Once again Vladimir Putin and his FSB/KGB cronies stage an attack that kills innocent civilians
Normal people offer condolences, others spread conspiracy theories.
Unless you have deep-state level inside info, it's mighty early to jump on the Russia-good / Ukraine-bad train
Russians are mourning, Ukrainian nationalists and their supporters are gloating. What other facts you need for your contemplation?
0 ( +2 / -2 )
Compare this response to that in the Skripal case, for which there was no credible evidence linking it to Russia
Russians do not buy billions of US weaponry and they do not support the petrodollar system. Have they done it, the whole Washington would be full of Skripal-deniers. It's interesting to observe the frantic damage control the US does for the Saudis. Money talks in Washington.
0 ( +7 / -7 )
Nice try to save the face of Saudis and keep intact the flow of Saudis' big bucks to the U.S. Money talks in Washington, right?
0 ( +0 / -0 )
But ya could understand then how people would suspect the Russian government for what happened to him
Sure. Some people just suspect. No logical argument can persuade them. Such people are also well represented on this board. They ignore everything that does not fit in their vision of the world.https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/skripals-bellingcat-gru-novichok-anatoly-chepiga-alexander-mishkin-putin-russia-a8577161.html
whole another level when governments accuse citizens as traitors
It is noteworthy what governments say, but much more important what governments actually do. Putin may critisize "traitors" among the opposition (and he is right to do so, because a good part of the opposition is linked with foreign governments-funded organizations), but so far people actually prosecuted for treason were actual spies and yes, traitors.
0 ( +0 / -0 )
"Skripal is a ‘traitor & scum,’ not some rights activist – Putin"
Putin got a little emotional with "scum", but he is absolutely correct with "traitor". How else can you describe a spy who betrayed his organization and collegues for money?
Putin likens part of independent opposition to Bolsheviks, branding them as traitors
Nah, it's nothing in comparison to the U.S., where a lot of people (including several posters here) call their own president a traitor!
0 ( +0 / -0 )
And Russia state media increasingly brand dissidents traitors
You read a lot of Russian state media? Please provide links on articles about "branding traitors".
While Russia could just explain it
One more time, I hope you'll inderstand at last: until the U.K. goes through official channels (via Scotland Yard etc) the Russians have all the right to ignore the Bellingcat noise, or reply with their own "citizen investigation" of how the MI-5 chief personally poured Novichok in Skripal's tea.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
yet they haven't presented any official state sources
Yes, a lot of noise, but no official proof. But the Btitish behave no more clever then Iranians and Venezuelans: also a lot of noise, dubious investigation by some guys who materialized from nowhere and zero official activity between states usual when prosecuting such criminal cases. At least for Iran and Venezuela that would be difficult, they do not have much of diplomatic relations with the U.S.
everybody believes them
Because of public statements by U.S. officials, who openly support the protests and who are for the toppling of governments of both countries.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
A lot of info being provided against the CIA aren't from official state sources neither
I don't remember any unofficial foreign investigation of CIA activity that resulted in major U.S. government reaction. Several years ago there was a big scandal in Germany when it became known that NSA eavesdropped on Merkel, there was a big noise in media, but NSA or any other U.S. government agency did not react much.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
As I stated above, there is zero evidence of the Syrian Observatory or the white helmets being linked to terrorism
Very typical. Everything that does not fit in the MSM agenda should be ignored, right?
At least someone is providing it
That's the problem - "someone"!! Such matters between states are sorted out between governments, not by "someone". If Her Majesty's government is really concerned about the Skripal affair then the U.K. police or other British law enforcers are welcome to officially produce the real evidence, demand the Russian cooperation and then go to the court. But so far the U.K. officials were very conspicuous with their reluctancy to be involved in the miserable show called "The Skripal hoax". That's why here came the Bellingcat, led by a murky nobody. Russians are absolutely right to ignore him. If the Brits want an official reaction, go the official way with official protocol.
I'm not familiar with Clarity of Signal - who are they and what's their record for reliability?
Frankly, I don't know. But with the wealth of names and photos they provided they look at least no less trustworthy then Bellingcat that some posters here propel as some kind of Utmost Shining Truth.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
Another portion of the usual Bellingcat-made substance. If its true then why so far Scotland Yard or any other U.K. law enforcement agency does not indict these "GRU operatives", make any official actions usual for criminal cases? Stop talking, do your job. But so far the U.K. officials besides Theresa Mayday-Mayday with her fiery but sensless speeches prefer to keep a safe and healthy distance from the whole Skripal hoax and the Bellingcat "investigation".
There is zero evidence of the Syrian Observatory or the white helmets being linked to terrorism
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
A lot of us Brits believe he should have been jailed, but it's hard to prove the difference between his idiocy and his miscalculation
I'm sure there are a lot of decent Britons who are really dismayed by Blair's actions. The problem is not the general public, the problem is the U.K. government that did nothing and still allows Blair to enjoy the spoils of his crime. After that the U.K. and the U.S. (with its Bush also out of jail) have absolutely no moral high ground to lecture others on international law, justice, rule of law and other principles they so thoroughly trampled.
Evidence has been offered
Not through the official channels. Where are the original medical records of the Skripal posoning? So far mostly noise in media and through Bellingcat. Affairs between states are settled through official channels, not by journalists and very questionable "civilian investigators".
You know in your heart that these men are GRU
LOL!!! Seriously, do you really believe these two guys are from the GRU? Do they look like highly trained military officers from special forces, equivalent of SAS? Who before going for a hit stage a party with a prostitute? And you believe that Russian killers come for a secret hit with Russian passports? For me they look like small time traders, may be not very legal.
His journalism is open source based, meaning he uses sources that we all can use
You contradict yourself. From your previous post: "seems to have access to non-public databases".
Didn't you watch it and ask yourself questions? The first one should be, "motives"
Here I agree with you completely. Good question: motives. What the point (for the Russians) of killing a wortless traitor they could have killed years ago when he was in jail?
Seeing as you don't trust Bellingcat
No, I don't. In 2014, several months after the MH-17 tragedy, Russian ministry of defence held a press conference on the subject, with very detailed maps, timeline and other technical details. I saw it on Youtube, it was with English translation. It was very much more persuasive then all the Bellingcat machinations.
-3 ( +0 / -3 )
Now who's complaining about screenshots?
Nah, you started it, I just return the favor.
They gave the job to a 'guy who never served in the armed forces or intelligence services'?
Exactly. A guy originally with no military or intelligence background, who spent years just playing videogames, miraculously and in no time began to demonstrate the deepest knowledge of aviation, missiles and spycraft and magical ability to penetrate non-public databases (or at least you claim it). How gullible one should be to believe that? This guy is just a mouthpiece of the British intelligence. Very convenient for MI-6, always possible to deny everything, "he is just a private citizen".
All I can find is photoshopped pictures that Russia used. They even put the Malaysia Airlines logo in the wrong place
Expect more to come
I have no doubts about that. Only one question: why you do not make it officially? I'm sure there are official routes for the cases like Skripal's, why not using it? Why all the noise in media and through sewage pipes like Bellingcat? Officially present the evidence to the Russians, officially demand cooperation (Russians are offering it), go to the court.
Here's the difference champ; we all know what Blair did, we investigated and we saw the evidence
Here is, champ, the best example of Western duplicity: you know Blair is criminal, you have the evidence, but you do nothing. Instead of throwing Blair behind bars for dozens of thousands of murdered people you allow him to enjoy high life with fat paychecks. And after that you keep moralizing others?
-3 ( +1 / -4 )
Putin gives you 1 star out of 5 - the "western propaganda" line is a clear tell and has been used on RT too many times...
And he will give you 5 stars out of 5 for your promo efforts for RT. A couple of years ago I even did not know about RT, but you guys mention it so often I became interested.
-4 ( +0 / -4 )
More evidence of Putin's army hard at work - remember, they're doing their best to undermine the west
The usual trick, again: call everybody who do not buy the Western propaganda fodder a Putin's agent. Poor substitute for logical arguments. Actually, with such primitive tactics the western propagandists very successfully undermine themselves.
Bellingcat? That is hilarious!! The murky organization led by guy who never served in the armed forces or intelligence services and who is famous for his "investigation" of MH-17 when he photoshoped the Russian Buk launcher screenshots he found on Facebook? MI-5 outsourced the dirty work to this guy.
you underestimate the integrity of others
And the war criminal Blair and Gestapo Gina, present CIA chief, are the best shining examples of this integrity.
-5 ( +0 / -5 )
Hilarious! As if you read anything apart from Putin controlled propaganda
Hilarious is a good word to describe the recent British report by anyone in his right mind and not under influence of drugs or Western propaganda. What are not hilarious are the Western big sordid games around the world. Fanning the civil war in Yugoslavia and robbing it of one of its provinces, Kosovo? Brazen lie to the world about "Saddam's WMD"? Killing hundreds of thousands of people in criminal wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya? Staging coups in foreign countries? Covering up crimes like shooting down of a passenger jet by the Ukrainian regime forces? Staging hoaxes like the recent Skripal affair? Maintaining illegal torture centers around the world? Such brilliant spycraft! And after that you are complaining about screenshots?
-5 ( +0 / -5 )
Cold War 2.0 started in 2000 with Putin's speech in Germany where he ridiculed the West
How dared he do that!! Ridicule the West is a major crime, right?
Five or six years ago there were a lot of noise about Chinese hackers who undermine the West, then there were North Korean hackers, now it's Russians. The West developed the ultimate bogeyman who can be blamed for everything - rank stupidity of its politicians, inability to solve pressing social problems, neglect of serious economic challenges, imperial overstretch due to a string of criminal aggressions against other countries. Hitler blamed the Jews for all Germany's problems, Western "leaders" blame the Russians for everything they are unable to fix.
The more I read these discoveries of the British intelligence the more I have a feeling that I watch another installment of "Johnny English" with Rowen Atkinson.
-5 ( +0 / -5 )
We don't know the reasons yet why the pilot was not able to land on the runway
There is no word about technical malfunctions. And if there is no adverse weather conditions, like strong winds, rain or something like that, usually the main reason for missing the runway is the pilot's error.
0 ( +0 / -0 )
if only they weren’t persecuted in Putinistan....
And you can provide names / cases of the persecuted?
Anyway, good to see you agree that the whole "Skripal's pets' great Salisbury massacre" is a hoax. Cheers!
-4 ( +0 / -4 )
Poor old Theresa Mayday-Mayday, even the "GRU assasination" hoax is unable to help her to deflect attention from her hapless Brexit handling and to win any symphaty and concessions from the EU.
-3 ( +1 / -4 )
"We think introducing the S-300s to the Syrian government would be a significant escalation
Interesting change of official semantics. So it is "Syrian government" now, not the "regime"? A major improvement in Washington thinking, but still a way to go to recognize the full reality of the situation in Syria.
Has it been that long?
You call it long? Nah, to fight in Afghanistan since 2001 and in Iraq since 2003, that is long!
And Russian planes and troops are still being taken out by Syrian, Turkish, and American forces?
There is no war without losses. But you can compare losses of Russsia and Western forces and the results both sides achieved.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
who is looking for facts, but unable to find any.
0 ( +2 / -2 )
I have two questions for AFP about this story.
Question one. Why the interest only to the Idlib area? I do not remember any interest demonstrated towards the plight of medical workers at Damascus under constant fire from jihadists-held Eastern Gouta, I havn't seen any articles about doctors and nurses during the storm of Raqqa or Mosul.
Question two. Why we should believe that all people on the photo are really medical workers? All I see is a group of people with flags and covered faces.
Russia has intentionally targeted hospitals
You write it at every possibility, and at every possibility I ask you to give any proof of "intentional targeting". Zero, again?
1 ( +5 / -4 )
I do believe the British because their side of the argument is far more credible
Just like in 2003, Blair was much more persuasive then.
The war criminal Tony Blair.....What's worrying is just how timid people are in standing up to the monster
Why this criminal not in jail? What's really worrying is just how benevolent the timid British people toward the monster.
Why was there traces of novichok in the hotel the assassins stayed in, do you think?
If the police was able to detect these traces several months after the incident while nobody in the hotel was hurt immediately after these two guys left? The concentration of the poison then was very much higher.
Aerosols are a very secure way of keeping liquids secure
But the "cold-blooded professional killers" were afraid to use the poison? Then if it is secure, then how come the police was able to trace it after several months? This poison has a short life span. Assume there was a leak, but if there was leak then why nobody else was hurt by "the most lethal poson in the world"? Weapons grade scientist are you, or just talking nonsense to support your conspiracy theory?
I'm sure that's also the reason for the chemical attacks, invading Crimea, shooting down passenger planes
Again, this propaganda fodder.... You are not tired to repeat it?
1 ( +4 / -3 )
Good piece from Bill Browder
Of course, opinion of a con man is very valuable....
They’re je scary ones, the TRUE beliebers....
Yes, they are. Particularly the "Whatever-the-facts-I-know-Pitin-did-it" believers. I knew a guy who was an Aum-Shinrikyo follower. Striking resemblance of mentality.
You believe the Russians? A country that has used computer game screenshots as 'proof' of military actions
One screenshot, a clerical mistake. You believe the British? A country whose prime minister started a war on pretext he knew from the very beginning was a barefaced lie?
Personally I reckon that they only reason the Skirpals survived is because the agents were so scared of the substance that they sprayed it for too short a time
"Highly trained professional killers" were scared? Sprayed without any protection, how? Had their poisonous stuff in a hotel room, with no protective equipment, and everybody is alive and well?
Unlike the woman who died who actually sprayed it on herself
What is the connection with this duo? They were out of U.K. for several months when she picked up something. Several months this thing was on a street, in an unsecure bottle, and nobody else was poisoned? And what hapless killers those two are, discarded one bottle on the street, courteosly left another bottle in the hotel to help the police with the case.
From scientific point of view this strory is pure nonsense.
-3 ( +4 / -7 )
Sure, anyone who does not believe this British bollocks is a Putin agent and a GRU operative. lol
-2 ( +5 / -7 )
a British government spokeswoman said: "The government is clear these men are officers of the Russian military intelligence service -- the GRU
Stop talking and show the evidence, really. Any actual evidence, not empty words. Show actual medical reports of Skripal. Explain how it's possible to stage a chemical attack with the most lethal nerve agent without any protective gear and casually hold this poison in a usual bottle of perfume. Explain how it's possible to trace the poison in their hotel room while nobody was affected by this "lethal poison". So far all the British story is "an insult to the public's intelligence" and an exellent example of "obfuscation and lies". Colin Powell's vial with "Saddam WMD" in 2003, now this bottle of perfume.
If someone hadn't died due to their actons, this would be very funny
Who died as the result of their actions? A junkie who found something on the street several months after these guys left the U.K.? What's the connection? So far the ones who really died as the result of the whole hoax were Skripal's pets, callously massacred by the police. "The great Salisbury massacre" it is.
Yeah, I'd feel the same way. Putin's done with you
A couple of days ago you predicted "they will be disappeared". I think your assessment is not correct again. You should be more afraid for Skripal. He is not needed by the British now.
-6 ( +4 / -10 )
Yes, I'm sure Navalny enjoys his free life being thrown in jail for a month
For resistance to the police. What happens in U.K. to anybody who resists the police? In the U.S. cops shoot such individuals on the spot, about 900 per year.
Who would ever think of killing a Russian traitor with Russian plod with a Russian nerve agent? Answer: Russia..
Will Russia risk a full confrontation with the U.K. for a very questionable pleasure of killing a useless traitor it could have killed years ago when he was in jail? That would be extremely illogical and plain stupid. Then who? Answer: U.K. False flag operation by MI-5 to deflect attention from Brexit imbroglio and less then substandard performance of Theresa Mayday-Mayday, to whip up unity among the West to confront Russia.
when they aren't blowing passenger planes out of the skies
Whoa, I thought the Western propaganda machine forgot about it. OK, question: why the Netherlands still so secretive about the investigation of the tragedy? Why not to make it as open as possible? Because the plane was shot down by the forces of the West-installed Ukrainian neonazi regime, and the Dutch are very reluctant to say it (NATO unity).
Help me here. What am I looking for on line 3?
Seriously, you have problems with attention. My post with a part about Blair, you missed the next: "About kidnaps etc. Can you provide facts? I mean facts, not media speculations".
in fact, their existence is a burden to him. They will be disappeared
I think you are for a big surprise. I think these two guys are alive, they'll appear on TV and say something very different from all the spy nonsense we heard from the U.K. government.
-4 ( +0 / -4 )
Unlike the people who chose to run against Vlad
Yes, they run against him, were defeated in elections, now they are alive and well and continue to enjoy their lives. What's your point?
Evidence of hysteria please
Some speeches by May, Johnson and several others. Particularly entertaining was some session in parlament I saw on TV. Something between Shaekspearean tragedy and a mental asylum.
Evidence of Russian guilt, please?
A bit quiet on the kidnaps, tortures and murders part though aren't you eh!
Read again, more attentievely this time, my previous post. Third line.
-5 ( +2 / -7 )
Putin never lies, or for that matter, kidnaps, tortures, and murders, does he?
And British prime ministers never lie! No, no! Ask Blair about another hoax, "Saddam's WMD". Only that asks for another Nuremberg trial.
About kidnaps etc. Can you provide facts? I mean facts, not media speculations.
Perhaps it was because they were trained with the poison
Interesting theory. How do you imagine the training not to be affected by "the most lethal poison in the world, worse then VX"? And what about the people who stayed in the room after the "killers", they also were trained?
Russian overlords have never been known for their intelligence
And this is the reason why the Russians managed to defeat Napoleon and Hitler and now they are successfully competing with the West?
Putin is too scared to allow free elections in Russia
All elections in Russia were free, there were a lot of accounts in Western MSM on that, even they had to admit the obvious - Putin is very popular in his country. It's bewildering how some people refuse to admit facts that do not fit in their picture of the world.
Let it be decided inside a court of law - then we'll see where the evidence lay
Good idea. But the problem is that the British do not want a trial, they demand the Russians just to admit the accusations, and when the Russians ask to show evidence the Brits go hysterical.
-5 ( +2 / -7 )