In the end the radioactive isotopes produced by those coriums will eventually spread all over the place . There is no way men can contain somtething with a half life of hundreds of thousands of years . We can try to contain some of it for a short while but in the long run nothing man made can last that long . There is no solution to radioactive waste ( and the coriums ) and all they ever did untill now has been keeping it out of sight and out of mind but we are not ostriches and those are not solutions . Dumping radioactive waste into the oceans , into landfills , , building icewall s are NOT SOLUTIONS !!! These are temporary 'feel good ' choices so that we can feel as if something is getting done .
There is only one solution and that is to stop producing more radioactive waste ,,, to stop nuclear industry totally . That can only be achived if people get informed and stop believing the pronuke propaganda they get from the media and the governments . Pronuke propganda can make some people rich ,, can even help some win elections even but in the long run we all loose .
-2 ( +1 / -3 )
spucky The icewall can only solve "a part of the problem " if it works , and that s a big IF . Not everyone believes that it would work .
There is a continuous flow of underground water into the site so the site is saturated with water and when they block that water flow it is normal to expect SOME sinking of the plants , but how much they are going to sink is just a guess since this kind of problems have never happened before ,, simply nobody knows. It is definitely not fear mongering ,experts agree that it could sink ,, what they dont agree on is how much it would sink .
It is a big experiment and nobody knows the outcome and the worst part is , its all left to TEPCO to deal with , ,,we all know how capable and honest they are so better keep our fingers crossed, .
-2 ( +1 / -3 )
I believe they get more out than they put in
i am referring to the units themselves , and as total balance . You are right in the end balance is in PLUS ofcourse for the site since they have to put all the extra water in those tanks , but that water is not coming only from what they pump in ,, underground water is feeding it as well and you need take that into calculations . In units themselves , unfortunately there are still a lot of leaks ( which they still keep discovering ) and a lot of highly radioactive water is leaking out into the groundwater and eventually into the sea ,( thus negative balance ) ,and that s what i meant , they keep LOOSING a lot of conatminated water into the environment and eventually into the sea NOT GAINING !!!
So to make a long story short , they are LOOSING water instead of gaining it as you claim ,, and all that lost water is highly contaminated and going into the sea , so the total balance is a MINUS ,, not a PLUS . In fact they even know how much they are loosing,, around 300 tons according to TEPCO themsleves. You just need take into your considerations , the amount of water running into the site by the undferground river as well . Unless you do that you are miscalculating and misinforming . There is no gain but loss of water , and all that LOST water is going straight into the ocean as highly contaminated water. .
You are getting ( giving) the wrong impression by thinking they get MORE out then they put in, cause you dont take into account that there is an underground water addign to it continuously . it is in fact the opposite , they LOOSE about 300 tons of it everyday ( and even that is a mild estimation according to some scientists ) . No GAIN but loss ,, gone ,, into the sea ,, every day ,, 300 tons of it .
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
It can never stop the water completely because they keep pumping in water themselves to "COOL'THE CORES ( WELL CORIUMS ACTUALLY ) to keep them cool . How effective that is nobody knows. They cant even tell where the coriums are and how much water is in contact with which part where etc etc . SO they keep pouring hundreds of tons into this huge mess with leaks all over the place , they pump it in from one side and they try to recouperate it from the other ,, what happens in between nobody knows ,, but they keep loosing water , they know it cause the amount they get out of it less than they put in it . So it leaks ,, that they know .
The Icewall is supposed to block clean water coming in from the hill behind entering the site and creating even more polluted water , but even IF ( and that s a big IF ) it would work , the amount they are pumping in will not change , and they will still keep producing polluted water . Where will all that water eventually go is a subject they dont like to talk about but in the end it will go into the ocean ,, they are just trying make us get used to this idea ,, in time .
The cost of the icewall is ofcourse a big issue but technically it is just an experiment and nobody kn0ows if it will work , and even if it does it doesnt solve the whole issue ,but only a part of the problem Fukushima is a huge experiment ,, and we are the guinea pigs ,, whether we want it or not ,, unfortunately .
1 ( +3 / -2 )
“You simply can’t decontaminate a wide area in Fukushima and make it a place where people can live again,” Arakida says in the manga. “This is the truth of Fukushima,”
Equality ; well said , great comment .
Kent Mcgraw ; AGreed ,, if i may add,, comics are also a way of expressing ones opinions/ ideologies in countries where there is no press freedom and are popular in many other countries except from japan as well .
2 ( +4 / -2 )
kaimychal That is misinforming ,, there is absolutely no way concrete or any material would limit / reduce radiation in homes . Radiation is carries by tiny particles at atomic level by isotopes . In fact most of the times homes act as collectors of those particles and indoors you will have higher levels than outdoors . It is not like a ray that you could block but its just in the air in the dust ,, and concrete has absolutely no effect on that .
Itsonl;yrocknroll It is true that these people are really being pusshed to their limitsd , and have been suffering so much since the beginning of this disaster and its understandable that they would want to go back ,, they would want to turn the clock back and go back to how it all was ,, but these are emotional decisions and they are wrong ,, people shouldnt be forced to make these choices ,, japan as a developed country should be able to provide these people with a decent life elsewhere. It is a shame that people are still suffering and being forced to go and live in contaminated areas . Its just wrong .
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
Jason We need much more space than our bodies occupy ,, those vast spaces are misleiding ,,if you like to know / calculate how much land is needed to support just one person , living a decent quality of life , we have already passed the point where the world can support us . Hence all the environmental issues and global warming and water shortages , energy crisis etc etc etc . We should not be concerned about the population shrinkage in SOME nations ,,on the contraray we should be VERY concerned about the unstopable population growth . All of the above problems are directly linked to population growth and that makes it the biggest threrat to humanity .
About the diseases and age of mother ,, it is generally accepted that 35 years old is just about the highest age a woman should be adviced to have kids when only mothers age as health risk is concerned .
I think sooner or later somehow we must make rules to limit the number of children one can be allowed to have since there seems no way around it . China s one child policy is beginning to sound more and more logical as the population is growing faster and faster . I think we have no other choice and more countries will have to apply similar rules in the future. .
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
itsonlyrocknroll Can you blame them ,, look at the faill s by tepco from day one ,, i mean everything that could go wrong has been going wrong ,, its like the murphy s law itself . There are ongoing efforts to contain the leakge but they are not succesfull ,, even tepco admits hundreds of tons of polluted water leaking daily into the environment ,, so its not real safety but just FEELING safe as you oput it .
0 ( +1 / -1 )
Population growth is the biggest threat to humanity and these kinds of reports are very misleiding . World population is in growth and unless something drastic is done we will not survive this population explosion .
0 ( +1 / -1 )
semperfi Free deliveries are known to reduce the radiation and ease the pain ,, ;)
-3 ( +0 / -3 )
spucky There is another article here on japantoday about tepco getting sued by the workers,, you should check it out . and with that , i thing enough is said . Peace.
-4 ( +0 / -4 )
It doesnt surprise me (and many others ) that tepco is getting sued somehow ;)
-3 ( +0 / -3 )
I explained the best solution ,, to get experts involved and not let it all to tepco to deal with it , cause tepco dont seem to be capable of dealing with it . That is not only my personal opinion but also experts from other countries agree on one thing , tepco is making a huge mess out of the situation from day one and they are not capable of dealing with this disaster .
Too many cooks spoil the broth ,, true but at least lets get some 'cooks' deal with it ,,not someone who doesn't know how to cook at all :)
-4 ( +0 / -4 )
Water is a good isolation for radiation but also water is a big problem in fukushima because of underground pollution and that s why they are trying to build the icewall . Whole problem about icewall is the water contamination , no matter what you claim , how good the water isolates etc etc .You need to get informed . leakage of radioactive isotopes into underground water and from there into the ocean is the whole issue here and that s why they are hoping icewall to prevent that . Water carries radioactuive isotopes in it and thus carries the radioactivity with it as well , into underground water resources and eventually into the ocean .
They are HOPINg to prevent that with the icewall cause nobody knows if it will work or not . It s a huge experiment , never done before . In fact many experts think that it would not work but Tepco seems to be pushing it as a solution ignoring all the risks .
I am sorry but i have lost my confidence in tepco and their way of dealing with the fukushima problem , long ago and i would prefer this job would be taken off their hands. Cabt say more cause my comment will get deleted again .
Icewall is being seen as the MAGIC SOLUTION to solve the issued with fukushima ,, its understandable cause people are desperate and they want to see solutions ,, but just because we want it , it doesnt mean it is going to happen or that icewall is the solution .
As i said earlier , this is too big of a problem for tepco ,, there needs to be an international effort , with involvement of experts and businesses , experienced people to solve these kinds of enormous problems . It seems they are more interested in public image than real solutions in my opinion . Peace
-6 ( +0 / -6 )
Spucky //// you misunderstand the Plan, the Icewall is not there to keep the Radioactivity inside, it is a Protection to avoid the Contamination of the Groundwater with the inside Water from the Cores!///
Doesnt it come down to the same thing ? We can play with the words but Contamination with what ? of course radioactive isotopes ,,wherever isotopes leak there you will have radiation . Isotopes are carrying the contamination with them ,, so it comes doan to the same thing . I think you are confusing contamination with chemical contamination ,, it will be a barrier with outside underground water and inside radioactive water simply put . But what are we even discussing here ,, it is to block radiatioactive isotopes leaking into the undergraound water ( or clean underwater coming in contact with radioactuive water ) either way ,,its the same thing .
/// The Gas Analysis are readable at Tepcos Homepage but i forgot the exact name of the Files, maybe inside of the final Report, or somewhere!////
Exactly , Tepco says so ,, i stopped following tepco long agio for reliable information ,, guess why ? :))
///They provide also the Plan for the Icewall, maybe you look for it too to erase your Misconceptions!///
No misconceptions here ,, explained above ,, contamination with isotopes means radioactivity getting carried with them , misconceptions are not mine , get yourt facts right ,, ;)
///Fukushima is since Day One under a international Supervision (US, UK, France and one more) but the final Word belong to Tepco who are very experienced with NPS, they have/ had Problems but this happened everywhere, it js a huge Company who done great Work after the Tsunami,,,,, ///
Woooowww i would think you should be working for tepco ,,great defence ;) ,, you dont need to tell anyone how GREAT they have been managing this whole crisis ,, and i have no intentions of discussing tepco s successes and failures here ,, anyone who has been following this whole incidence mucst have pretty good idea about that . Mishaps ,, misinformation ,, hiding measurements ,, giving false info ,, web is full of there incompetences if you can do some search ,, and its amazing they are still in charge ,,, nuclear lobby must be very strong ,,
/// your favorite Website do not mention all their sacrifices because it is against their Agenda!///
I dont have a favorite website ( except from my own homepage lol ) but i learned not to get into discussions with anyone defending / praising the great work tepco have been doing ,,, take good care ,, peace :)
-5 ( +0 / -5 )
spucky You are right there is no evidence of where the coriums exactly are ,, its all assumptions at the moment , about this statement ///They can't be in the Ground because we would see a different Melange of Gases,/// do you have any link about that ? Is that for all 3 of the coriums ? thanks .
Most of the information what i could find was that coriums are most probably melt through s , and that they are in the ground . Of course , all are assumptions , experts trying to "guess '' where they could be ,, and most think that they have already left the buildings but nobody has been able to locate them yet , let alone dealing with them .
I havent heard/ read anywhere M. Kaku correcting his statememnts , but in the end what i mean is , the situation is still very critical , at the plant . Not only about the coriums but the fuel pools which are the biggest threat to cause another catastrophy . Specially on the units with molten coriums underneath , it is impossible to do any work or to remove any fuel from them . That poses the biggest threat by another big earthquake .
I dont know if icewall is the way to go ,, some experts say it is the only option at the moment ,, others think it wouldnt hold the radiation ,, it s all a big experiment . In my opinion the problem is not whether to build the icewall or not ,, the problem is to form a multinational multidisciplinary commite , bring all the bright minds from universities,, people who have experience in the business ,,and try to evaluate different idea s solution s, test them ,, and try to find the best approach . This is not a job for Tepco ,, it is far above their capabilities and every day lost increases the risk of another catastrophe to happen .. Lets not forget that there are still huge amounts of nuclear material in those fuel pools , and sooner later another earthquake is going to hit the site ,, and once that happens nobody will even be able to go anywhere near those plants let alone do any work on them ,,the whole area will turn into a disaster zone , many times worse than what it is now ,, what are they waiting for ?
-5 ( +0 / -5 )
Spucky Even if they would fix the cracks / broken parts it wouldnt help much cause coriums are outside the buildings most probably , and those are the real problems , not the buildings themselves as far as i know . Although nobody is able to locate the coriums , ( units 1 2 and 3 ) most probably they have melted through and they are laying undrneath those plants , in the ground , outside the building / strucutre ,, so fixing buildings wouldnt help much .
Well sadi , public opinion is saturated with m,isinformation ,, partly because of tepco s incopetence ,, partly because deliberatley hiding/ delaying information not to cause too much panic ,, partly becasue there is a very strong pronuke bias considering eco0nomical consequences etc etc , so its not only people not getting informed but they are being deliberately misinformed as well .
Unless something is done quickly there will be another massive release and it can get even much worse ,, imagine those fuel pools crashing down with a strong earth quake and losing their water ,, that would cause a disaster much worse than it already is . As Michiou Kaku put it ,, its hanging by the nails .
-2 ( +2 / -4 )
wiillib It was evacuated for a reason , they did not just evacuate it because they just wanted to to . People could live anywhere if they 'wanted to' . How about you ? would you go and live there with your family ? I think everyone knows the answer to that question . You shoudlnt expect anything to glow green in the dark by a nuclear accident , that s not how it happens ,, you cant see , feel smell , taste radiation . Just because animals plants are not totally eradicated , it does not mean it is clean either . I smoke and i am not dead so cigarettes do not kill is just as scientific as your assumption ,, that is not how science works ,, you need research , data , facts before you make suchh claims . I think there is a huge amount of misinformation . Deliberately or not , if people start claiming that chernobyl is not a big deal there is not much one can discuss i suppose .
Radiation is a real danger ,, as real as it gets ,known for a century now . ,
Under less carefull governments even world wars have been fought , but i hope we are wiser NOT to follow those less carefull governments as an example . I think , We need to get informed , there is a huge amount of disinformation going on and its a pity cause many people reading may actually believe that .
But lets not discuuss of topic , its about the icewall at fukushima The icewall is a big question mark whether it will work or not . Experts dont know if it will hold the radioactive leakage ,, will it stop the underground water flowing ,, will it seal it totally ,, what will happen if the water flow stops ,, etc etc ,, its a huge risk and a big experiment ,, and nobody lknows if it will work .
It s easy to criticise ofcourse ,, and claim it will not work , but what other options are there ?? Nobody is coming with better solution till now . So the question is why is there no international effort involving many experts , universities , to try to find a solution for fukushima problem and why is it all left to Tepco to deal with ?
It is too big of a probl;em for Tepco in my opinion . I dont think they can solve these issues . Just my opinion ofocurse.
-5 ( +0 / -5 )
williB Explosions are not of concern when it comes to nuclear plant accidents . I think anyone scared of the explosions is not well informed when it comes to nuclear plants and i would advice you to get better informed . Its not the explosion / detination itself that causes the real damage (well maybe to the plant itself but no more than that usually ) it is the amount of radiation that is released which causes the REAL damage . I think everybody knows that we are not talking about nuclear explosions ,, we all have seen them on tv ,, that is not what we are worried about .
Fukushima is many times worse than chernobyl , and possess the even much worse risk than chernobyl ,, there is much more nuclear fuel in fukushima ,, much more pollution three coriums ,, and fuel pools which are still at risk .
The leakage , which still continues to this day and nobody seems to be able to find a way to fix it is mych more than chernobyl too .
The nuclear fuel used is MOX fuel which makes it much more dangerous too , so all those above make fukushima many times worse than chernobyl .
///even in Chernobyl, there is no environmental catastrophe; the area around the old plant is a nature paradise today.///
I dont think this sentence even needs explantaion but did you hear about the desserted city prypriat ? It doesnt look like paradise but more like a ghost town . Chernobyl is not a catastrophe ?? That is a first :) .
///The only reason that Fukushima is an issue at all is because we have a nosy press and a societ which actually cares///
Oww you mean the press which is not allowed to report ?
//Can people please stop hyperventilating about this?//
It is not people hyperventilating ,, it s the society which actually cares as you mentioned above ,, Some people dont buy into pronuke propaganda and try to find the truth amongst all lies ,, that s what is going on here ,, no hyperventialtion but information . Peace.
-1 ( +4 / -5 )
Melisa It s not only that it s technically challenging to entomb the whole site but it would still leak ,, you can cover it with anything you want it is still leaking from underneath into the underground waters
All these discussion s show how" cheap " nuclear power is doesnt it .
Fukushima is a huge experiment , many stuff never done before ,, an experiment on all living things ,, we all are a part of it .
0 ( +2 / -2 )
An icewall will require huge amounts od electricity ,,, E lectricity as E in TEPCO .
Buakumindes .. best comment of the day ,:)
Covering up (entombimg ) is not an option cause there is an underwater river running from the mountains to the ocean , underneath the plant and keeps carrying all that radioactive water ( tepco says 300 tons but knowing tepco probab;ly much more than that ) daily goes into the ocean .
Decommisioning those plants is another fairy tale ,, nobody has even came up with a way to deal with the coriums ,, Tepco is building a tent like structure to conceal the plants , so nobody can see whats NOT be happening in there ,, they may claim those plants will be decommisioned ,, with technologies still to be discovered etc etc but as of today there are no solutions ,, the best choice would be to get international community and try to find a solution but somehow its just not happening ,, It seems we will be talking about these same problems for years to come ,, and fuku will keep poisoning the waters for a looooonnng time .
3 ( +4 / -1 )
/////...you cannot build enough windplants to power...until another source of energy is discovered nuclear is the cleanest one out there////
As long as they keep investing in nuclear , green energy has no chance , we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. They say there is enough energy in one hour of sunshine to supply the whole world for an entire year ,, wind geothermal even wave energy are all resources that need to be developed massively but the politicial mentality is not there to achive it . Not only for japan but for many other countries,, politiicians are very short sighted people ,, they think in terms of short economical profits instead of long term sustainable investments. Only major change in public opinion can make the the necessary step to ditch nuclear , but if even fukushima did nt do it ,, i dont know what would .
0 ( +1 / -1 )
Nuclear was supposed to be cheap huh :) ,, and still they didn't even decommision a single plant , i wonder how 'cheap'it will be then , you havent seen nothing yet ,, . But then again nuclear doesnt have to worry about anything ,, government has the industries back ,, and of course public will pay for the costs eventually ,,that s how it always goes .
0 ( +1 / -1 )
It is not possible to make any nuclear plant, or build one , 100% safe. These accidents will keep happening whatever anyone can/will do . It s a "feeling " of safety that they are selling , not the safety itself . The more nuclear plants are build ,, the older they get ,, the more the accidents will happen ,, its just a question of time .
Safe nuclear industry is like safe driving ,, no matter how safe you claim to drive ,or how good the roads or the cars are ,, traffic accidents WILL happen ,, its inevitable ,, every country has them ,,the same with nuclear accidents . As long as we have nuke plants , sooner or later we will have more accidents , no way around it . Terrorist attack is just one of those risks ,, but there are many other s as well .
However the biggest threat from nuckear plants are not even the acciudents ,, its the nuclear waste they are creating . That is a problem without any solution and we are just creating more and more of it . The plan is to leave all that highly radioactive to future generations to deal with it . I am guessing they will be very proud of us .(sarc) :)
1 ( +4 / -3 )
//Interesting. We can safely say roughly how many people die from cancer caused by first and second hand smoking, we can say how many die from air pollution but we don't know how many die from radiation. ///
We can say how many die from radiation too ,, its just nobody is believing us :) Basically a lot more than what they like to admit . Many deaths are just not reported ,, doesnt show in the statistics as deaths from cancer caused by isotopes . That s why the whole example i tried to show how it goes wrong and how the absence of proof is used by pronuke propaganda to down play the REAL numbers . Try to re-read the above example and understand how it goes in the practice . Most cancer deaths therefore does not show up as deaths from radiation .
// proving it is still impossible . - If proving it is impossible it's possible to suggest that your argument is flawed//
My argument is not flawed,, if you understand what i am trying to say . If you don't understand it , it may sound flawed. Which part you did not understand please do ask ,, i am not trying to argue just for the sake of arguing ,, i would sincerely like to explain if you don't understand about the manipulation of the statistics . My argument is very simple = Just because there is no evidence on each individual cancer case to show how it started ,, it does not mean those cancers are NOt caused by radiation ,cause some of them ARE . It s a falacy to think / argue that absence of evidence proves it s not there . . It s wrong . when people say "nobody died from fukushima so its safe " ,,it s a lie ,, it is false . Many people WILL die from fukushima , but nobody will even know about it . They will get lost in statistcis . I cant make it simpler than that .
In short ; since we do not have proof ,, we can only guess what s going on ,, and to do that we relly on statistics and the statistics are being manipulated extremely ,, hence the low numbers .
/// potential deaths over guaranteed deaths. It's more acceptable to remove guaranteed deaths than to include potential deaths. Basic risk assessment. ///
I am sorry but it is not about potential of anything , that is just false, ,, radiation DOES cause cancer and many other diseases and it does kill ,, not potentially but REALLY ,, it is known and proven by many animal experiments and scientific community knows it for almost a century , since the beginning of the nuclear age . . Infact everyone knows it ,, you get too much radiation you die ,, period ,, not potentiallhy ,, but literally . All the health workers ,, physicians ,, scientists know it . That s why they cover you with a lead shield even when they want to take an rx photo ( which is actually a low dose ) and that s why there are very strict ptrevention rules in hospitals where they are using radiation . I used to think everyone knew that , but i am beginning to realize that many people dont . That s why i keep saying people need to get better informed.. If your dentist is trying to protect you froma tiny dose you will get from a dental xaray , maybe we should stop pretending that radiation is OKE ,, and three simultaneaus melt downs at the same location would NOT do no harm . It is ridiculous to even think that , but incredibly they manage to convince so many people to these fairy tales.
/// --- indeed it does. Hence the choice of fossil fuels - guaranteed to kill thousands or nuclear. Which isn't. And hasn't. I've even seen it suggested that for every one death caused by nuclear power there are 4000 deaths caused by coal. Still, at least it's not nuclear hey.///
You make it sound like i am trying to promote fossil fuels ,, I AM NOT ,, never did ,, i am promoting green sources and there is no fossil no nuclear in green technologies.
//////// no they won't. Those are the words of the science community. Few people will get cancer. It won't register statistically as it will be such a small blip. As much as you want it to happen, it won't. It won't because we know a lot about nuclear. So just because you don't know. You can't prove anything. And you don't have any evidence. It does not make it true. There is simply no reality in argument Your argument is that the science community doesn't know anything. Which shows your lack of knowledge. Not theirs.////////
That is not true ,, it s not the scientific community who is saying that ,, its the pronuke supporters,, and again that s why we need to stop getting our information from main stream media and try to get better informed . You are claiming that pronuke supporters are the scientific community ,, but they aren´t ,, there are many scientists that claim otherwise ,, there are scientists who say nobody should be living even in 60/70 km s from the plant ,,and they are saying that it s not safe to move all those families so close to those melt down plants ,, but then again ,, it depends on what kind of scientific community you are referring to ,, i even heard of some scientist advicing people to smile so that radiation wouldn´t hurt them ,, ahh well ,, that kind of scientific community will claim its safe of course ,,
BAsically ,, i keep repeating myself here,, but we should stop believing in pronuke propaganda and start searching for alternatives,, enough information on internet if one chooses to get informed. For now at least while internet is still semi/free Good luck ,, and peace. PS ; I totally agree with the moderator that we should keep the conversations polite ,,and i want to thank him/her for tolerating us .
0 ( +3 / -3 )
SAmir Thumbs up ,, well said . Unfortunately people are still not informed and the same faulty decisions are still going ,,, even worse ,, many countries are planning to build new nuke plants.
Truth and the facts are massively manipulated ,, politicans even scinetists are sold ,, economical profits are prioritized and environmental issues are kept in the background ,, war mongering ,, nuclear weapons research ,, all part of pronuke propaganda which intentionally keep people uninformed and keep promoting nuclear.
It will take a huge change in mentality if anything is going to be achieved and to tell the truth i don't see it happening anytime soon.. Here and there a few voices are heard ( like the demonstration near taipei ) but not enough .
I think we all have to start getting better informed what s rreally going on and why nuclear is still promoted. Good luck and peace.
1 ( +4 / -3 )
Such a sad story ,, many of them ,,to read about how these peoples lives have been torn apart .
People have to realize that decisions on nuclear energy should not be made only on economical basis , human cost and environemental costs are much worse than that .
Radiation measurements are rather misleiding Yuriotani , it is mainly becauae it s not a uniform spread as the figures suggest . It does not spread everywhere equally like chemicals do ,, forms hot spots and cold spots ,, thus makes it almost impossible to clean . Pollution at atomic scale is not easy to clean .
I dont believe these people are being compensated enough for their loss , but that s my personal opinion . Besides it shouldnt even be just the japanese governments task to deal with such a huge disaster but an international effort should be dealig with it . Unfortunately no one seems to be interested .
I wish strength to those who have to suffer daily from the consequences of this catatstrophe.
3 ( +4 / -1 )
/// You keep saying there is a lack of evidence. And come up with hypotheticals that have no scientific basis. /// It does have a scientific basis , it is proven that radiation causes and there is no way to trace back any cancer case caused by radiation to its origin ,, these are the facts whatever you say .
/// again your numbers are extremely down played because of lack of evidence ,, check out the source i mentioened above,, in those reasearch articles they are talking about hundreds of thousands . But ofcourse proving it is still impossible .
///And what happened in Chernobyl is very, very different to what happened in Fukushima/// You dont see the big picture ,, these aciidents did no HAPPEN ,, they are still happening and will keep on happenig forever,, every nuclear plant will add radioactivty to its environment increasing the total amount of damage .,, which gets lost in statistics,, partly deliberatley ,, partly because of lack of direct evidence,, However lack of evidence does not mean its not there ,, JUST because we cant prove it , it does not mean radioactivity is not causing harm ,, it does ,, just not proven in most cases ,, as i mentioned in above example ,,
//// The risks of nuclear have been proven to be acceptable. //// who says that ? who decides what is acceptable ? that "acceptable " is exactly what needs to be changed ,, norms made by pronuke mental;ity ,, with no insight of the real problem ,, people / politicians making decision s worrying about the next election,, acceptable is whatever they decide it is . There is nothing acceptable polluting with radioactive isotopes .
/// are you suggesting that Japan should now turn off all of their fossil fuels as well?/// No i am not ,, it cannot happen in one day ,, it takes time ,, first step is to realize what the problem is ( which we cant even seem to make that happen ,, people just dont want to hear ,, dont want to see ) then the next step is to make decisions / plans to phase out polluting sources and invest more and more into green sources,, it can happen ,, only the decision makers must make that choice ,, and to do that public need to force them to do that ,, and to do that public needs to get informed ,, and to do that we need to infrom people about the truth and the real harm by radiation ,, but i cant even seem to convince even one :) This discussion is not about japan or japanese government either ,, nuclear and green energy issue concerns all the countries and all the governments . That s why they keep meeting every year trying to determine what kind of norms and regulations they have to make to meet the pollution nomrs,, which we all know ,, they never did and never will . You never hear ,, such and such government has done such a great job in controling their pollution that their pollution is even below the estimated standards ,, it will never happen unless gets informed.
/// Still, I'm sure if you ever get cancer you will blame it on living in Japan. Despite the plethora of evidence against it./// Those are not my words but yours,, and that s not what i am trying to say ,, What i am saying is ,, that the fact is, many people in japan will get cancer because of fukushima ,, and none of them will be able to prove it ,,many will get other diseases as well and none will show up in statistics,, that is the truth whether you want to see it or not ,, that is the reality of today ,, the numbers / statistics are kept low intentionally ,, not to provoke public response against nuclear .
2 ( +4 / -2 )
Thank you moderator for your tolerance.
Heda I dont have an organisation and i dont belong to any . Mentioning that site ( ene news) was just an example how people can get alternative infromation (if they wanted to ) from different sources on internet . Its not even an organisation ,, just some students in US trying to collect news articles from other sources for easy access (as far as i know ) . All their sources have references , and most of the articles are based on experts interviews and research . CHeck it out .
The data of the real damage by radioactivity is extremely downplayed because of lack of evidence.
An example : (this is just a hypothetical example ) Imagine you would go out for a diner and have some fish at a restaurant which would happen to buy that fish from a fisherman who caught it in front of a nuclear plant in polluted waters and lets say that the fish has radioactive isotopes in it . You would enjoy your meal and go home never even noticing anything . Now Imagine that 10-15 years later you would develop , lets say stomach cancer because of those radioactive isotopes you had 10 years ago. (again its just a hypothetical question , no body is blaming fisherman or control of fish caught etc , nothing like that )
Now a few questions , and a few answers.
Q= Would you have known that you got that cancer from that fish you ate 10 - 15 years ago ? A= No you wouldn t have the slightest idea .
Q= would your physician know about it or any specialist , any lab test ,, any hospital any expert have the slightest idea or any proof that you got that cancer from eating radioactive fish ? A= Again the answer is NO ,, nobody would know anything
Q= even if you would suffer and die from cancer . would your death show in any statistics about deaths from that nuclear plant producing those radioactive isotopes that got in that fish and caused your cancer ? A= Absolutely not ,, it wouldnt be registered in any statistics , it wouldnt show in any data and would go unnoticed. It would be just another statistic ,, just another death from cancer .
WHat does this example tell us ? A= If you do agree with the above example , that you or your doctor or any expert wouldnt have any idea about the origin of those isotopes that caused your cancer , than we can draw a few conclusions from that .
1=Its a fact that radioactvity is one of the main causes of cancer and that many people will die each year from that . 2= It s also a fact that , as shown in above example , many cases go unreported and does not show in any statistics in any data . 3= If we accept that the above example is possible , then its a "proof ' that statistics are down played ,, whatever the numbers are they are an under estimation in any case about the damage caused by raidation to humans and also to other living things 4= It is nothing but a guess about the real numbers of statistics and if the statistics are done by pronuke , they are extremely under estimated . 5= claims like fukushima didnt kill anyone ,, or just a couple of people died during the accident does not show anything even remotely close to the real danger , real damage by radioactoivity , cause the effects are not immediate . It takes long years ( 10 ,, 15 years even longer ) and impossible to track the source down. 6= Many experts believe that there are many more cases like the one above and they try to bring it out to the attention of the world ( a good example is the research book called chernobyl the consequences of the catastrophe ,,, by yablakov ) , but nuclear lobby is so powerfull that in most cases those brave people get ridiculed ,, they risk loosing their jobs , and their carreers get ruined . 7= The above example is just one aspect of just one disease caused by radiation ,, we cant even start to mention many other diseases caused by the radiation that we know of ,,and the ones that we do not even know of yet.
In short = We know radioactivty causes many diseases and can be deadly . We know it is one of the main causes of cancer .We know that some isotopes can sometimes have half lives of millions of years so they keep causing damage for such huge periods of times which as a result makes disasters like fukushima the biggest disasters ever . We do not have the technology to detect the exact damage from radioactivity / isotpes and therefore we are under estimating the real numbers. Although we know some of the damage caused by radiation ( like cancer ,, suppressed immune system etc ) we have no idea what other damage it can cause in complex systems . That s why whenever scientists notice a mass die off of certain species , they immediately suspect radiation amongst other things , but proving it is another case .
So pronuke propaganda will keep down playing down the damage , under estimating the numbers ,, manipulating the statistics ,, with claims like ( nobody died from fukushima so its safe ) or coal kills more from pollution ,, etc etc but the truth is , radiation is causing much more damage than they want to admit . And it stays around forever , and does miuch more damage then mentioned ,, then even what we know of .
This is my last attempt to try to give a bit of insight so maybe you could change your point of view. I understand it is not usual to hear antinuke view points ,, people are not used to it cause media have been doing its job as the pro nuke propaganda machine. I just hope you can consider the alternative and do not just discard us . Internet is a good free (at least for now ) source of information . Take good care Peace.
1 ( +2 / -1 )