limboinjapan comments

hottomales:"Oh, but that would be assuming it actually bothers you a little that the U.S. gov has no care in the world how much it lies and hide things from you."

I am not American so don't care what the USA does but what you and yours seem to either forget or just want to ignore the diplomatic documents do not just concern the USA.

Now stop babbling on about the USA and address the point of what purpose and why was it necessary to publish what the Chinese told the USA in confidence about Japan and NK.

Please if you cannot give a reason why it was important to release these non criminal non cover up confidential documents other than to just embarrass people then please admit it.

NB: Seeing you seem to have a hard time figuring out what I mean this entire comment is about the diplomatic conversations and correspondence about how people and governments feel about certain people and governments not any of the war or terrorist related documents.

If you have a real reason then by all means let us know.

Assange and other like yourself are so hell bent on getting the USA that you can't see past your noses.

Get out of your Utopian mindset, the world and politics will not change and has not changed for thousands of years and these leaks will not change much, other than it will make things longer in negotiating treaties and ending wars because all sides will be afraid for some time to say anything other than the official line.

bobbafett:"If I pay taxes or entrust my money with a bank, I have a right to know how my money is spent or invested"

Then I guess using your logic, it would be fine if your employer also had that same attitude and decided to have someone hack into your personal life to see where his money to you is being spent and what you are doing with your time that may be embarrassing to him.

And on the same note how are you going to react if contained in the Bank and subsequent government documents due to be released you find all your personal information like birth records, bank accounts, etc..

Who will you blame then? Assange? No I don't think so I think you will blame the banks and the government for lack of security.

bobbafett: "We have a right to know what our Governments are doing around the world because we elect and enable them. With this information out in the open we can elect and enable those we deem suitable for their roles."

Again you're still living in your dream world, "ELECT" who are you kidding the only governments this will cause trouble for and possibly weaken are the democratic ones, you seem to forget that places like China, NK, Turkmenistan, etc.. don't give a damn about elections as our governments fight among each other and internally these places will just move along and stake more claims and take (not elect) more power and control over more places.

You have a myopic view of so many so call open government groups and anarchist that you all fail to see the rest of the world.

bobbafett at 09:15 AM JST - 3rd December

I know this may sound crazy but could you try reading what people write and not just pick a line and make it suit your agenda!

minello7:"Countries and their politicians are not above the law,and neither are their secret service agencies,but they always think they are."

Ok I will give you that.

BUT

What does this have to do with breaking any laws?:

"these from the U.S. Embassy staff in Turkmenistan—portrays the president of the former Soviet state in Central Asia, Gurbanguli Berdymukhamedov, as “vain, suspicious, guarded, strict, very conservative, a practiced liar,” and “not a very bright guy.”

What good does this serve other than foster animosity?

And this:

"Georgia’s ambassador in Rome claimed that Berlusconi was promised a cut of the profits in energy deals with Russia."

All this is a claim by the Georgian Ambassador no proof and with Georgia's feelings towards Russia not that reliable and again only serves to muddy the water.

I could go on and on with many more even some that might end up causing wars.

If this idiot really wanted to expose wrong doing then he would have only released the documents that showed that, but instead he seems bent on destroying all diplomatic trust and to foment distrust among all nations by making public personal opinions and assessments about people that were said in confidence, nothing criminal and definitely nothing that will make anyone's life easier, in some cases like the release of China's view of NK and Kim will most likely make things harder and possibly more dangerous.

The guy is not any hero he is nothing but a megalomaniac a little nothing in this world trying to show how great he is!

hottomales at 11:32 PM JST - 2nd December

Try reading what people write and not just pick a line out of context!

The USA is not the only country affected I would go even further and say other countries will be hurt way more than the USA, try looking at some of what has been released and think what good does this do? What was the reason for releasing what China told the USA about how it feels about Japan or North Korea, or what one leader thinks about another what good comes from this?

Can you honestly say any of that has any positive consequences? How do you think a nut cases like NK's Kim are going to react when they read what the Chinese leadership actually feels about them, does that advance anything?

bobbafett:"Its people like him that will lead those of us in the information age who are unwilling to live as slaves or with our head buried underground to a revolution against oppressive regimes that hide tyranny behind lost ideals of hope and freedom and extend thorns and daggers from their olive branch and open hand."

Are you serious! Can you even take your head out of wherever it is and think a moment.

What would happen if the present governments of the world collapse? just take a look at the former USSR and some of the now independent regimes that have taken it place, they make the Soviet Union look like paradise, What is it you expect that all man kind will rise up and put down the present governments and agree to share everything nicely.

You do know that the majority of the world's population has no access to a computer let alone the Internet you do realize that with the collapse of governments comes chaos the likes of Somalia with warlords controlling their little section.

Think just how many crazy groups would grab control of their little corner of the world in places like the USA, China Africa, Europe and think what will happen if on of those crazies gets its hands on the nukes left behind in the collapse!

We live in reality not the Cyber world of facebook and avatars this is the real world with guns, missiles and nukes and I think Assange his supporter and you seem to have forgotten that.

Learn a little history after the collapse of Rome, Egypt, Greece, Persia, etc.. nothing good came, only centuries of misery, death and Chaos, with collapse your precious "information age" would grind to a screeching halt.

Laguna:"If those cables really did contain highly sensitive information, these few days would not have passed without requisite retribution."

I think you need to start looking at site and news sources other than JT, do a little research you will see that many things are now on hold many governments have issued statements along the lines of "we are now reevaluating things" Clinton isn't flying around the world right now for her health, she is out doing damage control with friends and non friends.

Every country that has ever said anything in confidence to the USA is now waiting to see what damage will be cause next, China is now faced with an even more distrusting NK as is the world, after what was released don't be surprised to find NK testing a few more nukes and missiles because it is clear that China will now no longer be viewed by NK as such a great friend thanks to Wikileaks.

Laguna:"And that is a whole lot healthier than the alternative."

What was the "alternative" negotiations where all side trusted that their positions and what they are ready to accept that is not the "official" public position will remain confidential until an agreement can be reached.

Or what we now have all sides closing their doors and refusing to do anything other than the "official" publicly stated position.

@sailwind,

You seem to have nailed it, he is just out to destroy for no apparent good reason, I could have maybe understood had he released only what might be considered criminal or cover ups but the diplomatic back room negotiations between the USA, China, SK, etc.. had no value but to destroy relations and create anarchy and the Bank info he claims to have will not hurt anyone at the top but if banks collapse it will be the little guys that will ultimately pay as they will if the worlds governments start keeping every thing to themselves and war breaks out through lack of confidence in the secrecy of the negotiation process.

bdiego:"Well, the funder is either a proxy for the US"

Before making any statements you should look at what country has been pay out the most to these Pirates, That happens to be Saudi Arabia who's oil tankers and other ships have been hit hard and has had to pay out millions in ransom, they actually have the most to gain in this not to mention if they clean the place up they would reap the rewards of being the saviors and that make getting the oil concessions that much easier.

Judderman:" i cant help but laugh everytime i hear a J-Pop song with some bad english included into the lyrics.the pronunciation is usually atrocious"

And I can't help think of that stinker of a song by STIX "Mr, Roboto" with the atrocious pronunciation of "domo Arigato" just 2 words in Japanese and they couldn't even get it right!

So going by the pronunciation of the Japanese is a bit of a wild goose chase plenty of Spanish singers (Julio Iglesias comes to mind) had terrible English but great voices, songs and talent as to negate their English deficiencies and I am sure with a little industry backing here in Japan there are some real talents out there that can do the same.

The world is going to pay for this, all those talking about "transparency" are kidding themselves some of the information may have exposed some possible cover ups but on the whole what it has really done is set back international trust and cooperation by years.

If you think nuclear disarmament will proceed more smoothly after this you are living in dreamland by releasing confidentially made admissions by one country to another that is not what that country says publicly undermines the middle ground and lets the extreme left and right know what the more reasonable people are ready to give on.

Now all countries are going to act like North Korea that as we have found through these leaks even China has no idea what they really want. (just think now that the NK regime knows that China doesn't necessarily stand behind it the world has lost the little help China could have been)

What is often said in public is not what is said in the back room and that has been the way of negotiations for millenniums and this is because otherwise hardliners would block everything.

For now that off the record in confidence "we say this publicly" but "we are ready to settle for something else" is gone and now when trying to negotiate treaties and avoid wars will be that much more difficult as no one will be willing to say what they are really willing to accept and will just repeat the publicly stated stance.

And if you think that back room deals are not right then I would say you don't know anything about the world wether politics or business, no company just comes out and said exactly what they want when negotiating a merger or buy out back room hints and little confidence info is given to the other side so they know what direction to go in and in the world of politics now that is dead for the moment.

Actually we need to make a difference between J-pop and J-rock.

J-pop are groups and singers that are manufactured by corporations and rarely if ever write music or play and instrument as for J-rock, VK-Rock and other forms of Japanese music there are some extremely talented people out there, just look at Gackt (Malice Mizer), Begin, janne da arc and even X-Japan (though some may argue about the singers voice) all these groups and singers write their own music and play their own instruments and at the same level if not in some cases better than any international musicians, some are even more respected within the industry outside Japan than inside (X-Japan's Yoshiki moved his studio to LA because that is where he is more appreciated and has a thriving career writing, producing, mixing and even playing on some of the world top groups and singers albums).

This is what the J-pop industry is doing chasing the real talent away form Japan or relegating it to the fringes.

Japan has talent and great talent to boot but the almost complete control of the industry by a handful of agencies has killed a lot of the best!

iceshoecream:"Agree with supercross1985: "Music is something personal,and if you like it,you like it." "The World is bigger than the USA,Europe and Australia!"

And this remark: "J-pop stars like Hikaru Utada who have tried to make it in the West fall flat even with English language albums."

Well here is a bit of a surprise for many out there some of the worlds most respected and biggest musical starts don't come from EU or NA or even sing in English or for that fact even in any European language, Youssou N'Dour may on the occasion sign in French and English but he signs mostly in Seereer and Wolof but has sold millions and in Europe and Africa and can sell out concerts wherever he goes, in the late 80's early 90's there was a group called Kashtin from Canada that sang almost exclusively in Innu (Montagnais) their albums went double platinum in Canada and France and were very popular in large parts of Europe, there are many more like these but the big difference between these people and groups and the J-Pop is that they have real talent real music and language doesn't make much difference.

This is painfully obvious when so many Spanish and Italian signers have massive following outside the countries that speak these 2 languages, Eros ramazzotti almost never sang in English but sold million of albums throughout Europe including Germany, France, and the northern non-Latin country as well as South America.

Kitaro is virtually the founder of new age music and has sold more albums outside Japan than inside and is actually more famous outside Japan no he does not sign but he is a real musician and for that reason he is respected and sells.

English is not the problem with perhaps the exception of the USA, but musical content, Europe, Asia, South America and even the middle East and Africa have accepted and made stars of people and groups that do not sign in their languages but all these people or groups had one thing in common "THEY HAD REAL TALENT"!

J-pop is non-talent and that hurts the real talent in Japan the masse industry is so busy turning out this garbage that they overlook the world market by not promoting those Japanese that could break into it.

aizoyurei:"You are trying to say that gov't secrets (for example illegals acts that they are committing in our name and with our dollars) are the same as my personal information?"

And this is where you and other don't seem to get it.

One does not go without the other if you can get away with stealing and posting government information for whatever reason then that will be the defense when other government information it also stolen.

Also if during back room diplomacy where two countries or parties tell each other things in confidence that may not be the official public view being promoted by one side or the other ( and this is done all the time to make for smother and less acrimonious negotiations) can no longer be trusted then we are in for a much harder time in the future with each party not willing to let the other know where they truly stand and or what they are willing to actually give in on.

A prime example of this is North Korea, the Chinese, USA, Japan and South Korea as we have learned from these leaks have all "unofficially" made their positions known and each side knew what and where the other is willing to give on but NK does not play ball like the others leaving a great big hole as to what they really want and what they are willing to give on and this has made everything more difficult.

Now with so many parties worried about more leaks like this get ready for all countries and parties to do the same and for international negotiations, treaties, etc.. to grind to a snails pace.

"On the other hand, the bands that succeed in the West are often exotic or seemingly so, be it the Kodo drummers or Boredoms."

Ah yes gone are the days of real musicians like YMO but lately we have seen a bit of light with groups like the Yoshida Brothers bringing their Japanese style Jazz/Rock fusion to the world to critical acclaim and with the admiration and appreciation of real music lovers.

First I have to object to the writer putting Aretha Franklin and Beyoncé in the same category that is like grouping an F1 race car with a Honda Accord, one is a unique finely tuned machine and the other a massed produced vehicle pushed on the masses by large corporations.

The real question is does all "pop" music suck and not just J-pop and I define "pop" as corporate controlled garbage that is pumped out so quickly that it becomes hard to tell the difference from one group, singer, song from the other.

If an ACDC, Link Park, the Stones, etc.. song played you can tell who is who but as I have noticed over the past years in the "pop" world even those who claim to be fans of "pop" and J-pop unless a song is clearly already popular half the time they argue as to what group or singer is singing, they all just sound alike.

As for J-pop I don't know just what the writer is calling J-pop, my daughter (15 years old) listens to Japanese groups but is in no way a fan of what any of her peers listen to, with very few exceptions you will not see any of the groups or singer she and her friends listen to on any TV show (VK, Goth rock) but you will see sold out concerts and a good following not to mention some excellent musicians and vocalist, one group she is always playing sing in Japanese, French and Italian and aprently have quite the following outside Japan.

So again if we are talking J-pop a la SMAP then yes it suck!

@farstrider

In your comments reacting to this:"Rep Peter King of New York called for Assange to be charged under the Espionage Act and asked whether WikiLeaks can be designated a terrorist organization."

you wrote:"If they pull this off no media form will be safe. Next would be all the bloggers (and JT posters) who express contrary opinions, pundits on the opposite side of the political spectrum from those in power, even the New York Times,"

and

"Personally, I'm all for government secrets being made public."

This might come as a shock to you and others but in most countries there are laws and those laws also protect you!

You may look at this as the right of the public to know but just stop and think a minute.

First the laws on journalist are clear their rights end when they knowingly possess and obtain illegal information or illegally obtained information, this is pretty much universal in all countries.

Second if the first point did not exist then think about your own personal information which the government has.

Without laws stopping people from obtaining and using illegally obtained classified and or personal information, then entities and so-called reporters such as Wiki-leaks could just post and print any and all governmental, personal or corporate information.

Imagine now that part of all the "documents" wiki leaks has in its procession now also contains your private info that your government had on file, things like you social security number your education, birth records, tax fillings, bank info, military record (if applicable), etc... and they put that up on their site, now how messed up could your life get once some crook gets a look at it.

Their are reasons for certain laws and sometimes all the hyperbolae gets in the way of commonsense thinking and though I could never be considered anywhere near a right winger I consider it logical that certain information needs to be kept out of the public eye, otherwise diplomatic, business and personal relationships and negotiations would completely collapse or worse.

todori:"Japan is an Asian country and has cultural links to China and Korea. There should be their destiny in respect to Japanese traditions."

I honestly think you need to review your Japanese history and use any Japanese history books you like but do look at Japan prior to 1886 and then think about your statement!

todori:"Don't be so sure that it is because the US is in South Korea, North Korea is not attacking."

You should Google VBS.TV "vise guide to north Korea", this was not meant to be the documentary the original idea was to do a documentary about film in NK but this is part of what happened.

You might find it interesting as to how the NK government would react at a chance to take SK.

I don't see why this is news the Japanese makers ave been making much larger ones for the NA market for years now even bigger then this on and without the turntable and both micro wave and convection in them.

I had a Panasonic more then 20 years ago that was big enough to put a medium size turkey in it back home and I have always wondered why I cannot find one that size here!

todori: "US should leave Japan and S.Korea, and let these two countries choose their own political future," and "Japan should have a strong military power again with an OWN independent voice in the world."

Could you please tell us what dream world you are living in, it would be nice to that oblivious to reality.

I am not sure where you have been for the past few months, but think a bit do you honestly think that NK would leave SK alone if the USA left? I mean that question seriously!

And on the same note how fast do you think China would move on the Senkaku, Okinotorishima and with its latest academic studies trying to claim Okinawa (Ryukyu) as having also been part of Quing China that would not be far behind.

Do you honestly believe these two (perhaps 3 including SK) would alow Japan to be "a strong military power again with an OWN independent voice in the world."?!

Lest talk reality and not fantasy NK would move on SK the second the USA stopped supporting it and one or all 3 (SK,NK,China) would move on Japan the instant the USA stopped supporting it especially if it tried rearming and the USA wasn't here!

I guess this guy has been in a cave for the past few months and hasn't heard about China,the Senkakus or North Korea!

Badsey:"Who is the only country to be attacked by nuclear weapons in a war?"

Major OT what the hell does this have to do with Korea? Again when the pro-NK, pro-China, anti-USA have no real argument they fall back on WW2 and what you wrote, pitiful!

Badsey:"-the "war" never ended." "You would think the two sides would have agreed on a border by now. Obviously they do not want that."

They had an agreement that NK unilaterally pulled out of recently but that China still recognizes, SO now who is at fault?!

Badsey:"Do China/NK have border disputes? =No."

Check your information again! The answer is YES they still have a few areas that are not completely settled yet!

@Badsey,@The_True and @lesgrande

I have pointed out to 2 of you my next question on previous postings but you have conveniently chosen to ignore it and I'm guessing because you have no real answer, so here it is again.

Why is it provocation if SK and the USA hold these types of drills on the SK side of the cease fire line but it is not provocation when NK does the same (and they do it all the time) on their side of the line as well as they fire missiles over other countries territory, NK recently held a large war maneuver right at the DMZ and in the sea of Japan just within their side of the cease fire line, and last year held one in the yellow sea in the same area on thier side of the line.

So stop dodging the question and let us all know what is the difference between SK, SK/USA and NK having these sort of maneuvers?

Why is it ok for NK to do this sort of thing in plain view of SK but not the other way around!

Again Hypocrisy at its finest.

Smythe:"To prance South Korean troops in front of the North Korean forces, is sort of almost asking for some trouble in the future.

But then I guess you must approve of NK doing it's own drills near the border with SK and and in the same seas just on their side of the cease fire line as well as firing missiles over other countries.

Again Hypocrisy at its best.

LoveUSA: "South korea should not train near North korean waters. Solution is so easy but somebody wants war."

But then I guess you must approve of NK doing it's own drills near the border with SK and and in the same seas just on their side of the cease fire line as well as firing missiles over other countries.

Again you are so blinded by your anti-USA and SK mindset that you are willing to ignore these facts.

Again Hypocrisy at its best.

What is news about this NK was war drills all the time and even fires missiles over other countries territory but then the pro-NK poster here would call that asserting their sovereign rights as opposed to SK is just provoking NK.

What Hypocrites!

thedeath:"what if Kim Ill start a join military drills with china and do it very close to SK so the south Korean can see it. what would happen then?"

I wonder where you have been for the past 2 decades and more, they have done and NK does them regularly and what do you call test firing missiles that go right over SK waters, Japanese waters and Japan itself?

The only reason you don't see them on TV is because NK doesn't allow the free press to cover it and all you will see are a few NK approved new footages, FYI they jaut held one massive one in plain site of the DMZ and on the Japan sea coast.

This is what I mean by selective memories it seems the pro-NK anti USA/SK forget that NK does these same drills and fires missiles over other countries territory and that is acceptable but SK and or USA/SK drill are a provocation!

What hypocrite!

melikewine:"I am surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) that no one here has trid to understand why NK started the shelling in the first place. It was SK and US's endless military exercises and firing in the disputed sea areas that provoked NK."

It seems that many here have selective memories.

It wasn't that long ago that NK was having it's own military drills right of the coast of SK not to mention the the warning that ships should avoid a certain area because of missile test including firing right over Japan.

Now tell me how NK would have reacted if anyone had fired a missile over their territory.

Why when NK test fires missiles toward their neighbors and hold their own military exercises their neighbors don't go firing bombs at them but for some reason all you pro-NK or is it just anti USA/Japan group seem to think it is all just SK, USA that are at fault for provoking poor little NK.

melikewine:"I am surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) that no one here has trid to understand why NK started the shelling in the first place. It was SK and US's endless military exercises and firing in the disputed sea areas that provoked NK."

It seems that many here have selective memories.

It wasn't that long ago that NK was having it's own military drills right of the coast of SK not to mention the the warning that ships should avoid a certain area because of missile test including firing right over Japan.

Now tell me how NK would have reacted if anyone had fired a missile over their territory.

Why when NK test fires missiles toward their neighbors and hold their own military exercises their neighbors don't go firing bombs at them but for some reason all you pro-NK or is it just anti USA/Japan group seem to think it is all just SK, USA that are at fault for provoking poor little NK.

apecNetworks;"There is one odd thing about this incident. Most people are saying the DPRK started this altercation, but that would mean that they waited, and allowed both the G-20 Meeting and APEC Forum to conclude before attacking."

Some times I wonder if people think before writing!

Can you imagine how high the military alert was at the time of these events? Can you think of the response that would have come in the way of return fire and probably not just form the SK forces seeing Chinese leaders, Russian leaders and USA leaders were there!