kikai comments

@Honestdictator So YOU know what Islam is, I suppose? I'm a muslim and I say they aren't (or, put another way, I will not acknowledge them as muslims). From the sound of it, you're anything but a muslim but you seem to insist that they are. Hmm. You're one of these ex-muslims, perhaps? Can't be, your ignorance is too obvious...

@jimizo

They say, they are doing it in the name of Allah, so that makes them Muslims. This is really funny. But, as you said, whatever makes you feel better.

@Honest dictator, jimizo, bassfunk If you guys WANT to call them Muslims by all means. You might want to consider (reconsider, rather - I'm sure you've already given it ample thought) why a lot of Muslims just couldn't be bothered anymore to engage in 'intelligent discussion' with people who just need to hate Islam.

@bass4funk

Of course, ISIS are Muslims, they are practicing a radical, crazy from of Islam, but nonetheless it is ISLAM. They always shout "Takbir, Alahu Akbar" That is NOT Christian or Judaism, it's Islam.

Nope, it's not Islam and they're not Muslims. Them shouting 'allahu akhbar' doesn't make them Muslims. Where I come from some Christians use the phrase too. And so can you, if you want - won't make you Muslim, rest assured.

@samwatters. Extremist does not necessarily imply violent. If you choose to interpret it that way... Yet another reason why we (meaning you and I, or any other for that matter) cannot have an intelligent discussion about Islam. However. I'll apologize for using that word, if you insist on it implying violent. Lets move on.

There are lots of phrases in the Quran that have to be considered. Some good, some like the one you chose to pluck out. You are absolutely right in saying that what "passes for Islamic scripture" needs to be examined. Heck, some parts are downright odd, contradictory even. Maybe, just maybe, a thorough examination of the book and the conclusions that follow might be shocking to the average Muslim. Maybe.

But you can't have intelligent discussion about Islam if you're going to start by plucking one - ONE - phrase and then claiming that there is something sinister about the religion. That is MY point. Heck, we cannot have an intelligent discussion about pretty much anything at all if that is your approach to having an 'intelligent' discussion.

I've had what I believe anyone would consider to be intelligent discussions on Islam with many. In all cases we were, at worst, able to agree to disagree. None of them started out the way you did. NONE.

There you have it ladies and gentlemen; the reason why we can't have any intelligent discussion regarding Islam.

@kikai. What am I? A racist? A bigot? An Islamophobe? A combination of all three? Why is any criticism---and can my post really be called "criticsim"?---met with name calling?

Let me repeat what you just said, for effect: There you have it ladies and gentlemen; the reason why we can't have any intelligent discussion regarding Islam. I agree with you on this. When one mentions a single phrase - ignoring all the many other phrases that can be found in that book, and then makes a claim... nope. I see no way how intelligent discussion can be had like this.

As for what you are - racist, bigot, islamophobe - I don't know. That you chose to single out such a phrase, though, when you could have approached the subject in a fairer, more balanced way - as I said above, an extremist of the non muslim kind. That, or one not really capable of intelligent discussion (on this topic at least). Am I wrong? Sorry then. Please move on.

1

@samwatters

"The more educated someone is, the more likely they will actually READ THE KORAN and not simply trust what someone else claims it says. Illiteracy is one of the ways extremist Muslims are controlled.

@The Fu. People who read the Quran will come across this phrase in Quran (8:12), "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike of their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

I agree that education is a good step along with the empowering of girls and women but there is something sinister in Islam that must be confronted

That you'd single out one phrase to make the claim that there is something sinister in Islam... clearly you are a good example of what TheFu says. An extremist of the non-muslim kind.

Ulysses

That's no surprise, neither will be the total lack of condemnation from the Muslim world.

I am a Muslim and I condemn these attacks (even before I read your silly comment). So you're wrong already.

As a non white, non japanese resident of Japan I actually hope he DOES visit japan. He and others of his ilk. As far as I am concerned his is nothing more than an extreme version of a white man (woman too) making use of his 'privileges' in this land where being white is, generally (and for now hopefully), the best thing any foreigner in this land can be.

My hope is that if there are more of him around the Japanese will perhaps realize that a lot of whites (not all perhaps, maybe not even the majority... but it sure seems such to me) feel privileged here, and abuse it, too. Then maybe the Japanese will stop putting whites on pedestals, and from there maybe the whites will stop placing themselves on pedestals, too...

The driver was just in an accident. (S)he may very well not have been in his/her right mind. I've been in an accident where I got a nasty whack on the head, and when I started to come to, there were people running around, but I wasn't entirely clear on what was happening. If I saw someone ripping open the shirt of someone I knew, I may have reacted in a similar manner.

Me too. But not most of the commentators here, who are waay too smart and level headed. Or so they think.

Apologies to ribstick and whoever I might have missed, who are aware that there are always TWO sides to any story. Or at least this story.

A lot - and I mean a LOT - of people do not know how AEDs are used, unlike all the learned commentators here.

Really now. Apart from Frungy all the other comments here reflect how little people try to understand the situation and frame of mind others could be in. Calling the driver stupid, a moron? Saying he deserves a 'good hard smack in the face'? The kind of assumptions people make on so little information really boggles the mind.

I sometimes wonder - What would Japan be like if all the commentators here were the ones running Japan?

@willisB

Again I'm not quite sure what you're going on about.

But you can be sure as hell that if a large faction of Hindus, Buddhists, Jain, Catholics declared a holy war on the rest of the world, created a state where they force-converted others beheaded the refusers, we would be talking about that, and not about the passive majority., Do you seriously doubt that?

Nope, can't be sure as hell about that, not with people like you and a lot of the commentators here. Do I seriously doubt that, you ask? Most certainly. Among other things, the fact that you (you as in, all of you and not just willisB) demand that the majority of muslims visibly condemn the nutcases everytime the nutcases make trouble is, to me, simple proof of this.

Anyway I have no intention of arguing with you any further. You contradicted yourself, if you look closely at your comments on this article. Among other things. You disagree? Good.

@Honestdictator

your argument is pretty much that of the average "devout muslim" consistently protecting the faith from criticism...

Err, no. I wasn't protecting the faith from criticism. I was trying to protect some of its adherents from criticism. You can call the faith whatever you want. You can call its founder whatever you want. A pedophile, whatever. Really. draw comics insulting the prophet - by all means go ahead. I don't care.

For all I know the religion may be as, err, evil as many claim it to be. No matter, again - I am not here to defend the religion. My comment was simply to address what was written by someone who claimed that 'good' muslims remain silent despite the acts of 'their brethren', the radical muslims/islamists/terrorists.. This isn't true. Many 'good' muslims have spoken out against the acts and deeds of the minority nutcases. Whether these 'good' muslims (like myself) are nutcases themselves for continuing to believe in the religion is a different case completely, and out of topic.

And then there are those who make up 'facts' just because they hate Islam (the hate may be justified, the making up of facts not) e.g. MarkG above, as shown by Sensenotsocommon.

Going to what Affleck said "How about the more than a billion people, who aren't fanatical, who don't punish women, who just want to go to school, have some sandwiches, pray five times a day, and don't do any of the things that you're saying all Muslims do." Why can't people just focus on this? Because most of you just hate the religion way too much. Nice.

SenseNotSoCommon wrote in response to MarkG above, on OCT. 07, 2014 - 12:45PM JST

*On the claim that Muslims "stone to death some of those same girls who's (sic) family would refuse to allow the marriage"

I can't substantiate

Yet:

Look into it, it's no secret such acts take place in Afghanistan.

The ball's in your court. We look forward to reading this great "truth."*

I cannot for the life of me understand how this could get so many thumbs down. Even if you think Islam is worse than the devil. It's a simple case of an idiot (MarkG) making up 'facts' but not being able to provide proof when asked. I guess it just goes to show just how much you guys really hate Islam, even when you know next to nothing about it. Ah well.

Kikai:

" The 'good' muslims, like myself, are trying to earn a living, mainly. How do you know we 'never say a word'? I just spoke to some (muslim and non-muslim) friends a few days ago; (to cut it short) I said I do not condone the actions of the radicals, that these radicals (to my mind) deserve 7th hell. You weren't there to hear, I suppose. Or wait. You expect to see such on TV? In the papers? "

You mean like the massive muslim demonstrtions and loud condemnations from musli political leaders we see every time Israel acts against Hamas, or some cartoonist publishes a Mohammed picture?

Err... what? I was responding to the statement "Where are these "good" Muslims? The problem is the extremists are performing murders and mayhem in the name of Islam and the "good" Muslims never say a word. ". I don't see how this relates to Israel. Please explain.

If ISIS was as offensive to islamic teaching as you say, wouldnt we see something like that? But we don´t. There are no loud demonstrations in Turkey that we saw during the latest Gazah incident -- it s all very calm, while ISIS established radical Shariah in Kurdistan.

As I wrote above. Note that I didn't say anything about ISIS being offensive to Islamic teaching. Please read more carefully. You made that up.

Fact is , ISIS acts on koranic commands to the letter ...

It's clear to me that you're anti-Islam, so I won't bother debating with you here on this. Believe what you want with regard to the religion itself, what it teaches, etc.

About your friends, you don´t say if they are Shia, Alevite, or perhaps Ahmediyya, i which case of course they would hate ISIS. Anectotal evidence is really pointless here.

Seems you consider followers of Shia, Alevite, and Ahemediyya as legitimate branches of Islam. That's good. So what are you trying to say? Again, I was replying to (see above). If you consider them Muslims, as I do, then their condemnation of ISIS is no less than that of a Sunni. So what's the big deal?

@Droll Quarry (and the rest of you, I suppose)

Where are these "good" Muslims? The problem is the extremists are performing murders and mayhem in the name of Islam and the "good" Muslims never say a word. It is not about racism, it is about a religious group that by their silence, condone the actions of the radicals.

The 'good' muslims, like myself, are trying to earn a living, mainly. How do you know we 'never say a word'? I just spoke to some (muslim and non-muslim) friends a few days ago; (to cut it short) I said I do not condone the actions of the radicals, that these radicals (to my mind) deserve 7th hell. You weren't there to hear, I suppose. Or wait. You expect to see such on TV? In the papers? Maybe a whole list of names of all 1 billion good muslims (oops, 'good' muslims) who condemn the actions of these few? Should the list be published everytime this sort of sh*t happens? Or maybe these non radical muslims should hold rallies every other week to condemn the radicals? As if we haven't anything else to do...

Or maybe you just need a muslim friend or two. That might help, not just you but most of the rest of you here at Japan Today. Really, now. How many of you have any muslim friends (or should I say 'friends')? As in, muslim friends who you can actually talk to?

Another possibility would be that you have to learn another language, or read more. Not all condemnations of radical muslims are written in english, you know. Or japanese.

For the record. I , as a 'good' muslim, hereby condemn the actions of radical muslims/islamists/whatever you wish to call them and pray they receive their just rewards (which, I feel, is nothing less than hell). OK? More than a few words. Sure hope this has some value to those who always say 'good' muslims say nothing.

@Bass4funk

"But MOST moderates aren't speaking out enough against the radical jihadists, they are virtually all silent. Therefore, the world impression IS that the majority of Muslims are bad."

"So are there NOT ENOUGH moderates speaking out in the defense of Islam, if they really and truly believe that their religion is being taken hostage by these radical Jihadists? But the majority don't and as long as that doesn't happen on a daily basis, Islam will always been seen as THE MOST violent intolerable religion ever to exist."

Ok...

Some moderate Muslims do not think of these radical 'Jihadists' as Muslims. But western media labels them (the 'Jihadists') as such. A lot of moderate Muslims do speak out against these radical 'jihadists'. Maybe you just don't hear them (or don't want to hear them). Or maybe it isn't always in English (or Japanese). How SHOULD they speak out? Mass demonstrations every day? Regular appearances in the Newspapers, on TV? Cmon, moderate Muslims are no different from anyone else - they have to earn a living too. And even if they did speak out - short of mass demonstrations, would anyone listen? And besides, it can get tiring repeating the same obvious thing day in day out. And even if it could be done, it would start to sound hollow, meaningless, in a short period of time. And many (like you perhaps) probably won't believe them anyway.

Correction:

It is not uncommon for the men, women and children to sit and eat together on such occasions. And I'd like to add: In fact, I do not know of any occasion where women, men and children cannot sit and eat together.

@JeffLee

There ARE women and children in the picture. Please look closely. The two tables at the back, toward the left - there are at least two woman with their backs facing the cameraman. One is wearing a blue headscarf (she is almost directly under the no. of comments icon) and the other, a dark red headscarf (she is more or less under the letter n of 'Jun'). There are children too. At least two. Please spot them out yourself.

I have been to such gatherings all my life; I know what I am seeing. It is not uncommon for the men, women and children to sit and eat together.