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© Copyright 2024 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.Zelenskyy presses U.S. military leaders to let Ukraine strike deeper in Russia
By TARA COPP RAMSTEIN AIR BASE, Germany©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
71 Comments
Banthu
Feb 2022: Just give us ammo and we can defeat Russia
March 2022: Just give us Stingers and we can defeat Russia
...billions and billions later
December 2023: Just give us F16s and we can defeat Russia.
September 2024: Just give us authorization to use your missiles to attack Russian cities (which would be an act of war under international law) and we can defeat Russia.
Zelensky always claims to be one notch away from victory, and the Western media is helping him with that narrative by constantly claiming that Russia is on the brink of collapse and all NATO needs to do is ramp up the war one more notch and Russia will collapse.
They've been lying the whole time. Russia will win this and we're just prolonging the suffering, especially among civilians in Ukraine, and now civilians in Kursk.
Russia will respond by putting nukes in Cuba and/or Venezuela
JJE
They/he keeps feeding us this false equivalency:
He sells it as a big ‘disadvantage’ that his regime is not allowed to strike Russia’s rear operational-strategic depth, but it's pertinent to observe that Ukraine’s own rear depth lies in NATO territory, in Poland, Germany, Romania, etc. Russia does not strike those either, so it really is a fair game, not a disadvantage. If Ukraine wants to strike Russia’s rear logistics, then so should Russia be able to strike Reszow base where Ukraine stages its own supplies—to keep things fair and honest.
Fairs fair.
TaiwanIsNotChina
With Ukraine at war for its very independence, it must be able to strike Russia wherever the terrorism comes from at a minimum.
TaiwanIsNotChina
There was some truth in that. If the land bridge had been removed from terrorist Russian control this war would have been over.
TaiwanIsNotChina
War Criminal Putin knows Cuba won't happen as it would unravel the compromise from the Cuban Missile Crisis and putting them in Venezuela is meaningless. Only the Russian animals are moving nukes around.
Underworld
JJE
What are you talking about? Poland, Germany, Romania, etc. do not have any troops in this war, nor have they declared war with Russia.
Nope. Ultimately those supplies originate in the US, so should Russia be allowed to strike armaments factories in the US?
JJE
Essentially, what the client regime is saying is: strikes on Russia are A-OK, they will hide behind the skirt of NATO and pretend Russia will subscribe to his version of events and won't hit back.
Moscow will hit back. Start something, get hit.
JJE
Ukraine had independence in 1991. Lost it in 2014.
The land bridge is controlled by decent Donbass people.
(they won't be 'clearing out Crimea' anytime soon - ask the above folk).
TaiwanIsNotChina
Indeed: Russia strikes NATO under any circumstances and they will get hit like they haven't experienced.
Nope: every country in the world continues to recognize the Zelenskyy government. Even Russia has only pulled their embassy.
Underworld
JJE
Who's hiding? Russia are striking civilians in Ukraine already, in case you didn't notice.
They are already targeting civilians and energy infrastructure. It doesn't get worse.
JJE
Talking about all the supplies for Kyiv-regime coming through NATO territory - Poland, Germany and Romania. That is their strategic rear, until now, unhindered by missile strikes.
If the sovereignty of the Russian Federation is threatened, and that threat becomes a clear and present danger, action will be taken.
JJE
If they'd shifted course after the controversial events in 2014, stopped marches with a certain hand and handed over the Odessa burning offenders - this could have been sorted out. Not to mention respecting the pre-2014 electoral mandate of their own country.
Make no mistake - this is a war of the Russian Federation against the Kyiv-regime. Millions of Ukrainians agree.
ok1517
Ukraine has to receive long range weapons to defend the Russian aggressors on their own turf.
Destroy the Russian bases of those bombers killing Ukrainian civilians day by day!
Take the war to where it comes from - it's called forward defense and always worked.
Stop hesitating, stop considering! Just do it!
Ukraine prevails
(almost 3 years already - what happened to that 3-day-limited operation?)
JJE
Larger point is:
The Kyiv-regime understands their only way out of this thing is to draw NATO in. That is precisely the cheeky little game going on.
The tail wags the dog is what is happening here.
TaiwanIsNotChina
So basically as long as they kept corrupt Russian nonsense in charge of their country. That is contrary to independence. Also doesn't explain why Russia thinks it can now demand total surrender and annexation.
Yes it is a War of Aggression started by Russia. Why can't Putin just make it official?
ok1517
JJE,
ever heard of the Budapest Memorandum?
And how about this one (Minsk agreement):
" Putin's decision in 2022 to recognize the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics killed off the Minsk agreements."
To make it even shorter:
any treaty or agreement made with Russia's Putain ain't worth the paper it is written on.
Ukraine prevails!
Underworld
JJE
The result of the Maidan protest: a peaceful abdication of the presidency as Yanukovych fled to Russia, was a good thing. But Putin couldn't have the power of the people getting their way, so he invaded in Crimea and the Donbas.
Millions of Ukrainians agree that Putin's war is against the civilians of Ukraine.
JJE
Look at the photos. Everyone has long faces. Longest are Austin and the German guy.
They are clearly suffering from buyer's remorse. Not a smile or a hug between them. Classic case of believing one's own propaganda.
JJE
Yanukovych fled to Russia. The representatives of Kyiv also fled Donetsk and Lugansk.
QED
Underworld
JJE
When the Russians piled into Donetsk and Lugansk.
Donetsk and Lugansk will be liberated.
TaiwanIsNotChina
These events did not happen at the same time and the events in Donetsk and Luhansk were the result of illegal Russian invasion. The international community is under no obligation to play Russia's games.
TaiwanIsNotChina
No, that would be you feeding us false equivalencies.
Bombers aren't flying out of Reszow to deliver their payloads. That is what Ukraine has a right to strike in Russia.
JJE
Pavlohrad gets a mention in this article. When Pokrovsk falls, the open plains for a hundred clicks of flat farmland and fields are open till the bank of the Dnieper. Look at a map.
Then look at the Kursk salient, divide that by total territory of the RF, add a point for 'egg on Putin's face', subtract 100 for failing to reach Kurchatov and the power plant, add 2 points for the headlines despite that, subtract 110 for sacrificing the operational reserves, add 1 for egg on the face (again). Then crunch the maps on the Eastern Front and look at the equation.
While some territory is important, the devil is in the detail: RFAF goal has/is/will be grind down the military manpower of AFU. This means keeping the Loss Exchange Ratio in an unsustainable general figure.
Putin and Zelensky bizarrely agree on this.
TokyoLiving
So far in the stupid and failed incursion of the kyiv regime into the Kursk region, 10,400 Ukrainian troops have lost their lives..
In this week from August 31 to September 6, the kyiv regime has lost 16,215 Ukrainian troops..
Russia is getting closer to PROKROVSK every day, the Ukrainian troops are literally fleeing, time is running out for the kyiv regime...
TokyoLiving
With the help of Rambo, Rocky, the Avengers and the Biker Mice from Mars, we will surely achieve it...
Send a letter to Kishida so that Japan can send help, Goku and Vegeta will be of great help..
Yeeeeeeeeyyyy!!!!..
LOOOOOOOOL
Mr Kipling
So the Ukraine killed or captured more than twice as many Russians that were in the area. Magic? Or is Zelenskyy doing his usual data reversal and 6,000 Ukrainians have died in Kursk for those 500miles of forest and farmland?
Eastmann
ok1514 welcome back online.
have a quick look at the map.is this how UA prevails?
Underworld
Mr Kipling
Zelenskyy said Ukraine's surprise assault inside Russia’s Kursk region has led to the capture of about 1,300 square kilometers (500 square miles) of Russian territory and killed or injured about 6,000 Russian soldiers.
No. Russia have redeployed 60,000 troops to the area.
Eastmann
2020hindsights.no story from Kamal corner to discuss today here so you are back as russian specialist and factchecker?
things are getting more clear.
Kiev junta loosing real support from west say Germany will reduce their help and weapons supplies.Scholz may be not smarttest kid from the block but one thing is sure-he is not an idiot as see results of latest elections in Germany so must do something about that.
Even NATO wunderwaffen did not help to win over Russia even F16...possibly UA Patriot artillery need get more proper training to understand that russians have no F16 in their fleet...for next time.
Some 600+souls trained for dron war are gone as well and many Swedes are going back home in body bags.
Do you call this a prevailing in the conflict?while other side just literally pausing and taking tactical break?
Mr Kipling
NATO doesn't want a war with Russia. Russia also doesn't want a (non proxy) war with NATO. Europe really doesn't want a war with Russia.
Putin has promised retaliation for NATO supplied long range munitions used in Russia. They will know where these missile came from. If it is a German supplied missile, then probably a German airbase would be on the receiving end of some Russian ordinance. The big question would then be NATOs response. Would they retaliate in kind? Those thinking yes had better remember the Russian military know that they have to get their short range tactical nukes off first. Their war games prepare and practice this on a regular basis.
Ukraine just isn't that important to the US, NATO and especially Europe.
BertieWooster
Why doesn't the US just join the fray and do an Iraq on Russia? They may as well.
Eastmann
Mr Kipiling
many of us know that territory of UA is used by NATO as battlefield in their proxy war against Russia.its more than obvious after more than decade...
Eastmann
btw if we are talking about Zelensky...who is he?
illegal president who is out of term.suppose to Ukrainian one but who speaks Russian better...and Jiddish even better than Ukrainian...?
some ex actor from reality show wearing green clothes and begging around the world about...everything?bad guys even saying that he is a drug user...?
why should we care about his words at all?
TaiwanIsNotChina
No, with the help of ATACMS, kid.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Why wouldn't they? Do you think this is some kind of game for Grandmaster Putin to play? He will be facing a billion people in the next match.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Yes but enough about the violence on the peaceful protestors. The question is was there any violence on the other side? Still waiting for some evidence of that.
quercetum
Zelenskyy does not need to ask the US for permission to be allowed to apply his fighting strategy. He’s not a puppet.
burgers and beers
Yes but enough about the violence on the peaceful protestors. The question is was there any violence on the other side? Still waiting for some evidence of that.
13 police officers and many peaceful protesters were killed in the violent Maidan coup by the right wing extremists supported by western intelligence services. Just because you selectively choose not to see it, doesnt mean evidence is not there, son.
TaiwanIsNotChina
We're down to 13 casualties now. In a nation of 44 million. My my my, such violence.
Antiquesaving
Canada doesn't have anything and has depleted its own military to the point of that if a developing country.
New vehicles to Ukraine taken from those promised for 5 years to its military now using pick-up trucks to plug the gap.
The military is 15,000 below the minimum requirements 88,000 members in 1989 (population 26 million) now 60,000 members (near 40 million population).
The navy cancelled it commitment to west Africa patrols due to lack of personnel (ship 40% understaffed) reenlistment is at an all time low recruitment at a loss.
Use jets, used helicopters use submarines.
No money for basic training.
All this because Canada has thrown away billions on Ukraine.
And many other NATO countries are doing the same.
They say Russia, China are dangerous but now many NATO members have depleted even cannibalized their own militaries to the point of them being near incapable of defending themselves.
If Russia and China are really a threat then stop wasting money on Ukraine and its corruption and start spending on our own military and rebuild our own defense capabilities.
Underworld
burgers and beers
The peaceful protesters were beaten and killed by the Berkut Special Forces.
Western intelligence services were not involved
JJE
Debating spilt milk won't save the Kyiv regime or their beleaguered forces.
A shuffle of the cabinet won't pull the chestnut out of the raging bonfire.
The bets have been taken and the chips are all down.
Should have taken Minsk-Belarus-Istanbul. No one is subscribing to the formula.
Important to observe Minsk would have kept Donbass in a federated Ukraine. Hollande, Merkel and others have confessed the ulterior motive. Putin tried 8 years of active diplomacy. Trust has been broken.
Now it is down to the battlefield.
Eastmann
2020hindsights
Western intelligence services were not involved
PROVE IT
Eastmann
2020hindsights
The peaceful protesters were beaten and killed by the Berkut Special Forces.
PROVE IT
I was there during maidan as I have spent some time in Kiev in 2014.possibly you know better than me than?
Underworld
Eastmann
Indeed, it seems I do.
Underworld
JJE
It was none of Putin's business, but Russia broke the Minsk agreements as soon as they were signed.
JJE
Was it Washington's business then?
TaiwanIsNotChina
Putin torpedoed Minsk and the Istanbul deal was laughable even if true.
Yeah, it is a shame Russia torpedoed it.
There is no point in placating liars and war criminals.
JJE
Still no answer to the above question.
Antiquesaving
Not according to Angela Merkel, she publicly stated that Minsk was a delaying tactic to give Ukraine time to rearm.
Now tell us Merkel is lying!
ClippetyClop
As usual, this is irrelevant to Russia breaking the Minsk agreements.
And break them it did in a rather large way when it invaded and annexed the Donbas.
"Minsk peace deal no longer exists, there is nothing to fulfill," - Putin
Rather typical of you to excuse an invading nation for wrecking regional peace. But I'm sure you can make it all about America if you try.
Eastmann
2020hindsights
possibly you live in your own world than.
i am witness that maidan was a violent coup.there was no peaceful civilian crowd,all was organized by west namely by USA as they have spent a lot of money to bring instability and conflict next to Russia.
there were foreigners diirectly involved say hired snipers from Sakartvelo who have killed civilians than fled...but yes you depend up to wiki and your "sources".
same thing about this whole UA local conflict.
JJE
The Minsk Agreements were signed by Kyiv (then Kiev) and the relevant parties from Donetsk and Lugansk, after considerable disagreements from controversial events in 2014.
Russia didn't need to invade Donbass. Moscow simply recognized their legitimacy after 8 years of western-sabotaged diplomacy.
Ask anyone there. They will tell you the same thing.
Antiquesaving
Hilarious!
So Minsk was was in 2014 and 2015.
Merkel admits that it was just a delay tactic from the start.
But then you quote Putin in 2022 as saying the agreement no longer exists?!
According to Merkel it never existed all the way back in 2014 and 2015.
Ukraine and the West saw it as not existing in 2014~15 so all Putin did in the quote you posted was acknowledge what Ukraine and the west had already decided 7 years earlier!
TaiwanIsNotChina
Did you get some of that sweet NED money? I'm sure everyone would be interested in this hard proof of cash handouts.
Russian armed forces clearly the main combatant.
TaiwanIsNotChina
And violated by Russia by not withdrawing the forces for the election.
Anybody not in the thrall of propaganda can see that Russia was illegally militarily involved from the start.
Underworld
Eastmann
It started very peaceful. But Yanukovych had his Berkut Special Forces try and break it up and turned it violent.
Nope. It wasn't.
Evidence? There were snipers, and they may have been hired by Yanukovych...
If people want to see what happened, watch this documentary, which has actual footage of the Maidan protests and how it developed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzNxLzFfR5w&rco=1
Underworld
Antiquesaving
And the fact that Russia broke both Minsk agreements soon after they were signed. Russia never wanted peace in the Donbas.
JJE
Relevant to observe that in pre-2014 Ukraine, the Donbass contributed half of GDP to the country.
The western backed coup shot the Golden Goose. Hard to believe but it is there on camera.
Now it's a failed state on course for basket-case status. And what is left over is a prime candidate for the EU. Shocking stuff.
Underworld
JJE
There was no coup. And Maidan wasn't western backed.
ok1517
Thanks for the welcome back, @Eastman!
Missing you so much, my man!
By the way: you been to Maidan?
During the time when Ukrainians stood up and fought for democracy and freedom?
Didn't see you on any of the pictures.
Or was it undercover?
TaiwanIsNotChina
Ukraine need to catch up to the 80 years Russia had been rearming, so I guess some time to rearm was justified?
TaiwanIsNotChina
It will always be Russia that shot Ukraine.
Antiquesaving
I will remind you Merkel
So who broke the agreement?
She admitted that there really wasn't any agreement because Ukraine and the west had no plans of ever following it.
So Ukraine and the west signed nothing, there was never an agreement because Ukraine had zero intention of implementing it.
So who broke the deal first, the one signing it with no intention of following through or the one that realized the other one was never going to follow through?
If you make a deal with zero intention of keeping to it, you have no ground to stand on when the other person doesn't keep to his end of the deal.
Underworld
Antiquesaving
Russia.
Sure, almost nobody believed in the agreement, but Ukraine had to militarize if it wanted to have a chance to stand up to Russia.
As it turns out, that was the wise thing to do.
Antiquesaving
Russia?
I think you need to learn history.
The Soviet Union made up of millions with multiple ethnic groups including Ukraine leaders.
The Holodomor propaganda if bad Russia, learn Stalin wasn't Russian he didn't even speak Russian properly, he was Georgian, as was Beria, the leader of Ukraine societ republic at the time was Ukrainian.
But hey let's not let facts get in the way of a good pitty party.
Antiquesaving
Really wise?
How many are now dead? Ukrainian economy destroyed, its infrastructure destroyed, its population reduced by well over 10 million most with no intention of returning.
What would have been wise was to sign a deal they had intention of following through, made peace and avoided all this death and destruction.
Underworld
Antiquesaving
As it turns out, that was the wise thing to do.
Blame that on Putin
Wouldn't have stopped Putin.
JJE
Canada's defense minister, Bill Blair (mentioned in the article), could do himself and his country a favour and push for the full list of Ukrainian nazi collaborators who settled in Canada to be published - more than 2000 of them.
Ottawa (Trudeau) just this week refused to do so. Simon Wiesenthal Center slammed this concealment of the truth.
Strangerland
Are we supposed to take this at face value and not as fake news kremlin propaganda?
JJE
For the record, in 1985-6 Canada held a Royal Commission (official inquiry) into the extent of nazi war criminals who slipped in there.
Honest people want the actual list - names included - published. They have it and refuse to let everyone look at it.