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Zelenskiy tells Russians to run for their lives from Ukraine offensive in south

57 Comments
By Andrea Shalal and Pavel Polityuk

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57 Comments

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It’s time to stop screwing around with this idiot.

19 ( +25 / -6 )

Putin will be pooping himself.

time to bring out the nuclear threats again.

2 ( +20 / -18 )

Delusional,when Russian are pounding, Ukraine into stone age,they are pounding Mykolaiv like they did Marioupol,it near Kherson

-7 ( +16 / -23 )

It’s time to stop screwing around with this idiot.

Indeed. Time to kick some Russian ass all the way back to Russia.

0 ( +21 / -21 )

Happy hunting, Ukraine!

Drive the barbarians OUT!

5 ( +24 / -19 )

One wonders how Ukraine is launching counter attacks when according to the Russians, they have destroyed more HMARS systems than have actually been delivered! Soviet, er… “Russian” ingenuity!

Turns out,…. They were plywood mock-ups that the Russians expended a Kalibar each on.

But don’t worry, brave Orc warriors; the mighty Black Sea “fleet” is on the way! (Note: arrival times may vary depending on weather, sobriety, the presence of anti-ship missiles and “buoyancy.” Please contact your local fleet commander for details.)

6 ( +23 / -17 )

"If they want to survive, it's time for the Russian military to run away. Go home," 

Yes!

You Russian mass murdering Mob!

Go home, so that the world can live again in peace.

Nobody needs your war aggression, mass murdering innocent people, destroying their families, homes and lives, and raping young Girls.

Nobody needs and nobody wants you anymore Russia!

7 ( +25 / -18 )

Nemo,everyone knows the Himars are in Mykolaiv, because Ukrainain Collaborators told the Russian,they were there

-11 ( +7 / -18 )

"If they want to survive, it's time for the Russian military to run away. Go home."

I see just one "minor" problem. With all the Russian ingenuity - do they know where to go?

I mean, they can't even find their way thru a mine field - oops, forgot, that was dedicated mine sweeping.

And constructing pontoon bridges seems to be another failed project, besides a couple of other things.

I suggest Ukrainian forces show them their way out, the sooner, the better!

4 ( +20 / -16 )

Yrral

Nemo,everyone knows the Himars are in Mykolaiv, because Ukrainain Collaborators told the Russian,they were there.

Then they will be safe because Russian artillery is so inaccurate. ;-) Seriously though, the thing about HIMARS is that they are mobile. You don't keep them in one place for long.

1 ( +14 / -13 )

Zelensky is and has been a real inspiration, and so is his Administration. I pray for the best for him and his country. They are the real fighters.

7 ( +23 / -16 )

No one should tolerate Vermin in their house. Vermin should be eliminated asap.

9 ( +21 / -12 )

Ukrainain Collaborators told the Russian

These collaborators should check their cars before driving

5 ( +16 / -11 )

Make sure you save one of those American made bombs for Putin.

5 ( +18 / -13 )

No matter how many months of combat training Russians get, they just cannot get their logistics straight.

5 ( +17 / -12 )

Can’t wait to here the rationalizations from the Putin fanboys if this counter offensive succeeds.

”Another brilliant goodwill gesture”

”Kherson was an inspired feint to draw forces away from Donbas, we didn’t really want it anyway”

1 ( +15 / -14 )

Can’t wait to here the rationalizations from the Putin fanboys if this counter offensive succeeds.

they’ll disappear & we won’t hear from them on anything Ukraine related

2 ( +14 / -12 )

Can’t wait to here the rationalizations from the Putin fanboys if this counter offensive succeeds.

”It’s not a ‘retreat’, it’s a ‘Special Military Repositioning’.”

4 ( +15 / -11 )

One wonders how Ukraine is launching counter attacks when according to the Russians, they have destroyed more HMARS systems than have actually been delivered! Soviet, er… “Russian” ingenuity!

the Russians don't claim to have taken out all the HIMARS. The fascists are able to roll one or two out in the middle of the night and hit cities and towns. And of course the largest nuclear power plant in Europe. Not able to hit military targets because the Russians are able to determine the approx location the strikes are coming from and go hunting. BTW do you know each HIMARs shell costs about US$130 000?

Finally, speaking of Soviet er... "Russian" ingenuity, rocket artillery was invtented in the Soviet Union during the war. The systems Ukraine had were superior to HIMARs as are the rocket artillery systems the Russians have. They are just as accurate but have a greater range. The thing is, the Russians don't want to damage the civilian infrastructure more than they have to because they are going to annex it. They have been doing an absolutely phenomenal job rebuilding Mariupol but still takes time and resources.

-11 ( +10 / -21 )

The thing is, the Russians don't want to damage the civilian infrastructure more than they have to because they are going to annex it. 

If this is not a land grab, then what would a land grab look like in your opinion?

2 ( +13 / -11 )

Can’t wait to here the rationalizations from the Putin fanboys if this counter offensive succeeds.

It's already failed with massive Ukrainian losses in both men and equipment. The forces which were around Odessa have been rushed into position around Nikolayev due to the forces which were around Nikolayev being decimated in one day.

-5 ( +10 / -15 )

It's already failed with massive Ukrainian losses in both men and equipment. 

Axel, it sounds like you are consuming Russian propaganda pretty uncritically. Maybe let’s just wait and see how this plays out? Nobody on this board really knows the situation on the ground at this point.

3 ( +14 / -11 )

It is hard to know who to believe, but given Zelenskyy's record of telling the truth, and Putin's record of lying, I am cautiously optimistic that when Zelenskyy says they are winning, then they are.

3 ( +15 / -12 )

Axel,

still spreading fake news, Russian propaganda?

*The thing is, the Russians don't want to damage the civilian infrastructure more than they have to because they are going to annex it. They have been doing an absolutely phenomenal job rebuilding Mariupol but still takes time and resources.*

Have you actually seen pictures of Ukrainian cities / villages "liberated" by Russians? Yeah, they are rebuilding the theater in Mariupol, guess you, too, know why. It was all over the news. Yes, they are dismantling damaged buildings and remove the rubble, including dead bodies buried under it to erase their atrocities. People in Mariupol have little to no access to clean drinking water and other daily necessities! And this is what the "liberation" looks like!

3 ( +16 / -13 )

The much awaited "counter offensive" is a political move to show some success to the western powers dumping billions into a corrupt regime. The results will be no different to all the other Ukrainian "offensives".

Step one.. Ukraine make a few km advance into a Russian holding area with a huge media fanfare.

Step two.... Russian forces reinforce the area and retake the lost ground to media silence.

Zoom out and look at the big picture... The battle is in the Dombas. Its a one way street, Ukrainians fighting a very brave but futile battle. The area of the "counter offensive" is just Russian troops holding Ukraine forces in place.

Come back in a month and lets see the results.

-7 ( +12 / -19 )

If this is not a land grab, then what would a land grab look like in your opinion?

There is absolutely no question the vast majority of the population in the east and south of the country would prefer to be annexed by Russia rather than stay part of the Ukraine. Before the coup it may not have been the case but NATO and the imperialist powers had to keep pushing. Far from breaking Russia up and "liberating" the oil, gas and etc, they have made Russia stronger and are paying literally more than they can afford for the oil, gas and etc.

Have you actually seen pictures of Ukrainian cities / villages "liberated" by Russians?

Yes. Mariupol is the poster child for the rebuilding effort but the same thing is going happening on a smaller scale all over the liberated territories.

As far as I know, Azov Battlation Nasties are going to be put on public trial. No mercy at all for them. As for the many 1000s of Ukrainian regular army POWs, the mothers, wives and GFs are publicly demanding the Russians don't release them back to Ukraine until the war is over.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

Thank God the Russians have those Iranian-made drones to provide CAS. (Sees reports that they don’t work and the Russians are unsatisfied.) Dooh!

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Axel,

sorry, but this is so off the wall. Do you really believe in what you're writing here:

Have you actually seen pictures of Ukrainian cities / villages "liberated" by Russians?

*Yes. Mariupol is the poster child for the rebuilding effort but the same thing is going happening on a smaller scale all over the liberated territories.*

*As far as I know, Azov Battlation Nasties are going to be put on public trial. No mercy at all for them. As for the many 1000s of Ukrainian regular army POWs, the mothers, *wives and GFs are publicly demanding the Russians don't release them back to Ukraine until the war is over.

And if so, where did you get this information? Moskovskij Komsomolets, Izvestia, Rossiyskaya Gazeta?

Or maybe some insider information, some news from people you actually talk to?

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Axel

If this is not a land grab, then what would a land grab look like in your opinion?

There is absolutely no question the vast majority of the population in the east and south of the country would prefer to be annexed by Russia rather than stay part of the Ukraine.

Not true. But even if it were, Ukraine is a sovereign nation. You can't just invade and take over.

Before the coup it may not have been the case but NATO and the imperialist powers had to keep pushing. 

NATO is not involved. The imperialist power here is Russia.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

And if so, where did you get this information? Moskovskij Komsomolets, Izvestia, Rossiyskaya Gazeta?

I got the info about Azov Battalion Nasties being put on public trial via western MSM.

I got the info about the phenomenal rebuilding of Mariupol via You Tube videos, mostly without any commentary. Just someone driving around a recording while doing it and some drone footage which may have come from official Russian state sources.

I got the info about the mothers, wives and GFs of Ukrainian regular army POWs demanding the Russians don't release them back to Ukraine until the war is over via video's with translation mostly on Telegram. I guess the translation could be wrong but no one has claimed it is.

Is that acceptable for you? Where do you get your info from?

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

Axel,

I'll try to give you a short answer:

talking directly to the people who live in those affected areas (MSN, messenger services, etc).

And I consider them pretty trustworthy. By the way, not just to people in Ukraine, but also a few who "live on the other side of the fence". They all confirm what the so-called "Western media" says.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

This whole war has been pointless. Why do the Russians even care? Ukraine did nothing wrong. The West should just go in and bomb the Russians and get it over with in a day. Russia is never going to live up to their threat of nuclear bombs.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Not true. But even if it were, Ukraine is a sovereign nation. You can't just invade and take over.

Don't Ukrainians have the right to self determination? Why is it ok for Albanians in Kosovo but not Ukrainians? And is it ok for NATO powers to openly, proudly, unabashedly, support and extra constitutional coup against the democratically elected government of the Ukraine? Which is precisely what led to all of this.

NATO is not involved. The imperialist power here is Russia.

God have mercy..... Now I've heard it all.

The bottom line is, the imperialist powers used their 'ultra right' (to put it politely) lackeys in Ukraine to make it so the Russians had no choice but to militarily move to liberate the Ukraine. The imperialist power thought their shock and awe economic war would cripple Russia with the end goal of breaking it up and liberating all the vital commodities of Russia.

Russia isn't collapsing economically or any other way. It's looking very ominous for the EU and then for the nation states of Europe with the exception of Serbia and possibly Hungary.

-5 ( +10 / -15 )

It’s time to stop screwing around with this idiot.

you are right. The comedian is in charge of Europe’s most corrupt country, rated 123 most corrupt in the world, who uses off-shore bank accounts, time is up. He forces untrained males, 18-60 to get slaughtered by one of the most professional armies in the world, abuses EU politions for not giving enough money and weapons even thought many Europeans will die this winter because he won’t make a diplomatic solution…he is either corrupt or an idiot. He has banned opposition political parties, many imprisoned, tortured or dead. He openly endorses Neo-Nazis and the national hero is Stephan Bandera. He has banned all independent media. Destroyed all Russian books, art, culture, Russian language in schools and passed a law that people can get money if they tell the secret services about Ukrainian people who speak Russian. Before Russia came to the rescue, 14000 Donbass civilians were murdered since the illegal US-backed coup in the Maiden in 2014. Any Ukrainians with Russian passports can be deported and all assets confiscated, if they still exist as he is using sophisticated western weapons to bomb Russian speaking Ukrainian villages. He is also using banned cluster bombs to disperse land mines over Donbass villages aimed to maim civilians. Now he is bombing Europe’s largest nuclear power plant near Donbass and Russia. Nice guy.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

Europe is in for a very cold winter this year.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

The long-awaited Ukrainian summer offensive appears to have petered out even faster than the Ardennes Offensive that preceded the ultimate German collapse in WWII.

Ukraine’s much-heralded “counter-offensive” in Kherson has “failed miserably,” the Russian Defense Ministry insisted on Monday, listing estimated losses suffered by Kiev during the operation. Ukrainian forces had attempted to attack in three directions on orders of President Vladimir Zelensky but made no gains, Moscow explained.

Russian troops caused “great losses” to the Ukrainian attackers during the day’s battles, a statement read. Kiev saw 26 tanks, 23 armored fighting vehicles, nine more armored vehicles, and two SU-25 ground-attack jets destroyed, while more than 560 troops were lost, according to the summary.

Earlier in the day, the Ukrainian outlet Suspilne quoted Southern Command spokesperson Natalia Humeniuk as saying that “offensive actions in various directions” had begun, “including in the Kherson region.” She offered no details, however, saying only that “any military operation needs silence.”

By Monday evening, however, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine mentioned only a Russian attack near the village of Potemkino.

Kiev has been talking about a “Kherson counteroffensive” all summer, while soliciting more weapons and ammunition from its Western backers. In a video address to the people on Sunday, Zelensky vowed that “Ukraine will return” to Donbass – as well as Kharkov, Zaporozhye, Kherson and “definitely to Crimea.”

If WWII history is a reasonable guide, a new Russian offensive should be gearing up right about now. It’s not even autumn yet and already the European nations are observably beginning to panic.

-4 ( +8 / -12 )

Europe is in for a very cold winter this year.

And Russian soldiers and mercenaries are murdering and raping innocent Ukrainians as Putin grows wealthier. While a huge nuclear power plant is put at risk by Putin's incompetent, invading hordes. Make Putin's various armies go home, and let the world sort out energy and other issues after that.

3 ( +13 / -10 )

If WWII history is a reasonable guide, a new Russian offensive should be gearing up right about now. It’s not even autumn yet and already the European nations are observably beginning to panic.

With what personnel? Even with recruitment bonuses at historic levels, the Russians rely on Mercenaries, criminals and Chechens. Even calling for an increase in overall size is unlikely to lead to an expansion in combat capability as it will come from short term conscription and the training units themselves have suffered casualties as a result of being sent to plug gaps in the Russian forces.

With what equipment? The Black Sea "Fleet" is in a defensive crouch on the Easter side out of missile range. 2 of it's largest ships have been sunk. The Russians are down about 2,000 "front line" tanks with the current annual production capacity of um... zero. They are now pulling obsolete (even by Russian standards) T-62s out of mothballs. The Russian Air Farce has proven itself incapable of SEAD or penetration - so much so that the Russians are buying drones from Iran that interestingly enough, don't work in a contested environment. Russian "Precison" (again, my Russian standards) is being depleted and cannot be replaced as they rely on Western parts now embargoed.

With what "leadership"? The Generals sent to Ukraine all seem to die or get fired.

The comparison to the Ardens Offensive AKA the battle of the bulge is valid only in that the Russian army is spent as a force, acting on bad strategy on the orders of a strategic moron who is also nuts. Just like the Germans. So well done there....

And I see no evidence of panic in W. European Capitals. What I do see is a determination that Russian expansionism must fail.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

gintonic

NATO not involved....? Now that's surely jesting.

Nope. Which NATO troops are you talking about? They aren't in Ukraine.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

VZ is a dab hand at the media war. Unfortunately looks like his outnumbered and outgunned troops can't turn his words into deeds.

However much money etc Ukraine's "allies" send, still looks like Russia are on top.

In the end much of the "aid" will be wasted/stolen/destroyed with no real benefit to Ukrainian people.

Sad state of affairs.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Axel

Not true. But even if it were, Ukraine is a sovereign nation. You can't just invade and take over.

Don't Ukrainians have the right to self determination?

Sure. But it's got absolutely nothing to do with Russia.

NATO is not involved. The imperialist power here is Russia.

God have mercy..... Now I've heard it all.

OK, prove that NATO is involved. There are no NATO troops in Ukraine.

The bottom line is, the imperialist powers used their 'ultra right' (to put it politely) lackeys in Ukraine

By imperialist powers, I take it you are referring to the US / Europe. They didn nothing of the sort. BTW what were these "ulta-right" lackeys actually doing? What are you accusing them of?

to make it so the Russians had no choice but to militarily move to liberate the Ukraine. 

No choice? Putin's invasion is an imperialistic land grab! Of course they had a choice.

5 ( +13 / -8 )

We keep hearing Ukraine, it's supporters, the western news go on and on about "where" is Russia going to get troops.

Did they suddenly develop amnesia?

Russia had a 2 million man army of which over 1 million are generally soldiers.

And it has a reserve force of 2 million more.

Even if the Russian losses are as high as Ukraine claims.

Russia can still throw far more troops into this war.

Remember throwing troops and just over overwhelming the enemy despite massive losses isn't something Russia hasn't done before and won.

So the idea Russia will run out of troops is wishful thinking.

As so many like to remind us Putin is crazy so expect the crazy man to send more troops as he has plenty in reserve.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

Rodney,

let me provide you with some facts:

in 2015 Minsk II was signed and Russia agreed that the territories of Donetsk and Luhansk should return to Ukraine, which in turn should grant a broad autonomy to the two oblasts of Donetsk and Luhansk. But it was never implemented because of differing opinions.

Now to your statement of "14.000 Donbas civilians murdered since Maidan":

The UN estimates that 10,900 victims were soldiers, of whom 4,400 were Ukrainians and 6,500 pro-Russian combatants of or on behalf of the separatist pseudo-republics. Civilian victims were between 3,400 and 3,500. 

So, once again, please avoid spreading false information.

I still agree that even one person killed in war is one too many!

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Come back in a month and lets see the results.

A month? Not 6?

How long longer does this ‘simple’ ‘special military operation’ need?

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Antique,

Russia had a 2 million man army of which over 1 million are generally soldiers.

And it has a reserve force of 2 million more.

According to reliable sites the Russian Army's manpower is roughly 1.35 million, including reserve troops.

Quite some difference to what you like to quote (but maybe you can give me better sources?).

Besides this, why is Putin recruiting mercenaries, prisoners, etc if he has (according to your statement) more than 2 million reservists? Using those others as deplorable canon fodder?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Antiquesaving

We keep hearing Ukraine, it's supporters, the western news go on and on about "where" is Russia going to get troops.

Did they suddenly develop amnesia?

Russia had a 2 million man army of which over 1 million are generally soldiers.

And it has a reserve force of 2 million more.

Even if the Russian losses are as high as Ukraine claims.

Russia can still throw far more troops into this war.

Only if they declare war and go for a full mobilization, which Putin is unwilling to do due to the fallout that it will have in Russia.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

The first one who changes the strategy to an asymmetric one , has a chance of winning that war. Afghanistan or the Taliban there, showed that both war machineries, Russian or US, are technologically sophisticated or outnumbering, but can easily be defeated and the enemy wiped out of the country without remains. Those old-style battles the Russians and Ukrainians rely on, with front lines, artillery and ground troops in easily to preempted estimates of position, size, equipment and moving direction, that won’t work well for any of them. It’s quite outdated and an attempt like out of long bygone centuries.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

2020hindsights

Only if they declare war and go for a full mobilization, which Putin is unwilling to do due to the fallout that it will have in Russia.

Err, what? Last thing I checked, the Russian govnmt did NOT declare war, and the force committed to the SMO is a small expeditionary force plus the Donez militia.

Where do you get your news from? Got any references?

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Now we come to can Ukraine and the USA sustain the movement?

Well these 2 articles from the WSJ are interesting.

One points to Russia making as much if not more from oil and gas as before sanctions and giving Russia less dependency of selling gas to the west.

Note Russia just cut gas off to France for not paying it's bills.

The other is on how the USA military is worried as it's stockpiles of weapons are being depleted.

Interesting to note, people keep pointing out the fact USA weapons are more advanced, probably but that also translates to more complicated, longer to replace, more maintenance. As simpler easy to maintain and greater numbers was what prevailed in the last great European war.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-confounds-the-west-by-recapturing-its-oil-riches-11661781928

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/ukraine-war-depleting-u-s-ammunition-stockpiles-sparking-pentagon-concern-11661792188

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

the European nations are observably beginning to panic.

If true that would show European nations and their respective leaders have messed up the last few decades by putting too much faith and too many resources in the fossil economy, not sufficiently diversifying and finding alternative ways to generate electricity, building substandard buildings homes and transportation systems, along with the biggest mess-up of all, which has been trusting a psychopath likePutin and thinking Russia could ever be a reliable partner. European nations, like most others around the world including the BRICS and Japan, need a new generation of leadership, leaders who realize the past does not have to be duplicated, and that progress away from the past is needed. What is needed throughout the word are leaders who do not think 'progress' is a pejorative term.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Europe’s most corrupt country, rated 123 most corrupt in the world

Not most corrupt: russia comes in at 136th.

https://www.transparency.org/en/countries/russia

off-shore bank accounts

Putin is much more clever, he puts his accounts in the names of his 'inner circle'.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/panama-papers-money-hidden-offshore

He forces untrained males, 18-60 to get slaughtered by one of the most professional armies in the world

Leaving aside the blooper about 'one of the most professional armies' - even russia has admitted using teenage conscripts even though russia is not under attack.

many Europeans will die this winter because he won’t make a diplomatic solution

Many Ukrainians and russians have died, are dying and will die because Putin launched an illegal land grab.

he is either corrupt or an idiot

Perfect description of Mad Vlad of the Long Table. And he's both.

He has banned opposition political parties

There'a a war on. The country is being invaded. You seriously expect pro-enemy elements to be left free to aid the enemy from the inside?

He openly endorses Neo-Nazis and the national hero is Stephan Bandera

The 'neo-nazi' thing appears to be a Lavrovism, ie project onto the enemy that which most describes your own stance, in the hope that folk won't notice.

Zelensky on Bandera; Stepan Bandera is a hero for a certain part of Ukrainians, and this is a normal and cool thing. He was one of those who defended the freedom of Ukraine. But I think that when we name so many streets, bridges by the same name, this is not quite right,".... this is not about Stepan Bandera. .... we should remember modern day heroes, the heroes of art, the heroes of literature, all heroes of Ukraine. Why aren't we naming [streets] by their names - the heroes who unite Ukraine today ? There is such a tension in society that we must do everything possible to unite Ukraine. I was once asked why wasn't any street named after Andriy Shevchenko [Ukrainian football star] ? He is a hero for me

https://www.lecanardrépublicain.net/IMG/article_PDF/Volodymyr-Zelensky-on-Stepan-Bandera-He-was-one-of-those_a1006.pdf

He has banned all independent media

No, he took off the air three broadcasters that were pro-russian. The country is at war, remember. And take a look at the state of 'independent media' in Russia, where simply calling the war a war can get you 15 years in prison.

https://theconversation.com/russias-disappearing-independent-media-why-they-closed-178590

Destroyed all Russian books, art, culture, Russian language

The law restricting the import of books from russia (not books in russian, there's a difference) was originally passed in 2016, long before Zelensky became president. A follow-up law passed this year after the invasion bans any imports of all book and publishing production from the Russian Federation and Belarus, alongside the Ukrainian territories under Russian occupation. The country is under attack, remember.

passed a law that people can get money if they tell the secret services about Ukrainian people who speak Russian

I wonder if anyone has told the secret service that Zelensky is a Russian speaker?

he is using sophisticated western weapons to bomb Russian speaking Ukrainian villages

He is using sophisticated western weapons to bomb Russian military occupying Ukrainian villages. Glad you admit they are Ukrainian villages.

russian use of cluster bombs in Ukraine is well documented. All I could find on Ukrainian use of cluster bombs was alleged use.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Sven Asai

Those old-style battles the Russians and Ukrainians rely on, with front lines, artillery and ground troops in easily to preempted estimates of position, size, equipment and moving direction, that won’t work well for any of them. It’s quite outdated and an attempt like out of long bygone centuries.

It seems you forget this is not a US-style invasion into a foreign land like Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and many other experienced, but rather a local conflict with the local population having deep historical and demographic connections with each other. So there is no way the Russians would plow the area nilly willy from the air, like the US did in Serbia. Apples and oranges!

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

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