World leaders meet in Switzerland to discuss Ukraine peace roadmap

Since Putin has shown he is not serious about peace yet, it is up to the civilized countries to come up with the actual roadmap forward.

“What is clear is that China is not here, and I presume they’re not here because Putin asked them not to come and they obliged Putin,” said Biden's top foreign policy advisor, Jake Sullivan. “And I think that says something about where China stands with respect to Russia’s war in Ukraine. I think countries should take notice of that.”

Maybe we need sanctions against China, who is clearly supplying Russia's Military Industrial Complex to prolong this war.

The text below isn't mine but I agree tout a fait

"Peace in Ukraine will not come until the US military-industrial complex has mastered the entire budget allocated by the US Congress to support Ukraine.

The purpose of the summit in Switzerland was a public demonstration of cretins with whom Vladimir Putin should have nothing to do.

Of the serious people there, only Hakim Fidan, who represented Turkey, was there.

The low intellectual level of the participants, the 5-minute speeches of the "top officials of the states" who could not formulate anything in essence, a caricature of the world elite.

Kuku

Peace in Ukraine will not come until the US military-industrial complex has mastered the entire budget allocated by the US Congress to support Ukraine.

It's maybe a good idea, but that is not required. Russia can't sustain this war and will have to withdraw eventually.

Gazprom, source of 25% of the world's natural gas, is now posting a loss. About 10% of Russia's oil refining capability has been incapacitated by Ukrainian drones.

Putin's folly is costing Russia big.

KukuToday 06:53 am JST

The text below isn't mine but I agree tout a fait

"Peace in Ukraine will not come until the US military-industrial complex has mastered the entire budget allocated by the US Congress to support Ukraine.

So then it is clear that Russia can be outspent and buried. Good to know.

The purpose of the summit in Switzerland was a public demonstration of cretins with whom Vladimir Putin should have nothing to do.

Well, yes, he can stay isolated in his sterile apartments and giant tables.

Of the serious people there, only Hakim Fidan, who represented Turkey, was there.

Did he say Ukraine should surrender?

The low intellectual level of the participants, the 5-minute speeches of the "top officials of the states" who could not formulate anything in essence, a caricature of the world elite.

Better platitudes than criminal proposals.

Nothing of that pathetic skit is valid without Russia..

Just a circus of loser clowns..

TokyoLiving

Nothing of that pathetic skit is valid without Russia..

Unfortunately, Russia has demonstrated that it doesn't want peace.

@2020: Unfortunately, Russia has demonstrated that it doesn't want peace.

Exactly, Putin knows his Soviet Union came out lower after WW2 and the Cold War, and that the 'West' prevailed, now with the help of China, the little tsar-wannabe wants to be the globe's top power, perhaps he will have to share that role with the CCP, Iran, North Korea, and others that prefer fascism to democracy. Russia is an aging power that has been relevant because of its natural resources, which are the results of millions of years of geologic actions, flukes of nature, and not the actions and belief systems of Russia's leadership and people. Time for Putin to sell off his country and retire down in one of his country's deep underground fallout shelters, somewhere far from the rest of the world.

"" though any hopes of a real breakthrough were muted by the absence of Russia.""

Of course, this must have been a JOKE, the rest of the world is watchin and laughing at what is unfolding. Nothing will be accomplished without the involvement of both sides.

Nice PARTY Though.

In a separate initiative last month, China and Brazil agreed to six “common understandings” toward a political settlement of the Ukraine crisis, asking other countries to play a role in promoting peace talks to be held “at a proper time” with both Russia and Ukraine involved.

And what a joke that was: basically "don't nuke anything", "stop shelling the nuclear power plant", and that's about all they got.

Sad to see Switzerland let themselves be used. Definitely debased their neutralist credentials for what amounts to a massive smoke blowing exercise.

Must have missed the 'Swiss peace conference' on Afghanistan or Iraq or Libya or Syria or Serbia or Donbass or any one of the numerous others attacked by some of the hypocrites present here.

This amounts to an unacceptable ultimatum divorced from reality. Promotes the illusion that Ukraine is close to winning and obscures the pear-shaped situation Kyiv regime forces now are in and the ascendant position of Russia.

Also obscures question marks of legitimacy and terms having expired.

Putin will only accept peace on his terms, which are of course unacceptable. If he accepts anything less he will not be able to sell it to the Russian public given the sacrifices made, and this could lead to him being outsed and probably murdered by a rival.

Putin probably knows he cannot win the war (although apparently he doesn't use the Internet), and that the clock is ticking as the Russian army runs out of material and offensive capability. It's spring offensive near Khakiv has been disastrous in terms of loses. Putin's war chest is running out and the Russian economy is under strain with rising inflation while at the same time Ukraine is receiving support. His upcoming trips to North Korea and his so-called peace proposal I think are signs of desperation.

JJEToday 09:05 am JST

Sad to see Switzerland let themselves be used. Definitely debased their neutralist credentials for what amounts to a massive smoke blowing exercise.

You mean the neutrality that saw them accepting Nazi gold?

Must have missed the 'Swiss peace conference' on Afghanistan or Iraq or Libya or Syria or Serbia or Donbass or any one of the numerous others attacked by some of the hypocrites present here.

Russia was pretending to be a peacemaker prior to 2022. Are you suggesting Switzerland should have invited the Taliban and ISIS over?

This amounts to an unacceptable ultimatum divorced from reality.

Start sh*t. Get hit.

Promotes the illusion that Ukraine is close to winning and obscures the pear-shaped situation Kyiv regime forces now are in and the ascendant position of Russia.

Still a long way to Kyiv.

Also obscures question marks of legitimacy and terms having expired.

Only a problem for Russia as there is no one else to negotiate with.

Putin's intention has always been to take back the whole of Ukraine.

I tend to disagree with that

Based on what? He invaded Georgia, Crimea, threatened Eastern European states, calls all of his invasions 'special operations'. Even if you could believe what he says, his actions still betrays.

Then there's the involvement of Belarus and the attacks on western Ukraine....it just goes on and on. You only need to look at Russian's economic tentacles to see Putin's true ambition.

Peace in Ukraine will not come until the US military-industrial complex has mastered the entire budget allocated by the US Congress to support Ukraine

The US military or its assets doesn't need to be involved at all. Europe just has to stop given Putin money, and I mean litterally, every economic ties from Europe, whether minerals, energy, grains...goes straight to oligarch, and onto Putin. This is documented by so many people, including European. Putin fears loosing his personal wealth and control.

Unfortunately, we have from Macron, to Merkel ... all denying the Putin threat, even now Macron is still saying Putin is a friend, and Merkel is still not repentant. This is why this conflict will continue.

Ramsey's Kitchen

Putin's intention has always been to take back the whole of Ukraine.

I tend to disagree with that. Control of Russian ethnic majority Crimea and Donbass seem to be his goals ,

It's not. You may have noticed that the invasion included Kyiv, but he withdrew when he found that they didn't surrender and he didn't have the manpower.

he clearly stated that a number of times, latest 2 days ago.

And you believe him. He also said that he wouldn't invade Ukraine in 2022.

Analysts are saying that the main purpose of it was to draw out UAF reserves from elsewhere to the Kharkiv area so that RAF can push for more breakthroughs further south along the frontline.

That was a costly mistake. Now Ukraine can use foreign weapons in Russia.

If one watched Putin's speech from the FM (about 30 mins long), he outlined many things.

One key takeaway to consider of his counteroffer yesterday was the minimalist nature of it and he specifically said future offers will be harsher. This is now a pattern as it was harsher than the terms offered at the Istanbul negotiations. Which was harsher than the Minsk Agreements, which seems like a walk in the sun by comparison.

Kyiv has effectively forfeited another 3-4 oblasts.

JJE

If one watched Putin's speech from the FM (about 30 mins long), he outlined many things.

One key takeaway to consider of his counteroffer yesterday was the minimalist nature of it and he specifically said future offers will be harsher.

It's not a serious offer and he knows it. It just shows the west that Putin doesn't want peace.

Kyiv has effectively forfeited another 3-4 oblasts.

Nope.

JJEToday 09:47 am JST

If one watched Putin's speech from the FM (about 30 mins long), he outlined many things.

One key takeaway to consider of his counteroffer yesterday was the minimalist nature of it and he specifically said future offers will be harsher.

Yes, the madman will keep saying he will destroy the world but this is why he is not to be taken seriously.

This is now a pattern as it was harsher than the terms offered at the Istanbul negotiations. Which was harsher than the Minsk Agreements, which seems like a walk in the sun by comparison.

Considering yesterday's speech was unacceptable, Istanbul was fiction, and Minsk was a lie, maybe we are making progress.

Kyiv has effectively forfeited another 3-4 oblasts.

How long until they control just the Lviv area?

Ramsey's KitchenToday 09:56 am JST

And you believe him. He also said that he wouldn't invade Ukraine in 2022.

No more or less than the western leaders with their history of lies.

Typical Russian logic: the West prevented a genocide in Kosovo so whatever Russia does in the form of rape, murder, or theft are 100% legal.

Putin is not a "world leader."

Most likely candidates are Kharkiv and Sumy to plug up the border. Odesa and Mykolaiv. Could be more of course, west of the Dniepr. Lviv belongs to someone else.

Ramsey's KitchenToday 10:08 am JST

Typical Russian logic: the West prevented a genocide in Kosovo so whatever Russia does in the form of rape, murder, or theft are 100% legal.

Typical US NAFO fan talking point....when Russia is at war they bring evil, when US is at war they bring ' freedom' .

We certainly don't bring highway robbery.

JJEToday 10:07 am JST

Most likely candidates are Kharkiv and Sumy to plug up the border. Odesa and Mykolaiv. Could be more of course, west of the Dniepr. Lviv belongs to someone else.

What's the timetable? We keep missing the timetable.

Ramsey's Kitchen

Today 09:26 am JST

Putin's intention has always been to take back the whole of Ukraine.

> I tend to disagree with that. Control of Russian ethnic majority Crimea and Donbass seem to be his goals , he clearly stated that a number of times, latest 2 days ago.

> It's spring offensive near Khakiv has been disastrous.

> Analysts are saying that the main purpose of it was to draw out UAF reserves from elsewhere to the Kharkiv area so that RAF can push for more breakthroughs further south along the frontline.

There is no point in trying to point any of this out, most here are not interested in facts.

A peace conference without one of the major belligerents involved is being pushed by MSM as some great thing just like they originally pushed the Ukrainian summer offensive as going great.

And now they are trying say the Kharkiv offensive failed when under 10,000 Russians took more territory in 2 weeks than Ukraine did in the whole 2023 offensive then ignore that Ukraine rushed 30,000 troops from the south to barely hold back 10,000 Russians leaving the south open for more Russian advances.

The fact that Russia in 1 month has captured 3 times more territory than Ukraine did in the 2023 summer offensive seems lost onore here and western leaders and MSM.

The comments next will be as we are already seeing "in 2022 Ukraine pushed back Russia" or something like that. Ignoring that 2022 Russia had 200,000 to 250,000 men and today 600,000 inside Ukraine.

Even western military are saying the 2022 Russian army and the 2024 one are totally different, bigger, better equipped, more modern, not only did Russia rebuild its armed forces it increased everything by 15% to 20%, it is out producing the entry west in weapons and ammunition and this is admitted to by even NATO and the USA.

But we keep to the illusion that Ukraine is winning and Ukraine is going to push Russia out including Crimea!

There is no timetable. If one has been following daily developments on the battlefront, the focus of RFAF is inflicting diabolical casualties on outnumbered and outgunned UAF formations while conducting incremental and careful gains. This could increase in tempo as UAF forces are ground down.

AntiquesavingToday 10:15 am JST

The comments next will be as we are already seeing "in 2022 Ukraine pushed back Russia" or something like that. Ignoring that 2022 Russia had 200,000 to 250,000 men and today 600,000 inside Ukraine.

So considering Russia's gains are much worse than 2022, Russia is now doing what 3x worse? You don't go from an army riddled with a corruption to a well suppled and well trained force in war time.

Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO. They don't have a permission slip from Moscow and won't get one.

They won't be able to win the conflict, push RFAF out and reestablish 1991 borders - the only feasible path.

On the contrary, Ukraine is shrinking and will be reduced to rump state status.

Antiquesaving

The fact that Russia in 1 month has captured 3 times more territory than Ukraine did in the 2023 summer offensive seems lost onore here and western leaders and MSM.

But that's irrelevant. You have to look at the big picture and realise that Putin isn't even close to taking any significant territory.

In the meantime Russia are losing S400 missile defence batteries in Crimea.

Russia has lost control war of the Black Sea. Remember the grain corridor? Ukraine have no restrictions anymore on shipping grain. Russia's ship have abandoned Sevastopol due to too many losses.

Gazprom, source of 25% of the world's natural gas, is now posting a loss. About 10% of Russia's oil refining capability has been incapacitated by Ukrainian drones.

New sanctions have suspended trade in U.S. dollars and euros.

You can see why Putin wants to pause this conflict - it's hurting Russia badly.

JJE

Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO.

Not what Biden said.

They don't have a permission slip from Moscow and won't get one.

They don't need one. It's their choice not Putin's.

They won't be able to win the conflict, push RFAF out and reestablish 1991 borders - the only feasible path.

Russia will end the war like they did the Afghan war - with their tail between their legs.

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 10:19 am JST

AntiquesavingToday 10:15 am JST

> The comments next will be as we are already seeing "in 2022 Ukraine pushed back Russia" or something like that. Ignoring that 2022 Russia had 200,000 to 250,000 men and today 600,000 inside Ukraine.

> So considering Russia's gains are much worse than 2022, Russia is now doing what 3x worse? You don't go from an army riddled with a corruption to a well suppled and well trained force in war time.

Tell that to NATO and USA general, they are the ones saying that the Russian army is better now!

And again 2022 is not today!

But yes you can go from curruped shambled army to a winning army in war time and the USSR against Germany in WW2 makes that very clear, or did you forget that?

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 10:12 am JST

JJEToday 10:07 am JST

> Most likely candidates are Kharkiv and Sumy to plug up the border. Odesa and Mykolaiv. Could be more of course, west of the Dniepr. Lviv belongs to someone else.

> What's the timetable? We keep missing the timetable.

We should ask you the same thing, what is the timetable of Ukraine 2023 offensive to reach Crimea?

You remember that?

Funny how you ask the same things over and over again forgetting when asked the same questions during the Ukrainian summer offensive you and other just kept repeating Ukraine is winning, remember 2022!

JJEToday 10:37 am JST

Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO. They don't have a permission slip from Moscow and won't get one.

They won't be able to win the conflict, push RFAF out and reestablish 1991 borders - the only feasible path.

So basically your argument is the frozen conflict will prevent NATO membership. That's not the same as needing a permission slip from the genocidal state. In any event, you will find the only thing NATO membership would provide in addition is actual NATO troops.

AntiquesavingToday 10:41 am JST

But yes you can go from curruped shambled army to a winning army in war time and the USSR against Germany in WW2 makes that very clear, or did you forget that?

That was done with human wave tactics and western support or did you forget that?

AntiquesavingToday 10:44 am JST

Funny how you ask the same things over and over again forgetting when asked the same questions during the Ukrainian summer offensive you and other just kept repeating Ukraine is winning, remember 2022!

Just like how you keep saying remembering 2022 is ridiculous, I find your remembering of 2023 ridiculous. The timetable is important or it is just blowing hot air.

More of 40% of the guests didn't come..

Summit of nothing..

LOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOL!!!...

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 11:07 am JST

AntiquesavingToday 10:41 am JST

> But yes you can go from curruped shambled army to a winning army in war time and the USSR against Germany in WW2 makes that very clear, or did you forget that?

> That was done with human wave tactics and western support or did you forget that?

Absolutely false and if you knew the real history, you would know that!

Yes human wave was used in the first part of the war but out producing and out numbering was what won the war, that battle of Kursk being the best example.

Despite the Germans having far superior equipment more technology, the sheer number or Soviet tanks made the technological superiority void.

The Soviets fielded multiple times more artillery, tanks and men!

Sound familiar?

Ukraine has a mishmash of highly superior equipment, more accurate artillery, but all different all like WW2 Germany needing highly trained crews to maintain, a USA howitzer not only needs shells it need liquid nitrogen and regular maintenance at very short intervals.

Ukraine will have F16 and mirage jets great but again different maintenance crews with totally different training as well as the pilots. A pilot trained to fly a F16 if he has no F16 due to damage or it is destroyed on the ground, will not be able to jump into a Mirage, this isn't Hollywood where the hero can fly everything like an expert.

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 11:08 am JST

AntiquesavingToday 10:44 am JST

> Funny how you ask the same things over and over again forgetting when asked the same questions during the Ukrainian summer offensive you and other just kept repeating Ukraine is winning, remember 2022!

> Just like how you keep saying remembering 2022 is ridiculous, I find your remembering of 2023 ridiculous. The timetable is important or it is just blowing hot air.

You must be joking?!

2022 ended and since then Ukraine hasn't been able to do anything but lose more territory!

2023 was just 6 months ago and the advance by Russia hasn't stopped, no breaks of a year, no slow down, just a steady advance and if you don't believe it or like it just look at deepstatemap the pro Ukraine site backed by Ukrainian government, even it cannot hide the gains by Russia.

Bakhmut then Send since then more and more territory west of both to the point Russia is now in Chasiv Yar another " no retreat no surrender" city like Ukraine said about both Bakhmut and Avdiivka.

2023 advances by Russia haven't stopped they just keep moving and taking more if Ukraine!