in any way their nation. 

Nationalists push terms like ‘globalist’ to describe those organizations, claiming some sinister others outside want to harm their country.

Russia knows that nations co-operating together in organizations are stronger collectively. Russia knows those nations are weaker functioning separately. Russia knows weaker nations are easier to exploit. Russia uses its troll armies to push nationalism.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The Kremlin likes Trump 

That's been clear since before the 2016 elections when members of Trump's family and several of his other employees met, perhaps illegally, with Russian officials.

It will be good when Mueller's investigations have finished and the world can find out if Russians paid cash under the table for Trump's condominiums, if the Trump syndicate laundered money for Russian oligarchs, among other allegations.

It will also be interesting to see how soon after Trump leaves office we'll see Trump properties somewhere in the Russian Federation.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

I fail to see how a confrontational attitude by Russia towards the West actually helps them long term. What do they get out of it? Putin gets re-elected and maybe China is happy, but i think they could have good relations with the West and still maintain good relations with China. I think they can play that middle ground. They are strong enough to do so. Economically and therefore in the interests of average Russians a better relationship with the West is helpful. How could it be a bad thing? Hard to overcome 70 years of propaganda I guesst and realign thinking..

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The Kremlin can be proud of their stupidity but in the long run it costs them credibility, respect, and most of all trust on the world stage. They're too corrupt to Russians in their own country, and are only trying to spread that corruption around the world (why are they so buddy buddy with China, Iran, and Syria etc? Corrupt buddies). And you know what I've said about corruption... It doesn't end well for anyone.

It will fail the people and the state.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

"Yes, we are a Russian site. We talk to Americans about America. But is that forbidden?

This guy at least he admits to being part of the pondscum world of paid trolls, which is more honest than most others in his field. Paid troll is probably the lowest type of job for both educated and poorly educated individuals.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

The US does regime change by killing people with machine guns and bombs.

And so does Russia.

Russia does regime change by tapping a few keys on a keyboard, not a shot fired, not an ounce of blood spilled.

And so does the US.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The US does regime change by killing people with machine guns and bombs.

Russia does regime change by tapping a few keys on a keyboard, not a shot fired, not an ounce of blood spilled.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Notice there was no mention of Hillary meddling in Russian elections as a reason for Russia's meddling. That's because Hillary criticized the Russian elections AFTER the elections occurred.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

The only thing that will even slow down the Russians and their meddling is an overwhelming response in the former of counter cyber attacks and biting sanctions. Too bad Putin's boy Trump doesn't have the cojones to tackle Russia in any serious manner.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

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