HeathenCabin comments

Posted in: Obama says economic stimulus bill vital to avoid 'catastrophe' See in context

To use a modern example, are you saying that governments have had no involvement in space travel? That everything done in going to the moon was all done in order to satisfy market needs? How about the Internet? That started out as a government project to connect computers together, completely funded by the government in the 1960s.

One can go back in history and see that, in order to make his way to the New World, one of the first things Columbus had to do was to seek a government handout.

t is you who simply don't know any better. Most basic research is done for the sake of pure knowledge, and a lot of the stuff that comes out of it individuals may not know how to apply for decades, if ever. Individuals and business work on much shorter time horizons and expect a more specific and definite return.

It is you, yes you yabits who does not know any better. You cannot see that all the funding and research, the sacrifices, came from the private markets in order to let the government succeed in going to the moon. The redirection/theft and destruction/reduction of available resources/capital/wealth/education funded it all, and it all came from the "private markets," or you know, the people who produce everything based on the want to be satisfied.

Columbus seeking a government handout- guess what again, it was funded by the individuals who are successful who pay taxes/were robbed to the government in its many different forms, even back then. Yes, you cannot see that the GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT STEALING IT FROM THE PRIVATE SOURCES/INDIVIDUALS/BUSINESSES. You only see the effect of government theft from other parts of the economy at the time, without realizing what might have been.

You think that government is good, that all advancements come from government, without even realizing that all the resources, all the wealth, has actually and will forever be the reason for success and failure of whatever you state the government needs/succeeds in doing. It is you who is delusional-

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Posted in: Obama says economic stimulus bill vital to avoid 'catastrophe' See in context

"Schumacher's "Small is Beautiful: Economics as if People Mattered."

Groovy stuff, man. I got my first copy when I was 16.

I have never heard of this- but searches make it out to be some type of environmentalist economic thought...

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Posted in: Obama says economic stimulus bill vital to avoid 'catastrophe' See in context

The "giants" that any individual stands on are the contributions of those who came before, especially the work done through basic research. Left to private individuals and corporations, very little basic research would ever get done, because the payoff period is just too long. Some of the personal giants in my life came about as the result of a government program to recruit and train the best math and science teachers in my state's high schools.

To say that a government can do nothing to enhance the wealth-producing capacity of a nation is to live in fantasyland. To assert that government can only destroy is delusional. We live under a debt of gratitude to those who came before us, that can only be repaid by making things better for those who will come after.

All of this is a fallacy- again you fail to realize that farming advances are done for the reasons of the individual, and the payoffs are benefiting society from the sacrifices of the individual(in this case producing more crops/foodstuffs to satisfy the society). Becoming efficient, in order to produce more to meet the satisfaction of the market. It only benefits everyone in the end- but most only look at the short term effects while never realizing the long term effects.

Without the individuals, and businesses, continuously striving for efficiency/gains/advances for human satisfaction of wants is what actually causes "basic research." You just do not see it, as all of the "basic research and gains" actually does come from the individuals/businesses for human satisfaction. All of the gains are from private individuals/businesses in some way or another you just never see the connection(the need for efficient travel->wheels=>sailing ships/carriages=>steam engines, and so on and so on, government did not invent nor create these things-and it is only 1 example at that!!!!).

Now, I never said a government can do nothing to enhance the wealth of the individuals within the nation. Government does only destroy, or reduce, or steal, or redistribute as it is government nature and is not delusional. Some real life examples- Nazis and Hitler, Stalin and the USSR, even the United States of America even. It happens through all the government wars, or central planning, manipulation, and again etc. as the list can be endless. You talk of making this better, but in reality it is all human action that leads to "making things better" fulfilling the satisfaction of that human desire/action-that in turn leads to wealth, efficiency, and the list goes on.

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Posted in: Obama says economic stimulus bill vital to avoid 'catastrophe' See in context

The fallacy behind this statement is that, if you have any optimism towards the United States at all, it grossly underestimates the future wealth-creating capacity of the nation. The greatest debt load (as a percentage of GDP) that the US ever took on was during WWII. And it was just as recently as 2000 that US was in a position where the Fed Chairman was warning about the dangers of paying off the national debt too quickly. Well, we can see the fallacy here. The US is not an individual. Individuals don't live for over 200 years and have nearly limitless wealth-producing capability. What "horse" out there is a better bet than the United States of America?

The United States of America cannot produce wealth, it is actually those "individuals" that produce wealth within it, if they were allowed to. So what you quote that are fallacies actually are not, yet what you state actually is a fallacy.

Obama cannot fix this mess, only make it worse while increasing job losses and destroying wealth/capital/jobs. Now people think that this money/resources are readily available, when it is not. The government can only redirect, take, or outright theft, the limited resources that the markets do have right now- and then gives that to some government scheme to "fix" the problem which in reality, and long term, creates even more problems. as 3006 has already said, the 'catastrophe' is literally the government, the government spending, and all the government intervention in the markets for the past 70 or more years.

Now Obama, and every other bureaucrat thinks that they-the government- need to re inflate a bubble. But this bubble was an expansion of credit through monetary manipulation, the real problem. When a normal "bubble" collapses, it is called a recession/depression-the cure. But the more the government prevents this(70 years of screwing things up at the least) the worse things get- and eventually the entire monetary system will collapse, taking all the malinvestments with it.

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Posted in: Obama says economic stimulus bill vital to avoid 'catastrophe' See in context

Obama cannot fix this mess, only make it worse while increasing job losses and destroying wealth/capital/jobs. Now people think that this money/resources are readily available, when it is not. The government can only redirect, take, or outright theft, the limited resources that the markets do have right now- and then gives that to some government scheme to "fix" the problem which in reality, and long term, creates even more problems. as 3006 has already said, the 'catastrophe' is literally the government, the government spending, and all the government intervention in the markets for the past 70 or more years.

Now Obama, and every other bureaucrat thinks that they-the government- need to re inflate a bubble. But this bubble was an expansion of credit through monetary manipulation, the real problem. When a normal "bubble" collapses, it is called a recession/depression-the cure. But the more the government prevents this(70 years of screwing things up at the least) the worse things get- and eventually the entire monetary system will collapse, taking all the malinvestments with it.

This is not just a republican problem, it is both parties problems.

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Posted in: Japan shares sharply down on U.S. economic worries See in context

Tokyo stocks rise on U.S. economic stimulus hopes

Oh yeah, government will fix everything! Whatever, go short as it will not last- make your money while you can and get out. The only way it could last would be another bubble in the making(HELLO US TREASURIES/maybe even Japanese Bonds). Either way this is a bounce, do not be fooled.

I stated that a few days ago.

“Optimism over Obama’s economic stimulus plan quickly evaporated in the face of the gloomy U.S. economic outlook,” he said, referring to President-elect Barack Obama’s proposal, worth $800 billion or more, to shore up the sagging economy.

Reality must be setting in but I doubt it. These idiots will keep championing government intervention until nothing is left.

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Posted in: Obama says trillion-dollar deficits may last years See in context

I also must say only the market can create jobs, and only the market can dictate wages. Work does not create wages, the market does. Only to see the person who produced to get taxed heavily to subsidize some idiot elsewhere in the economy since that person is unprofitable. Gotta love socialism and central planning.

Great Leader Barack Obama has decreed that no Jobs shall ever be lost!!!! Dear Leader has said everyone will have jobs!

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Posted in: Obama says trillion-dollar deficits may last years See in context

here is no way of continueing to run the country if we don't put out a lot of money. At least till we change our own conditions.

We've got to pay the debts that have been created the last 8 years.

We have to create jobs to put people back to work. Work creates wages, taxes and it gives money to spend in the community. Without the cycle of money, everything dies.

We're going to have to spend to find new sourses of energy. Petroleum has become a commodity that is too expensive, makes us reliant on foreign companies and can be substituted by other sourses of fuel.

Health care. It's come a time when we need to set up a program of health care that ensures that everybody has access to available and affordable. Everybody can't afford health care and those that can't need to be helped.

This is just a short list. We've gotten ourselves in so deep, we just can't quit digging.

I heard a republican leader complaining that the Obama plan will create debts that his grandchildren will have to repay. No, that was done during the last 8 years already. Now we have to dig to get us out from under those debts created by the republicans.

I'm just hoping that Barack Obama can get the parties together and that we can work together to create what's needed to work through the damage done. < :-)

You fail. You mean that the US needs to pay everything until "things change." Things will never change with what you propose. Paying the debts created in the last 8 years??? Where have you been? Did you not realise the debts since the late 60s? The US has always been in debt, and guess what, your socialist gift of social security/welfare/government handouts will literally drive the debt to levels you can never imagine! Seeing as how you fail to grasp that debt, financed by debt, does not pay for anything which means all of what you propose will only add to more debt!!! YOU FAIL!

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Posted in: Obama says trillion-dollar deficits may last years See in context

HeathenCabin: "Either way the US government should jump off a cliff, the results would be astounding."

Good idea. bush and co. SHOULD do this when they head out the door. The incoming government deserves a bit of a chance first before they're asked to do the same.

Actually, I really meant the entire government. Both Federal and the States. Every single government idiot should jump off a cliff. Then again everyone expects government to "fix" government created problems.

2010= 60+ trillion in debt. Not republicans fault, not democrats fault, straight up idiocy that governs fault.

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Posted in: What do you think of the government's plan to give a Y12,000 cash handout to members of the public in an effort to stimulate the economy? See in context

This is just idiotic. It will not work. Government is not needed to fix the problems that the government created... The japanese government is stupid, the whole lot. Of course these idiots believe that they can fix everything with magic yen(that is stolen from those that produce the real wealth).

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Posted in: Obama says trillion-dollar deficits may last years See in context

Print prosperity, Obama Dollars!

Yeah trillions upon trillions in debt- this money will just magically come out of the air! Or the countries/people of the world continue to finance US debt- which I do not think is going to continue. Too bad the government just does not understand that it will take doing something severe and drastic like reduce spending by an insane amount, get rid of laws/regulations, decrease government size, sound currency, not debt backed notes, no more taxes. In fact I wonder how that is going to work out, with everyone paying high taxes while losing jobs! Either way the US government should jump off a cliff, the results would be astounding.

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Posted in: Obama predicts quick OK on economic rescue plan See in context

So HeathenCabin since george bush/republicans started two wars, deregulated the stock markets, gave away $4Trillion to the top 1% of the population, worked hard to get 7% unemployment and created this 8.4 Trillion defit.

Since we can't spend our way out of this, your suggestion is what? < :-)

If your want real numbers, it is far beyond 8.4 trillion, 12 trillion, its probably beyond 50 trillion-some say with all the "government obligations" added up from future commitments it is past 80 trillion. So how do you spend money that does not exist?

Obviously you think that this is all a Republican problem, and it is not though Republicans what I would call "lesser socialists." Everyone probably thinks that spending money (that has to be borrowed, on top of already borrowed magic money) will fix this. People make the mistake of claiming that the stock market was deregulated- the market is not a free market, the government intervenes and screws everything up, not to mention ever increasing regulations/laws! People think socialism will work, well guess what the US is a socialist state and it is failing! Now everyone will champion in more state intervention, more socialism only to have more severe problems later on then some idiot will be crying for more government help, again, just like always.

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Posted in: Obama predicts quick OK on economic rescue plan See in context

Obama predicts quick OK on economic rescue plan

The only thing this will insure is more problems. SushiSake3 thinks that it is 6 trillion, its actually above 8.4 trillion now. You cannot spend your way out of recession when the whole system is a scheme. The government thinks it can solve all the problems that it created, all the problems that it built on central planning of the banking system.

Go ahead Obama, just print till everything is magically fixed!

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Posted in: Aso rejects calls to resign, saying he has to lead Japan out of recession See in context

Well what have we here? I called the government stupid, idiotic, and everything that it does will fail unless it drastically reduces spending, taxes, regulations, and gets out of the market. SO that means Aso is an idiot. People think that the government needs to spend more, just where does this magical money come from? OH that is right, the government will just print prosperity! NOT.

Keep printing, while robbing everything through taxation and see where that ends up- I am sure Dear Leader Taro Aso knows everything! HE IS DEAR LEADER OF NIPPON!

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Posted in: Automakers grab loans, look to Obama White House See in context

Many countries being China, Japan, anything in asia. How did this affect the situation at hand? Americans bought things they could never afford to pay back, like car loans.

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Posted in: Automakers grab loans, look to Obama White House See in context

Your use of the term "government" obscures the role of different branches of the government and doesn't illuminate much because it leaves "politics" out.

Government is government, "illumination" is not needed. It is that simple. I just made the connection that president=government. Congress gave a blank check to other parts of government, no surprise there.

Central Planning=Central Bank. IT IS THE SAME. Government controls the money, and credit. IT IS CENTRAL PLANNING. It does not matter which part of the economy is controlled by the government, it all ends up the same with the same result. Government controls the market, market fails. PERIOD. Look at the situation right now, how can you not make the connection?

Now, you go on to state how China bought US debt which enabled the US to continue to spend without regard. This is true. But many other countries purchased debt, mostly in Asia and the Middle East I think. But the problems go back further than 2 administrations. Inflating the money through the central bank(of america, or any other country for that matter) for 30+ years will lead to dire consequences. We are experiencing some of these consequences right now. Either way when everyone stops buying government debt, its default or hyperinflation, probably both.

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Posted in: Automakers grab loans, look to Obama White House See in context

I also cannot believe that you stated that because the president bailed the comps out that it isnt government, cause its not Congress. Laughable at best. The president did not stop being government overnight.

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Posted in: Automakers grab loans, look to Obama White House See in context

Indeed. Why should the banks that made the bad loans be bailed out and not the homeowners facing foreclosure? I recently read that lifting the capital gains tax on home sales back in 1997 contributed to the housing bubble since it encouraged investors to plow money into real estate. In short, buying and selling homes through "flipping" became a "get rich quick" activity.

While a steady drop in prices may appear beneficial to consumers, it's a disaster for those, both businesses like the auto industry and individuals, carrying large amounts of debt. Under these circumstances, it becomes very difficult to pay off those debts because it's so difficult to increase your earnings. Salaries are stagnant and people don't spend.

Obviously you cannot make the connection that all problems lead back to government(all roads lead to Rome?), and government created "solutions." Bailing out these auto companies comes from government, just like bailing out banks. A drop in prices is nothing but government fed BS, or "modern economic lies." Like prices dropping in computers, cell phones, TVs, or anything else for the matter stopped people from purchasing those products. People did not stop buying cars either, the only thing that changed was all the CREDIT that everything used from the expansion, or boom, can no longer inflate the prices! The MONEY SUPPLY is expanding, rapidly. These effects are all from government planning, central planning IE Central Banks and government monopoly of currency/banks. The effects are far reaching, far beyond cars and car companies. I am sure the mod can delete my post just to fit your views just like last time when I outlined many, many government programs that lead to the rapid increase in credit,loans, many many things.

Now, George Bush is an idiot, and a socialist. The fact that you mention authority that increased for the executive branch is extremely important though. President(Government) Bails out Auto companies. Who knows what will happen with Obama at the reigns, it will be disastrous though.

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Posted in: BOJ cuts key interest rate to 0.1% to try and boost Japan's economy See in context

Government cuts the rate. The market decides the worth of the yen. The government intervenes. People who saved money, lose money/are robbed of worth. Gotta love government, screwing people over time and time again! Dear Leader Taro Aso has decreed this pleases him and the Japanese Government greatly.

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Posted in: Automakers grab loans, look to Obama White House See in context

A free market assumes a level playing field.

There is no longer, nor has there been, a free market in the US. Now the government just decided to bailout the auto companies, what about everyone else that lost jobs-they will be lining up to feast on the government teat.

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Posted in: Rioters clash anew with Greek police in Athens See in context

Well, look what we have happening in Greece. The people have had enough with government, enough with anything to do with corrupt government. The teenager getting shot was putting fire to gasoline, pent up anger with the government literally exploded. This will be happening worldwide in more countries. Even the US.

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Posted in: Japanese consumers enjoy benefits of strong yen See in context

Have no fear, as the Japanese government has decreed that a strong yen is not in the interest of Dear Leader Taro Aso. So Japan will keep printing with the japanese printing press, until the currency loses all value. Keep in mind most people are only looking at the value to other currencies on the world market. Other countries have also printed alot of money.

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Posted in: In view of the worsening global economic crisis, is capitalism a failure? See in context

Capitalism never failed. Government central planning is what has failed, like it always does.

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Posted in: Gov't to boost moral education for young people See in context

Parents fail at parenting. Apparently the J-gov thinks it can be a parent, what a disaster waiting to happen.

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Posted in: Japan's recession worse than thought See in context

All of the affects of what Japan has been doing since the asset bubble has been completely idiotic. The only reason the country is afloat is because it has industry, and can produce useful products. Now it will be interesting to see how more government interference/intervention will further cause a deep depression. Japan never recovered from the first asset bubble, I doubt anything will help with the current collapse.

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Posted in: Congress sends White House auto industry bailout proposal See in context

The expansion of credit/debt was enormous, and it leads to the government inducing the boom in the supply of credit that led to increased car sales (from the big 3) that would vanish when all the phony wealth vanished when the credit bubble started collapsing.

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Posted in: Sony cutting 8,000 jobs amid global downturn See in context

We never here of the government slashing 50,000 government employees and reducing all taxes/spending drastically.

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Posted in: Zenchu See in context

Either the farmers produce what the market wants at the price the market dictates, or they fail. But now we have the government that dictates what the market wants, and at which price the products are purchased. In the depression that is coming this is insanity.

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Posted in: Congress sends White House auto industry bailout proposal See in context

I'm not really sure people know how to restore economic growth in a way that will create jobs. The post-industrial cheap credit cheap imports model has been exhausted. In the process, China has accumulated some two trillion in US dollar reserves. We will be looking at them to finance our stimulus package, including an auto industry bail-out, in addition to their own, intended to stimulate domestic demand, which they will need in the wake of plummeting demand from the US market.

The government should reduce laws/taxes/spending/size drastically and get out of the market. Let the collapse happen, get out of the way. Instead the government will continue trying to prop up companies that the market is trying to flush out, so all those workers in the auto plants can continue making products that no one wants to purchase.

The government was and is the cause of all of these problems, what makes anyone think that the government can fix the mess it created?

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Posted in: Congress sends White House auto industry bailout proposal See in context

You mean it can get more horrendous than this??? As usual on JT, people making the point that government intervention is bad for a free market economy. Well, the idea that excessive intervention and damaging policies are bad is accepted by everybody, the difference is in how you define excessive. But I fail (as usual) to see how all that is relevant to this issue. The idea that government intervention can damage a free-market economy has nothing to do with the question of what a government should do when companies have screwed themselves all on their own, and the free-market economy itself has been damaged. Not saying the "No" side is wrong, just how about some better reasons for saying no.

Of course it can get much worse than now, and it will. Any central planning by governments cannot work, period. Government manipulation of currency/monetary policy that creates a bubble, a credit bubble through low interests rates for example(real world example). People consume stuff through credit, buying stuff that they cannot afford(houses, property, cars, etc.). Now you were saying:

The idea that government intervention can damage a free-market economy has nothing to do with the question of what a government should do when companies have screwed themselves all on their own, and the free-market economy itself has been damaged.

The free market, is non existent. There are many regulations and laws that interfere with the market, on top of government interference for example like bailing out banks! You think people want to invest in failing companies, then why should the taxpayer have to pay for a company that needs to fail. It is simple, do not rob Toyota/taxpayers(through taxes/regulation) to pay for GM/Washington Mutual. And it has everything to do with what a government should do when a company screws itself, which is NOTHING, let it fail!

The fact that you think the free market has damaged itself is ludicrous! The market is correcting itself from all the insane government laws, regulations, taxation, and manipulation(loans/credit to people who cannot afford them, companies that have alot of debt). Central planning again always fails! Let the Big 3 autos die.

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