World leaders vow to defend climate pact after Trump pullout

If the US doesn't lead the initiative, then the US doesn't want to be part of it. That's part of "Make America Great Again!" right ?

I guess none of those nations/CEOs/groups have heard the GOP talking points yet. I mean, have they even considered the Hollywood hypocrisy?

This is just a continuation of the culture wars. Trump supporters see Europeans as effete and snobbish, eating their fancy cheeses and talking their funny languages. These are people who either can't or won't travel, and who are content to keep it that way. They are bitter and angry, and they have no problem cutting off their nose to spite their face. They apparently have lots of opioids to dull the pain.

Welcome to the winningest nation in .... 

The group of three nations not participating in the Paris Climate Accord.

"This action is totally contrary to their best interests: their health, security, food supply, jobs and future."

However, for Trump'ss richest and most powerful supporters, i.e. those in the resource extraction business worldwide, it's in their best interests. Trump'ss made a clear statement: it's petroleum uber alles. Forget about alternative energy technologies. Forget about ramping down the conflicts in MENA.

It's all about the petrodollars - and the petrorubles.

It's truly an embarrassment.

It's myopic, selfish, isolationist. It's the petty workings of a feeble and ignorant logic given far, far too much opportunity to implement itself.

Shameful.

Syria and Nicaragua! it would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

Russia believes in the Climate Accord too

https://www.rt.com/news/390458-russia-paris-climate-change/

"Russia confirms commitment to Paris climate change agreement amid fears of US pullout"

Syria, Nicaragua, US - the rogue states

No problem - the resurgence of federalism the GOP has always desired has begun. Trump no longer controls the government. Welcome to the Republic of California.

Finally they are figuring out how to do something on their own. Come up up with your own innovative ideas and the U.S. might cooperate.

This is what we're up against. The headlines from Fox News right now about the climate deal:

Mark Steyn: Environmentalists are at war with wealth

Pruitt on climate deals: US has nothing to be apologetic for

Pence: Paris deal put 'extraordinary burden' on US economy

Pruitt, Spicer dodge questions on Trump's personal views on climate change

MEDIA BUZZ: Why the press hate Trump's climate deal exit

FOX BIZ OPINION: Paris climate deal was another bad move by Obama

So they're playing the "they hate wealth" card, which is pretty much standard for something like this. No mention of the wealthy CEOs of a ton of industries who are against this. They'll play up the dangers to the economy as if it will be the end of the country (millions of jobs lost, etc.), and of course it's the Media and Obama driving this whole thing, which is another way for them to try to isolate the opposition to the usual handful of villains, even when the entire world is against them.

I'm assuming the next step will be to sabotage environmental causes and messages. The EPA has already taken down their page on climate change. GOP politicians will ban themselves from mentioning words like "climate change" and "global warming", which is what Florida did. If you can't say it, it doesn't exist.

After that, and this is just a guess on my part, but GOP governors will ban cities from following the Paris Accords. That's a new trick that GOP governors have pulled to take away power from Democratic cities and their mayors, essentially running the city through the state government to get around people voting blue.

They'll be mention of Hollywood, because, well, conservatives are obsessed with that evil pool of talented people. They are mentioned on Fox. A lot. They'll take the most outrageous statements from the Left and print them which will help cement the image in conservatives minds that we're all like that.

In the end they'll tell themselves that their tiny, tiny little fraction of the global population has this all figured out, despite being on the other side of pretty much everyone on earth, and the right thing to do is nothing because everyone is after the GOP's money.

This is just a continuation of the culture wars. Trump supporters see Europeans as effete and snobbish, eating their fancy cheeses and talking their funny languages.

As an American that speaks 4 languages and like fine cheese. I do agree. But I also think that many Europeans are ignorant about their personal perspective about Americans.

These are people who either can't or won't travel, and who are content to keep it that way. 

That goes both ways.

They are bitter and angry, and they have no problem cutting off their nose to spite their face. They apparently have lots of opioids to dull the pain.

They can be bitter, it's ok, life will go on and they will get over it, eventually. I cannot tell you how many ignorant and ill-informed people in Europe I met that have a very narrow-minded view towards the US or Americans, it goes both ways.

Syria, Nicaragua, US - the rogue states

Yeah, we are a rogue state, unstable government, kill children, imprison political opponents, gas our people and hinder any political opposition. Yes, we are so much like Syria and Nicaragua. LOL

Yeah, we are a rogue state, unstable government, kill children, imprison political opponents, gas our people and hinder any political opposition. Yes, we are so much like Syria and Nicaragua. LOL

Nice maniacal LOL at the end there.

Follow the money. From the Guardian:

"The Republicans who urged Trump to pull out of Paris deal are big oil darlings. Twenty-two senators wrote a letter to the president when he was said to be on the fence about backing out. They received more than $10m from oil, gas and coal companies the past three election cycles."

"At least $90m in untraceable money has been funneled to Republican candidates from oil, gas and coal interests in the past three election cycles, according to Federal Election Commission disclosures analyzed by the Center for Responsive Politics."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/01/republican-senators-paris-climate-deal-energy-donations

So even though you had Exxon supporting the Paris agreement, behind the scenes where was its money going. A green friendly PR campaign is one thing, what takes behind the scenes OTOH...

Interesting stuff. Trump made a monumental mistake and lost any chance for the U.S. to negotiate parts of this deal now or possibly even in the future. I think the U.S. should still have showed support for the agreement and over time negotiated parts of this accord (which is imperfect, but should be maintained) which are in fact problematic. We can see that Trump is by no means a "great negotiator" as he claims to be as he blundered big time on this.

@Superlib - I am in no way even close to being in agreement with the GOP nor am I a member of the GOP, however I despise the hypocrisy of people like DiCaprio, Gore, etc. who try to dictate how others should live without doing so themselves. As someone who makes a conscious effort to minimize my impact on the environment I find these guys disgusting. I do not see this as a "GOP talking point" rather a statement of fact.

I am in agreement with the objectives of the Paris accord, but have issues with a regressive carbon tax and carbon credits. I also have problems with non scientists making some outlandish claims.

In the end I am in agreement with most people commenting. Very foolish move and I would think even those who support the U.S. pulling out of this agreement would have to recognize the way this was done was idiotic.

So they're playing the "they hate wealth" card, which is pretty much standard for something like this. No mention of the wealthy CEOs of a ton of industries who are against this.

I don't think that's the issue, we know there are many on the left that are beyond wealthy that are against this, but Trump, as we have witnessed, doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks and the left can't change it.

They'll play up the dangers to the economy as if it will be the end of the country (millions of jobs lost, etc.), and of course it's the Media and Obama driving this whole thing, which is another way for them to try to isolate the opposition to the usual handful of villains, even when the entire world is against them.

So why didn't Obama try to present this deal to Congress? Obama knew full well that it would never have passed the Senate, so Obama used his executive powers to jam this bill through, which Trump can nullify with a stroke of his pen. The problem is not denying climate change, it's how it is approached and how the world THINKS the US should approach it.

A green friendly PR campaign is one thing, what takes behind the scenes OTOH....

How true that is. While the Germans are shutting down CO2 free nuclear power plants and building coal and gas plant to replace them, the US free market has revolutionized the US energy sector pushing CO2 emissions back to what they were two decades ago. While Al Gore brow beats the poor to give up inexpensive and plentiful energy sources, he owns multiple mansions and flies around the world in a private jet.

Europes CO2 emissions are increasing and America's are down dramatically. Europe should be a bit more self aware before opening their mouths and inserting their feet.

Good post crazyjoe although I think it goes beyond 'culture wars'. The US, and in this case Trump within the us, is completely isolated on this i.e it's very much DT vs the world.

My biggest disappointment is that a near perfect unanimity on how to tackle climate change has been broken by one of the biggest carbon polluter. The majority isn't always right but in this case I do think that the 195 odd nations that signed the Paris agreement (including the us) were bang on.

Re yanks not 'getting' euros and vice versa, I actually think things have changed/are changing for the better. Reckon small Texan farmers aren't too dissimilar to their Italian or Spanish counterparts and face the same pbms. Again Trump does not represent a majority of Americans on this, far from it.

Just finished watching "Incorporated". From executive producers Matt Damon, Ben Affleck on the SyFy channel, "Set in a future where corporations have unlimited power, 'Incorporated"', and the main theme is climate change, food scarcity, no rain/crops, the rich have walled themselves in and live like kings and queens, while those outside the wall live in squalor.

And it's canceled after one season due to low ratings. Top shows now on the SyFy channel are about Zombies and Vampires (google check; never seen them).

I thought the concept of the show was brilliant. At the start it was OK, but in the later shows it fell down that "TV Show" hell hole with too much useless dialog(blah blah) and diversions from the main theme.

My point, we are consumption animals, power is too centrally controlled towards this goal, corporations already control the modern world, the Paris Accord was a money grab paid for by a lot of US tax payers. Why not just have one simple objective and do that; CLEAN UP THOSE FLOATING PLASTIC ISLANDS SWIRLING AROUND THE OCEANS! Then move to the next one.

Not saying Trump is the answer either. Our systems are too corrupt to ever elect a person/group/party that will be able to greatly alter our current consumption/growth economies. Nothing besides a revolution will work. Call it the Green Revolution, I don't they've used that color yet for a political reasons.

We are a trashy species. I understand there are a LOT of dedicated people out there working to resolve our current consumption problems/consequences, but depending on politicians to do it is NOT the answer. Ironically, maybe the backlash from Trumps pullout will get the ball rolling. id anyone ever think about that? Bloomberg has already started. We'll see.

TO: JT. You're time limit for staying logged in is idiotic. I've lost a few comments because of this. What's wrong with you people?

World leaders vow to defend climate pact after Trump pullout -

Good for them. If world leaders want to continue their participation in this climate change pact, they should do so. OTOH, it's not the responsibility of these world leaders to speak for the U.S.A..

Obama chose NOT to present this agreement to the U.S. Senate. Why? Was it because he knew he didn't have the votes to ratify it? Was he looking for a pat-on-the-back from his liberal/progressive supporters? Either way, President Obama's choice led to the possibility that any future President could pull out of the agreement without going thru the Senate. Which is what happened.

The time that these world leaders are spending whining about U.S. participation in this non-binding agreement would probably be better spent chatting amongst themselves about their own non-binding participation. Are these world leaders going to miss the U.S.A.'s monetary contributions? Probably.

It shouldn't really matter if the U.S. is a participant in a non-binding agreement. The U.S. will continue to respond to man-made CO2 global warming on local, state, and federal levels. I assume the other world leaders can manage their own affairs?

Well, Syria is war-torn and kind of have other things to worry about. Nicaragua doesn't participate in Paris due to the fact that they think it's too lenient, and think some countries won't do their fair share....and America? Well, they want to MAKE AMERICA COVFEFE AGAIN!

There are plenty of Americans who do not share this man's idiotic viewpoint on climate change, of which I am one. The fact that he has caused us to become the joke of the world is upsetting, and it's even worse knowing he's looking to isolate us from the rest of the world. Americans will stand up, I guarantee it, and get rid of the wannabe dictator who doesn't have a clue beyond his own ego. I would like for the Earth to remain inhabitable for many future generations to come.

Bass:

Yeah, we are a rogue state, unstable government, kill children, imprison political opponents, gas our people and hinder any political opposition. Yes, we are so much like Syria and Nicaragua. LOL

Apart from the bit about gassing your own people I think you are pretty much spot on with your summation.

And cheekily adapting the nationalist slogan used by Trump on his election campaign trail, Macron urged defenders of the climate to "make our planet great again."

U.S. thought TRUMP just confirmed they don't care about our planet but only about their own little egocentric interest.

Tokyo-Engr:. however I despise the hypocrisy of people like DiCaprio, Gore, etc. who try to dictate how others should live without doing so themselves.

Who cares.

"it's not the responsibility of these world leaders to speak for the U.S.A."

That's the pot calling the kettle black. How many dirty grubby hands does the US have in other people's affairs to suit no one, but our own agendas.

And climate change affects everyone. This is not just the US screwing ourselves, but the rest of the world. Mexico, Canada, Cuba even really have something to worry about if the US decides to go backwards. Pollution has the potential to spill over to them, not to mention others.

"Obama chose NOT to present this agreement to the U.S. Senate. Why? Was it because he knew he didn't have the votes to ratify it? Was he looking for a pat-on-the-back from his liberal/progressive supporters?"

Because the Reps "in office" would never vote for something to help America as a whole, much less the world, unless they themselves made a staggering profit. Obama did what was right for Americans as a whole including the rest of the world.

"Are these world leaders going to miss the U.S.A.'s monetary contributions? Probably."

The world is stronger when they work together. Weaker when alone. You think the world can not get on with out the US? You are delusional. The US needs the World. The World does not need the US. Someone else will just step up if need be and most lilely someone the US will not be happy

"The U.S. will continue to respond to man-made CO2 global warming on local, state, and federal levels."

You mean while Reps are in charge by taking their ridiculous stock pile of weapons and firing up into the air? "Pow! Pow! Take that air pollution! Bang! Bang! Take that climate change!" Too bad we don't have a "green bomb". The world would probably be a much better place.

In the fine print you will find Government only have agree meets, It Industry who has legal commitments. Industry have long term contract in place since the Last rounds of WORLD agreements ( Paris ). So USA can change their agreement but Industry can not and will not until contract come up for renewal or a new round of world agreement is agreed to. Until the shortest contract expire The USA Government only have word of pulling out. the action start will industry pull out which could be in 5 years at the earliest.

"God bless America!" More like "Screw America!" Trump keeping with Reps philosophy. Only the truly wealthy will see remotely any of this good fortune he has in store for us. That is a long ways off "America First" he keeps spouting.

I hope people do go to France and dominate the energy sector. Fossil fuels are on their way out. Probably why they are so desperate to continue when they can. Blood money for the rich.

Well done to the US for doing this! There are so many more important issues in the world today than the whole climate change mumbo-jumbo. Trump just had the courage and vision to scrap it, hopefully others will follow

TG

The European Union and China have already said that in the absence of the U.S. they will unite to take a leading role in fighting climate change.

Well done to the US for doing this! There are so many more important issues in the world today than the whole climate change mumbo-jumbo. Trump just had the courage and vision to scrap it, hopefully others will follow

What are the many more important issues, Todd, than the future of the planet?

There was no vision except big money and the fossil fuel industry. As for courage; further isolating the US and causing serious concerns around the rest of the world smacks of DPRK tactics.

One effect of this move can be that many US products won't be seen as 'green' and other countries goods will be chosen.

@Superlib - I care. The interesting thing is we agree on this issue but if people are not 100% on board with your way of thinking then you and many others seem to have no room for them. Quite narrow way of thinking.

There are many people who would put more of themselves into this issue if there was less hypocrisy. Perhaps you idolize DiCaprio, Al Gore, etc. to the point where they can do no wrong. I see them as having zero science background, being constantly hypocritical, and making ridiculous claims (DiCaprio's about morality). These guys generate more CO2 in a week then I will in my life.

Apart from the bit about gassing your own people I think you are pretty much spot on with your summation.

Not even a close lousy second.

There was no vision except big money and the fossil fuel industry.

So you go to work using a skateboard? How will the people in the West Coast get to work? Also, are you outraged that all the liberal hypocrites waste a lot more money flying in their private jets, the water they waste in their pools and the expensive cars they drive?

As for courage; further isolating the US and causing serious concerns around the rest of the world smacks of DPRK tactics.

I think only the EPA and desperate people that could care less about cars or don't need cars care about this. Believe me, I care as well, but I don't make it my life's mission, I have more important things to do in my life, like make money.

What are the many more important issues, Todd, than the future of the planet?

ISIS, North Korea, other rouge states. etc etc take care of these things first, then move on to the things that arent an immediate threat.

ISIS, North Korea, other rouge states. etc etc take care of these things first, then move on to the things that arent an immediate threat.

An increase in flooding, droughts, hurricanes, rise of sea levels, soil erosion, wildfires, failing crops, ocean acidity - which will lead to many deaths, a destruction of infastructure, major impacts on the global economy, energy shortages... not to mention civil strife, conflict between states... do you not think this is worth tackling now before its too late?

This will impact far, far more lives than ISIS or the DPRKs sabre rattling. Trump's leaving the Paris Accord is an act of global terror.

Trump's leaving the Paris Accord is an act of global terror.

Alright, sheesh! dramatic much? flooding, hurricanes, etc etc are all manageable in one way or another. Contingency plans are set up to deal effectively with those problems when they occur or even prevent them from occurring.

Alright, sheesh! dramatic much?

The Arab Spring came about for a range of reasons, including climate change.

http://blogs.worldbank.org/arabvoices/climate-change-conflict-mena

maybe the backlash from Trumps pullout will get the ball rolling

Interesting point, FizzBit. Being a bit of a cynic, when I see all world leaders agreeing on something, I suspect they've agreed to do very little. And perhaps Wolfpack's point about the free market being better at getting results is right. Will we see individuals around the world competing to show how green they are? And will that be better than us all not having to do anything because our governments have decided to "tackle the problem" for us?

Alright, sheesh! dramatic much? flooding, hurricanes, etc etc are all manageable in one way or another. Contingency plans are set up to deal effectively with those problems when they occur or even prevent them from occurring.

What are the preventative plans, Todd?

Would it be FEMA? The disaster relief funds that Trump wants to slash?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/this-makes-no-sense-trump-proposes-cuts-to-disaster-relief-funds-to-pay-for-border-wall

Would it be NOAA who are facing cuts and no leaders?

http://www.snopes.com/2017/06/02/fema-noaa-hurricane-season/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/proposed-budget-for-commerce-would-cut-funds-for-noaa/2017/03/15/6c93d864-09ad-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html?utm_term=.039f51fc213b

No, I meant plans to actually prevent such disasters from occurring in the first place.

Not FEMA or the NOAA, you say. Ok, plans like signing up to a major initiative to tackle the causes of an increase in such extreme weather? The Paris Accord, perhaps?

I have more important things to do in my life, like make money.

How admirable. Screw the planet, screw other people. Me first. Anyway, that's what the current GOP and Trump are all about.

Also, are you outraged that all the liberal hypocrites waste a lot more money flying in their private jets, the water they waste in their pools and the expensive cars they drive?

You think the amount of pollutants by private jets of celebs in the name of climate change compares even slightly to the pollutants caused by big business and its executives traveling on private jets?

An inappropriately long sentence.

There are many people who would put more of themselves into this issue if there was less hypocrisy. Perhaps you idolize DiCaprio, Al Gore, etc. to the point where they can do no wrong. I see them as having zero science background, being constantly hypocritical, and making ridiculous claims (DiCaprio's about morality). These guys generate more CO2 in a week then I will in my life.

That's your personal issue. And I don't agree that people are spitefully ignoring climate change because a celebrity talks about it. I think one of the reasons why the younger generation is on board with this is because famous people have made this a talking point, and I wish more would do so, regardless of the size of their house.

And, as Switft_justice said:

You think the amount of pollutants by private jets of celebs in the name of climate change compares even slightly to the pollutants caused by big business and its executives traveling on private jets?

The anti-Hollywood angle is something invented by right-wing media to immediately discredit calls for helping the environment. The more you talk about that the less you are talking about large groups who are doing exponentially more harm to the environment.

"United States, the world's second biggest carbon emitter"

Amazing how China, the world's biggest carbon emitter, isn't required to reduce carbon emissions under this accord.   And, oh my...   US Withdraws from Paris Climate Accord: And People Are Gobbling Up the Propaganda:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOFhpoDY0As&t=2s

Oh my!    Gutfeld: Why the Paris accord is a terrible idea   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIJ_sxzUZuI&t=99s

Amazing how China, the world's biggest carbon emitter, isn't required to reduce carbon emissions under this accord. 

China's per capita level of CO2 emissions is less tha half of that of the US. I think that's pertinent, even if not the only thing to consider.

You think the amount of pollutants by private jets of celebs in the name of climate change compares even slightly to the pollutants caused by big business and its executives traveling on private jets?

Don't make excuses, these people are the worst hypocrites, they need to be quiet and hide under a rock and leave the rest of us alone, especially DiCarprio who like Gore are some of the biggest hypocrites when it comes to this annoying issue.

How admirable. Screw the planet, screw other people. Me first. Anyway, that's what the current GOP and Trump are all about.

The planet has been here over a billion, I repeat, a billion years, I seriously doubt that within the next hundred years we are all gloom and doom. The world will be fine, it's not Defcon 9 time.

Don't make excuses, these people are the worst hypocrites, they need to be quiet and hide under a rock and leave the rest of us alone, especially DiCarprio who like Gore are some of the biggest hypocrites when it comes to this annoying issue.

Its not an excuse, it's a fact. Are DiCaprio, Gore, et al. supposed to walk around to educate people on the fact that the climate is changing and humans contribute significantly to it?

Attack everything but the substantive points, or dismiss the them because of the messenger. We saw this in the article about Duterte joking about rape. Instead of coming out and immediately condemning Duterte, we saw conservatives dismiss the message that rape is not to be joke about because of who the messenger was. These posters declined to condemn Duterte until directly asked at least twice.

Attacking a messenger that is carrying a vital message is simply a way to obscure the real issue by focusing on the messenger.

Obfuscation: Yet another conservative argumentative tactic because they have zero with which to attack the substance of most issues.

I do agree that it's hypocritical to be riding around on massive yachts while preaching about climate change. However using that as an excuse to either deny that humans play a part in it, or to discredit the message is both a logical fallacy, and a dangerous action for our species.

If you look at the numbers, and compare private c02 numbers with industry, private generation is a very tiny number. It's industry that is causing the numbers we see. So while it would be better if these guys played their part, the fact is that riding a yacht isn't going to destroy the planet in and of itself. By convincing people to focus on individuals hypocrisy, industry has tricked us into not pointing fingers at them. Instead we have people arguing over whether it's even an issue (it is).

@Strangerland - I do get your point however in the United States (my country of origin) who is the biggest emitter of CO2, personal emissions are nearly 1/2. This does not reflect global numbers of course.

I think we just disagree on this issue with yachts etc. On the other hand I believe we agree what Trump did was shameful

Yes, hypocrisy is part of it but it's also about class resentment. Of course, someone like Dicaprio can afford to build a zero-carbon mansion or drive around a hybrid Porsche SUV but most people can barely pay the rent or put gas in their clunker. We shouldn't be taking our cues from Hollywood or benevolent billionaires. I'm as left as they get but I literally cringe the moment Dicap or Clooney or Jolie or Bono starts lecturing us from their gilded bubbles. And it's not just climate change--the Democratic Party's reliance on celebrity is a big reason why their message was so poorly received in the states that decided last year's election. It's simply dumb politics but no surprise from a party that's long been out of touch with working people's concerns:

"Clinton’s campaign was defined by its slick Internet presentation and its celebrity endorsements. But neither of these things probably helped her play in the most essential parts of the country, where impeccable web design and Hollywood glamor don’t go as far. Her Twitter account was often masterful, pulling in likes and retweets by the hundreds of thousands — but it turns out retweets aren’t votes. She appeared on the buzzworthy Comedy Central television show Broad City, delighting the show’s influential and connected fan base — but it turns out only a couple million people regularly watch that show. She won loud support from celebrities such as the actress and writer Lena Dunham and the musician Beyoncé — but it turns out that wealthy celebrities are not equipped to garner votes in an election defined by populist anger. Clinton’s campaign seemed fixated on appealing to precisely the educated liberal urbanites who were never going to vote for Trump in any scenario."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/10/hillary-clinton-lost-bernie-sanders-could-have-won/

@jcjapan - for me it is not about political party (I am not affiliated with either) nor is it about resentment (I could probably afford to buy a hybrid luxury car - but probably not fly in a private jet). It is more about the fact that if this is such a huge deal to them one would think they would practice what they preach.

Trump, by the way, is a HUGE CO2 emitter (perhaps more so than DiCaprio, Gore, etc.). In this issue (the Paris accord) I think Trump is outright wrong. I guess the only thing one can say is Trump does practice what he preaches and has for decades (that is emitting CO2 and caring little about the planet)

I think we just disagree on this issue with yachts etc.

I don't think we even really disagree with that - I think that it's hypocritical to be preaching about climate change while riding a yacht (I even said so in my post). My point is that letting the yacht issue get in the way of discussion about the actual problem is only in the best interests of those who don't want to solve the issue. For the rest of us, the energy we focus on discussing the yachts etc is energy that's not spent on solving the problem.

Strangerland - your point is well taken. For me it does not get in the way or take away from my feelings related to the actual problem (I believe it is a problem but in the heat of battle the issue becomes blown out of proportion - another topic altogether). I try to make efforts personally to combat damage to the environment and I also try to educate others. A small portion of my business is directly related to combating this issue.

Regardless I get what you are saying and I do understand and agree that the issue of hypocrisy gets politicized and that is not the angle from which I approach.

Enjoy the nice Sunday

As far as I can tell we're agreed. I'm just saying that class resentment has always been a force to be reckoned with in American politics and it's certainly a major factor in the GOP's successful efforts to cast doubt on the overwhelming scientific consensus. Feeding such animus in Appalachia and the industrially-gutted upper Midwest is made only too easy when numerous campaign ads are delivered by beautiful Hollywood stars who wouldn't know a real day's work if it walked up and bit them.

Mind you, such politics can be a force for good--look to the great achievements of LBJ, FDR, or god bless him Teddy Roosevelt. They all used class-based critiques successfully. The difference today is neither party is particularly interested in attacking the real malefactors of great wealth. It ain't Dicap & co. but their prominent voice in these debates isn't helping the cause.

Syria, Nicaragua, US - the rogue states

Yeah, we are a rogue state, unstable government, kill children, imprison political opponents, gas our people and hinder any political opposition. Yes, we are so much like Syria and Nicaragua. LOL

That's what makes it so amazing - that the US sees this thru the same point of view as those countries

That's what makes it so amazing - that the US sees this thru the same point of view as those countries

Actually, they don't.

Speaking of messaging, here's a long thread from Michael Sweeney that's relevant:

https://twitter.com/mtsw/status/870700352055554051