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WikiLeaks founder turns to Switzerland for help

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Supporters say Julian Assange is considering seeking asylum in Switzerland. He told a Spanish newspaper that he faced “hundreds of death threats,” including some targeting his lawyers and children, aside from the pressure he is getting from prosecutors in the U.S. and other countries.

You'd think this guy wrote a novel or drew a cartoon of a guy in a turban or something!!

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Off the irony meter - - big bad cyber-warrior Assange now seeks refuge in a country with possible the strictest privacy standards in the world, one whose banks have for decades kept knowledge of the fortunes of third world kleptocrats from the people they screwed.

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but the United States has not lodged any charges against him. Nor has Britain

Because they can't. They would have to hold the newspapers accountable also.

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Way to go Assange.Move away from the vampires.If Swizz does not accept you,move on to Nigeria Or Libya.you will be safe there

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it is only a matter of time...mess with the big boys and you will get caught!

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TR

yes, true. Also ironic that he can't seek freedom in the land of the free because that turns out to be a complete lie.

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Also ironic that he can't seek freedom in the land of the free because that turns out to be a complete lie.

Freedom includes the right to endanger the lives of innocent people? Assange admits these releases result in the deaths of others. Your blind anti-Americanism retards your ability to think logically...

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Obviously Assange doesn't believe in openness as much as his supporters claim. If he is so open then where is he. Openness will show the world where right and wrong are divided. Let the sacrificial lamb come out of hiding and just show the world how open he is. Lead by example like they say Jesus Christ did. If he can't do this I'd say is just one big chicken afraid of his own shadow. Or that he knows that his actions were wrong and is out to save himself despite advocating that others be open. A true hero of liberal thinking everywhere.

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Assange admits these releases result in the deaths of others.

Then I guess he admits to being an accessory to murder. That charge should trump his rape one.

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mikehuntez; are you posting for the comedy effect? Tee Hee!

The elite and those in high positions hsould learn to act with a bit more civility. This is a witch hunt. McCarthy would be proud.

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That charge should trump his rape one.

He has not been charged with rape. He has been charged with sexual offenses which legally exist only in Sweden.

someone who is on the run from the law

He is not on the run from the law. The British police know exactly where he is.

the “enormous damage” the disclosures have done to the country and to its relationship with its allies.

Enormous damage? Examples please. Showing the world that the State Department staff is actually pretty good at their jobs is damaging how? Showing that things are actually as screwed-up as they appear is damaging how? Endangering the lives of "innocent" people I guess. But if they were innocent why are they in the position to be endangered in the first place?

The over-the-top hysteria may just be over-the- top hysteria, or they might be more going on. We will see when the banking files come out. if it all hits the fan, we will know why they tried so hard to stop him.

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TR

Uh Americans killed how many innocent Iraqis? In your name no less. Good, so you agree the land of the free is a lie then.

Wikileaks is the cure to your hateful life, and it will continue to purge it away as you answer for every claim against the USA? C'mon now, you can't be that much of an apologist can you?

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Check out the Guardian interview with him at their website

compared to the rhetoric around him, he seems to answer a lot more questions that cut through the Fog of America so desperate to keep lionizing him.

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stevepfc: mikehuntez; are you posting for the comedy effect? Tee Hee!

Why yes I am. I love to mock the liberal thinkers. But my previous statement about an accessory to murder is no joke. That's because of the right wing extremist as you think I am.

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mikehuntez: "You'd think this guy wrote a novel or drew a cartoon of a guy in a turban or something!!"

Actually, you make a good point. People are complaining about Chinese censorship or death threats when people draw pictures of the Prophet Mohammed, but here you have the so-called Democracies engaging in the exact same thing, proving they are no better.

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If the US is up to any good. I don't think they should even worry or bother about Assange. The truth always prevail. And I thought the so called "land of the free" should be in support of such. We have had enough of lies that has led to thousands of thousands of innocent lives lost and hey, the world can't take it anymore.

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he's gonna get the wrong person hurt... that's something you must be careful about... seems he's got leaks on Mobs. I haven't really looked at any of them, but there are blogs going around saying things like WMD's were indeed found in Iraq, terror cash connections via Saudi Arabia, certain things on Obama and of course the banks... basically, things we have assumed all along but aren't dumb enough for announce them. I think he needs a lesson in "No Snitching"

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but here you have the so-called Democracies engaging in the exact same thing, proving they are no better." Let's face it, I can deal with the embarrassing things, but military secretes like positions, names of translators (a big f up), addresses of people... I'm not down with that. The reason many American companies and media are not airing his stuff is due media rules on the battle field. Heck, they even censured Geraldo Rivera and he's the most important journalist/commentator our Country has ever produced.

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MIkehuntez-

Assange is not hiding.According to his lawyer,when he arrived in london ,he immediately gave his contacts to the British police.

U think,the CIA doesn't know where he is? The British shd award him the Knight of London,the Japanese shd award him the Grand order of the Rising Sun;the USA shd have Freedom day in his Honor;the Africans shd make him the Leader of AU and the Chinese shd make him their secret agent.

Go Assange

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Go Assange" Yeah, well, just to stand near me. Someone's gonna pop him bad and I don't want to be around to watch

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Assange and WikiLeaks have never been sworn to secrecy. If anyone has put lives in danger--a hyperbolic assertion which remains to be shown--it is the individual or individuals who provide the information for publication.

Once a secret is known, it is--by definition--no longer a secret. Of course the US is quite anxious that people not cast light on matters which in the view of the government may compromise its ability to act. This is true of all governments--China and Iran included.

Had Assange published Chinese or Iranian documents, I doubt that the US and its willing or unwilling allies would be quite so vocal in condemnation. Might they not even seize upon such information to further condemn the governments of these countries? I think it is almost a certainty that they would do so, however guardedly.

When a government of the people, by the people and for the people has risen to the position of the most powerful and most active military in the world, it matters not whether it is a king making decisions or a self-perpetuating democratic Leviathan.

As for the sexual misconduct charges against Assange, he may well be guilty of something. But even the most clueless would have to admit that the timing is highly suspect. In a he-said, she-said scenario it doesn't take a lot of imagination to conceive that it would cost a multi-trillion dollar debtor very little to suborn allegations of wrongdoing against Assange.

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We'll see just how far he goes then bigmouth. You could be right. He may become leader of the free world. I expect liberal America to allow him to oust Arnold as Gov of California.

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yeah you haven't read any of them, because that would be reality. Best to stick to wing nut bloggers

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Had Assange published Chinese or Iranian documents" I bet he's way too chicken to do that.

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oh no, look out. the americans have branded him a terrorist. any one or any organization that decides to have any link to him will be actively hunted, pursued and bombed or taken over by the states. the mighty arm(s), no pun intended, have flexed their muscles once again, even though it was one of their own that leaked the cables

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even though it was one of their own that leaked the cables" that dude should not have even had that access. Either case, he's under UCMJ and he's gonna get fried. Who branded him a terrorist? is that official?

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yeah you haven't read any of them, because that would be reality. Best to stick to wing nut bloggers" R u directing to me? hey, i can't find them and I have not taken a position on it. I'm just saying he's gonna expose the wrong person.

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So far, I have seen nothing in the Wikileaks documents that a rational, informed person would not have expected.

Of course it is a scandal that a superpower is not able to protect its diplomatic communication.

But on the other hand, the truth shall set us free...

By the way, it is also interesting what we have NOT seen in the Wikileaks, namely any hint of a smidgen of an indicator that there could be one iota of truth in the "truther" 9/11 conspiracies. The truthers must be roally upset.

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no, that happens if he's killed. There's a Cable Gate software he's given to news agencies around the world that's locked. If he dies the password is sent out. That's meant to keep him safe. Doesn't seem to be working but this current batch is nothing. Then maybe perhaps those who seek him harm with themselves have in effect exposed the wrong person themselves, not Assange.

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besides, he's just a chief editor. the data comes from whistle blowers, his group just collects it.

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As for the sexual misconduct charges against Assange, he may well be guilty of something. But even the most clueless would have to admit that the timing is highly suspect. In a he-said, she-said scenario it doesn't take a lot of imagination to conceive that it would cost a multi-trillion dollar debtor very little to suborn allegations of wrongdoing against Assange.

So much willful denial on the topic. The Swedish woman who brought charges against Assange is as far to the political Left as her heart throb Assange.

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(edit above: remove duplicate 'themselves' and make that 'will themselves' not with)

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Assanges latest press release " hey guys ,I was just kidding...April fools!"

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But if they were innocent why are they in the position to be endangered in the first place?

Aiding the U.S in any way merits death in the eyes of the terrorist elements in the middle east. Many of the people named in the documents may have been little more than a farmer that gave troops directions but that hardly matters, now they've been outted because Wikileaks doesn't think about the implications of their document releases.

I don't have a problem with information being released but the names in documents reguarding foreign informants should have been removed as well as the names of servicemen.

The recent document leak was more a confirmation of what most people suspected anyway, especially the U.S being involved in Pakistan and Yemen. At the end of the day I welcome information leaks so long as they're done in a responcible manner.

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TR

get some help. but maybe the doctors are lefties too, so you've ignored them? hmm?

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He's starting to use the Royal "We" now.

He will surely be on the wrong side of dirty ops now.

The information or release of information or non-release of specific information have become bargaining chips. You can see a reverse example in the article above, threatening the Swiss govt.

If he has threatened the US with the release of really explosive stuff and demanded money, then that might explain why they need to shut him down so quickly. Both sides may be in a race for time. (?)

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"[Assange] just a chief editor. the data comes from whistle blowers, his group just collects it."

He also collates the data and writes the code needed to distribute what he chooses to publish.

This is hardly the noble little Truth for Truth's sake crusade your man-crush leads you to believe it is...

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TR

He also collates the data and writes the code needed to distribute what he chooses to publish.

like I said, he's an editor. That's what editors do. There are others behind the scenes doing the technical work. This is not a one man operation.

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he bundles it up for distribution. Other editors just edit files. It's all the same

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theQuestion

Many of the people named in the documents may have been little more than a farmer that gave troops directions but that hardly matters, now they've been outted because Wikileaks doesn't think about the implications of their document releases.

yet from the Guardian interview, he notes how editors redact a lot of names and such already. It's online. How about you go find yourself an Afghani farmer name. Prove it.

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This is not a one man operation.

No shinola, Sherlock. Next you're gonna work out that maybe, just maybe, those involved - since they are taking such heroic risks - have decided that accepting cold hard cash for their efforts is not something that is below them...

So the question becomes - - do you agree we are also entitled to know who is funding wikileaks ?

I suspect this is where the anti-American crowd and the sentimental far Left's claims about the sanctity of "truth" are suddenly and shamelessly retracted...

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skipthesong: "Let's face it, I can deal with the embarrassing things, but military secretes like positions, names of translators (a big f up), addresses of people... I'm not down with that"

Has he given up military positions? As far as I know he's just given up details of meetings and things leaders said that embarrass them in the extreme. Even so, are you saying it's okay to limit freedom of speech under some condition, but not others? This harkens back to bush declaring censorship on pictures of US soldiers' coffins (while it was okay to air bloody Iraqi corpses). You're either for it, or against, and if you're against you're no better than nations like China.

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Julian Assange, in his own words last August, discussing how his leaks changed the course of the election in Kenya:

"1,300 people were eventually killed, and 350,000 were displaced. That was a result of our leak..."

Carole Cadwalladr The Observer, Sunday 1 August 2010 Article history
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Aiding the U.S in any way merits death in the eyes of the terrorist elements in the middle east.

In that case somebody should have thought of that before invading Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place. Not a recipe for success.

The "innocent" lives were put in danger by the decision to invade, and nobody cared much about it at the time. Whether WikiLeaks released the information in a responsible manner is a legitimate question. But to go and start wars and then complain that some other group is putting people in danger, is nonsensical and hypocritical. WikiLeaks is not responsible for the lives being in danger, they are danger due to the decisions of the US government. That should be obvious even to people who support the decisions.

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Ironic that a U.S. Senator is accusing Assange of being a terrorist. If releasing the truth provokes terror in the Senator then perhaps he should meditate on the words of Thomas Jefferson, "Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.".

Even more ironic is that webproviders are abandoning Wikileaks not for legal or ethical reasons, but because "cyber attacks threatened the rest of its network". In other words they're the target of real "cyber-terrorists" and there should be little or no doubt in anyone's mind that these illegal and unethical cyber-attacks are being orchestrated by the very people who this information embarrasses, the world governments like the U.S. and China.

The simple fact is that whether Wikileaks stands or falls is beside the point. The next generation of Wikileaks will learn from this and there will be no central figure like Assange to attack and try and discredit, no "flagship" website to target (probably a more dispersed model like seti@home uses), etc.

I consider this singular idiocy the biggest proof that politicians are organising these attacks, because they fail to grasp that this case won't squash this sort of activity, it'll just encourage it, and their attacks won't damage this sort of website, they'll just build a better model. This sort of reactive, headline-grabbing and frankly useless action is so typical of politicians that it's pretty much proof.

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This harkens back to bush declaring censorship on pictures of US soldiers' coffins (while it was okay to air bloody Iraqi corpses).

Only in your George Bush-obsessed imagination. Bush never declared "censorship" of such photos. It was Pentagon policy going back to 1991. Bush is gone. You may miss him, but he's gone...

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TR

It's the lefties, they're everywhere, even now in this very room. They're coming TR...

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Frungy

he decided to be a lightening rod of hate so that it helps the team work on more leaks rather than deal with attacks to themselves. There was also a question of who speaks for them and so on. It's in the Guardian interview.

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Simple question for Assange's defenders

Are we also entitled to know who is funding wikileaks?

Don't be shy. You are all brave lovers of truth, no?

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"1,300 people were eventually killed, and 350,000 were displaced. That was a result of our leak..."

Can you imagine Obama or Bush stepping up to the plate and admitting that all the needless civilian deaths were the result of the U.S. invasions? Neither can I.

Of course, the statement pretty much ignores the fact that Kenya is famous for that sort of election violence. Its also a statement that the truth about corruption is dangerous. So what is your suggestion? Just pretend that assassinations are not happening? Just quietly let them run their course? One has to wonder TR, why do you hate the principles of the American Founding Fathers so much?

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Are we also entitled to know who is funding wikileaks?

Simple answer: no. They were not elected by you. They are not your employees. They are not your government. They do not have transparency laws.

Of course I would support that information being available if it were not for threats and attacks. Wikileaks has had to set up their own witness protection program. Of course you would love for them to paint targets on their back. Not going to happen.

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including some targeting his lawyers and children, This guy has children? Hmm...I just assumed he as a very irritated gay dude, kind of like that one flight attendant that went ape shit on a US airliner the other day.

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In that case somebody should have thought of that before invading Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place. Not a recipe for success.

Ah yes, its not the terrorists fault that they're brutal murderers. Its the fault of the horrible informant for trying to subvert their authority, he made them threaten his life.

Whether WikiLeaks released the information in a responsible manner is a legitimate question. But to go and start wars and then complain that some other group is putting people in danger, is nonsensical and hypocritical. WikiLeaks is not responsible for the lives being in danger, they are danger due to the decisions of the US government.

So nobody can be criticized because the U.S government is worse? If you start judging the legitimacy of a complaint based on how it sizes up to other events than every atrocity committed after WWII 'wasn't really that bad'. No, you judge every action on a case by case basis or use other events as a reference but you don't delegitimize it because it's less than another. The leaks, in the way they were conducted at least, were irresponsible. The war in Afghanistan is a discussion for another thread.

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but TR, the lefties....

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TimRussert at 12:56 PM JST - 6th December Julian Assange, in his own words last August, discussing how his leaks changed the course of the election in Kenya: "1,300 people were eventually killed, and 350,000 were displaced. That was a result of our leak..."

... and your point is TimRussert? 1300 people killed may sound like a lot, but the information prevented corrupt politicians from being elected. Consider for a moment the number of deaths that a single corrupt politician could cause in just one year. Not enough medicine at the hospitals, deaths because of road repairs not made, deaths from exposure because of lack of housing...

It would be more accurate to try and count the number of deaths prevented. Kenya loses as much as 33% of the national budget every year to corruption, that's $4 billion a year (source:BBC - Kevin Mwachiro - 3rd Dec 2010) or "the average urban Kenyan pays 16 bribes to both public and private institutions in a month. Public servants […receive] by far the most bribes, accounting for 99% of the bribery transactions, and 97% of the value". This amounts to a cost of just under Ksh 8,000 a month per respondent (compared to an average income of Ksh. 26,000 per month per respondent) (source: Transparency International-Kenya's Urban Bribery Index of 2001). This means that you can't get a birth certificate, service in a hospital, a driver's license, or virtually any service from government employees without a bribe. Think about that for a moment and you'll realise that for those living on the bottom ranks of society who can't afford a bribe this means they either live without those services... or more likely die without them.

If you don't think that corruption is costing lives then you're mistaken.

Also your post reveals a stunning contempt for democracy. How can you possibly justify withholding vital information on corrupt politicians from voters? Assange didn't cause those deaths, the backlash from the information being withheld did. If the information had been made freely available in the first place, like it should have been, then there might have been no backlash at all. You're basically trying to shift the blame from the person who planted the mine to the person who stepped on it, and that's just daft

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TimRussert at 01:19 PM JST - 6th December Simple question for Assange's defenders Are we also entitled to know who is funding wikileaks? Don't be shy. You are all brave lovers of truth, no?

Read the article. Funds are raised from the general public. It was via a pay-pal account, but that avenue has been closed down so now he's using a bank account.

Millions of small donations from concerned citizens all over the world. It's pretty much the closest you get to a global democracy. If people don't like what he's doing they don't donate. If they do then they support.

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"Can you imagine Obama or Bush stepping up to the plate and admitting that all the needless civilian deaths were the result of the U.S. invasions? Neither can I."

No, because unlike hottomale and smithinjapan I do not think about Bush constantly.

They "stepped up" when they declared their intention to run for president. And they both have had to answer to the American public. I am sure you have been told this before but the president cannot unilaterally take the country to war.

Who does Assange answer to?

Of course, the statement pretty much ignores the fact that Kenya is famous for that sort of election violence.

And what, no violence in Iraq and Afghanistan?

One has to wonder, hottomales, why you hold blacks in Kenya in such racist disdain.

Assange admits his leaks directly led to the deaths of over a thousand innocents in Kenya. Have a look at the interview. The reporter conducting it wonders if your hero isn't a touch autistic.Me, I would say he may well be sociopath...

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Assange shd be awarded the Knight of london,The Grand Order of the Rising Sun,the de-facto president of African Union and be honored with a freedom day in The USA.

Great are thy works,Assange

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Millions of small donations from concerned citizens all over the world. It's pretty much the closest you get to a global democracy. If people don't like what he's doing they don't donate. If they do then they support.

Right on, man. The old Leftist wet dream of a "world-wide democracy" where, as hotomales basically argues, Lenin's old formula calling for the need to break a few eggs in order to make that particular omelette is alive and well.

Well then, let Assange show us who donates. Full disclosure. Prove his good faith, not to mention that of this imaginary worldwide cyber democratic movement.

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TR,

Yes ,people died but it caused a great change in the political landscape.Govt structure changed afterwards.

At times,changes dont come easily.

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TimRussert said regarding the timing of sexual misconduct charges against Assange:

So much willful denial on the topic. The Swedish woman who brought charges against Assange is as far to the political Left as her heart throb Assange.

Whether she is liberal or a conservative has no provable relationship to being susceptible to inducement to create a story line. It's hard to tell whether your argument is that like protects like, which rather flies in the face of history, or that liberals are more principled than conservatives, which--while it might be true--is as yet unproven.

Where is the denial? Do you mean there are those who willfully deny that her story is true? Or do you mean that there are those who deny that his story is true? My point is not about asserting any particular truth. It is that the charges were brought after governmental pressure began to be applied. Or does the willful denial extend to denying that this could possible have any relationship to what is happening here?

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bigmouth, repetition. That's the second time in this thread that you have said the same thing... (not that there is any such award as 'Knight of London')

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Assange shd be awarded the Knight of london,The Grand Order of the Rising Sun,the de-facto president of African Union and be honored with a freedom day in The USA.

I say let him go to Iran or Cuba. These, I constantly read, are actually really swell places, where true democracy is at work, but these places are used as "bogey men" by the US gov't, which brainwashes its entire electorate. A miniscule handful of Americans know about YouTube and the internet, but they are all progressives, in higher education most likely.

Anyways, if Assange is free to continue his work in a place like Iran - not to mention have unprotected sex with as many of the local women as his heart desires - well then the fantastically idiotic assertion that "US is China" might need re-examining. I will personally lead that effort here.

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Nanda-

What do u call that Knight award,I stand corrected.

Tim,

Its interesting how u like to twist discussions.He is doing the world a service by just pushing the frontiers of democracy.

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Yes ,people died but it caused a great change in the political landscape.Govt structure changed afterwards.

Yeah, it changed. Did it change for better, or worse? Kenya, as of 2010, is ranked 13th among failed states. Assange and his fanboys can be proud of this?

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TR,

At least,the views of the minority are now been heard.Something that could not have happened if Assange has not realeased those info.

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Whether she is liberal or a conservative has no provable relationship to being susceptible to inducement to create a story line.

"Inducement to create a story line" is an even less provable assertion, though it was thoroughly predictable...

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At least,the views of the minority are now been heard.Something that could not have happened if Assange has not realeased those info.

Who, exactly, is the minority? Do you even know what you are talking about??? Do you actually think an Australian hacker knows the first thing about Kenyan politics?

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GO Wikileaks GO! Look at all these poor Americans, their rights have been subverted so much they can't even recognize the side of good when it slaps them in the face. Land of the free? Can't even publish some cables about diplomatic backtalk without some yankee in the government asking for an assassination!

Assange, btw, isn't Wikileaks. He is the figurehead who risked it all by fronting the organization and, no matter how much of a publicity whore he is, he is sticking his neck out there for the organization. I really really hope they have a successor and let the spotlight return to the real issue.

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man,it seems u dont know abt Kenyan politics.Pls read it urself.I cant brief u on it.

He is more than a Hacker.check on the meaning of the word Hacker.He says he is the editor-in-Chief

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Look at all these poor Americans, their rights have been subverted so much they can't even recognize the side of good when it slaps them in the face.

1300 Kenyans died because of what Assange did. He admitted it. They were not Americans. They were Kenyans. They were innocent people. You are OK with this? Your cheap anti-Americanism comes first in all matters?

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TR,

So when someone does not agree to ur views,he is anti-American?Even if so,it is his/her choice.

Again,u just talking abt the bad side of the Kenyans.As I said,just read the power struggles among the various ethnic grps and decide whether the good from Assange's work overrides those who died.

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You're either for it, or against, and if you're against you're no better than nations like China." is it ok with you if I read through it and then decide? I've just found the time to glance over it but I really am suspicious about the submissions methods.

"Look at all these poor Americans, their rights have been subverted so much they can't even recognize the side of good when it slaps them in the face." Dude, did some American guy take your girl? You've got one hell of a grudge.

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TimRussert at 02:38 PM JST - 6th December Right on, man. The old Leftist wet dream of a "world-wide democracy" where, as hotomales basically argues, Lenin's old formula calling for the need to break a few eggs in order to make that particular omelette is alive and well.

I read this three times and it makes absolutely no sense. But I'll play along. I like omlettes, preferably with cheese or mushrooms, but not both, because that's just too much. Oh wait, was this perhaps an animals rights commentary on breaking eggs as cruelty? I'm really not sure.

... and a world-wide democracy sure as pudding beats the world-wide autocracy we've got at the moment with the G8 countries pretty much setting global economic policy (well, apart from Russia, which mostly just sits there muttering about the glory days and drinking vodka).

Well then, let Assange show us who donates. Full disclosure. Prove his good faith, not to mention that of this imaginary worldwide cyber democratic movement.

Why not. Send them an email asking to see total donations for WikiLeaks by country, maximum, minimum and median donations, as well as number of donations.

Of course only an idiot would ask to see the names of the people because (1) they're using pay-pal usernames to donate and I think the list would be 30% pop culture references, 1% real names and about 69% penis jokes, and (2) because it would be useless in a huge list and you'd have to be psychotic to want to go through the list of millions of donations looking for patterns, adding them up, etc.

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Wow that's quite a flame war.

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TimRussert said

"Inducement to create a story line" is an even less provable assertion, though it was thoroughly predictable...

No. It is more provable. The proof lies in the facts of the case. Either there was or there was not an inducement. Whether liberals or conservatives are more susceptible to inducement will always be a definitional proof if made at all.

I don't dispute that the woman's (women's actually, no?) charges may be true. And I don't dispute that if the women's charges are without merit that they may have been motivated by factors other than inducements. However, if you believe that the timing of the charges was merely coincidental and that the government which is jumping through hoops to stanch the flow of information is not only capable of trying to enforce silence by other means but entirely willing to do so, you have failed to grasp the essential nature of politics.

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TimRussert at 03:16 PM JST - 6th December 1300 Kenyans died because of what Assange did. He admitted it.

So Assange is guilty of delusions of influence. That's all. He released some information, some people got angry and people died, but he's not responsible for the resulting deaths.

Argue that line of logic and you'll find almost every reporter in the world guilty, and no-one will be able to write their blog for fear of upsetting someone and "making" them do something. Assange didn't release a document that contained hate speech inciting people to kill others, he released a document highlighting corruption in the Kenyan government. He may hold himself responsible, but he's no more responsible than any other journalist.

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GJDailleult

" In that case somebody should have thought of that before invading Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place. Not a recipe for success. The "innocent" lives were put in danger by the decision to invade, "

That is pure nonsense, and if you informed yourself before commenting, you would know that. The jihad against the US long precedes any Iraq or Afghan involvement, as does sectarian and political conflict in those areas.

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For those readers on JT who wishes to get a handle on what is going on w/ Wikileaks, it would be fruitful to watch the first "Mission Impossible" movie w/ Tom Cruise. The environment is similar, but the details are not accurate. Mr. Assange is releasing sensitive info. There probably is a "mole hunt" implemented in the US Govt. because it is doubtful Pfc. Manning was able to pilfer the security clearance at his rank - most likely involves higher rank(s). The system has been compromised.

Ciao.

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Just a suggestion - Mr. Assange should embed the theme song of "Mission Impossible" on Wikileaks which automatically comes on when the sight is tabbed. Don't know if there are copyright issues, though.

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TimRussert: 1300 Kenyans died because of what Assange did. He admitted it. They were not Americans. They were Kenyans. They were innocent people. You are OK with this?

Assange has no crystal ball. There was no way of knowing what would happen. Its no use acting like the info was an order for all civilians to go on a rampage. It wasn't. Since you know so much, why don't you tell us what the info was that caused that? Then tell us how you would know it would lead to violence, you know, using your 20/20 hindsight.

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WikiLeaks is designed for people to release leaked documents. WikiLeaks doesn't leak the documents. They just publish them. This is a GOOD thing even if there is some bad that comes as a result.

Government transparency is GOOD. People SHOULD be able to know what their government is doing in their name.

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Switzerland to be bombed because they are harboring terrorists? The US will have the Swiss bank affairs as a leverage to not let Assange stay as a refugee in Switzerland. That's a different cable.

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Assange ought to just go to the US.. he'd probably be treated like a king and with our weak courts, he'd probably be able to sue the gov for harrasement.

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You know, I do feel kind of sorry for that now almost-forgotten low level CIA employee, Val Plame. Once upon a time lefty wingers used to give themselves fits about leaks that supposedly compromised the safety of those involved in diplomacy and even intel (not forgetting though that Valerie was little more than a desk jockey, but a hot one!). Now we see it was all for show; it was just libs working out problems with Daddy by protesting any and every move George Bush made. And for shame it is, Val's movie came out this week, I think. Looks like Bush wins again.

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The Plame leak was orchestrated by the government itself to discredit her husband. In the Cablegate, left and right call for Assange and the web site to be silenced. Manning will face a tough trial and deserve it for the leak. Everybody want to stop the leak but it will continue. Don't newspapers have the whole database already? Ron Paul (R) praise the leaks. This demonstrate that the leaks can serve some people's interests even on the right.

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And tumble, let's not forget how the Bush supporters lauighed at that treason. Now the shoe's on the other foot they're screaming for blood. Damned hypocrites...

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There is no hypocrisy with being down on the Plame affair! Nobody has a problem with the rules of keeping agents names secret. We have a problem with government breaking their own damned rules! And both Plame and the leaks illustrate the U.S. government breaking them! Plame was not an accident. It was not done for a greater good. It was a surgical strike of pure malice against two individuals for one of them being honest!

God is my co-pilot and the Devil is my bombadier. But you seem to have the Devil working two stations the way you try to confound the issue with such malarkey.

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It was not done for a greater good.

A metaphysical concept designating anything that undercuts capitalism and the frivolous American way of life, and/or promotes the new, progressive mode of being. Any action taken with altruistic intentions in mind, regardless of its practical result or purpose, or of the misery that it may produce, is considered a contribution to The Greater Good.

Happy to help here.

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Wow sail...had only you been so vocal about Ms Plame's outing.

They just look like crocodile tears today.

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Wow sail...had only you been so vocal about Ms Plame's outing.

They just look like crocodile tears today.

I'd say they look like someone who could care less about Booooshhh anymore and is more concerned about the damage this is doing to Obama and his administration and his foreign policy instead in fighting the war on terror.

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I didn't think you'd acknowledge the brazen hypocrisy. I'd be embarassed myself in such a bright spotlight.

You know, I'm still not sure what to make of the Wikileaks fiasco, but I'm sure of one thing and that is that assange has plenty worse yet to release...

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It's on, sports fans!

Wonderboy Assange is demanding that Obama step down. Assange has leveled the accusation that Obama approved of US spying at the UN.

It is George Soros who Assange had better be afraid of.

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The Question: The leaks, in the way they were conducted at least, were irresponsible.

That's pretty much the long and the short of it. The BBC is reporting that a list has been published showing a "List of facilities 'vital to US security'". From the article, which focuses on facilities listed in the UK for obvious reasons:

"Several UK sites are listed, including cable locations, satellite sites and BAE Systems plants....In Britain, the list ranges from Cornwall to Scotland, including key satellite communications sites and the places where trans-Atlantic cables make landfall...A number of BAE Systems plants involved in joint weapons programmes with the Americans are listed, along with a marine engineering firm in Edinburgh which is said to be "critical" for nuclear powered submarines..."

There's only so far the "democracy and freedom" comments can take you. Ask George Bush. I really can't see how people can continue to buy into Assange's rhetoric when his group releases information like this. I really don't think they are the type of people some think they are.

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SezWho2: However, if you believe that the timing of the charges was merely coincidental and that the government which is jumping through hoops to stanch the flow of information is not only capable of trying to enforce silence by other means but entirely willing to do so, you have failed to grasp the essential nature of politics.

The timing?

On July 25 he releases the Afghan War diaries. The big bang whimpers. On August 20 he is accused of rape. The attention focuses on him. On November 28 he releases the US diplomatic cables. Adios rape questions.

Probably just coincidence.

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"I really can't see how people can continue to buy into Assange's rhetoric when his group releases information like this"

I must admit I thought the same myself this morning. There are secrets that need to be kept and for good bloody. Giving the terrorists information or worse, new ideas, is criminal.

I'm almost left dreading what Assange's piece de resistance might be.

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"for goog bloody reason" . Whoops

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Oh and Super, I think it's only fair to put "rape" in quotes. The allegations are uniquely Swedish.

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The worst point of these leaks are not diplomatic secrets he releases, but the personal damage he caused or will caused to innocent people who will have debris falling on their heads.

The way Wikileakis is escalating the level of secret data, soon we may expect citizens' personal info leaked as well: bank account data, tax payers info, drivers license etc... Everything that the government touches could be released under the excuse of "freedom of press".

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He didn't leak anything. He disseminates leaks. Plug the holes.

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I really can't see how people can continue to buy into Assange's rhetoric when his group releases information like this.

Some Americans really must think the rest of the world are idiots, or are idiots themselves. Do you think that everyone and their dog doesn't know what would be considered vital to US security. The list release for Canada, was a Nuclear powerplant, pipelines, a hydroeletric dam, unguarded border points and select manufactories. Anyone with a little bit of common sense could have could have made the same lists.

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He didn't leak anything. He disseminates leaks. Plug the holes.

True, if you want to be highly specific. But the site is "wikiLEAKSs" so I think Assange is going to be hoisted by his own petard.

I agree with LostinNagoya, the logical conclusion of all this is that any data the government has, or that is sent to him, including ID numbers, etc. could be considered fair game for publication.

Sure, somebody can probably get my license number, phone number, etc. if they troll hard enough, but why make it easy for them. Same applies to unguarded border points, etc.

I note that Assage isn't publishing his address at the moment....do you think he'd be upset if somebody posted it? How about the IP addys of all the mirror servers?

That's the problem with transparency - people who live in glass houses, and all that.

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Yes ,people died but it caused a great change in the political landscape.Govt structure changed afterwards. At times,changes dont come easily

I wish you would see Iraq like that too.

Again,u just talking abt the bad side of the Kenyans.As I said,just read the power struggles among the various ethnic grps and decide whether the good from Assange's work overrides those who died.

Ahhh so the left does support collateral damage. Assange will be glad to hear that.

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sailwind: designating anything that undercuts capitalism and the frivolous American way of life

Thank you for that paranoid fringe definition of the greater good. When you go home, be sure to check for commies in your closet and behind your couch. You never know.

Amazing that freedom and truth are such a threat to capitalism and the American way of life though. I was taught to believe they were pretty much the same.

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Ahhh so the left does support collateral damage. Assange will be glad to hear that.

Next you will be saying the information got up and killed those people by itself! Perhaps you might even assert that Kenya has never had a violent election before? I don't know, if you stop this nonsense, they might let your out of your padded room today?

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In the battle of good and evil one must choose sides......

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TakeNextRight at 07:24 PM JST - 6th December Switzerland to be bombed because they are harboring terrorists? The US will have the Swiss bank affairs as a leverage to not let Assange stay as a refugee in Switzerland. That's a different cable.

Evidently you're no student of history TakeNextRight, Switzerland is famous for not giving a damn, right up until someone tries to cross their borders, at which point they kick ass and chew bubble gum. Plus of course the minor problem of violating the Treaty of Vienna, which has been respected for more than 200 years and guarantees the neutrality of Switzerland.

mikehuntez at 06:02 AM JST - 7th December Someone else: Yes ,people died but it caused a great change in the political landscape.Govt structure changed afterwards. At times,changes dont come easily I wish you would see Iraq like that too.

Clearly you can't understand the difference between an invasion and a revolution, because that's the difference between Iraq and Kenya. An invasion is fundamentally undemocratic because it happens because of the will of people in another country. A revolution is democracy at its most extreme, and if significantly more people support a regime change then it generally succeeds (it can also fail or succeed on other variables like skill, supplies, etc, but so can democratic elections).

LostinNagoya at 12:01 AM JST - 7th December The worst point of these leaks are not diplomatic secrets he releases, but the personal damage he caused or will caused to innocent people who will have debris falling on their heads.

Can you please provide a concrete example of a wikileaks where they've released damaging information about an "innocent person"? I can't think of even a single one. These are candid reports and the people named stand or fall on the basis of their own words. I can't think of anything more fair.

The way Wikileakis is escalating the level of secret data, soon we may expect citizens' personal info leaked as well: bank account data, tax payers info, drivers license etc... Everything that the government touches could be released under the excuse of "freedom of press".

No LostinNagoya, you're taking this out of context and falling for the hysteria the spin doctors are spreading. Before Wikileaks was attacked it was very responsible about what it released to the public, and while a lot of it was politically damaging it was much in line with the type of stuff the mainstream media report on, corruption, scandals, etc. Wikileaks had a sound and ethical editorial policy.

Now they're under attack and the main allegation was that Wikileaks wasn't self-editing and self-censoring itself enough. What's the only way to respond to that allegation? Naturally to show that you have been in possession of a LOT more sensitive information that you didn't release. It's the only way that Wikileaks can show that normally it was just fine at being able to spot and not release highly sensitive data, and was being responsible, and that it is only releasing this information as proof that it possessed more sensitive stuff.

The U.S. govt's response is naturally to point at the more sensitive information and start spreading hysteria about what Wikileaks might have. Umm... guys, there wasn't a problem until you tried to censor Wikileaks, you created this problem by trying to shut them down.

At the end of the day if Wikileaks does release their most sensitive information then it'll be the fault of the U.S. Govt, because they're the ones who are trying to shut down Wikileaks. If the U.S. Govt just backed down this situation would normalise. Of course the U.S. Govt is really bad at admitting it has lost, and it'll take something horrific before they realise, "Hey, you know what? Life was a lot better before we started provoking the Wikileaks guys, and actually, considering the information they had, they were pretty darned reasonable about what they released before we started attacking them.".

sigh I feel badly for the people of the U.S., because a lot of innocent people will probably get dragged into this mess, and they're mostly innocent because the U.S. isn't really a democracy, because state secrecy has long since castrated the democratic process. However people in the U.S. have to realise that the U.S. is out of control, and it is actively interfering in the domestic affairs of other countries, and these people have a right to defend themselves from this interference. Wikileaks was doing this in a relatively benign fashion, and the U.S.'s response was to attack them. At the end of the day the U.S. is getting precisely what it deserves.

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Frungy: sigh I feel badly for the people of the U.S., because a lot of innocent people will probably get dragged into this mess, and they're mostly innocent because the U.S. isn't really a democracy, because state secrecy has long since castrated the democratic process.

You mentioned something about hysteria and spin doctors? :) Please tell me how releasing a list of security sites in the UK is vital to the well-being of Americans. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid...

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Good Jorb: Some Americans really must think the rest of the world are idiots, or are idiots themselves. Do you think that everyone and their dog doesn't know what would be considered vital to US security. The list release for Canada, was a Nuclear powerplant, pipelines, a hydroeletric dam, unguarded border points and select manufactories. Anyone with a little bit of common sense could have could have made the same lists.

Well then I suppose I'm an idiot for not knowing the specific locations of where trans-Altantic cables make landfall. But know we know, so another American secret is revealed to stop the lies an we are safer for it. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

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Frungy: sigh I feel badly for the people of the U.S., because a lot of innocent people will probably get dragged into this mess, and they're mostly innocent because the U.S. isn't really a democracy, because state secrecy has long since castrated the democratic process.

You mentioned something about hysteria and spin doctors? :) Please tell me how releasing a list of security sites in the UK is vital to the well-being of Americans. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

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Next you will be saying the information got up and killed those people by itself! Perhaps you might even assert that Kenya has never had a violent election before? I don't know, if you stop this nonsense, they might let your out of your padded room today?

Hottomales - a violent aftermath to elections is the norm for a lot of 3rd world nations. You just can't accept that your hero Assange admitted that his leak resulted in the death of over a thousand innocent Kenyans, and that he, a computer scientist, rationalized this by saying governments efforts to stop malaria (!) had to be stepped up. This is typical of the nihilist modern Left, wrapping itself in the cloak of "science" and waving the flag of a borderless One World. Technocrat utopians like Assange (and his fanboys) imagine this world is imminent, but that they must bring it in being - by any means possible - "collateral damage" be damned...

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TimRussert at 11:05 AM JST - 7th December Hottomales - a violent aftermath to elections is the norm for a lot of 3rd world nations. You just can't accept that your hero Assange admitted that his leak resulted in the death of over a thousand innocent Kenyans

TimRussert, just give up this ranting about how Assange admitted his leak resulted in deaths as if it was a signed confession or something. It's not, it's a casual comment and anyone with half a brain realises that the report that Assange released was just the straw that broke the camel's back. If it had been released 1 month after the election it would have been ignored. What resulted was unfortunate, but no more Assange's fault than Bob the butterfly flapping his wings in the Amazon was responsible for Katrina.

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Frungy - your hero Assange admitted his decision to release that info led directly to the deaths of innocent Kenyans. Don't poor black Africans count in your world???

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I just love that he is on the run. Too bad loser. You took your chances. Forcing others to be open but not too open yourself. With your calls for American politicians to "step down" is proof that you are not "just the messenger". You have an agenda against the big bad USA. Typical Australian loser. Are Ozzies always split 10% against Japan for whaling and 90% against America because of penis envy?

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His actions no more, "led directly to the deaths of innocent Kenyans", than a report on government corruption in the U.S. would guarantee murders in the U.S.

Assange claimed they did. He then qualified his assertion. Are you saying your boy Assange is perhaps not as astute as his fans claim? Can't exactly un-ring a bell. What is the verdict?

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TimRussert at 12:27 PM JST - 7th December Assange claimed they did. He then qualified his assertion. Are you saying your boy Assange is perhaps not as astute as his fans claim? Can't exactly un-ring a bell. What is the verdict?

Ahem Eat your words. If you go back through the posts you'll already see that I've accused Assange of being delusional in this regard. Assange is Wikileaks' PR man, nothing more. He has my respect for being willing to take the heat for Wikileaks and screen the other people working on Wikileaks from interruptions.

No-one here ever argued he was godlike or perfect, for goodness sakes he admits to 2-timing some girls (which because of a "deceit" clause in the local laws he's being charged with rape). He's human. So what? Do you actually think you have a point here? I never claimed he was perfect, so you don't. I never claimed he was infallible. You're barking up the wrong tree TimRussert.

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mikehuntez at 12:17 PM JST - 7th December I just love that he is on the run. Too bad loser. You took your chances. Forcing others to be open but not too open yourself. With your calls for American politicians to "step down" is proof that you are not "just the messenger". You have an agenda against the big bad USA. Typical Australian loser. Are Ozzies always split 10% against Japan for whaling and 90% against America because of penis envy?

Wikileaks releases U.S. documents and then Wikileaks is subjected to cyber-attacks. I'd say he has reasonable cause to suspect that the U.S. is responsible and he's peeved with them so yeah, his reaction is fairly normal, no penis envy or agenda required. If someone crashed your blog page you'd be fairly irritated, and probably the only people who read it are your mom and yourself. Wikileaks has a huge readership and it's a much bigger deal.

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Switzerland does not want to help him. Latest is that he will turn himself into British authorities.

Assange is a loser, full stop.

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TimRussert at 01:30 PM JST - 7th December Switzerland does not want to help him. Latest is that he will turn himself into British authorities. Assange is a loser, full stop.

... so complying with the law makes you a loser? Wow, I never knew. (That's sarcasm just in case you can't spot it).

Now starts the interesting bit, seeing if they can actually make anything stick. I doubt they'll be able to actually convict him of a darned thing.

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Now starts the interesting bit, seeing if they can actually make anything stick. I doubt they'll be able to actually convict him of a darned thing.

Yeah it'll be interesting. I'm really waiting to see this too. Subversion, Espionage, publishing of stolen material. I really want to see them try to make these stick. So what happens if they do stick Frungy? You attack the USA for being anti-democratic. Maybe Amnesty International whiners club will listen to you.

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mikehuntez at 08:36 PM JST - 7th December Yeah it'll be interesting. I'm really waiting to see this too. Subversion, Espionage, publishing of stolen material. I really want to see them try to make these stick.

Legal experts are divided on the subject, and I think that at the end of the day it will end up being a roll of the dice depending on what judge he gets and the personal leaning of the judge. This of course assumes that there is no political interference with the judiciary, which is far from certain given recent trends in the U.S. legal system, with military courts illegally prosecuting foreign nationals who they have less than zero jurisdiction over. Fortunately things seem to be coming right, but I'd give Assange less than a 30% chance of a fair trial if he ends up on U.S. soil. Of course that would mean that the British would have to extradite him to Sweden first, the the Swedish extradite him to the U.S., so it's far more likely that the pressure will be on just to imprison him in Sweden for 5 to 10 years until people forget about him and the subsequent extradition to the U.S. can be a lot lower profile.

So what happens if they do stick Frungy? You attack the USA for being anti-democratic. Maybe Amnesty International whiners club will listen to you.

Read back in this thread a little way and you'll find I quoted Jefferson on the importance of an informed electorate. I don't need to wait for a conviction to point out that the U.S. is undemocratic, it already is manifestly so because it keeps important information from the electorate, information that would undeniably influence the electorate's decision on who to elect. That being said, the U.S. is not alone in this situation. The released cables implicate every country from the U.K. and France to China (no surprise there) in classifying stuff that had no business being classified in the first place. It seems that the great democratic system has proven itself to be as cancerous and corrupt as the communists ever were. Not that I'm advocating a return to communism, I'm just saying that we should take a long hard look at our democracies and, as Jefferson advises, take steps to fix the problems rather than rallying behind nationalist sentiment and burying the problems to rot some more.

Of course I realise I might be a bit of an optimist here. It seems that this issue, rather than being a wake-up call that governments need a good hard slap and to be told to revise the oversight mechanisms for the classification of data, preferably with some civilian oversight (I would favour a jury-type system), people are polarising with a disturbing large number of people insisting on their right NOT to know things that might bother them and make them think. Sadly my biggest complaint about democracy will probably never be addressed, the fact that idiots also get to vote.

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Frungy: Read back in this thread a little way and you'll find I quoted Jefferson on the importance of an informed electorate.

And you think that releasing cables that outline personal opinions from diplomats of world leaders while ignoring the positive relationships expressed in other cables is a healthy way to create an informed electorate? Or do you think there are no cables that show positive relationships, people upholding the law, or public and private representations being shown as the same?

We're being "informed" through what amounts to tabloid news. Just print the dirt, sell the papers, and ignore the rest. People aren't actually reading the documents themselves to get a balanced view. In the end we're creating a misinformed electorate by withholding perspective.

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"[Obama] defended the right of people to freely access information, and said that the more freely information flows, the stronger societies become. He spoke about how access to information helps citizens to hold their governments accountable, generates new ideas, and encourages creativity. The United States' belief in that truth is what brings me here today... We stand for a single internet where all of humanity has equal access to knowledge and ideas. And we recognize that the world's information infrastructure will become what we and others make of it. This challenge may be new, but our responsibility to help ensure the free exchange of ideas goes back to the birth of our republic."

Hillary Clinton on internet freedom following Barack Obama's visit to China, January 2010. [Emphasis mine.]

"This disclosure is not just an attack on America's foreign policy interests -- it is an attack on the international community."

Hillary Clinton, November 2010.
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Perfect example of rights and freedoms from the perfect world view and how they are truly implemented/work.

IMHO, the USA dug themselves a big hole with their rights, etc amendments, good on paper but in real life ...

Got the Asbestos shorts on, shoot away.

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[...]big bad cyber-warrior Assange now seeks refuge in a country with possible the strictest privacy standards in the world,[...]

No, he is seeking refuge in a country known for harbouring sex offenders (remember Polanski). Ah, the hypocrisy...

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I have to agree with SuperLib here. That twerp also had help from media companies on what to release and what not to.

Now the American that actually gave this guy the secret government documents should be executed for treason.

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SuperLib at 02:02 AM JST - 8th December And you think that releasing cables that outline personal opinions from diplomats of world leaders while ignoring the positive relationships expressed in other cables is a healthy way to create an informed electorate? Or do you think there are no cables that show positive relationships, people upholding the law, or public and private representations being shown as the same? We're being "informed" through what amounts to tabloid news. Just print the dirt, sell the papers, and ignore the rest. People aren't actually reading the documents themselves to get a balanced view. In the end we're creating a misinformed electorate by withholding perspective.

And again superlib I think you're missing the point. You can't blame the guy who's releasing the documents for not releasing every single document. If the U.S. Govt. wants to release the other, more positive, documents then they can do that.

Oh, wait, but they don't want to release anything, even documents that they claim are positive and not sensitive. They're so obsessed with secrecy that they expect the public to just swallow wholesale that the unreleased documents are positive. Do you actually have any proof that all of them are, or maybe the Wikileaks crew didn't release them because they contain sensitive information or are so inflammatory that they viewed them as unprintable.

Bottom line SuperLib and hworta269, the current state of secrecy is so ridiculously extreme that governments across the world are asking voters to just take what they say on faith, without oversight, without checks and balances, and in the face of incontrovertible proof that behind this veil of secrecy they've been doing things that are at best distasteful, and at worst downright illegal.

Personally I prefer to separate politics and religion. Religion is about faith. Politics is about reason. Some people here don't seem to understand that.

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Switzerland does not want to help him. Latest is that he will turn himself into British authorities. Assange is a loser, full stop.

Funny thing about you right-wingers. Why, if Assange had released some damming data on Obama that brought about his downfall, and the democrats, why you would be hailing him as a HERO! Why, No convictions and no harassment of him at all would EVER occur. But, because there is a lot of dirty laundry being exposed about the American CIA (let's call it the our dirty KGB for all concerned, shall we?), then you object!! How Soviet of you--loving to be in the dark about the dirty secrets being done by your betters.

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Switzerland is a perfect place to escape any threat of charges filed against you, transferring your money to the Swiss National Bank Account to enjoy your rest of life just like a guy who involved in illegal oil dealing with Iran in the late 1970s to the 1980s-- a.k.a. Marc Rich.

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You people should get your facts straight before arguing about this.

Wikileaks was originally created as an open forum for whistleblowers to anonymously post secret documents. Assange and the Wikileaks staff are simply go-betweens who take that information, REDACT it to protect the innocent, and then post it.

Two things to know about Wikileaks cables: News organizations publish them BEFORE Wikileaks does, with appropriate redactions to protect innocent bystanders, then Wikileaks publishes the cables WITH the SAME REDACTIONS that the news organizations use.

Another interesting fact: Assange once approached the US government for recommendations on redactions and the government DECLINED to voluntarily omit the names of innocent people.

It is amazing we are even having this discussion. Thirty years ago Bob Woodward exposed watergate and everyone hailed him as a hero of journalism. Wikileaks publishes a few hundred cables (contrary to reports, they have not "dumped" all 25,000), and people want them HANGED??

If Assange published cables about senators embezzling taxpayer money, I bet you hypocrites would change your opinion real fast.

Freedom of speech and freedom of the press are what separates civilized nations from fascist regimes.

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Real easy to spread Wikileaks via torrent feeds...and there are ways to route around DNS...there is no way to stop it.

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the internet is a network that magnifies the power and potential of all others. And that's why we believe it's critical that its users are assured certain basic freedoms. Freedom of expression is first among them.

hilary clinton talking bout the internet. interesting how her opinion seems to have changed.

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If Assange published cables about senators embezzling taxpayer money, I bet you hypocrites would change your opinion real fast.

State Dept doesn't handle such issues.

Besides, if you followed US politics you'd know the shameful fact that US senators have the single best track record on picking stocks and IPOs that just happen to beat the market average - and that applies to Obama while he was still a senator as well.

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but the biggest scandal is how the us credit card companies are used as a tool to control and maintain us hegemony. need to start finding some other finance method.

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The Swiss Pirate Party is not the Swiss government or Switzerland. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Swiss government is going to grant asylum to an "alledged" rapest on the run from Swedish laws.

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I hate liberals like Frungy. Always trying to confuse with their words and sentences.

The Wikileaks guy is a traitor and I hope he gets executed when he gets expedited.

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at The Rat:

you should be more greatful. Rough men stand ready to die so that you can enjoy your freedoms. Typical spoiled liberal.

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Gooddog,

I'm sorry, what freedoms are they protecting exactly? If the military pulls out of Iraq, my daily life will not be affected in the least. I sincerely doubt Al Qaeda will launch an en masse attack and enslave the American people if we leave the middle east.

Here's an idea: freedom of speech and freedom of the press are deeply ingrained in American law and philosophy. If you are opposed to that, there are plenty of fascist dictatorships for you to go live in. As you mindless conservatives love to say: if you don't like America, you can get out.

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Al Queda has already launched a massive attack on our country. Does 9/11 ring a bell???

Freedom of speech does not give me the right to lie or to yell fire in a crowded theater or to pass along stolen secrets either. How hard is that to get through your skull?

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europe doesn't have freedom of speech. what was this guy thinking?for such a smart guy julian assange sure is an idiot.

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