it’s a theme that is emerging in many developed countries.
Why only developed countries? Sorry, I just have to ask.
3 ( +3 / -0 )
I have read your past comments and I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe you're being sincere here. Please just assume you are right and that I cannot answer. I'll even give you a thumbs up. And again, please figure out how to fix this mess. With those 'real' Muslims.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
Muslim or not Muslim. Who really knows? God, if you believe in his or her or its existence.
That said, some, or rather many, of us Muslims who consider ourselves educated and liberal do not consider Isis and their ilk to be Muslims or representatives of Islam in any way whatsoever. Not that this matters to most of you here at japantoday - some of you guys don't even consider us educated, liberal Muslims as real Muslims haha! You think a 'real' Muslim must support, say FGM haha!
So anyway. Muslims of my type will not acknowledge those fellas as Muslims. You guys (non-Muslims mainly from the looks of it) insist they are. Let's leave it at that - we cannot convince each other otherwise. What this does mean, though, is that we won't be able to put our heads together to fix this problem. But that's ok - you guys know Muslims and Islam better than us Muslims, anyway (just as you know Japan and the Japanese better than the Japanese). So you guys figure out how to fix this mess - please.
-2 ( +0 / -2 )
I know a lot of people who mistook the pedals at least once, myself included. In most cases they realized the mistake just as they were about to step on the pedal. And of course most of them refused to admit the mistake. You know, the 'everyone's a bad driver but me', or 'I'm better than the average driver' mentality...
But JT commentators truly are better drivers. They must be, judging from their comments. If only everyone (or at least, the Japanese) could drive like the well above average drivers here on JT...
By the way, "if this idiot does not the difference between left and right he should not have been driving the loader at all." The word 'know' was left out. By accident no doubt. Accidents happen, you know...
2 ( +3 / -1 )
Must be an Asian thing—constant whining. Not hardly a peep out of the Russians and Germans about the million-plus women raped on both sides during WWII. Just an ugly fact of war; never forget, but get over it and move on.
Holy smokes. That all Asian countries could be lumped together...How could such a racist statement get so many likes from the morally upright commentators on JT. Shocking to say the least.
But then I suppose I shouldn't expect such racism from westerners... indeed racism, cultural superiority must be a western thing. Oh yes.
2 ( +7 / -5 )
The key question is one I've never got a clear answer to. On what or whose authority are you claiming your interpretation is the correct one?
I can't tell if you're actually out to whack me or if you really see things differently from most of the other commentators here. So I'll address this first. I suspect you'll decide whether I'm a 'real' Muslim worth supporting (or hammering down) or a half baked, pick-and-choose cake whose opinions are worthless after I answer.
I don't know what you mean by 'what authority' so I cannot answer that one. As for 'whose authority' - no one in particular. I went through what is considered the standard religious education in my part of the world, learnt the 'standard' practices and philosophies (there wasn't much worth learning, and a lot that should not have been taught - good for nothing narrow minded teachers!) and from there it was all my own. As is the case for a lot of Muslims I know. And I should add - I don't know if my interpretation is the correct one, and I make no such claim (if it sounded like I did earlier - my mistake, poor command of the english language I have). But, like many decent Muslims, I believe I know what an incorrect interpretation looks like.
In case you're still reading... Regarding Iqbal Sacranie and Yusuf al-Qaradawi and all these fellas. Oh, I have no doubt they know the scriptures as well as any and better than most. It could be that they had no choice but to pander to their support base. Or maybe they're simply twats. I wouldn't say the things they said even if I actually believed it, though, unless I had to maintain a support base (for the long term good etc.).
1 ( +3 / -2 )
Hello Everyone. Muslim in Japan here.
The incident in Nice is utterly barbaric, inhuman. That must be said, first and foremost. Since the perpetrator is already dead I pray he gets his just rewards (which to me means 7th hell) in the afterlife - assuming there is an afterlife.
To some of you the above probably isn't enough (because it wasn't broadcast worldwide I guess. Or maybe because I didn't use my real name. Well, whatever.
That said, on to some of the comments. I'm a Muslim, as stated previously. The questions posed by Jimizo above. My replies: yes to informing the police, to the freedom of the press, the right to insult any and all religions, to same sex marriage etc. A lot of proper, practising Muslims would agree with me. If you find that hard to believe, sorry.
As for why few/some/many/most Muslims don't accept barbaric, undemocratic and bigoted ideas (on the last item, unlike many commenters here) - the answer really is quite simple (to my mind). Such Muslims are properly educated. And by educated I don't necessarily mean having, say a PhD in western philosophy. Being properly educated makes them decent people. They know how to interpret the texts. Oh, they don't ignore violent texts. It's just that, when you're actually practising Islam you understand and interpret the texts differently from someone who simply reads the text (and is bigoted to boot) - as is the case for many 'experts' on Islam who have commented here.
I could continue (I have the energy, for now). But before that, what would you like to say to me? I should go back to where I 'came from'? I should stop believing in 'fairy tales'? I should wage war against Daesh? Oh, and the perpetrator is not one of my 'brethren'. Definitely not.
4 ( +5 / -1 )
This one's easy. Like the likes of and , who have the same narrow bigoted mentality as those who have joined or will join IS. Only that they weren't 'born' muslim, so fortunately for the world, two less Very Bad People killing other people.
-2 ( +1 / -3 )
WilliB - the reasons you gave are exactly why Nasser is correct. And I choose to call them Very Bad People. You can call yourself Muslim if you want, too. Just don't expect the average Muslim (or non Muslim for that matter) to believe you.
Anyway. We've been through this before. You think you know Muslims and Islam better than Muslims themselves. Fine. Now back to the original topic.
Might they strike Japan? Possibly. But for now, I'm still more afraid of people like, as mentioned earlier, ben4short, and to add to that, williB and outrider and all. So much so I keep my beliefs hidden, lest I one day meet such... people.
2 ( +3 / -1 )
As a Muslim in Japan, people like ben4short scare me more than anything, even the Japanese police.
You claim to know there are thousands of young Muslim men here setting up cover. Presumably for you to know this you have evidence. So why haven't you brought that evidence to the Japanese authorities? Surely if you know a worker is illegally in Japan planning a terror attack, it would be a trivial matter for the immigration to deport them. So which is it: you are the kind of person who knows of an imminent terrorist threat but is unwilling to do anything about it except for an anonymous claim on a message board no authorities will read, willing to let tens, maybe hundreds of innocent bystanders be killed? Or that you don't know what you claim to know?
Yeah, I'm still waiting for this too.
2 ( +5 / -3 )
I thought Muslims were not allowed to shave during Ramadan? It started on June 17th. I'm pretty sure we would be getting some facial hair by now.
Wow. This level of ignorance explains a lot of the other comments regarding Islam on Japan Today...
-2 ( +7 / -10 )
I said the Koran should banned IF YOU APPLY THE SAME STANDARDS as you apply when you demand that Mohammed cartoons should be banned. I was making a point about consistency; maybe you missed that?
Indeed you did. In fact I agree about the consistency bit. But let's focus on how you said it. You said - "If Mohammed cartoons should banned because they offend some Muslims, then half of the Koran should also be banned, because if offends Jews, Christians, and Hindus. You can´t have it both ways. Not if you want to have equality under the law." Half. HALF. You were exaggerating for effect, I suppose? Nah - just another Islam basher. Nothing wrong with being an Islam basher. After all, if you think the religion is evil, and is the cause of so much strife, why not hate it?
That being the case - you being an Islam basher/hater/whatever - as mentioned previously I see no need to continue this argument.
Actually, the opposite is the case. Cherry-picking is typically done by apologists, who quote some tolerant Mekkan verses, without telling us that these are abrogated by the later, Medinan verses. But I assume you know that. In the event, ISIS is not cherry-picking, they follow radical Wahabi Sunni islam to the letter.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
If Mohammed cartoons should banned because they offend some Muslims, then half of the Koran should also be banned, because if offends Jews, Christians, and Hindus. You can´t have it both ways. Not if you want to have equality under the law.
No, actually the Koran content is pretty clear. You should read it yourself. I would not mind posting some quotes, but I am pretty sure the moderators would remove them as "offensive/vulgar".
As I said previously - it isn't possible to have an 'intelligent' discussion with someone already set in his ways. Half the Quran should be banned, because it offends Jews, Christians, and Hindus? HALF?! Even if you had said a quarter, or 10%... You might claim to have read the Quran from cover to cover but no one is going to believe you (except, of course, fellow islam-bashers).
As long as you cherry pick verses in the book to suit your purposes, you will never understand. Muslims - some of us at least - take the book as a whole and not cherry pick. ISIS cherry picks, by the way - one reason why I do not consider them Muslims. I suppose if you were a Muslim (oops, 'Muslim') you may well be among them.
As for charlie hebdo - they can print what they want. Doesn't bother me. Muslims who react to this have nothing better to do.
-2 ( +0 / -2 )
When islamic terrorists kill non-muslims, the religious aspect is thoroughly blanked out in the media. When an atheist kills 3 muslims (and the motive is not clear at all; parking space or religion), immediately the "religion" aspect is splashed over the headlines, presenting the muslims as victims.
Unbelievable. Anyone who has been following the news would know it is the other way round. “I guess that Muslims are only newsworthy when behind the gun, not in front” better reflects the truth. I posted this before; JT saw fit to delete my message. Hopefully they won't this time round.
0 ( +1 / -1 )
Nope, no problems here. In fact I might buy the book too just to amuse myself. If it doesn't cost too much...
4 ( +6 / -2 )
Wow, so many replies. Where to start?
@Jimizo: I'm not even going to try. Too many Islam haters here. @Joe Bigs: Sorry, you don't know my answers. And I have never claimed that there is, or was, some 'grand conspiracy' against Islam. I never even suggested that. And no, I don't blame the west at all. In fact, I do think that there are things in the Islamic world, with the interpretation of the Quran, that have to be sorted out. That said, you needn't believe a word I am saying - I mean, you already think you know better, so that's that. Be happy. @Honestdictator: You wrote:
As you're a practicing Muslim you always seem to come from a point of view of blindly protecting Islam first from any criticism.
Huh? I was? All I was doing was stating that I do not acknowledge the followers of ISIS as muslims. You might be interested in another comment I made in another thread (Fighting Islamic State by military means is one thing, but how do you fight their ideology?, FEB. 03, 2015 - 08:18PM JST). Yup, blindly protecting Islam first from any criticism.
I don't think the extremists (and their supporters and financial backers) acknowledge you as a true muslim either from their perspective...
You are absolutely right here. I don't have a problem with that. The only being that would know if I am a Muslim or not is God, and that's all that matters. Someone said only the prophet would know, but no, even he wouldn't know.
Again, @Jimizo. Just thought I should address this, since you were the only one who seems genuinely non hostile.
It sounds like you are saying these people do terrible things, therefore, they can't be Muslims. Surely you can't be saying that?
That certainly is one of the reasons (although, I would say your sentence simplifies things a bit too much). I'm not going to write anymore on this. I see now why the Muslims I know just couldn't be bothered to argue anymore, here on JT.
0 ( +2 / -2 )
@Honestdictator So YOU know what Islam is, I suppose? I'm a muslim and I say they aren't (or, put another way, I will not acknowledge them as muslims). From the sound of it, you're anything but a muslim but you seem to insist that they are. Hmm. You're one of these ex-muslims, perhaps? Can't be, your ignorance is too obvious...
They say, they are doing it in the name of Allah, so that makes them Muslims. This is really funny. But, as you said, whatever makes you feel better.
@Honest dictator, jimizo, bassfunk If you guys WANT to call them Muslims by all means. You might want to consider (reconsider, rather - I'm sure you've already given it ample thought) why a lot of Muslims just couldn't be bothered anymore to engage in 'intelligent discussion' with people who just need to hate Islam.
-7 ( +0 / -8 )
Of course, ISIS are Muslims, they are practicing a radical, crazy from of Islam, but nonetheless it is ISLAM. They always shout "Takbir, Alahu Akbar" That is NOT Christian or Judaism, it's Islam.
Nope, it's not Islam and they're not Muslims. Them shouting 'allahu akhbar' doesn't make them Muslims. Where I come from some Christians use the phrase too. And so can you, if you want - won't make you Muslim, rest assured.
-9 ( +0 / -10 )
@samwatters. Extremist does not necessarily imply violent. If you choose to interpret it that way... Yet another reason why we (meaning you and I, or any other for that matter) cannot have an intelligent discussion about Islam. However. I'll apologize for using that word, if you insist on it implying violent. Lets move on.
There are lots of phrases in the Quran that have to be considered. Some good, some like the one you chose to pluck out. You are absolutely right in saying that what "passes for Islamic scripture" needs to be examined. Heck, some parts are downright odd, contradictory even. Maybe, just maybe, a thorough examination of the book and the conclusions that follow might be shocking to the average Muslim. Maybe.
But you can't have intelligent discussion about Islam if you're going to start by plucking one - ONE - phrase and then claiming that there is something sinister about the religion. That is MY point. Heck, we cannot have an intelligent discussion about pretty much anything at all if that is your approach to having an 'intelligent' discussion.
I've had what I believe anyone would consider to be intelligent discussions on Islam with many. In all cases we were, at worst, able to agree to disagree. None of them started out the way you did. NONE.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
There you have it ladies and gentlemen; the reason why we can't have any intelligent discussion regarding Islam.
@kikai. What am I? A racist? A bigot? An Islamophobe? A combination of all three? Why is any criticism---and can my post really be called "criticsim"?---met with name calling?
Let me repeat what you just said, for effect: There you have it ladies and gentlemen; the reason why we can't have any intelligent discussion regarding Islam. I agree with you on this. When one mentions a single phrase - ignoring all the many other phrases that can be found in that book, and then makes a claim... nope. I see no way how intelligent discussion can be had like this.
As for what you are - racist, bigot, islamophobe - I don't know. That you chose to single out such a phrase, though, when you could have approached the subject in a fairer, more balanced way - as I said above, an extremist of the non muslim kind. That, or one not really capable of intelligent discussion (on this topic at least). Am I wrong? Sorry then. Please move on.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
"The more educated someone is, the more likely they will actually READ THE KORAN and not simply trust what someone else claims it says. Illiteracy is one of the ways extremist Muslims are controlled.
@The Fu. People who read the Quran will come across this phrase in Quran (8:12), "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike of their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."
I agree that education is a good step along with the empowering of girls and women but there is something sinister in Islam that must be confronted
That you'd single out one phrase to make the claim that there is something sinister in Islam... clearly you are a good example of what TheFu says. An extremist of the non-muslim kind.
2 ( +3 / -1 )
As a non white, non japanese resident of Japan I actually hope he DOES visit japan. He and others of his ilk. As far as I am concerned his is nothing more than an extreme version of a white man (woman too) making use of his 'privileges' in this land where being white is, generally (and for now hopefully), the best thing any foreigner in this land can be.
My hope is that if there are more of him around the Japanese will perhaps realize that a lot of whites (not all perhaps, maybe not even the majority... but it sure seems such to me) feel privileged here, and abuse it, too. Then maybe the Japanese will stop putting whites on pedestals, and from there maybe the whites will stop placing themselves on pedestals, too...
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
The driver was just in an accident. (S)he may very well not have been in his/her right mind. I've been in an accident where I got a nasty whack on the head, and when I started to come to, there were people running around, but I wasn't entirely clear on what was happening. If I saw someone ripping open the shirt of someone I knew, I may have reacted in a similar manner.
Me too. But not most of the commentators here, who are waay too smart and level headed. Or so they think.
-8 ( +1 / -9 )
Apologies to ribstick and whoever I might have missed, who are aware that there are always TWO sides to any story. Or at least this story.
-7 ( +2 / -9 )
A lot - and I mean a LOT - of people do not know how AEDs are used, unlike all the learned commentators here.
Really now. Apart from Frungy all the other comments here reflect how little people try to understand the situation and frame of mind others could be in. Calling the driver stupid, a moron? Saying he deserves a 'good hard smack in the face'? The kind of assumptions people make on so little information really boggles the mind.
I sometimes wonder - What would Japan be like if all the commentators here were the ones running Japan?
-6 ( +4 / -10 )
Again I'm not quite sure what you're going on about.
But you can be sure as hell that if a large faction of Hindus, Buddhists, Jain, Catholics declared a holy war on the rest of the world, created a state where they force-converted others beheaded the refusers, we would be talking about that, and not about the passive majority., Do you seriously doubt that?
Nope, can't be sure as hell about that, not with people like you and a lot of the commentators here. Do I seriously doubt that, you ask? Most certainly. Among other things, the fact that you (you as in, all of you and not just willisB) demand that the majority of muslims visibly condemn the nutcases everytime the nutcases make trouble is, to me, simple proof of this.
Anyway I have no intention of arguing with you any further. You contradicted yourself, if you look closely at your comments on this article. Among other things. You disagree? Good.
-2 ( +1 / -3 )
your argument is pretty much that of the average "devout muslim" consistently protecting the faith from criticism...
Err, no. I wasn't protecting the faith from criticism. I was trying to protect some of its adherents from criticism. You can call the faith whatever you want. You can call its founder whatever you want. A pedophile, whatever. Really. draw comics insulting the prophet - by all means go ahead. I don't care.
For all I know the religion may be as, err, evil as many claim it to be. No matter, again - I am not here to defend the religion. My comment was simply to address what was written by someone who claimed that 'good' muslims remain silent despite the acts of 'their brethren', the radical muslims/islamists/terrorists.. This isn't true. Many 'good' muslims have spoken out against the acts and deeds of the minority nutcases. Whether these 'good' muslims (like myself) are nutcases themselves for continuing to believe in the religion is a different case completely, and out of topic.
And then there are those who make up 'facts' just because they hate Islam (the hate may be justified, the making up of facts not) e.g. MarkG above, as shown by Sensenotsocommon.
Going to what Affleck said "How about the more than a billion people, who aren't fanatical, who don't punish women, who just want to go to school, have some sandwiches, pray five times a day, and don't do any of the things that you're saying all Muslims do." Why can't people just focus on this? Because most of you just hate the religion way too much. Nice.
0 ( +2 / -2 )