JackBerstein comments

"He slammed the hundreds of civilian deaths in Hamas-ruled Gaza during Israel’s recent 22-day offensive, but said his anger was directed not at the Jewish people, rather “the practices of the Israeli government."

The great majority (ca. 90%) of Israelis were supporting this slaughter the whole time. But I agree his anger should not be directed at the Jewish people in general as Israel does not represent Jews.

grafton,

Sabiwabi wrote"And yes, if a man had his entire family murdered by the IDF, I can understand him wanting to kill IDF soldiers. Is that so unreasonable?"

Are you saying if the IDF kill a man's entire family, it would be unreasonable for him to want to kill an IDF? Is that what you're saying?

And Sabiwabi does not say it was a Mossad operation, he's just raising the possibility: "I'm not 100% certain, but this does stink of Mossad."

I happen to agree with sabiwabi (surprise, surprise!).

Hamas are the weapons smugglers & they also want to monitor the crossings. And they wonder why nobody wants them there.

Hamas happen to be the only one's who are not in Israel's pocket. Abbas looks like he has been bribed or blackmailed.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the bombing, but Ramattan, a Palestinian news agency, later released a video of the roadside bombing allegedly filmed by militants it did not identify.

So why does the title say "Hamas bombing"? It could be Mossad for all we know.

It seems most of this "debate," if it can be dignified with that word, is focused on finger-pointing. It should be pointed at solutions and verifiable results. Let's get "israel" to follow all its obligations under 70+ UNSC resolutions, and then we'll execute its war criminals under international law. Simple.

I'll second that!

Not quite true

= does not agree with what Israel wants you to believe.

In addition Hamas also states that their final goal is to take back all of Palestine

Try Googling "greater Israel" and you'll see Israel's final goal. The media doesn't mention this, but its clear what their goal has been.

I am assuming (correctly I hope) that since sabiwabi's post has been up and not removed for 4 hours

Why are you surprised that his post was not removed? I don't know if what he says is true, but he offers some interesting points not heard on the news. And Finklestein is highly respected, why don't we see him on the news instead of the usual clueless "experts". If what he says is true, it would explain a lot.

The BBC has given free air time to previous appeals by the Disasters Emergency Committee, an umbrella for groups including the Red Cross, Oxfam and Save the Children. The appeals have raised millions of pounds for victims of war and natural disaster in Congo, Myanmar and elsewhere.

But they refuse to help the victims of Gaza and, two years ago, Lebanon. Gee, I wonder why. Northlondon, seems to be onto something.

I believe you can see that both Israeli soldiers & Palestinian fighters are named. Let's not make this another one sided event. Partial truths are just a flat out lie.

Agreed, but we constantly hear from the media and from this forum that Hamas was using its civilians as shield. And I know that I never heard from the news that Israel frequently uses Palestinian civilians as shields. So because, as you stated, "partial truths are just a flat out lie", the I decided to point this out.

sorry bushlover, but what Amnesty International has documented is definitley considered using human shields. Israel has done it for many years, look it up. You won't see it on the usual news channel, so you'll have to look a bit harder.

No side lacks fault here. Maybe Israel was careless and killed too many civilians... maybe Hamas used civilians as human shields.

Amnesty International has confirmed that Israel has been using Palestinian civilians as human shields in the past years and in this recent conflict.

telling them they should die because they are Jewish

Nobody is criticizing people for being Jewish. Jewishness has nothing to do with it. These people are being criticized because they represent or support the racist, terrorist, genocidal state of Israel.

why aren't these racist Palestinians going back to there countries?

Because Israel will not let them exercise their internationally recognized right of return.

Loki, this is not about rockets. Anyone who has completed grade school should have figured that out by now. They want all of Palestine, and they want all Palestinians to leave or quietly accept that their state is being wiped out.

didn't know Paki was derogatory. Even heard them call themselves that here in Tokyo.

I always felt it was derogatory. But then again, I can't see how it would be any different from calling someone an Aussie, which for some reason is acceptable. I guess its not the word itself, but the context in which it is used.

Sailwind, Gazans need weapons for selfdefense. Israel needs them for land depopulation and expansion, and they use them even against their own allies (the U.S.). Big difference. If you haven't noticed, Palestine is being wiped off the map.

VOR, very true, for once I agree with you. Thank you for sharing with us a comment that was addressed to you. Much appreciated.

The joke is that Israel once poured money into Hamas thinking a religious organization would be a antidote to the PLO." And more of a joke, the entire existence, the whole reason Hamas was ever born was for the sole purpose of the destruction of Israel.

Israel needs enemies. Without them, they cannot continue to expand.

"Americans, and others, should seriously ask themselves whether they should continue to provide weapons and financial aid to a country that avoids signing on to such conventions and that continuously disregards "customary laws of war"."" Have their enemies signed on to these customary laws of war? (just a question)

My point is that Americans and others who provide military and financial aid to Israel are also responsible for this war crime. If they are decent human beings, they should demand that their governments completely stop supporting Israel.

Its like handing your car keys to someone who is obviously drunk or hiring a known pedophile to babysit your kids. You are partly to blame.

Don't you know yet that that's only wrong when it's AGAINST the US, not when it's the people they sell said weapons too. Hehe

I guess we shouldn't tell them about the USS Liberty then. Hehe.

Israel is not party to a convention regulating its use.

Americans, and others, should seriously ask themselves whether they should continue to provide weapons and financial aid to a country that avoids signing on to such conventions and that continuously disregards "customary laws of war".

Nothing you want to admit about Hamas and their importing of weapons?

Does Israel import weapons? Yes, more than most countries.

Does Israel use these weapons responsibly? No, worse than most countries.

Do Palestinians need weapons for self-defense? They are in desperate need of defense.

When whole villages and cities are systematically wiped out, when the number of dead reaches and exceeds 100k, then you can start crying about Genocide.

Countless Palestinian villages have already been wiped out; where have you been? The death toll just from the past few weeks is around 800, I wonder how many died in the past 6 decades of this genocide.

But when Israel is doing its best to avoid civilian casualties,

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

Instead of poking the big guy with a pin, why didn't they call for help diplomatically???

Tried that, many times. Americas veto power seems to always get in the way though.

Superlib, instead of having the TV in the background and reading headlines, you should pay attention to the spin. Although, as I admitted, the media appear to have woken up a bit, their spin still tells me Hamas, the terrorists, are responsible for this.

Considering the stuff Isreal is doing now, its getting hard to put a completely pro-Israeli spin on it, but they still try. What they show on the news is still nothing compared to what is actually going on in Gaza. If the news was truly unbiased, the world would be screaming much louder than it is today.

Honto, Jack?

Attarimae jan!

Superlib, But what started this conflict was Hamas rockets (the pin), right?

I admit that news channels in recent days has let a few moments of decency slip by (Rosemary Church, Amanpour), probably because they want to keep at least some credibility in this conflict. But where has the media been for the past decades, while the heavy dude was sitting on the guy. The Palestinian situation never received decent coverage. Even today, we still get c-nts like Jim Clancy defending Israel, constantly whining about how the Israelis have suffered so much.

Why would you stick a pin into a big, heavy dude?

A better question is why doesn't anyone ever try to get the heavy dude off the guy?

Moderator: No more on this analogy please.

However, the Gazan side of the border and its waters and its airspace should be controlled by Gazans.

There is no reason why the Palestinians should accept anything less.

Its sad that the world has remained silent so long.

Oops...the IDF has admitted that there was no fire from the school they shot at and the footage of the gunman in the building was from 2007; the slaughter continues.

This is one more oops, in their very long list of oops. I am surprised anyone still takes them seriously.

A big, heavy dude was sitting on me and I stuck a pin in his b@tt whereupon he turned on me and used his brass knuckles on my face and broke my jaw. I could have avoided that if only I hadn't used my pin.

Unfortunately, friends of the heavy dude control the news, so most people only hear about you sticking a pin... (or about a pin-sticking extremist breaking his own jaw).

Broken bones and never hit back? I think that the marine showed a commendable self-control,

Or he was too pissed drunk to realize what was going on.

Since Israel always ignores ceasefires anyway, why bother? One sided as always

Of course. This is a one-sided conflict. The Palestinians are the victims and the Israelis are the aggressors. This is not just 2 groups who can't get along. Wake up!

the pro Hamas people on this page (aka anti semites)

For your information, the Palestinians (and Hamas) are Semites. The great majority of Israelis are not Semites.

We sell them our weapons, but it's Israel pulling the trigger.

The US (and others) sell weapons to Israel knowing full well what they will use them for. The US also provides vetos against UNSC resolutions, and they provide the generous financial incentives to encourage Jews from all over the world to settle in Palestine (AKA Israel).

Since both Hamas and Israel have rejected calls for a ceasefire (according to BBC TV), it seems both sides want to continue the fight...

Since Israel always ignores ceasefires anyway, why bother? Hamas also wants the illegal blockade to stop, which Israel wants to keep in place.

You really need links for this kind of thing?

What? You don't believe it, or is it because its too obvious?

Sabiwabi,

To understand why leaders make such claims, one must realize that much of the billions of dollars in aid given to Israel finds its way back to the donor country where it is used to bribe politicians.

I had read that a few times before, a long time ago, but I don't remember where. Do you have a link or something I could read up on, to confirm and learn the details.