It’s just noise and disinformation
Good description of Western propaganda apparatus.
According to treaty Ukranian warships are not required to
Due to heavy traffic in the strait all ships (including Russian-flagged) are required to inform in advance about their planned passage. Safety of shipping. In September 2 Ukrainian warships informed about their plans and passed the strait without any hindrance.
The cargo ship was deliberately positioned that way
Yes, after the Ukrainian ships caused a massive disarray near the strait, disrupting the passage of other ships, ignoring the traffic control and warnings by the coast guard.
I have a question. What would happen if a foreign warship tries to enter US territorial waters without prior notification and after stubbornly ignoring coast guard's warnings?
-4 ( +0 / -4 )
Spend all our tax money on planes that can easily be shot down by Russia or China. Or help disaster affected Japanese citizens?
OK, let's for a moment imagine that Japan spends all its weapons money on very honorable aims like disaster relief, social security etc. And then Chinese land at Senkaku. What are going to do? Without weaponry?
@Fox Sora Winters
It would be nice if Japan could buy a bit more from UK, France and Germany
It would be very much nicer if Japan makes all the armaments it need. If spend big yen on weapons, spend it at home, enliven your manufacturing base.
-3 ( +1 / -4 )
Add in Putin’s serious loss of approval rating and his record of using the tyrants favourite tool for distracting the masses, foreign adventures. Unless you are a Russian troll, the conclusion is self evident
With this loss Putin's approval rating is still high. Compare it with Poroshenko's dismal rating in less then half year before elections, coupled with economic meltdown. He is more then anybody I interested "distracting the masses by foreign adventures". Unless you are a Western troll, the conclusion is self evident.
zero credibility there
At least Russians give facts that can be checked. Western and Ukrainian sources provide nothing but propaganda noise.
Note that ducking the question about the blocking cargo ship
Seriously, you need an explanation? Hint: traffic cops do the same when confront a speeding idiot before he kills somebody.
-5 ( +0 / -5 )
According to the Russians, the Ukrainian boats did not ask for the right to pass the strait at all, there were no initial plans to sail to the Azov Sea. They just barged into the territorial waters, ignoring shore sea traffic control and the coast guard. Among 24 people on board of these boats there were 2 security service cadres who obviously were in charge of this clear-cut provocation.
-4 ( +1 / -5 )
This clear clear violation of norms
What norms did the Russian coast guard violate when the Ukrainian boats barged into the Russian territorial waters without permission? Be specific.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
“No Western participation in the coup d’etat in Ukraine in 2014”.
Fanatics are dangerous people. Whether it is Al Qaieda, ISIS, the Clintonist cult, anti-Putin fanatics - these people are a blight to the human race.
-2 ( +2 / -4 )
Since the 2003 treaty is in effect, the Ukraine ships has the right to transit the strait into the other side which is Ukrainian territory
That’s correct. And two months ago the Russians allowed 2 Ukrainian warships to transit the strait without any problems. All that Ukrainians had to do was to inform in advance about the passage and observe the usual maritime rules (the strait is very busy with merchant traffic). But this time they would not. Erratic maneuvering, provocative behavior. Only one good thing: Ukrainian crews were clever enough, they did not want to die for their idiotic president, and they quickly surrendered when they understood they went too far.
-3 ( +2 / -5 )
Hilarious. Ukrainian warships illegally entered Russian territorial waters, but the whole army of Western trolls tries to pursuade the world that it is all Russian fault. I wonder what will happen if, for example, Argentinian warships enter without permission the waters near the Malvinas.
-4 ( +2 / -6 )
that sort of info is - most likely - suppressed
Here it is again, "most likely", the present king of Western proof. When you have nothing to back up your claim, "most likely" / "highly likely" comes to rescue, heh? Why it is so difficult for you to comprehend that something is very difficult to find simply because this "something" does not exist, not because it is hidden? Statistics on shootings by Russian cops difficult to find because it is not in the habit of Russian cops to shoot without reason. "It is hard to find a black cat in a dark room, especially when it is not there" (Confucius).
Adios. Come next time with something more solid then "most likely".
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
Again 'the west is worse' defense
Read again, carefully, my previous post. My point is not "West is worse", my point is West is not better. I do not single out the U.S., I'm sure all major Western countries (U.K,, Germany, France) have their share of problems with police and crime. My point is that West absolutely undeservedly usurped the moral right to judge others. I can understand if Japan does it, after all we have the least problems with police (of course, in comparison to other countries), but the U.S.??? Guys, first fix your own home, only after that you can lecture others.
Could you provide 'facts' on Russian citizens killed by Russian police?
Could you? After all it's you who claim that Russia is a police state. Provide facts that Russian cops secretly kill prople and Russia media is not allowed to report it.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
And it could be with Russia being a police state
LOL!!! The U.S. provides a quarter of the world's prison populace,
U.S. cops shoot people by hundreds, but the "police state" is Russia? Exellent logic. Congrats, or something.
'Can't prove it' and 'The west is worse'
Yes, if you claim something you should back your claim with facts. Why it is so bewildering for you?
And West may be not worse then Russia, but it is definitely not better.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
How about Russia?
With pro-Western media in Russia more then eager to report any wrongdoing, real or imaginary, by the law enforcement ("our unauthorized gathering was mercilessly dispersed by the Putin's police") it is very unlikely that any unlawful shooting would be ignored and unreported.
-2 ( +1 / -3 )
Do you have statistics on how many people are shot or killed by Russian police?
A couple of years ago I saw some statistics: Russian police (SWAT) shot about 15 people that year, almost all of them in the Caucasus region, where an Islamist insurgency takes place. In other parts of Russia shootings are rather rare.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
Four U.S. senators, including Marco Rubio, have urged the Trump administration to oppose the Prokopchuk candidacy
Outstanding. The nation where cops annually shot almost a thousand people, the nation that allowed the heroin production in the occupied country of Afghanistan skyrocket, wants to teach others what is good and what is wrong. Great.
-4 ( +2 / -6 )
Salute to the dead sailors. Rest in peace.
1 ( +1 / -0 )
The U.S. propaganda apparatus designed a perfect weapon - "Putin's meddling". Whatever happens, blame Putin. Lost an election? Blame Putin and his hackers! Gas prices are too high? Blame Putin! Your wife caught you cheating on her? Well, you know what to do!
It requires moral courage to admit a simple fact: most (if not all) America's problems are the result of negligence and stupidity of its political class, not some nefarious machinations of foreign (Russian, Chinese, Iranian etc) hackers. If you want to cure from alcoholism the first order of the business is to admit frankly that only you are to blame for the problem, not the bar where you are the favourite customer or the maker of your whisky. But many people still unable to admit that Trump as a president is not a result of a brilliant Russian spy plot, but a manifestation of a deep problem: serious disillusionment of millions of Americans with the current system. Putin may be is flattered with the God-like abilities U.S. propaganda credits him with, however reality is more mundane.
I've written it once, I repeat it again: dear Americans, don't make your great conuntry a laughing stock, Calm down, get a clear head and don't blame others for the problems of your own making.
-7 ( +2 / -9 )
"We are at sea, everyone's got the right to be here. It's international waters, it's international airspace," said British Admiral Guy Robinson
Truly professional attitude. What a pity such clear-head thinking is obviously lacking in some people who go bananas from one recon flight and even can see a Trump's hand in it.
0 ( +3 / -3 )
Once again Vladimir Putin and his FSB/KGB cronies stage an attack that kills innocent civilians
Normal people offer condolences, others spread conspiracy theories.
Unless you have deep-state level inside info, it's mighty early to jump on the Russia-good / Ukraine-bad train
Russians are mourning, Ukrainian nationalists and their supporters are gloating. What other facts you need for your contemplation?
0 ( +2 / -2 )
Compare this response to that in the Skripal case, for which there was no credible evidence linking it to Russia
Russians do not buy billions of US weaponry and they do not support the petrodollar system. Have they done it, the whole Washington would be full of Skripal-deniers. It's interesting to observe the frantic damage control the US does for the Saudis. Money talks in Washington.
0 ( +7 / -7 )
Nice try to save the face of Saudis and keep intact the flow of Saudis' big bucks to the U.S. Money talks in Washington, right?
0 ( +0 / -0 )
But ya could understand then how people would suspect the Russian government for what happened to him
Sure. Some people just suspect. No logical argument can persuade them. Such people are also well represented on this board. They ignore everything that does not fit in their vision of the world.https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/skripals-bellingcat-gru-novichok-anatoly-chepiga-alexander-mishkin-putin-russia-a8577161.html
whole another level when governments accuse citizens as traitors
It is noteworthy what governments say, but much more important what governments actually do. Putin may critisize "traitors" among the opposition (and he is right to do so, because a good part of the opposition is linked with foreign governments-funded organizations), but so far people actually prosecuted for treason were actual spies and yes, traitors.
0 ( +0 / -0 )
"Skripal is a ‘traitor & scum,’ not some rights activist – Putin"
Putin got a little emotional with "scum", but he is absolutely correct with "traitor". How else can you describe a spy who betrayed his organization and collegues for money?
Putin likens part of independent opposition to Bolsheviks, branding them as traitors
Nah, it's nothing in comparison to the U.S., where a lot of people (including several posters here) call their own president a traitor!
0 ( +0 / -0 )
And Russia state media increasingly brand dissidents traitors
You read a lot of Russian state media? Please provide links on articles about "branding traitors".
While Russia could just explain it
One more time, I hope you'll inderstand at last: until the U.K. goes through official channels (via Scotland Yard etc) the Russians have all the right to ignore the Bellingcat noise, or reply with their own "citizen investigation" of how the MI-5 chief personally poured Novichok in Skripal's tea.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
yet they haven't presented any official state sources
Yes, a lot of noise, but no official proof. But the Btitish behave no more clever then Iranians and Venezuelans: also a lot of noise, dubious investigation by some guys who materialized from nowhere and zero official activity between states usual when prosecuting such criminal cases. At least for Iran and Venezuela that would be difficult, they do not have much of diplomatic relations with the U.S.
everybody believes them
Because of public statements by U.S. officials, who openly support the protests and who are for the toppling of governments of both countries.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
A lot of info being provided against the CIA aren't from official state sources neither
I don't remember any unofficial foreign investigation of CIA activity that resulted in major U.S. government reaction. Several years ago there was a big scandal in Germany when it became known that NSA eavesdropped on Merkel, there was a big noise in media, but NSA or any other U.S. government agency did not react much.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
As I stated above, there is zero evidence of the Syrian Observatory or the white helmets being linked to terrorism
Very typical. Everything that does not fit in the MSM agenda should be ignored, right?
At least someone is providing it
That's the problem - "someone"!! Such matters between states are sorted out between governments, not by "someone". If Her Majesty's government is really concerned about the Skripal affair then the U.K. police or other British law enforcers are welcome to officially produce the real evidence, demand the Russian cooperation and then go to the court. But so far the U.K. officials were very conspicuous with their reluctancy to be involved in the miserable show called "The Skripal hoax". That's why here came the Bellingcat, led by a murky nobody. Russians are absolutely right to ignore him. If the Brits want an official reaction, go the official way with official protocol.
I'm not familiar with Clarity of Signal - who are they and what's their record for reliability?
Frankly, I don't know. But with the wealth of names and photos they provided they look at least no less trustworthy then Bellingcat that some posters here propel as some kind of Utmost Shining Truth.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
Another portion of the usual Bellingcat-made substance. If its true then why so far Scotland Yard or any other U.K. law enforcement agency does not indict these "GRU operatives", make any official actions usual for criminal cases? Stop talking, do your job. But so far the U.K. officials besides Theresa Mayday-Mayday with her fiery but sensless speeches prefer to keep a safe and healthy distance from the whole Skripal hoax and the Bellingcat "investigation".
There is zero evidence of the Syrian Observatory or the white helmets being linked to terrorism
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
A lot of us Brits believe he should have been jailed, but it's hard to prove the difference between his idiocy and his miscalculation
I'm sure there are a lot of decent Britons who are really dismayed by Blair's actions. The problem is not the general public, the problem is the U.K. government that did nothing and still allows Blair to enjoy the spoils of his crime. After that the U.K. and the U.S. (with its Bush also out of jail) have absolutely no moral high ground to lecture others on international law, justice, rule of law and other principles they so thoroughly trampled.
Evidence has been offered
Not through the official channels. Where are the original medical records of the Skripal posoning? So far mostly noise in media and through Bellingcat. Affairs between states are settled through official channels, not by journalists and very questionable "civilian investigators".
You know in your heart that these men are GRU
LOL!!! Seriously, do you really believe these two guys are from the GRU? Do they look like highly trained military officers from special forces, equivalent of SAS? Who before going for a hit stage a party with a prostitute? And you believe that Russian killers come for a secret hit with Russian passports? For me they look like small time traders, may be not very legal.
His journalism is open source based, meaning he uses sources that we all can use
You contradict yourself. From your previous post: "seems to have access to non-public databases".
Didn't you watch it and ask yourself questions? The first one should be, "motives"
Here I agree with you completely. Good question: motives. What the point (for the Russians) of killing a wortless traitor they could have killed years ago when he was in jail?
Seeing as you don't trust Bellingcat
No, I don't. In 2014, several months after the MH-17 tragedy, Russian ministry of defence held a press conference on the subject, with very detailed maps, timeline and other technical details. I saw it on Youtube, it was with English translation. It was very much more persuasive then all the Bellingcat machinations.
-3 ( +0 / -3 )
Now who's complaining about screenshots?
Nah, you started it, I just return the favor.
They gave the job to a 'guy who never served in the armed forces or intelligence services'?
Exactly. A guy originally with no military or intelligence background, who spent years just playing videogames, miraculously and in no time began to demonstrate the deepest knowledge of aviation, missiles and spycraft and magical ability to penetrate non-public databases (or at least you claim it). How gullible one should be to believe that? This guy is just a mouthpiece of the British intelligence. Very convenient for MI-6, always possible to deny everything, "he is just a private citizen".
All I can find is photoshopped pictures that Russia used. They even put the Malaysia Airlines logo in the wrong place
Expect more to come
I have no doubts about that. Only one question: why you do not make it officially? I'm sure there are official routes for the cases like Skripal's, why not using it? Why all the noise in media and through sewage pipes like Bellingcat? Officially present the evidence to the Russians, officially demand cooperation (Russians are offering it), go to the court.
Here's the difference champ; we all know what Blair did, we investigated and we saw the evidence
Here is, champ, the best example of Western duplicity: you know Blair is criminal, you have the evidence, but you do nothing. Instead of throwing Blair behind bars for dozens of thousands of murdered people you allow him to enjoy high life with fat paychecks. And after that you keep moralizing others?
-3 ( +1 / -4 )