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Without Trump, Republican debate has 2nd lowest rating

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And yet, it makes Headline News around the World!!!

Look. We all know the Republican party is broken, Trump is a carnival barker, Cruz is dangerous, and the rest are lousy. We all know the right wingers cannot change their minds and won't change the subject.

We all know the Republican party must be destroyed.

Now, being the lib Dem that I am, I love, just absolutely love, each day tv personality Donald Trump makes news. Because each day he does so, each day he insults more Latino and female voters, is another nail in the coffin for Republicans come this November. And the best, and I mean, bestest best BFF best thing about it is Republicans are so out of touch, they actually think Trump is their best chance.

Still, this is gettting old. Even I must admit it.

'Cause the earth is only 6000 years old, tax cuts always work, liberals are woosies, Jesus combats homo sin while riding his dino. And Trump is not only qualified to be President, he will win!! 'Cause he tells it like it is!!

4 ( +14 / -10 )

Second lowest- so presumably a debate with Trump scored lower? That makes it hard to accept this story's implied conclusion that Trump is somehow necessary to have a good debate.

In fact, it could well be that the opposite is true. Sure, lots of people tune in when Trump acts like a self-entitled idiot, but these are not people tuning in to see nuanced policy debate in the first place. These are people who would otherwise be watching reality TV. Trump is bad for the debates because he turns them into entertainment, rather than you know, a process for improving the lives of Americans.

But then again, it feels good to hear a rich and famous person tell you you're good people and everything that frustrates you is the moral failing of someone who isn't a part of your group. And isn't that what American-style politics is all about?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Folks criticizing Turmp as a carnival sideshow don't understand that his popularity stems from 1.) recognition that the single most important issue for this election is immigration in its many forms and amnesty for illegal aliens, 2,) Trumps willingness to end the PC aura that has made debate about immigration all but impossible and 3.) Trump is not a lifelong politician and therefore not beholden to special interests.

Trump-versus-Sanders is a real possibility---Hillary might be going to jail as 22 top secret emails were found in her computer, whoops!

-1 ( +9 / -10 )

“I have a very good relationship with Fox, but when somebody doesn’t treat you properly, you’ve got to be tough,” he said at a rally in New Hampshire.

A good example. If Trump finds the media "doesn’t treat you (Trump) properly" they will be replaced. Trump may have many fans of dictatorial bullies, how different is that from what the GOP Shia-Tea has become? What an ugly picture of America when a Trump can get the time of day from Americans.

Well, when he finishes having his likeness chiseled on the faces of the Washington Monument, maybe then some will question his limits of ego. Or, maybe when he has Honest Abe's visage replaced with his own. Maybe then.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

And isn't that what American-style politics is all about?

Republican, not American. As the post immediately below you amply demonstrates.

I suppose one of the nice things about Republican depravity these days is they don't even pretend any longer to represent or care about America.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

I'm not Republican (nor Tea Party) and I am also sometimes disappointed and disgusted with comments that Trump make. But we make trade-offs with anything we choose and I (and many other Americans) think immigration and the porous border is the number one concern for many reasons.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Trump says he will kill ISIS, deal with China and Russia, but can't deal with Megyn Kelly... Just sayin'...

3 ( +8 / -5 )

I'm not Republican (nor Tea Party

Yeah, sure your not. Tell me, when was the last time you voted for a Democrat?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

"...I (and many other Americans) think immigration and the porous border is the number one concern for many reasons."

sam: No disrespect, but I find it hard to believe that immigration could be the number one concern in your life or that of "many other Americans". Number one? Really?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Trump says he will kill ISIS, deal with China and Russia, but can't deal with Megyn Kelly... Just sayin'.

To be fair, my job is debating and negotiating with strong willed people very good at their jobs.

And I couldn't last three minutes against Kelly before devolving into a slobbering mass of hysterical rage.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

What are they talking about?

Without Trump, people could breath a bit of sigh of relief.

Fox News’ broadcast of the Republican presidential debate crushed Donald Trump’s campaign rally in viewership from 9:15 to 10:15 p.m., when CNN and MSNBC picked up coverage of the Trump event. During that hour, Fox News averaged 12.8 million total viewers. CNN averaged 2 million. MSNBC averaged 1.1 million.

In the key 25-54 demographic, Fox News averaged 3.5 million against Trump, while CNN averaged 616,000 and MSNBC averaged 260,000.

Fox News’ debate coverage drew 12.5 million total viewers, according to Nielsen live-plus-same day numbers. That’s down significantly from the 24 million total viewers that the network’s previous GOP debate drew last August. But the Thursday night debate did outperform the one held on Fox Business two weeks ago, which drew 11 million total viewers.

In the 25-54 demo, the total debate coverage averaged 3.5 million.

And yet, it makes Headline News around the World!!!

Actually, FNC had one of the best nights for a debate.

Look. We all know the Republican party is broken, Trump is a carnival barker, Cruz is dangerous, and the rest are lousy. We all know the right wingers cannot change their minds and won't change the subject.

Translation: Democrats are deeply scared that Trump could win the presidency.

We all know the Republican party must be destroyed.

I'll give you this, both parties seriously need to be reformed.

Now, being the lib Dem that I am, I love, just absolutely love, each day tv personality Donald Trump makes news. Because each day he does so, each day he insults more Latino and female voters, is another nail in the coffin for Republicans come this November.

Yeah, we heard that all before, but this time, it's different, you have more Whites coming out and going to cast their votes, this is one of the highest and crucial voting block of a majority that will come out in over 16 years. Be careful what you wish for.

And the best, and I mean, besets best BFF best thing about it is Republicans are so out of touch, they actually think Trump is their best chance.

As a non-Trump supporter, even I have to say, he could probably pull it off, but I'm not a Kool-aid drinker and with Hillary's growing problems and unpopularity soaring, the Dems are starting to get pulled into the swamp.

'Cause the earth is only 6000 years old, tax cuts always work,

They do, if you strengthen the private sector. Obama and liberal tax hikes haven't worked in 7 years, again, this is another reason we have a growing and angry society.

liberals are woosies,

No arguments there. I fully support that statement.

Jesus combats homo sin while riding his dino. And Trump is not only qualified to be President, he will win!! 'Cause he tells it like it is!!

He may not be qualified in my eyes, but the possibility that he could win is all too real.

Republican, not American.

Oh, don't be too sure of that.

I suppose one of the nice things about Republican depravity these days is they don't even pretend any longer to represent or care about America.

Hmmmm....that would be the Democratic party and particularly this president that Thank God will soon be out of office. I would never support a Bolshevik like Sanders, but to his credit, I think the guy is honest, cares really about what he believes in, but his ideas are whacked, they will never work for our nation and there is no way, that the majority of Americans would ever vote for a Socialist. We need a president that will do something about the private sector, focus on jobs, not more government and when you have 47 million people on food stamps a $38 Trillion and growing debt, printing more money, spending more than we take in, rising costs of unemployment benefits, public schools are a complete mess, corporate taxes are high, some of our cities filing for bankruptcy, the people are beyond tired of liberal progressive policies that care only for the advancement of implementing more of those policies in order to make them mainstream instead of just focusing on building a better America-period.

I'm not Republican (nor Tea Party) and I am also sometimes disappointed and disgusted with comments that Trump make. But we make trade-offs with anything we choose and I (and many other Americans) think immigration and the porous border is the number one concern for many reasons.

I completely agree. Hit the nail on the head.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

bass: if Trump not being there was such a boon, why the second worst ever ratings? and why did both O'Reilly and FOX CEO call on Trump, BEGGING him to join, even up to the last minute?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

O'Reilly did not beg Trump. He offered to buy him a milkshake. A MILKSHAKE!

Don't forget that.

- Americans for Milkshakes

1 ( +3 / -2 )

if Trump not being there was such a boon, why the second worst ever ratings?

That’s down significantly from the 24 million total viewers that the network’s previous GOP debate drew last August.

But the Thursday night debate did outperform the one held on Fox Business two weeks ago, which drew 11 million total viewers.

There you go. That ain't no chump change.

and why did both O'Reilly and FOX CEO call on Trump, BEGGING him to join, even up to the last minute?

Because as the guy that is LEADING in the GOP polls, you do need to have decorum and act like an adult and not like a whiny spoiled brat and not give in the legitimacy that he's afraid of Kelly.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

"I don't think she's professional at all,” Trump told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos, referring to Kelly. “She's very biased against me."

And this is Donald Trump's idea of what makes him qualified for the Office of President? What a loser.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"Without Trump, Republican debate has 2nd lowest rating"

This is what media addicts call "going cold turkey." They'll get over his absence eventually.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

A CNN interview delayed Donald Trump an hour, so putting this debate up against Trump's charity event in the same time slot is not really fair.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Because as the guy that is LEADING in the GOP polls, you do need to have decorum and act like an adult and not like a whiny spoiled brat and not give in the legitimacy that he's afraid of Kelly.

He is afraid of Kelly, otherwise he wouldn't have skipped the debate. He didn't like it that she called him out on his misogyny in the last Fox debate.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

.I (and many other Americans) think immigration and the porous border is the number one concern for many reasons.

It's a concern because of the wage stagnation and hollowing of the U.S. middle class. But it's not as if Trump has any fixes for those problems. An immigration fix itself isn't so hard. The beneficiaries of loose borders and loose labor law enforcement are the companies. Put the burden of vetting workers on those employers and penalize employers who violate this. But this will do little to fix the underlying problem.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

bass4funk: "Because as the guy that is LEADING in the GOP polls, you do need to have decorum and act like an adult and not like a whiny spoiled brat and not give in the legitimacy that he's afraid of Kelly."

I asked you why they were begging him to join the debate, and that's your answer?? All you're doing is proving my point about how desperate FOX was to have him on the debate regardless of how he is and his lack of decorum, solely so that they could boost their ratings and dropping what they call morals completely out the window (not that FOX ever had any to begin with).

And your description of O'Reilly as whiny spoiled brat is spot on, by the way, except you left out the wife abuser and drunkard parts.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

How many watched the democratic debates? Nuff said!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@Black Sabbath. Bill Clinton. Twice. And yes, I have also voted for Republicans. I vote for the person, not the party. I'm independent and an Independent.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

How many watched the democratic debates? Nuff said!

We watch the republican debates because it's like a slow train wreck - you just can't look away. I think they also call it schadenfreude.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Fact is that net illegal immigration was negative last year and for many years before. Trump building a wall would keep illegal immigrants from going back home rather than keeping people out. I know the right wing types are totally unaware of this fact as it is not reported on Fake News Channel.

"The undocumented population has essentially reached zero growth, " said Robert Warren, the author of a new report published by the New York-based Center for Migration Studies. "The population has stopped growing because slightly more people are leaving than are coming in from Mexico."

In fact, the number of unauthorized immigrants is about 10.9 million, the lowest since 2003, according to Warren. That's partly explained by the steady decline among the Mexican-born people living in the U.S. without permission, which has fallen by more than a million since 2008.

Economics as always is topic number one. Its the economy stupid as was stated during the Clinton campaign to defeat Bush the Senior. That is why America is feeling the Bern as Senator Sanders is making economics his number one topic, especially rebuilding the middle class which from Reagan on the republicans have basically tried to destroy.

Trump is a super hero. He was right that ratings would tank as they did. He is the star of the show. The other republicans are useless now. Trump is polling at 40% nationally despite there being 20 or so republican candidates. The race is over, congratulations to nominee Trump. Only he has the power and the guts to dump the Fake News Channel. He is a real leader in politics which is rare. Old Romney would have been at the debate no matter what Fake News said about him back in the last cycle.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Despite his appearance, and what he says, Trump is no fool. People here may laugh at him, and think of him as full of hot air, but he is a man who gets things done. And, more, he gets things done in the real world, not in the never-never-land of politics or academia, where truth and facts are relative. Anyone who takes Trump for a fool is seriously underestimating him; it is very likely that he has been working himself to the point he is now since Bill Clinton was president. His last runs were not serious, they were experiments, and now he thinks he has figured out the correct formula to actually win, and judging by his progress so far, he might be right.

Now Trump is not after republican voters, because Trump is not really a republican; he just chose the affiliation which he thinks is going to give him the best chance. But he is distancing himself from Fox News, and the other candidates; Trump is after the independent vote, and he is likely to get it. And he is going to get a lot of democrat votes as well. It is that small percentage of people in the middle, those who don't vote along party lines, who decide elections, not the dyed-in-the-wool democrats or republicans. Any candidate who can motivate independents to come to the polls is the most likely to win.

Right now 2016 election is for the Republicans to lose. Sanders is unelectable, no matter how much people wish otherwise. A 74 year old self-proclaimed socialist is not going to become president, period. Hillary is still the most viable candidate on the democrat side, but she is arguably the most hated woman in America. Anyone who knows Hillary personally either respects or or hates her, but no one likes her. The more the voters learn about Hillary as the election, the less they are going to like her, regardless of how good a president she might actually be. Neither of these candidates are going to inspire the mass of voters to come out to the polls, least of all the independent or minority voters.

What I would love to see is a debate between Hillary and Trump, and I truly hope I get a chance to see it. The queen of PC versus the potty mouth, it would be the highest-rated debate ever televised.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

"The point is, ladies and gentlemen, is that greed . . . for lack of a better word . . . is good."

Who said this?

A. Donald Trump

B. Gordon Gekko

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Fact is, Americans don't care about immigration.

Republicans do. Kinda. About half of Republicans consider it it their No.1 issue. That's less than the number who think the US should make Christianity the official religion. And also less than the number of Republicans who think Obama is a Muslim from Kenya.

IOW, who cares what they think? Donald Trump does...

And Republican make up, now get this, 25% of Americans.

IOW, Americans don't care about immigration.

Republicans do. And, as you all know,

The Republican party must be destroyed.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

"The point is, ladies and gentlemen, is that greed . . . for lack of a better word . . . is good." Who said this?

Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand said it as well. And they were not necessarily wrong. If you have a job, you have so because someone was so greedy that they started your company to satisfy themselves. And you got that job because you wanted or needed the money to satisfy your own greed. People do not start businesses, get educations, or go into politics because of good intentions, they do so to get the things they want, in other words, to satisfy their greed.

Most of us owe our livelyhoods to our personal greed, and the greed of others.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

That's a pretty pessimistic view of things.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

"Fact is, Americans don't care about immigration."

Complete baloney.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

MarkG: "How many watched the democratic debates? Nuff said!"

You're absolutely correct that ratings for a Republican debate, with or without Trump, would crush any Democratic debate at the moment, but for a few reasons (which Strangerland touched on): 1) The Democratic ticket is more or less decided, much as Bernie may seem to be gaining momentum. 2) Watching the Democratic debates is like watching an education video -- informative and helpful, and will benefit you in the future, perhaps, but dry. 3) tying into the previous reason, while a Democratic debate is something useful and education, the Republican debate is like watching a train wreck, or cock fighting or something; utter devoid of meaning, no useful information, will only really hurt your brain, but you get to shut off your mind and be entertained for a few minutes (which you never get back).

That's not really singing praises for Republican debates, Mark.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Complete baloney.

Wow! A devastating retort. Ready for my reply. Here is comes:

Is so!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

he is a man who gets things done

Yeah. He fires people and declares bankruptcy. His net wealth is no different than if he just stuck what he inherited into an SP index fund.

Oh, yeah. He also holds beauty pageants.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"Wow! A devastating retort."

From NBC News, dated 12/31/2015. Top issues for 2016 campaign.

Immigration Like health care, the issue of immigration is an issue that continuously comes up on the campaign trail and one that is concerning to the electorate for different reasons (see Rubio v Cruz). Republicans are more likely to want to control immigration and increase border security while Democrats are often more interested in a plan to address the undocumented immigrants living in the U.S.

That is evidenced on the campaign trail when Republican candidates have adopted an enforcement and border security approach while Democratic candidates discuss ways for immigrants to assimilate and stay in the U.S.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/eight-issues-could-shape-politics-2016-n456671

My note: #7 was the environment and #8 was guns.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Most of us owe our livelyhoods to our personal greed, and the greed of others.

No we don't. You simply reclassified greed so that you could present a self-serving argument.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

They should have called it "The flip-flop Show". FOX news taking cheap shots with old video "see...seee...that's not what you said 3 years ago!", then asking the other candidates, "Do you agree?" Childish! I hope FOX news ratings fall big time. And yes, the whole panel are BIMBO's (Boys/Broads in media behaving obscene) Great for Dem click bait, but terrible for Reps trying to choose a nominee.At least CNN and MSNBC show class, FOX, well....you can't show what you don't have.

Trump was right to avoid this BS.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The U.S. economy's performance strongly favors the Democratic nominee for president. The household incomes have been steadily improving. The only missing ingredient is stronger wage growth.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I asked you why they were begging him to join the debate, and that's your answer?? All you're doing is proving my point about how desperate FOX was to have him on the debate regardless of how he is

No, that's not desperation, but I will tell you this, in the world of cable TV, if you skip out on an opportunity, your rivals will take it. CNN and msnbc are desperate for ratings, so why should FNC give in, even though on a debate night without Trump they can still pull in 11 million which is great, but of course with Trump they should get about 24 million comfortably.

and his lack of decorum, solely so that they could boost their ratings and dropping what they call morals completely out the window (not that FOX ever had any to begin with).

Well, that's one opinion.

And your description of O'Reilly as whiny spoiled brat is spot on, by the way, except you left out the wife abuser and drunkard parts.

But when you talk about Bill Clinton, you give a pass on all of his transgressions or any of Hillary's failed blunders, when she was ducking from sniper fire and had a Brain Williams moment (where is he these days?) That's all under the rug, right?

We watch the republican debates because it's like a slow train wreck - you just can't look away. I think they also call it schadenfreude.

Now you want to copy my lines? That was meant for the Democrats and.....whatever.... Orignal

Fact is that net illegal immigration was negative last year and for many years before. Trump building a wall would keep illegal immigrants from going back home rather than keeping people out.

What about the 5000 kids that came in and Obama wanting to give them amnesty and legalize them? Oh, that's in the Supreme Court now since the man tried to circumvent the constitution and thought through executive action he could overstep the law.

I know the right wing types are totally unaware of this fact as it is not reported on Fake News Channel.

They covered that story all summer, now your nose just grew 3 feet!

Economics as always is topic number one. Its the economy stupid as was stated during the Clinton campaign to defeat Bush the Senior.

So that's why now we have a $38 Trillion debt and 47 million people on food stamps, median household income down around 6%.

That is why America is feeling the Bern as Senator Sanders is making economics his number one topic, especially rebuilding the middle class which from Reagan on the republicans have basically tried to destroy.

We had a sound Economy under Reagan, especially after the disastrous mess Carter put us in. I still remember all those long gas lines and that sweater....oh...that sweater he wore! So tell me, Bernie is trying to fix the economy, so that means, you agree with me that Obama has made a serious mess of things.

Trump is a super hero. He was right that ratings would tank as they did. He is the star of the show. The other republicans are useless now.

So now I'm confused, you actually do want Trump to win over Hillary?

Trump is polling at 40% nationally despite there being 20 or so republican candidates. The race is over, congratulations to nominee Trump. Only he has the power and the guts to dump the Fake News Channel.

And the weather today in the world of the unicornverse is? Zurc, seriously, that will never happen.

He is a real leader in politics which is rare. Old Romney would have been at the debate no matter what Fake News said about him back in the last cycle.

It just kills you guys that Trump could pull this off and if I were Hillary and the problems she's having now, add Sanders to the mix. The Hillary camp is definitely stocking up on the Cappuccinos.

Fact is, Americans don't care about immigration.

They care about closed borders, terrorism and security and they want LEGAL immigration.

Republicans do. Kinda. About half of Republicans consider it it their No.1 issue. That's less than the number who think the US should make Christianity the official religion. And also less than the number of Republicans who think Obama is a Muslim from Kenya.

On that last part......hmmm.....

The Republican party must be destroyed.

You don't think the Democrats need a big of a heavy tweak as well?

They should have called it "The flip-flop Show". FOX news taking cheap shots with old video "see...seee...that's not what you said 3 years ago!", then asking the other candidates, "Do you agree?"

So how should the debate have gone? Should the moderators ask questions to make the candidates feel good?

Childish! I hope FOX news ratings fall big time.

Ohhh, that's not going to happen, just like the Trump wave won't go anywhere (sadly)

And yes, the whole panel are BIMBO's (Boys/Broads in media behaving obscene) Great for Dem click bait, but terrible for Reps trying to choose a nominee.

Such as?

At least CNN and MSNBC show class, FOX, well....you can't show what you don't have.

Class as in how, letting a politician dictate how and who he wants to see on air or to moderate him? Trump is a giant Baby Huey with a bit of troubled hair.

Trump was right to avoid this BS.

And looking at the ratings and at the event, everyone seemed very pleased that the guy wasn't around. One less garrulous, bombastic loon to suck up all the air.....at least for a few days.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

"But when you talk about Bill Clinton, you give a pass on all of his transgressions or any of Hillary's failed blunders, when she was ducking from sniper fire and had a Brain Williams moment (where is he these days?) That's all under the rug, right?"

So well said!

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Examples please. Can't say I've ever seen him make a specific criticism, other than to say 'the party needs to be fixed' or something like that. Never anything specific, only generalities.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

People do not start businesses, get educations, or go into politics because of good intentions, they do so to get the things they want, in other words, to satisfy their greed.

That may be true for you but that is factually wrong based on research on entrepreneurs. Making lots of monty is way down on the list of motivations for starting a company. Jobs himself stated repeatedly that money did not matter to him personally in the creation of Apple or how he ran it to become the worlds biggest firm. Look it up. Stop reading the Fountainhead and learn about the real world.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Strangerland. I have to be careful not to put words into the mouth of other posters but if you read some of Bass' posts on the debates you will notice that he takes issue with a few of the things the GOP candidates (Bush in particular) say and believe.

Moderator: Other posters can speak for themselves. Please confine your comments to the story.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Again I have to be careful but I noticed items in previoius posts (not related to this current Trump thread). But even admitting that "both parties" have problems does suggest an attempt at fairness in my opinion. I have yet to see any criticism of the Democratic party by a liberal---not saying it hasn't happened just that I haven't seen any.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But even admitting that "both parties" have problems does suggest an attempt at fairness in my opinion.

Nah, it's just an attempt at saying 'well he did it too', when he in fact didn't even do it too.

I have yet to see any criticism of the Democratic party by a liberal

I don't have any particular criticisms of the Democratic party, but I'm entirely fine with criticizing certain democrats when they do something that deserves criticism.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@Strangerland. I don't have any particular criticisms of the Democratic party, but I'm entirely fine with criticizing certain democrats when they do something that deserves criticism.

That's fair.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

People look at it this way!! If the fat guy in North Korea can strike fear in the hearts of many countries with no political experience at all and get respect on the worldly stage how come someone like Donald Trump can't. People sleep on the little fat guy and he is still in power because of is family lineage so we can't rule out Donald Trump and the way Americans feel today about what's going on. THE PEOPLE HEARD ABOUT HOPE AND CHANGE well they have hope and they got CHANGE the only problem was it wasn't the kind of change they hoped. SO NOW they are hearing let's make America great again in reality it's the same bovine excretement because no matter who is in office change is going to happen and people are going to keep hoping and the world is going to continue to turn and spin out of control where it stops nobody knows!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Are you trying to set the political bar for Trump, at Kim Jong Un?

Pretty low bar.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Examples please. Can't say I've ever seen him make a specific criticism, other than to say 'the party needs to be fixed' or something like that. Never anything specific, only generalities.

All politicians speak in generalities.

Nah, it's just an attempt at saying 'well he did it too', when he in fact didn't even do it too.

No, it's admitting that both parties are highly flawed.

I don't have any particular criticisms of the Democratic party,

Oh, but I have and I just don't even know where to begin..... Don't worry, I'm not excluding the GOP to be fair, but I just hate when Dems think their **** don't stank.

but I'm entirely fine with criticizing certain democrats when they do something that deserves criticism.

There is a litany of Dems that need a lot of criticism.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

There may be democrats that need criticism, but I don't see anything about the democratic party as a whole that needs criticism.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There may be democrats that need criticism, but I don't see anything about the democratic party as a whole that needs criticism.

Then one might as well conclude that you may be a partisan, if you really refuse to see the catastrophe that the Democratic Party really is.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Such as?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Immigration is the big issue, and that is why Trump chose it. As I said before, Trump is not stupid. He cannot run on his national security or diplomatic expertise, and as a 5 time bankrupt (and judging by many of his comments), he is not very in-tune with macro economics, or even personal finance. Immigration is the issue which has propelled him up in the polls, and nothing else.

Many Americans are concerned when all of the signs in public buildings are in English and Spanish. They are concerned when they go to their local emergency room, and everyone is speaking Spanish. They are concerned that the wages for construction have been driven down so low by immigrants that minimum-wage work is all that new graduates and students can find. They are concerned that state and federal prisons are full of illegal immigrants, imprisoned not for entering America illegally, but for committing crimes. And after being released from prison, these illegal immigrants are not deported.

The democrat and republican establishment are both out of touch on the immigration issue. The democrat establishment loves illegal immigrants because they generally become part of the permanent underclass which always votes democrat. The republican establishment loves illegal immigrants because of their low cost of labor. One cannot say that the republican party is against illegal immigration, because such isn't the case; both parties want "comprehensive immigration reform", the only problem is, the voters don't. Any republican or democrat who passes such a law will be voted out of office. If that weren't the case, they would have reformed the law years ago. Obama could have done it when he and his party held both houses of congress, but he didn't, because he knew that he and his party would pay in 2012.

As long as Trump's main plank is immigration, his numbers will stay strong.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

bass4funk: "But when you talk about Bill Clinton, you give a pass on all of his transgressions or any of Hillary's failed blunders, when she was ducking from sniper fire and had a Brain Williams moment (where is he these days?) That's all under the rug, right?"

Sorry, didn't realise this was about Bill Clinton, Hillary, or any of the other Democrats you use time and again when you cannot address the facts and are in desperate need to deflect.

"Then one might as well conclude that you may be a partisan, if you really refuse to see the catastrophe that the Democratic Party really is."

Again, case in point -- but you are the biggest partisan on here (and claim you are not partisan at all!).

This is about Trump, the Republican debate without Trump, and FOX broadcasting without Trump and how it was the second worse of any debate. You can try blaming that on the Dems all you want, but it won't fly. Your numerous predictions of how Trump would quickly go down in the polls more than a year ago have clearly not panned out at all, and it is HILARIOUS to watch the desperation grow between the 'leaders' in the Republican crowd as they KNOW they have already lost the next election.

The biggest reason for watching the debates, Trump or no Trump, is again because the Republicans have already lost and it's fun to see who can make the because ass of themselves. The only thing that's been more fun so far was watching Palin's endorsement speech! hahaha.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

sam waters

I have yet to see any criticism of the Democratic party by a liberal---not saying it hasn't happened just that I haven't seen any.

Have you not heard of Bernie Sanders? Sure, it will be challenging to beat Hillary, but the fact that a lifelong Independent, self described Democratic Socialist has surged in polls is a sign of how many people are unhappy with the Democratic Party. I only registered as a Democratic to vote for him. (I was also an Independent)

I am a liberal though, so I will tell you I am very much unhappy with the Democratic Party. The DNC is a joke. I do not support Hillary Clinton AT all. BUT,if she secures the ticket, I'd vote for her over anyone the GOP is offering up this year.

@bass Don't you ever get tired? When you say 'Americans' please replace that with 'Conservatives' because you do not represent all of us.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

For starters there's this...

https://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2016/01/25/hillary-clintons-email-scandal-appears-gravely-criminal/

From thinking that they are superior just for being liberal, lack of willing to take responsibility for anything or even accountability for their actions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/07/22/the-democratic-partys-problem-with-blue-collar-whites-in-one-chart/

http://patriotupdate.com/top-10-liberal-contradictions/

Liberals are so full of contradictions on every level as long as it fits within their political agenda, there is no compromise or tolerance if you are anything, but a liberal and if you are a conservative and a Christian conservative it just gets worse. They want equality for everyone provided they fall into the pragmatic liberal realm. When Obama became president, America was not a racist country, Ben Carson runs for the presidency, America wouldn't vote for a Black conservative and then the attacks come from liberals on anything the man says. So basically, if you are Black and liberal, you are ok, but if you are black and conservative, you are a threat and dangerous for the liberal agenda. This is why Trump scares liberals because he may very well possibly turn the clock back on every screw up the liberals created in this country and undo all the mess that they did over the last 7 years. The people are really tired of these shenanigans and as I said before, I'm not a big Trump supporter, but I understand the allure and desperation as to why they love the guy. Even on the Democratic side, Sanders is a person that is not apart of the Washington establishment drawing bigger crowds and starting to slowly marginalize Hillary and the support she has. He'll never be president with the whacked ideas he has, but I give him credit for at least being honest and what he is. If only the other Democrats wouldn't be ashamed of where their ideology lies, I'd have a lot more respect for them, but they play this game of being for democracy while embracing socialism in its purest form and the last 7 years of that not only has it failed, but as a result of that backlash and the president NOT listening to the people that put him in office and the majority were White and now all of a sudden because many Whites disagree with his policies they are now racists? And at every turn Americans are made to believe that should be apologetic for everything, Whites are made to believe they are flat out racists just for being White while groups like Black Lives Matters get a pass and PC has run amok in this country. wIth all the despair, injustice and black lash towards Whites, conservatives, Christian conservatives, they are now fighting back and they found a fighter in Trump and Trump as we all know, doesn't believe in holding back, is direct in your face and will tell anyone to go and milk a rubber duck. He's not afraid of liberals at all, whatever he does and no matter what the liberals throw at him, so far it's just made him stronger and more popular with his base and followers and the fact that he could be our next president is every single liberals, progressives and feminists absolute worst nightmare. Obama and his minions are the result of us having a Trump and to a lesser extent a Sanders. The GOP is a very fragmented party, but the Dems are slowly right behind them. That's what's wrong with the Democratic Party.

Sorry, didn't realise this was about Bill Clinton, Hillary, or any of the other Democrats you use time and again when you cannot address the facts and are in desperate need to deflect.

I wasn't, not at all, I was just pointing out the liberal hypocrisy, keep it straight, keep it fair.

Again, case in point -- but you are the biggest partisan on here (and claim you are not partisan at all!).

Because, I'm not and if you were to read my diatribe against the GOP, you would know that. But you choose to see what you want.

This is about Trump, the Republican debate without Trump, and FOX broadcasting without Trump and how it was the second worse of any debate.

But the Thursday night debate did outperform the one held on Fox Business two weeks ago, which drew 11 million total viewers.

Spinning is another problem that libs have. Now here is the real truth, if Trump were on, they could very well have had about 24 million viewers, that's great for Nielson and cable ratings, but even if they get 11 million without him is a huge victory, minus the baggage of Trump. So pretty much everyone is happy, except perhaps Trump.

You can try blaming that on the Dems all you want, but it won't fly.

Who said, I blame the Dems? Generally, No. About their reporting, yes. About Obama, yes, I sure do.

Your numerous predictions of how Trump would quickly go down in the polls more than a year ago have clearly not panned out at all, and it is HILARIOUS to watch the desperation grow between the 'leaders' in the Republican crowd as they KNOW they have already lost the next election.

Hey, so what, I was wrong, but now I do see the Trump phenomenon. I may not like, but unlike you libs that don't want to face the truth that he could be the next president, I see it as a very high probability.

The biggest reason for watching the debates, Trump or no Trump, is again because the Republicans have already lost

But not Trump.

and it's fun to see who can make the because ass of themselves.

The same way Hillary does. I get it! I really do! LOL

The only thing that's been more fun so far was watching Palin's endorsement speech! hahaha

But, unlike Hilarry, Palin is at least funny has a great sense of humor and is more appealing to the eye.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

These threads sure do attract a lot of attention, but I don't think I have ever seen a single case where anyone has ever changed their mind on an issue, let alone a candidate or a policy.

Surely everyone else has noticed that as well. There would be a lot less heat and no less light if people just popped in, waved a flag, and popped out. All the rest is just "stating the obvious" and attacking somebody you don't even know.

As for me, let me say that you all are a great bunch of people with interesting opinions. And I sure do hope my candidate wins because the alternative is unthinkable. And other words to that effect.

Specifically on this topic, it seems reasonable to me that the debate without Trump got much lower ratings. The result speaks volumes about Trump, the rest of the GOP, and the electorate. Like modern art, when confronted with modern politics, I suppose many people cock an eyebrow and just say, "Well, I don't understand it, but I know what I like."

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Ah, the Clinton emails are back. Must be an article slamming Republicans.

The GOP always finds a way to convince themselves they can win the White House without changing. Sure, they did nothing to court minorities or women over the last 4 years and their party is in a state of chaos, but if they can just get Hillary out of the race then maybe....just maybe....they can win the presidency anyway and delay their need to broaden their base for one more election.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Now I get why Obama's been busy clearing out GITMO. "Mrs. Clinton, your room is now ready.."

HillaryforPrison2016
-1 ( +2 / -3 )

5SpeedRacer5: These threads sure do attract a lot of attention, but I don't think I have ever seen a single case where anyone has ever changed their mind on an issue, let alone a candidate or a policy.

turbotsat, Jan. 30, 2016 - 09:52AM JST and Jan. 31, 2016 - 05:10AM JST.

And I think I've seen Strangerland, bass4funk, etc., change their minds on occasion. Maybe not on their major, most-heartfelt beliefs :). But Strangerland actually fell on the same side as Faux News the other day! (vs Trump!)

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/japan-unveils-1st-domestic-made-stealth-plane#comment_2135684

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/japan-unveils-1st-domestic-made-stealth-plane#comment_2136121

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The GOP always finds a way to convince themselves they can win the White House without changing.

And that's exactly the same problem that the Dems have. Both parties think this way. Before the Dems lost the House and Senate, they didn't think they had to change anything, the people were tired of their recklessness and disregard of them not paying attention to their constituents and because of that ego and over-confidence attitude they lost them both. Change doesn't apply only to the GOP. The Dems are in desperate need of it as well.

Sure, they did nothing to court minorities or women over the last 4 years and their party is in a state of chaos,

Yes and libs didn't do anything to draw the attention of more Whites, married women which still make uo the majority and completely shunned them and now that group is growing in power, supporting Trump and on the Dems side, they're slowly falling apart with Sanders throwing a monkey wrench in Hillary's plans and if Hillary loses to a 74 year old Bolshevik, that would be a devastating second blow for her, given the fact she was beaten once by an unknown young Black man 8 years ago.

but if they can just get Hillary out of the race then maybe....just maybe....they can win the presidency anyway

Sorry, the GOP doesn't have to do anything, first: her emails are doing a good job of keeping the FBI busy and in her hair and second: Sanders is doing an excellent job of giving that woman a lot of stress with his growing popularity.

and delay their need to broaden their base for one more election.

I don't think they need to worry about that.

Now I get why Obama's been busy clearing out GITMO. "Mrs. Clinton, your room is now ready.."

She does need the space, something she's accustomed to.

HillaryforPrison2016

I like that. It has a catchy tone to it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

When Obama became president, America was not a racist country, Ben Carson runs for the presidency, America wouldn't vote for a Black conservative and then the attacks come from liberals on anything the man says.

Are you saying liberals won't vote for Carson because he's black, or because he's conservative? I won't vote for Carson because I won't for anyone--regardless of color or political persuasion--who thinks

Darwin bollixed it up

the Earth is NOT billions of years old

Egypt's pyramids were used for storing grain

And thoughtful liberals, moderates and conservatives are with me on this. The bottom line: People attack Carson because he's a crackpot.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

bass: Sorry, the GOP doesn't have to do anything

Then don't change a thing.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

First of all, Trump should've attended the Fox debates. Trump's ploy might play well with his loyal supporters, but it's going to be hard to persuade a lot of people to take him seriously after this.

However, if the Republicans do end up backing either Cruz or Trump, the Democrats, regardless of whether their candidate is Hillary (most likely) or Bernie, will have the presidency in the bag. There is no way in hell a Cruz or a Trump candidacy will even get off the ground in a general election. Oh, they might win the Confederacy again like Romney did, but that won't be enough to give them the White House. Cruz or Trump, then it's over.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Are you saying liberals won't vote for Carson because he's black, or because he's conservative?

Most progressives won't. Yes, that's what I'm saying.

I won't vote for Carson because I won't for anyone--regardless of color or political persuasion--who thinks

Darwin bollixed it up

How do you know he didn't? This is a Devil's advocate argument.

the Earth is NOT billions of years old

But there are millions of people that don't believe that.

Egypt's pyramids were used for storing grain

Well, that was indeed a first, even for me.

And thoughtful liberals, moderates and conservatives are with me on this. The bottom line: People attack Carson because he's a crackpot.

Any man that can separate conjoined twins, do a surgical procedure on an unborn fetus in a womb and take out half of a brain of a person and they still can function relatively well is far from a crackpot, regardless of what they believe, seriously.

Then don't change a thing.

And that's also the Democrats biggest problem as well.

However, if the Republicans do end up backing either Cruz or Trump, the Democrats, regardless of whether their candidate is Hillary (most likely) or Bernie, will have the presidency in the bag.

I'll tell you this with almost serious certainty, if Sanders is the candidate, that White House will be painted Gold for sure and have a capital "T" on the front door.

There is no way in hell a Cruz or a Trump candidacy will even get off the ground in a general election.

Hey! 7 years ago, most of us thought that Hillary might become the next president

Oh, they might win the Confederacy again like Romney did, but that won't be enough to give them the White House. Cruz or Trump, then it's over.

And then he Dems realized reality set in and the hard fact f the truth was when the country has to choose between a professional liar, a Bolshevik and a clown, the people will go for the clown, at least clowns are funny and keep you entertained.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Are you saying liberals won't vote for Carson because he's black, or because he's conservative?

Most progressives won't. Yes, that's what I'm saying.

What are you saying. That was a QUESTION. Which one are you accusing of being the prejudice?

If your answer is 'Liberals won't vote for Carson because he's black', you are just plain trolling. There is no better explanation.

If your answer is 'because he's conservative' well DUH! Yes, progressives do not generally vote for conservatives. What is the world is your point?

Egypt's pyramids were used for storing grain

Well, that was indeed a first, even for me.

You have proven you do not keep well informed on the reasons why no one is voting for Carson. This was all over the news for weeks, as well as many other points that showed he was not a very credible candidate. Being a brain surgeon does not guarantee he is all right in the head. I and other independents actually though he might be a decent contender in the early days, then he started getting lots of news coverage and his questionable character and views turned every one against him.

With all due respect, instead of going off about this and that, why don't you learn more about what is really going on instead of making your own conclusions?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How do you know [Darwin didn't bollix it up]? This is a Devil's advocate argument.

It's not an argument at all.

But I know Darwin didn't bollix it up because I understand scientific evidence and I'm justifiably skeptical of supernatural explanations.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If your answer is 'Liberals won't vote for Carson because he's black', you are just plain trolling. There is no better explanation.

But the opposite can't be true for conservatives, right?

If your answer is 'because he's conservative' well DUH! Yes, progressives do not generally vote for conservatives. What is the world is your point?

That was a rhetorical question.

You have proven you do not keep well informed on the reasons why no one is voting for Carson. This was all over the news for weeks, as well as many other points that showed he was not a very credible candidate.

I didn't think anything was wrong with his candidacy. Sure, he made some fumbles and so what if the guy thinks the world is 200 years old, as long as he can govern properly, who cares? For a group of people that claims its party is tolerant, I think it's anything but!

Being a brain surgeon does not guarantee he is all right in the head.

Then you and I should be able to do the same. But then again, thinking about the last 7 years, I think our president wasn't right in the head either, so to your point, you just might be right.

I and other independents actually though he might be a decent contender in the early days, then he started getting lots of news coverage and his questionable character and views turned every one against him.

I know a few people that felt it didn't matter what he believed in, doesn't have anything to do with his character and judgement.

With all due respect, instead of going off about this and that, why don't you learn more about what is really going on instead of making your own conclusions?

That's what I wanted to say to you liberals as well, excuse me, I meant liberal independents

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

It's not an argument at all.

Apparently it is for the people that don't believe in Darwinism.

But I know Darwin didn't bollix it up because I understand scientific evidence and I'm justifiably skeptical of supernatural explanations.

That's you and if people don't want to believe in that, leave it be. I don't believe we are in any position to judge anyone on what they believe spiritually or scientifically.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

That's you and if people don't want to believe in that, leave it be. I don't believe we are in any position to judge anyone on what they believe spiritually or scientifically.

I leave it be until people put themselves up for public office. I also believe we're in a position to judge spiritually and scientifically. I judge support for slavery, as seen in the Old Testament and the Qur'an, to be spiritually bankrupt. I judge young earth creationism as scientifically bankrupt and ignorant.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@bass4funk

As far as Trump & Cruz, yeah, I don't think they have a chance in a general election. However, if somebody like Rubio wins the Republican nomination, then the dynamics will change significantly. Suddenly, you've got a bilingual Spanish speaking Hispanic-American who could do for the Republicans with Hispanics what Obama did in rounding up the black vote. As things stand, I think Rubio is the one who could offer the most serious challenge. Plus he's relatively untarnished. Instead of completely losing the Hispanic vote with a Trump nomination, the Republicans could bring back many, if not most, of them with a Rubio nomination. I'm not an expert, but I do know a lot of Hispanics and if their views are representative of most Hispanics, they're going to love lining up to cast a vote against Trump. They really can't stand him.

By the way, I'm not a particular fan of anybody from either side and I think it's pretty sad that there aren't better choices from either party.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If you like Trump or not but it seems to be Trump will be next President of United State because peoples are tired of their Politicians' misleading. If your politician from other countries and then you should keep bad mouthing about Donald Trump.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

That makes perfect sense; I would rather watch grass grow than watch the Republican robot sheep flock bleat our their standard-manufacture pious delusions and mentally concerning rhetoric. How unfortunate for the fiscal conservatives of the US to have such pathetic options.

At least Trump doesn't pretend, whereas the other robot-like objects are too repulsive to even think of as humans

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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