0.2 mSv is lower than most countries.
0.2 mSv/hr is actually higher than most countries. http://www.jnto.go.jp/eq/eng/04_recovery.htm#measure
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No, I think they pwned their own. Check out the below link for radiation doses around the world. Look who has the highest recording and look at all the other numbers recorded in various locationste around the world.
Based on the link you provided, Fukushima-city, which still has not been evacuated, has the highest dose of radiation when compared to all other cities around the world listed there. Your link states that Fukushima-city has a dose rate of 0.60 uSV/hr. Meanwhile, New York city, if that's where you're comparing Japan to, has a dose rate of .094 uSV/hr. The level of radiation in Fukushima-city is over 6 times higher than New York's.
You have to remember that Tohoku's source of radiation is from the by-products of nuclear fission which consists radioactive isotopes like cesium-134/137. Meanwhile the rest of the world is pretty much affected by normal background radiation instead which does not consist of man-made isotopes like cesium-134/137.
Yellowfin tunas are "largely residential in the Eastern Pacfic" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18239107. Based on the non-detectable levels of cesium-134/137 in Yellowfin tunas that the article states, we could verify that the US didn't pwn their own Bluefin tunas. Instead, it was TEPCO who really pwned them. So the_harper was correct regarding his statement.
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Be warned that the amount of radiation will only continue to increase in fish as radiation is accumulative -these figures are out of date!
Yep. And let's not forget about biomagnification as Bluefin Tunas are big fishes which eat A LOT of smaller fishes and planktons which could be also potentially radioactive.
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... All three... categories of <5mm particles (5mm未満細塵) from 大槌町(Otsuchi town) are contaminated with Cs-134/137 at 520 bq/kg, 430 bq/kg, and 590 bq/kg respectively. The three categories of <5mm particles (5mm未満細塵) makes up 51.8% of the debris composition from 大槌町(Otsuchi town). One of the category is very close to while the other two exceeds the Ministry of Environment's maximum allowed burning limit at 480 bq/kg.
So it's wise to be cautious.
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According to the map you provided, Yamada and Otsuchi town where Shimada city will accept debris are not affected (or at least less than 0.125microSv/hr)
Hey thanks for pointing that out as I did not know the exact location of Yamda and Otsuchi Town before. I also just found out that Fukushima Prefecture is not participating in the debris ship-out (Thank goodness).
So I looked up all the tsunami-affected cities and town in Miyagi and Iwate prefectures that are participating in the debris ship-out and logged down their radiation levels from the Fukushima fallout based on the map: http://gunma.zamurai.jp/pub/2012/0305Gmap.jpg
From Iwate Prefecture:
野田村 Noda-mura: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
田野畑村 Tanohata-mura: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
大槌町 Otsuchi-cho: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
陸前高田市 Rikuzentakata-shi: 0.25~ uSV/hr
宮古市 Miyako-shi: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
山田町 Yamada-cho: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
久慈市 Kuji-shi: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
From Miyagi Prefecture:
氣仙沼市 Kesennuma-shi: 0.25~ uSV/hr
南三陸町 Minami Sanriku-cho: normal to 0.125~ uSV/hr
石卷市 Ishinomaki-shi: normal to 0.125~ uSV/hr
石巻市（牡鹿半島部）Ishinomaki-shi (Oshika District): 0.25~ uSV/hr
東松島市 Higashi Matsushima-shi: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
塩竈市 Shiogama-shi: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
多賀城市 Tagajo-shi: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
七ヶ浜町 Shichigahama-cho: <0.125 uSV/hr or normal.
名取市 Natori-shi: 0.125~ uSV/hr
岩沼市 Iwanuma-shi: 0.125~ to 0.25~ uSV/hr
女川町 Onagawa-cho: 0.125~ to 0.25~ uSV/hr
8 out of 18 (44%) cities and towns in Miyagi and Iwate Prefectures that are participating in the debris ship-out are still being hit by radiation from the fallouts of Fukushima.
Based on the data, it seems like 山田町(Yamada town) and 大槌町(Otsuchi town) are relatively safe from radiation of Fukushima fallouts. However, their debris are still contaminated with radiation. http://kouikishori.env.go.jp/howto/houshanou-noudo.pdf
One important thing to note:
So it's wise to be cautious.
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nigelboy and Super7,
Sorry. I meant to say your calculation was incorrect.
36 micro sieverts/hr x 24 hrs/days x 365 days/year=315,360 micro sievers/year or 315.369 milli sieverts/year
10'000 milli sieverts / 315.369 milli sieverts/year=31.708 years.
Sorry, you're right. I simply took 315mSv and assumed that it was hr. Instead like you said should be 315mSV/yr. Thus it will take 31.7 years to kill that person standing on the same spot. Nonetheless, 36uSV/hr is still a ridiculously high level. As it will pretty much guarantee that person won't live more than 32 years after the continuous exposure. Possibly even shorter due to cancer. Fortunately, 36uSV/hr is only discovered inside the exclusion zone.
nigelboy, thanks for pointing out my mistake.
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All of their complaints basically boil down to: It will cause anxiety, it will cause anxiety. Well no kidding, but if you don't tell people the truth then it will cause even more anxiety.
If they tell people the truth then it will cause mass panic which is what they are trying to avoid.
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Don't know if Super7 calculation is correct
10,000 mSV/ 315 mSV/year=31.7 years.
I don't see Super7 having a calculation similar to one you stated above. Do you instead mean that you don't know if my calculation is correct? If that's what you meant then you got a few units mixed up which completely changes the interpretation of the calculation.
My calculation was: 10,000 mSV / 315 mSV/hr = 31.65 hrs
Yes, it is pretty much correct (I just mistyped a 6 instead of a 7 but it's not significant in this scenario).
Let me break it down for you:
1.) 10,000 mSV (divide by) 1 hour (over) 315 mSV
2.) 10,000 mSV X 1 hour = 10,000 (mSV)(hour)
3.) 10,000 (mSV)(hour) / 315 mSV = 31.75 (mSV)(hour)/mSV
4.) The mSV's cancels out on the numerator and denominator , thus, the final answer is 31.75 hrs.
Whether it's 31.65 hrs or 31.75 hrs, both hours will still get you extremely close to 10,000 mSV at the rate of 315mSV/hr. Once again, the error that we're talk about here is insignificant.
That's assuming that individual stays on the hot spot 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days.....blah blah
Yes we both already stated the IF situation before we started our calculation and then conclusion.
Super7: "If you stayed at that spot for a year then..."
Me: "you will be laying dead on that spot in a few weeks" (which pretty much implied that I'm playing his situation and not moving away from that spot)
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Well said, but it's important to note that the 36uSV/hour hotspot is only found inside the exclusion zone.
Not sure if serious... The current radiation level in Fukushima is 36 mSv/hour, which is over 500 times higher
a) 36uSV/hr X 24hr = 864uSV/day
b) 864uSV/day X 365day = 315,360uSV/yr
c) 315,360uSV/yr = 315.36mSV/yr
2.4mSV/yr - Typical background radiation experienced by everyone (average 1.5 mSv in Australia, 3 mSv in North America). http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf05.html
315.36mSV/yr / 2.4mSV/yr = 131.4 times higher than normal
315.36mSV/yr / 1.5mSV/yr = 210.24 (at max) times higher than normal in Australia
Although not 500 times higher than normal, over 100 times normal is still ridiculously high. Once again it is enough to give you 10,000 mSV in 31.65 hrs to kill you with in a few weeks.
What's wrong with these people who gave you thumbs down?
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The current radiation level in Fukushima is 36 MICRO-Sv/hour. If you stayed at that spot for a year then you'd receive 315 MILLI-Sv or 0.315 sV... which is less than a third of the level that the WHO would begin to get concerned about.
To be specific, you will be laying dead on that spot in a few weeks.
10,000 mSV single dose - Fatal within a few weeks. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf05.html
10,000 mSV / 315 mSV/hr = 31.65 hrs
In 31.65 hrs, you will already accumulate 10,000mSV to kill you within a few weeks.
...which is less than a third of the level that the WHO would begin to get concerned about.
What level that the WHO would begin to concerned about? Please provide me the name/classification of the level. (i.e. Allowable short-term dose for emergency workers)
So according to your third of that level, the number would be 1000mSV/hr?
Is that when the WHO will begin to concern? I'm afraid it will be too late to concern already.
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By the way nigelboy, if you do care, I didn't give you any thumbs down.
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With all due respect Christopher, the fear mongering posts done by others have been addressed in the past including "China Syndrome" (Brazil?) and has been debunked countless times.
I used to be an anti-fear monger but I realized that once in a while they do hold some truth. I used too shun all information until it is proven by an official source. Sometimes that takes ages to do so. For example, trans fat wasn't proven to be bad to the people until many decades later after it was introduced in many processed food which some people have been eating for half of their lifetime. That's why it's good to be open minded and use your own logical judgement instead of shunning all other information that do not seem to be official.
Like I said earlier, it's a possibility. That's why TEPCO is planning to build that "giant underground concrete tray" just in case it's going to happen or to stop it from going further.
For your information:
1.) TEPCO themselves already believe that 3 of their reactors already melted down since the beginning which they have said otherwise in the beginning. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/world/asia/25nuclear.html?_r=2
2.) One of the reactor has a hole (most likely due to falling melted fuel pellet) which led to the leakage of radioactive water. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/12/us-japan-nuclear-reactor-idUSTRE74B1H520110512
3.) "Three Daiichi reactors had meltdowns, but the number two reactor is the only one that has been examined because radiation levels inside the reactor building are relatively low and its container is designed with a convenient slot to send in the endoscope." Heck, if they don't even have the capability to examine the other two reactors due to extremely high radiation that even robots can't handle, then how can they confirm that "China Syndrome" has not occurred? That's why once again "China Syndrome" is still a possibility and that's why they are planning to build that "giant underground concrete tray" just in case. Overall the situation is still very uncertain and definitely not in "cold shutdown" like they claimed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/mar/28/fukushima-reactor-radiation-levels
And I don't know if you read the news or not but the maximum radiation amount which has been implemented since March of last year has been reduced to normal pre-nuclear disaster levels indicating that the food contamination has not only stopped spreading but has decreased substantially to a point where such levels are now set.
Yes, I knew that the government has lowered their radiation limits in food. However, I don't see how the lowered standards has anything to do with proving that the spread of food contamination has stopped. If you can, please clarify. Also just because the maximum limit has been lowered doesn't mean the food is not contaminated.
In any case, the amount of radiation levels for debris in each location, the amount, the result of exhaust air and ash radiation levels from incinirators in various locations, and the methods to assure the safety of this debris inciniration are all found on this link below. http://kouikishori.env.go.jp/
Thanks for the reminder and providing me the link, I will definitely keep up with the radiation levels around the plants as the burning of the debris has just been recently started. So I'll be looking out for anything out of ordinary.
Gee. Weren't you the one providing the link to the map.
I thought you were comparing my map to another source because on my map the tsunami-affected areas are being hit with .25 uSv/hr while Tokyo is being hit with .125 uSv/hr. Therefore, "the majority of the locations that the debris are stored has the same level of radiation than that of parts of Tokyo," which you said is not true. It led me to believe that you had another map or source, that's why I was asking for it.
And again, the "contaminated" food is old news. Please do keep up. And please do read up on the link I provided in regards to the radiation level and the result of the exhaust air quality and the ash done by the inciniration plants. Then do yourself a favor and check the radiation level on the city where the incinartion plants are stationed. I look forward to your results.
I do keep up with the news and contaminated food is definitely not old news. It's an ongoing issue. For example, from 2 days ago. http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2012/05/radioactive-japan-1072-bqkg-of-cesium.html
I'm under the impression that you still didn't read what I linked. Fair enough. Speaking of "re-introduce" the radioactive particles into the air all over again, one of dangers of this current debris problem is that it could set fire instantly as the temperature rises (chemical reaction). Hence, what you are suggesting is to contaminate those debris even more by exposure and have the chance of burning uncontrolled without containment or filter thereby "spreading" the radioactive particles more into the atmosphere. Roll eyes once again.
Sorry I've been pretty busy with the rebuttals. I'll read it when given the opportunity. I don't really understand what you're saying on this one. But it seems like you're saying that the particles could be contained completely without releasing them to the air through burning process. We'll see how well those filters work filtering out those nanoparticles, only time will tell. Meanwhile, I'll maintain an eye on the radiation levels released around the incineration plants.
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According to the map you linked, the majority of the locations that the debris are stored has the same level of radiation than that of parts of Tokyo.
May you please provide a link of source that say so? As I have not seen any radiation readings of the debris other than in becquerels. Just because Tokyo is contaminated "naturally" through winds and rains doesn't make it right to intentionally contaminate other cities that are clean. Foods are contaminated throughout much of Tohoku and Kanto region, and people there are trying to seek for other food source from places that are clean like Kyushu. Where are they going to get their clean food from if everywhere else in Japan is contaminated?
Perhaps it has to do with the fact the estimated debris amounts to nearly half of what Japan produces in the entire year. With the current plan of having other prefecture take in 2.27 million metric tons, they plan on finishing the inciniration by another two years. Without it, I can't speculate on how long it would take but in Miyagi alone, the amount of debris is basically 14 years worth of garbage. For Iwate, 12 years.
I agree with you that it will take forever for the tsunami-affected prefectures to get rid of the debris. However, like I suggested earlier, the exclusion zone would be the perfect place to store the debris. It's closer = less transportation fee. Doing so will also prevent the contamination of the clean places. Lastly, wouldn't it be a much wiser option to store them in the exclusion zone instead of burning them? Not only does burning takes a lot more time than just simply storing, burning the debris could also re-introduce the radioactive particles into the air all over again.
-1 ( +3 / -4 )
Well if they stored all the tsunami debris in a highly radioactive area then it would become radioactive as well, compounding the radioactive debris problem.
Yes, the tsunami debris will become highly radioactive as well but they are contained inside the area of exclusion zone. Who gives? No one really cares as most cannot enter anyway. It's wasteland with no future. Therefore, I don't see the issue here.
As you say, not rocket science but perhaps we should be leaving these decisions to qualified scientists after all.
Since you attacked the "ignorant" civilians, I'm going to let this one out as I have see many "qualified" and brainwashing experts/scientists' opinions on the radiation issue out there in Japan.
Professor Shunichi Yamashita of Biomedical Sciences at Nagasaki University once said, "to tell you the truth, radiation doesn't affect people who are smiling, but those who are worried."
Very scientific huh? Will you trust these people? I would only comfortably leave these decisions to the qualified scientists/experts if they make sense. Unfortunately, I haven't really seen one yet.
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My Japanese is downright poor, but doesn't the map say it is using reading data from April 21, 2011? How does that translate into "still being hit with radiation" over a year later?
It's all good. His map was first published in 21 April 2011. His most recent data was collected in December 2011. The 6th edtion of the map (the one you're reading) was published on 2 Mar 2012 with his most recent readings from December 2011. I'm not sure how that's going to translate "being hit with radiation 6 months later". However, I could tell you that the nuclear crisis is still on-going and the problem has not been fixed yet in the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants. Therefore, radiation is still being released. Although not as much as the initial hydrogen explosions which released a lot of radioactive particles into the air. The fear of "China Syndrome" is very possible as TEPCO is planning to build a "giant underground concrete tray" to contain the possible "melt-throughs" which could leak through and contaminate the soil and ground water. Also another thing to note is that as time passed, (although low) the Fukushima radiation has reached to places as far as Tokyo and Shizuoka. As long as the source (Fukushima Daiichi) is not contained, we should not be surprised that radiation levels could increase and spread further (also with the assistance of spreading around the debris nationwide and burning them to re-release to the atmosphere).
Also even places 300km beyond Chernobyl's radius are being hit by its radiation 20 years later. http://blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/k/i/p/kipuka/CHER22.jpg
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Not rocket science, perhaps someone knows why they are not doing as you suggest?
Perhaps it's due to political reasons? I'm sure the national government will receive a lot of positive feedback and support from the tsunami affected area for helping them getting rid of the debris. Also local governments from other prefectures receiving money on the side from the national government for accepting the debris should not be a surprise. As corruption happens anywhere around the world. I read a rumor/theory online saying that "the government is attempting to disburse the radiated debris around Japan in order to fend off future legal claims against the government by the Tohoku residents." I'm not sure if this is true but it does make sense and it is very probable because that is a lot of money to compensate the victims. Japan can't really say no to compensate victims like a communist/totalitarian nation could. Therefore they have to figure a way to beat the system. That's why once again I think this theory makes sense.
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0.612 microSv/hr is ten times lower than the expected radiation levels from flying from Kyushu to Tokyo
This is true. However, you forgot the fact that Cs-137, I-129/131, Pu, and Sr-89/90 which are common by-products of nuclear fission stay inside of human bodies when either ingested or inhaled. While you only get that certain elevated cosmic radiation from a single flight (1 time per flight), those radioactive particles accumulate and stay inside your body and continue to release radiation within your body 24/7 until they complete disintegrate.
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I think part of the problem is people see and hear "tsunami debris" but in their brain this gets translated to "RADIATION!!!!
Of course. It's logical to think like that because it is a fact.
Take a look at this map: http://gunma.zamurai.jp/pub/2012/0305Gmap.jpg
According to the map as of December 2011, all of those cities and towns that were affected by the tsunami are still being hit with radiation from the Fukushima fallouts.
the truth is that the tsunami affected a much wider area than the radiation from Fukushima did.
I agree with you. 15,954 people died, 3,271 people still missing, and 22,495,000 tons of debris generated as a result of the 2011 Tohoku earthquake and tsunami. We could clearly see how devastating the earthquake and tsunami was based on the numbers. How many people died due to the Fukushima radiation? Probably none or the number is very low that it becomes insignificant when compared to the death toll from the tsunami alone. That is because radiation doesn't kill immediately unless it's at a lethal high dose. That's why the tsunami appears to have a greater impact than the radiation. There wouldn't be immediate deaths due to low dose radiation; however, you should not be surprised with the increasing numbers of cancers that will pop in the future which will brings much suffering to the people affected by it.
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*basroil: Japan does have space to store the debris and that would be the exclusion zone established around the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant. That place is highly irradiated and uninhabitable for many generations to come anyway. In fact it is closer than almost all other prefectures they are trying to send the debris to (saves transportation fee). What the government is doing right now doesn't make any sense. The exclusion zone is the perfect place to store (not burn) the radioactive debris.
*Charles M Burns: They test the ash to ensure the public (the skeptical ones) that is safe enough to continue the burning of the debris.
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