DonDon comments

Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

I didn't realize they are religious cult. Doesn't matter because John Rabe estimates the death toll is 50000 to 60000 and most historians in Japan itself today also estimates around 40 000 civilians death toll.

Sorry, that still doesn't prove Nanking Massacre is propaganda. Nice cherry picking. You do realize that Japan have propaganda in America. As a matter of fact, Japan already has propaganda in America even before the war and spend like 2 million on propaganda in America. Japan, look yourself into the mirror before criticizing others of having propaganda.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

The revelation of all the all the original sources coming from paid propagandists is a very important one as it forces us to go back and re-assess "mainstream" beliefs as deliberately falsified.

There's non. Instead, it's the opposite. The people who claim revelation of original source come from paid propagandists are the same people who got sued and found tampering document. Men or women or children, doesn't matter becausethe amount of civilians death toll are much more than 129.

'These weren't soldiers, but civilians. Adults and children men and women. It was as if they filled the whole river. They flowed along slowly,like rafts. When I looked upstream, I saw a mountain of bodies that seemed to continue forever. From what I saw, there must have been fifty thousand bodies, and almost all of them were civilians' https://books.google.com.my/books?id=sszKBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT257&dq=These+weren%27t+soldiers,+but+civilians.+Adults+and+children+men+and+women.+It+was+as+if+they+filled+the+whole+river.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMI88zmr4j0xwIVzkyOCh1MHwBF#v=onepage&q=These%20weren't%20soldiers%2C%20but%20civilians.%20Adults%20and%20children%20men%20and%20women.%20It%20was%20as%20if%20they%20filled%20the%20whole%20river.&f=false

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

I am sorry but emotional single person points of view don't count for very much when you have highly extensive and accurate statistics, and evidence to work from.

There's no emotional single point of view. There is not a single highly extensive and accurate statistic. It just your dillusion. John Rabe for example estimated 50,000 to 60,000 death toll. Modern historians Ikuhiko Hata estimate 40,000 civilians death toll. Anyway, all estimates are around tens of thousands.

The problem with today's propangandists attempting to exploit yesterdays war time propaganda is that so much evidence now exists that contradictions their claims and illustrates the greater complexities.

This is getting dull and boring. Do you have better argument instead of repetitively saying propaganda, propaganda, propaganda, propaganda? Oh well, I guess it's my turn to mention propaganda too. No, there isn't a single one evidence that contradict with their claim. Up until no, it's NEVER happen.

On the other hand, people who claim Nanking Massacre is propaganda is the one who have contradiction. I saw your other post where the title is 'Abe urge China not to focus on unfortunate past' where you mention about mainstream history vs alternate/right wing history. Do you know why the alternate mainstream NEVER agreed by majority and mainstream history is still mainstream? It because the very same people who claim Nanking is propaganda is the one who has propaganda as they have been caught lying and falsifying documents for their propaganda. For example, Shudo Higashinakano been sued by Japanese court itself. Tanaka Maasaki, who wrote 'What really happened in Nanking' has been caught for tampering document. All the people who deny Nanking massacre found themselves in controversy. The Chinese doesn't even need to try to refute their argument. The Japanese people themselves will refute their argument and expose their lies. That is why the alternate history has NEVER been accepted by most people because the people who make those claims are the one really have propaganda. Even though the Japanese scholars already successfully refute them, Japanese right winger still like to post their wrong and unreliable argument in the internet to spread lies. Ironic isn't it? People who claim Nanking massacre is propaganda is the one that got caught for having propaganda. In the end, people who deny the killing of innocent Chinese civilians by Imperial Japan is nothing more than barking dog.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

Not all dead bodies are burried by Red Swatiska and civilians don't made up of women and children. In Nanking Massacre, men are in fact the target of the massacre. Watch this video. Confessions from former Imperial Japan soldiers and Nanking massacre survivor. One of the soldier claim it's quite easy to dispose thousands of people. It doesn't even take more than 30 minutes to do that.

The confession of Japanese military

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuiy-1LHJLc

Survivor From Nanjing Massacre (female)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWxMLCYekuU

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

If there are no mention of Nanking Massacre by Chiang Kai Shek, I guess that only man that it's not propaganda by KMT since if it is propaganda, Chiang would have mentioned it.

There are thousands of dead bodies in Nanking Memorial. Red Swatiska burried thousands of civilians bodies. There are also dead bodies thrown into the Yang Tze river.

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Posted in: Japan urges China not to focus on 'unfortunate history' See in context

@Hansaram I think he mean this one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo#Diplomatic_recognition To be more accurate, only 7 countries recognize which are not many. The other countries that recognize are under the influence from their German ally and Japan control.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

What's clear is a wide range of collusion between the foreigners in Nanking and both the Chinese nationalists, the German Nazi Pary (in the case of Rabe), and the Anglo-American super powers in cooking up an exaggerated propaganda war.

If you are saying there is exaggeration in death toll in Nanking, then I agree with you. Nanking Massacre, where thousands of innocent Chinese civilians got killed by Japanese soldiers definitely is real and truly happen.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

The research paper says in 1938, the International Department decided to widen it's activities in 1938 but it doesn't says Timperley is appointed in 1938.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

Timperley never work for Chinese Nationalist government. It's never been official confirmation. Your link says Timperley work in China for 11 years and become adviser to Chinese Ministry of Information in 1939 What War Mean is published on 1938..

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

Duh...the claim that H.J Timperley work for KMT is originally a claim made by Minoru Kitamura and such claim has receive criticism by other Japanese scholars. Recently, this claim has been revived by Saneki Shimbun, a famous right wing media so there pretty much no credibility there. It is said that H.J Timperley is one of the five head of London branch but somehow, they conclude he is from KMT just because of this.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

As someone major in history, I can guarantee you there is no Chinese soldiers killing Chinese civilians in Nanking Massacre.

Thanks for the clarification. I ask my Japanese friend in Japan and he also told me the same thing that in Japan, their textbook didn't mention about Chinese soldiers killing Chinese civilians(forcibly conscripted or not) in their textbook in Nanking Massacre but instead, the Japanese textbook clearly mention and admit that it's the Japanese soldiers that killed those innocent Chinese civilians.

Back to our Japan-German topic.

A German was arrested by Japanese Right-wing in Yasukuni Shrine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui7jrQTEFGU

A German interrogated the leader of Japanese Right-wing.The German told the Japanese right winger that he would be arrested for his speech(probably about worshiping war criminal and denying Japan war crime) if he's in German.The Right-wing force denied the truth and arrest the German.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

Sorry, you are off topic. We are discussing about the Nanking case, not the Yellow River which is geographically far away. Also the burden of proof lies upon claimant.

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Posted in: Japan urges China not to focus on 'unfortunate history' See in context

Perhaps they should since they missed out on the Treaty of Peace which based on you and Hansaram's definition, it's an unequal treaty.

With the mentality that Kazuaki Shimazaki portray, Japan is not a peaceful country after all. Don't worry, there's always future new treaties/alliance that can overwrite old treaties( Potsdam Declaration). After all, we always need to move on from the past right? Russia and China should ask Japan to sign new treaty. Russia take Kuril Island while China take Senkaku/Diaoyu Island. Or maybe they can just do more and take more land from the Japanese. Japan is weak while China and Russia are strong. So it make sense for Japan to kow tow to China and Russia demand/treaties. Japan is doomed. China make the right move by militarizing itself to prepare against Japan's threat.

@fw360 Why else you think Japan has been receiving more negative impressions from the German ever since Abe takeover Japan. http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Germany-dismayed-by-Japan-s-inability-to-move-on

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Posted in: Japan urges China not to focus on 'unfortunate history' See in context

Here are the facts of life. There are extremely few agreements in the world where the two sides are of equal strength, and because of this, the lines the agreement fall on will depend on the relative strength of the two sides. But a deal is still a deal. The concept of the "unequal treaty" really is only in China, and nevertheless is not an excuse to not follow it.

I guess China and Russia should just have military alliance and goes to war against Japan and make Japan sign unequal treaties. Russia take the northern part of Japan while China take southern part of Japan. Good thing Putin visit China military parade to improve relation between those two countries. Putin even called out Japan on glorifying it's war criminal.

The Russian leader also highlighted the International Military Tribunal for the Far East in the wake of recent remarks by Japanese leaders on the topic that drew heat from some quarters. http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/putin-calls-act-to-glorify-war-criminals-flouting-of-tokyo-tribunal

Even better, China and Russia have nuclear weapon while Japan don't. Japan is screwed. When China takeover Japan,China is not war aggressor but it only because Japan is weak. Oh, even China occupation on Tibet, China is not war aggressor but it because Tibet lost war. But then again, maybe China and Russia don't need military alliance. Japan are full of herbivore and virgin male, with it's low birth rate, it just a matter of time before Japan given it's share to China.

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Posted in: Japan urges China not to focus on 'unfortunate history' See in context

"China", in essence, did not exist. It was already divided and not in a federal form.

How does that equate Japan given it's share?

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

We are talking about the Nankign massacre right? I recall the one guy in youtube with username August Hayek who try to deflect Nanking massacre issues by mentioning Yellow River incident although I'm not the one arguing with him. The Yellow River incident however is failure of KMT policy. It's original intention is to use the Yellow River to kill the Japanese soldiers but mistake cause it to kill Chinese civilians. Yellow River is miles away from the Nanking.

burning down any shelter, any fuel, any crops or supplie - which killed millions of Chinese people.

Source? Citation?

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Posted in: Japan urges China not to focus on 'unfortunate history' See in context

This kind of attitude is never accepted by the global society and loses all credibility as a reliable partner.

You sure about that? Last time I check the League of Nations doesn't even recognize Japan occupation on Manchuria and it's the Japanese who got hit by embargo.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

There is only ONE objective truth and that is thousands of innocent Chinese civilians got killed and raped by Imperial Japan soldiers in Nanking. That's all. The Chinese soldiers did not killed Chinese civilians. Chinese soldiers did not commit war crime. Do not try to switch the blame to Chinese soldiers. The Chinese in fact lack of good leadership and make some questionable decision but they did not killed Chinese civilians. The Yijing gate incident is unrelated and independent incident to the Nanking Massacre.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

So you are saying there are two version and that is the real Nanking Massacre and propaganda Nanking Massacre version? Can I ask you a question first? Do you believe there are thousands of innocent Chinese civilians killed by Japanese soldiers in Nanking as that's what the real Nanking Massacre really is.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

Aah..another Nanking denier. Why am I not surprised . Sorry, you are the one who don't know anything then. Historians such as Jonathan Spence claim the massacre does occur though the death toll is very little.

China historian Jonathan Spence, for example, estimates that 42,000 soldiers and citizens were killed and 20,000 women raped, many of whom later died. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/11291820/China-holds-first-Nanjing-Massacre-memorial-day.html

Since you are historians, why don't you show me prove then that those massacre did not happen. Please provide evidence. Saying you study historians will not convince me. I remember the case of Nanking victim survivor, Xia Shuqin who went to Japan to sue a Japanese historians,Shūdō Higashinakano for saying Nanking massacre did not happen. Historians who claim Nanking massacre is a hoax got sued in Japanese court.Other Japanese historians such as Ikuhiko Hata claim that Nanking masssacre does occur although he put the death toll also lower, around 40 000 if I remember correctly reading his research. Show me proof that mainstream historian think there is no Nanking massacre. If making ad hominem or accusing AFP for being anti Japanese then you clearly got nothing to prove at all.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

Discredit? I already address it by saying Chinese soldiers killing Chinese soldiers, not Chinese civilians.

On balance, having looked a lots of evidence, there was no massacre as portrayed.

No massacre as portray? Do you mean no massacre at all or the massacre been over exaggerate? If it's the later, you might have a case but your credibility pretty much gone if you mean no Chinese civilians been killed and raped by the Japanese. Are you a historian and do you major in history?

Though some foreign academics put the number of deaths much lower, no respected mainstream historians dispute that a massacre took place.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/02/25/national/politics-diplomacy/china-mulls-holidays-to-remember-defeat-of-japan-nanjing-massacre/#.VeMXTvmqqkp

Most respected mainstream historians do not deny the massacre.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

Duh...you are talking about this article right? http://i.imgur.com/s3ZTCOW.png http://i.imgur.com/XUxn748.png

I already seen that LOOONG time ago. Please read again what I said.

There is no Chinese violence on Chinese civilians in Nanking.

The article you mentioned here is Chinese soldiers killing Chinese soldiers in the middle of panic. The Nanking massacre is about Chinese civilians. Totally different. The Chinese soldiers are not local. If you read the article, it says

Retreating troops were entering Nanking in apparently good order and good spirits Those Chinese soldiers in Naking are Chinese soldiers retreating from previous battle, probably from Battle of Shanghai retreating.

It's typical argument by Japanese right wing nationalists to lies and accuse Chinese soldiers who cause the death of those Chinese civilians. The Japanese right winger like to lies using this article to deflect and switch attention away from atrocities committed by their own Imperial Japan soldiers. I know this because I deal with a Japanese right winger nationalist who use this same argument before. Been there, done that.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

There is no Chinese violence on Chinese civilians in Nanking. Some photos are fake, doesn't mean, the Nanking massacre, where Japanese soldiers murdered and raped thousand of innocent Chinese civilians are fake. Just because China has distorting history, that does not mean Japan has the right to do so. Two wrong doesn't make one right. That is why German has negative impressions on Japan because unlike Japan, German accept it's atrocities and move on while Japan is unable to move on from the past and try to play down their atrocities.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

No one paint Abe as the devil. The point is Abe and Japan can do wrong things too and Abe attempt at distorting history is the one that cause German impressions on Japan to become negative. Japan WW2 atrocities are no way fabrication.

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

What makes you think Abe attempt at distorting history will not get bash by the west? Because everyone in the west in Japanophile? Come one, be real and wake up. This isn't a simple black and white issues as if Japan is pure white angel who can do no wrong while China is pure black devil who always do wrong things. It's gray for both China and Japan.

Abe attempt at distorting history has been a concern by USA.

It wasn’t until the U.S. Congressional Research Service issued a report in early May branding Abe a “nationalist” and warning that the controversy over historical issues could damage U.S. interests that Abe and the LDP went into serious damage control. Abe now says he fully accepts the apologies issued by previous administrations. http://nation.time.com/2013/05/20/sorry-but-japan-still-cant-get-the-war-right/

Not only the medias, but even US and German show concern on Japan inability to move on from the past.

Bashing Japan=/=supporting China

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Posted in: Germany's past and present ties with Yasukuni shrine uncomfortable for some See in context

It's not just China. In fact, China's late to the party and come wearing the wrong dress.

Just prove you know very little. China anti Japanese propaganda has been going on for a very long time and a lot more earlier. Stop thinking too much. There is no capitalist who favor relationship with China. Abe just did the wrong thing for trying to distorting history which is why he got bash. That's all. The media didn't bash Japan this much before Abe takeover.

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Posted in: Asia should put WWII behind it: Singapore PM See in context

@Mitsuo Matsuyama

You are not addressing the issues brought up by other members at all that is the fact that Japan did not move on when Japan deny their WW 2 atrocities. Instead, all you did is deflecting the issues.

When he said Asia should move on, he was meant to other Asians regarding Japan.

How do you know he mean other Asian except Japan? If you keep reading his other quotes, he also did say Japan need to stop denying it. Chances are, he mean both China and Japan.

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Posted in: Asia should put WWII behind it: Singapore PM See in context

Japan as well as the rest of whole Asia has already moved on.

Nope. Lying and whitewash about history is certainly not moved on.

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Posted in: Murayama urges Abe to follow his lead on war apology See in context

This decision comes after a group of 37 local assembly members complained that passages from “Kuni ga Moeru” (“The Country is Burning”) printed in the magazine’s Sept. 16 and 22 editions “distorted history” by describing Japanese soldiers massacring civilians in the Nanjing Massacre of 1937.

The politicians claim no such massacre took place. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2004/11/12/national/manga-account-of-nanjing-massacre-axed-amid-protests/#.VVrczdxmUbI

What a bunch of bullshit by the Japanese politician. Aww...man. I want to read the manga but too bad it's been ban.

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Posted in: More than 100 lawmakers visit Yasukuni shrine See in context

it only means that the winning side gets to decided who is a criminal and who is not.

Regardless of who won during the WW2, the fact remain Japan and Germany did more harm and committed war crime more than any other countries.

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