kinniku comments

Posted in: Violence soars in Gaza as world pleads for truce See in context

I am not one who believes the good can co-exist with evil.

The question is simple. Do you believe in a peaceful two state solution? I do. You play word games, but I see through them. You do not believe in a peaceful two state solution. Both sides have a majority of good people that deserve to live in peace. I want that. You do not. That is the difference here, plain and simple. I think Stuart probably gets my point now.

Oh, you love to post non-descript youtube videos. In response to the one above that you posted, here is one for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPpBW07rhiY

The answer is clear. The solution is a peaceful two state solution. I know you are against this. But, it wil happen anyway.

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Posted in: Amid war fears, some Israelis reach out to Iran See in context

Name me a country in which government troops never shot protestors.

We are talking about Iran, not 'name me a country that'. The claim is that the western media has made Iran scary. I am merely saying its government did it all on its own. You agreed with this earlier on in this discussion. Government protected hit sqads went out into the streets killing innocent people. Why exactly would you attempt to suddenly defend such behavior?

They execute people for homosexual acts

6 or half dozen, it is the same thing. Why, may I ask, are you splitting hairs over this? They execute people for homosexual acts because they are homosexuals. It is wrong and there is certainly nothing wrong with me pointing it out. Does my wording somehow make the Iranian government more unrealistically scary than they really are? No. Then, what exactly is the point of your post?

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Posted in: Clinton to attend Mideast session amid crisis See in context

adaydream,

We do not differ in our opinions of Hillary Clinton. She does not take 'crap' from anyone. However, she also is not going to 'stop the Israeli aid payments'. That is all I was saying.

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Posted in: Clinton to attend Mideast session amid crisis See in context

Ummm...adaydream,

I hate to break it to you, but Hillary Clinton likes Israel. You definitely do not share the same viewpoint about Israel that Hillary does.

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Posted in: U.S. demands Israel cancel Jerusalem building plan See in context

sabiwabi and FromEurope,

You both seem to have trouble reading. I never wrote that Kol Yisrael said Sharon did not say what is in the false quote above. What I said was they say they never broadcast any such thing. If there were such a Kol Yisrael broadcast, which is supposedly where it was heard by Islamic Association for Palestine 'News' (which stopped doing its once a month or so news in October or 2008), one would assume it would have surfaced in the almost 9 years since it supposedly took place. It has not.

I find a couple of things interesting. One, sabiwabi has stated twice that it does not matter to him whether the quote is authentic or not. That really does say it all, doesn't it. The truth does not matter to you. On the other hand, I have never lied to either of you. I have never made anything up. (Forget the DNA testing argument of long ago sabiwabi as I was correct in my assumption in that case. I have never posted purposely incorrect information. Please feel free to point out such false things you claim I have posted. There are not any. In contrast, even in the face of constant proof I provided the pair of you kept claiming that Fox News owned al-Jazeera. It was only when FromEurope provided what he thought was proof in the form of a Slate article of Fox News owning al-Jazeera. It was then, after I showed him that it was a satire, that he finally relented.

In short, this is not about me. I tell the truth. This is about a completely unsubstantiated and false quote with no backup to support it except for a defunct Islamic Association for Palestine 'News' that financially supported Hamas when it was blowing up innocent people in cafes and markets.

Lastly, sabiwabi, I assume you care because you respond.

Have a nice day!

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Posted in: Australia concerned about Rio Tinto espionage trial in China See in context

You mean like from a cannon?

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Posted in: U.S. demands Israel cancel Jerusalem building plan See in context

Sigh. Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back ;-)

overthere,

Perhaps you could specifically show proof that the words were spoken by Sharon and perhaps you could further show proof that it was even reported on Kol Yisrael. You see, Sharon never said it and Kol Yisrael never reported it and they say they never reported it. It never happened. Do you have a recording of the Kol Yisrael broadcast? No? Do you have any proof it ever happened? No? Then it is, as I said, false.

I again would like to point out that people really need to look at the actual facts in this case and not depend on misinformation spread by people who don't seem particularly interested in the truth. How else can you explain people quoting something that is a blatant fabrication? Now I will bow out of this discussion. That's all folks...Have a nice day!

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Posted in: U.S. demands Israel cancel Jerusalem building plan See in context

One more post for clarity. Again, the above quote is a fabrication. It is not true. It did not happen. FYI, 'I.A.P News' stands for 'Islamic Association for Palestine', which is an Islamic organization that raised money in the US for Hamas. (I know it looks like it is an AP story. It is not.) So, we are hardly talking about an unbias source of news...

You can keep repasting the false quote, but it does not change the fact that it is indeed false.

This is truly my last post on this thread. Have a nice day!

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Posted in: U.S. demands Israel cancel Jerusalem building plan See in context

But I am not too concerned on its authenticity

As I wrote above, I was only planning one post to this thread. However, I just wanted to show my appreciation to you for your clear and concise demonstration of the phenomenon I often see in threads of this type that I described when I wrote that people really need to look at the actual facts in this case and not depend on misinformation spread by people who don't seem particularly interested in the truth.

Have a nice day!

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Posted in: U.S. demands Israel cancel Jerusalem building plan See in context

LIBERTAS,

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

Sharon never said this and Voice of Israel radio has confirmed in the past that no such broadcast ever took place. In addition, no such quote was ever broadcase by any news organzation. Why is it every time I check the 'information' you post it is incorrect?

I merely would like to point out that people really need to look at the actual facts in this case and not depend on misinformation spread by people who don't seem particularly interested in the truth. Anyway, this is my last and only post on this thread. That's all folks...Have a nice day!

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Posted in: Biden condemns new Israeli settlement plan See in context

What it means is that certain people love to talk about the 5 steps forward from 2005 but conveniently forget about the 7 steps backward that happened in 2007.

Well, you seem to be forgetting that the five steps forward were taken by Israel and the steps back (two sevens was it? above it is one) were taken by the Palestinians. They should have stuck with the five steps forward Israel gave them. They were better off.

This is my last contribution to this thread. That's all folks...Have a nice day.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

Sorry, before people start jumping all over me,

With this: 'I never try to make Israel out to be 'saintly'. I am merely pointing out that, even as the 'enemy', Israel treated the Palestinians in Jordan and Gaza with more respect than they received under Jordanian or even more so under Egyptian rule. ', I meant in 1967, after the 67 War.

Okay, that is all folks...Have a nice day!

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

Anyway, again, I think this move by Israel is counterproductive to peace and they should rethink it. I don't think I have anymore to say on this thread than that. So, for me, that is all folks...Have a nice day.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

I thought the creation of Israel by UN was a mistake.

Nah. What was the mistake was the UN not sticking around and enforcing the creation of the state of Palestine and Israel and making all sides accept it. Kinda like they did when they created the state of Jordan that was supposed to be the state for the Palestinian Arabs but just ended being the 'Hashemite' (LOL) Kingdom instead with all those Palestinians having to lose out on their promised nation.

Hopefully negotiations will bear fruit one day that will see peaceful Israeli and Palestinian nations side by side. Some won't be satisfied to see Israel continue to exist. Tough on them, I say.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

HeyLars,

I am pretty tired of this thread and having to explain Middle Eastern history to you. There are things called books. Please read some, or failing that, at least try to read something more than misreading wiki pages for your information. I criticize Israel when I see fit and I criticize Palestine when I see fit. I have criticized both sides at different times. This article is about something I think Israel is wrong about, so I criticized it. Plain and simple.

As for the refugees, as you noted, it is assumed that Jordan pressured many of the Palestinian refugees to apply to return because of the heavy burden they were on Jordan. Maybe Israel realized they could not handle that overestimated burden themselves. They did not ask for Jordan or the other surrounding countries to be at war with them since 1948. Those countries still were at war with Israel after 67. Maybe Israel did not want to take a chance on weakening its position any further. Certainly, neither Jordan nor Egypt was going out of their way to give the Palestinian their own state in the West Bank or the Gaza Strip between 1948 or 1967. They were trying to wrest Israel for the Palestinians to make a state and thus keep Gaza and the West Bank for themselves.

I never said it was the average Palestinian's fault that they are in the situation they are in. It is neither they average Israeli's fault either, however.

I never try to make Israel out to be 'saintly'. I am merely pointing out that, even as the 'enemy', Israel treated the Palestinians in Jordan and Gaza with more respect than they received under Jordanian or even more so under Egyptian rule.

Again, the only time in hundreds of years that the Palestinians have had a chance to negotiate for their own nation is with Israel, never before.

You still were wrong when you said I 'twist the truth'. Sad you could not admit your mistake. Sad, but again, not unexpected. Kinda like your lack of knowledge about the Middle East.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

shitamachipride,

It is not a matter of supporting Israel 'so much'. If you really had looked at my posts here, you would see that I criticized this action on the part of Israel and said it was counterproductive to peace. My position is merely that Israel has a right to exist. In addition, I have not written anything incorrect. You certainly have not pointed out anything that I might be incorrect about. Neither has HeyLars or sabiwabi. In contrary to this, I am still baffled by your post about religion in the US. I could not care any less about it and don't understand why you think it is relavent to this discussion. Still on your first page of posts I see. Whose sock-puppet are you, I wonder.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

sabiwabi,

No nerve hit. I am just making things perfectly clear.

BTW, I do not understand why you keep repeating the same question about Pre-British Mandate Palestine. Yes, it was bigger. Do you have a point that pertains to something?

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

Is that like when Israel said, after the Six Day War, that they would take Palestinian refugees back from Jordon, but then only took 14,000 of the 120,000 that applied to go back?

Taking any back was a pretty damn nice gesture at that point. Again, Israel has traded land for peace with Egypt and there are no settlements there now. There are also none in Gaza. That is a fact. There won't be any in a future Palestinian state either. BTW, how many of the Jews that were kicked out of East Jerusalem after the 48 war were allowed back by Jordan? Never mind, it was...none. In fact, how many Israelis were allowed to visit East Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967? Never mind, it was...none.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

HeyLars,

You said you doubt the truth of what I wrote. I'm sorry you still have trouble with phonics, but that means you were suggesting I was lying. In fact, incorrectly claiming I twist the truth, with no facts to back it up is in fact calling me a liar. You were wrong, as you always seem to be. You should apologize. However, I know you won't. At least you haven't called for a JT boycott over it again, huh? Anyway, if you think the Palestinian rebellion started with Black September, you really do have no clue. I merely provided one example of Palestinian feelings about Jordan. FYI, look up George Habash and the coup attempt of 57 in Jordan. You really don't know what you are talking about and I am tired of teaching you about Jordanian and Palestinian history (which laughingly you think someone needs to be Israeli to know, LOL!). You claim I don't write the truth. Please point out one thing that is not true about what I have written. You keep trying to find something. The problem is that it is not there. Vexing isn't it? Unlike you who actually tried to claim a couple of days ago that Israel and Iran had a peaceful relationship, LOL! Please, you are way out of your league.

You talk about how Jordan's borders were created. Okay, let's use that with Israel. Israel's borders were created by the UN and wars with its neighbors. One is good for one is good for the other. Except in Israel's case, they are actually talking about giving land to the Palestinians for a state. Jordan did not do that and today, although you attempted to claim it not true, Jordan is revoking Jordanian Palestinian's Jordanian citizenship. However, that is minor to you. Yeah, right...minor. Minor league is more like it and that is what you are playing.

Anyway the biggest joke is that you could not even read the two links to articles in regular newspapers describing what I said was true. That shows me you are not interested in the truth. Fair enough. However, true it is as is everything that I write. Were that true for you, too.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

Am I sure about what? Pre-British Mandate Palestine was indeed bigger than during the British Mandate. Anyway, bottom line is that Jordan has occupied Palestinian land longer than Israel and is revoking the citizenship of Jordanian Palestinians to the deafening silence of the world. Sorry, that is a plain double standard.

It has been a lot longer that Palestinian land has been occupied. It is only since Israel took it over that talk of giving it to the Palestinians is even discussed. Israel says it recognizes that a Palestinian state should be in the occupied territories. Heck, even Netanyahu himself has said this. Jordan never said it and neither did Egypt. Israel has. Negotiations then land. That is the way it will be done, if it ever gets done.

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Posted in: Iran's Ahmadinejad calls official version of Sept 11 attacks a 'big lie' See in context

Any investigation done with meet with people who will claim the investigation is not valid. That is the real problem here. People can no longer trust each other. This says more about how our society has come to evolve that it does about reaction to this one event in history.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

sabiwabi,

As to whether these particular settlements have a valid reason to exist or not, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As for Jordan occupying the West Bank until 67, it is exactly the same thing. Except, nobody except the Palestinians themselves was complaining back then about it. In Jordan's case, they specifically spelled out that they never intended to give the land to the Palestinians for their homeland, as did Egypt. Also in Jordan's case, they are now revoking the citizenship Palestinian Jordanian citizens. As to which Palestine I was referring to with regard to Jordan, I am talking about the British Mandate. Historical Palestine was a lot bigger, as you probably know.

Anyway, Israelis and Palestinians need to be encouraged strongly to get to the negotiating table and sit there until a reasonable solution is reached for both sides. Then all the other countries in the region must learn to shut up and respect the decision that these two nations have come to.

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Posted in: Iran's Ahmadinejad calls official version of Sept 11 attacks a 'big lie' See in context

The problem with an independent investigation is there will always be people, like Ahmadinejad, jumping up and down (or 'dancing' as some people refer to it) over anyone involved in the investigation who happened to eat a kosher pickle 25 years ago.

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Posted in: Iran's Ahmadinejad calls official version of Sept 11 attacks a 'big lie' See in context

Nah. Ahmadinejad's on the case. All is well. Full steam ahead with the hyperbole.

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Posted in: Iran's Ahmadinejad calls official version of Sept 11 attacks a 'big lie' See in context

But who will investigate?

I thought you said Ahmadinejad had his crack internet genii on the case? Between them and the voices in his head, I am sure all will be revealed shortly.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

Jordan has been occupying Palestinian land much, much longer and they are revoking the citizenship of Palestinian citizens of Jordan. Interesting this never concerns you as the Palestinians will never get that land and it was actually created for them. Then again, if it does not concern Israel in your mind, it seems to be of no concern. Now, why do I bring this up? Well, it is obvious that Jordan wants the Palestinians out of their land and they are willing to get the Jordanian Palestinians nice and angry so they will focus their energies on Israel instead of Jordan. Sadly, it is not only working for the Palestinians in Jordan, it seems to be working for most of the rest of the world as Jordan steals the birthrights of the Palestinians in Jordan.

Settlements are a non-issue in the long run if negotiations ever get going. There is not one Israeli settlement in Gaza or Sinai. That is what the Palestinians should be noticing. They should also notice that neither Jordan nor Egypt was ever willing to allow a Palestinian state to exist in the West Bank or Gaza. Israel has said they are. Big difference and it is high time to build on that difference.

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Posted in: Iran's Ahmadinejad calls official version of Sept 11 attacks a 'big lie' See in context

Have a close look at it, and you'll be surprised at what you find. And I think the Tripoli bombing might be Mossad.

Yes, and that bad hamburger you got the other day is Mossad fault too. In fact, let's start blaming bad weather on Mossad while we are at it.

Why not blame Mossad for faked moon landings, global warming theories and that hangnail you get five years ago, too.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

gonemad,

Yes, I agree. There is extremism on both sides. However, Israel says they are willing to negotiate for a real peace. Hamas has not said this as of yet. I agree 100% that that any negotiations without Hamas won't bring any lasting results. Both Fatah and Israel would still have Hamas to deal with and the land Israel controls would be smaller for the trouble.

Hopefully they all decide to talk one day. As Molenir pointed out, it really is a shame that Arafat did not take the deal he had or at least stick around and continue negotiating until a resolution was reached. Running away from the table was the worst thing he could have done for his people and it still haunts them today.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

HeyLars,

You certainly suggested I was not telling the truth and I was. You should apologize and begin to check things for yourself for a change. I am tired of teaching you history. 'Get to my other links'? Just click and look. It is quite simple. Black September was indeed the PLO rebelling and challenging the King of Jordan for control of Jordan and it extended from when Jordan ruled the West Bank. It amazes me that even after being shown facts, you ignore them. You ask about common knowledge. When talking about the Middle East, facts about the Middle East are common knowledge. You don't need to be an Israeli to be able to read about the Middle East. You just need to be able to read something other than a quick look at wiki.

Samu was preceded by many attacks from Jordan, Egypt and Syria. Again, I don't expect you to know this as you don't seem too interested in common knowledge about the region. The King of Jordan could not control the situation in the West Bank. I believe he wanted to. However, he also did not want to piss off his friends in Egypt and Syria etc. So, he let the PLO have a lot more control of the situation that he should have. In fact, the King of Jordan was always trying to balance the fact he did not want the Palestinians to have a nation in the West Bank because he felt it was a threat to his own rule with not pissing off the other Arab countries. Sorry, you cannot expect Israel to have continued to take attacks like that. Your example of Canada is a poor one. The US is not surrounded by enemies. Israel was.

The Six Day War started almost a year after Samu and many other attacks on Israel. BTW, comparing settlers to the PLO in Jordan in the 60s and 70s truly shows you still have not had time to actually look into the situation. Settlers were not rebelling against their government. The PLO was rebelling against the King of Jordan. You are willing to ignore attacks on Israel because you don't really care about the country. Fair enough. However, it is unrealistic of you to expect Israel to feel the same.

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Posted in: U.S.-Israel row highlights quandary over settlements See in context

adaydream,

Are you talking specifically about East Jerusalem? That is what this article is talking about. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Israel has ever said it will not settle in East Jerusalem. Israel annexed East Jerusalem in 1980. Now, I understand this annexation is not recognized internationally. However, the fact remains that as annexed land and not occupied land, I cannot see Israel having agreed specifically to such a thing.

Anway, you now know Israel did dismantle all of its settlements in Gaza and Sinai. There are none there now. Were the Palestinians to get to the negotiation table and negotiate a peaceful resolution and get their state, any plans or construction of settlements in those areas would be erased or dismantled as they were in Gaza and Sinai.

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