Since they're bankrupt. Why don't they make a restaurant like this and name it "DICKIES" , waiters are Men with chiseled abs, wearing very tight bikini briefs and the floor a bit elevated so the crotch is on the same level as customers' faces. To be fair with women.
2 ( +3 / -1 )
Seems you're advocating for hostess clubs to be neither embraced nor to exist.
Well it's a suggestion that if the advocates want to achieve what they are aiming for then they should start with the change of Japanese society's commoditizing women and the well accepted hostess industry is part of that. If they cannot change these then I don't think they will succeed with their advocacy, That is my whole point. And in my opinion majority of Japanese women seem okay with being the way things are now , they are totally fine being hostesses so what these "Voice up Japan's'' goal is just a pipe dream, 100% they will not succeed.
1 ( +1 / -0 )
I am not suggesting to change the way things are. I am just suggesting that "If these advocates really want to succeed, then they should start to change how the Japanese society's view on hostessing". I see hostessing as one of the few reasons why feminism rights advocates will not succeed here. I am not demonizing hostessing and trying to change things. Because these "unskilled" women are are treated as commodities and not human beings with potential to improve and grow.
So to answer your question, the industry can remain as is. Work on removing barriers and empowering the children of today, so they have options other than working in that industry.
Then watch the industry adjust itself accordingly as it has less staff.
You just said above that women who are unskilled should directly be put to hostessing and prostitution than providing them more options then you suggest to remove barriers? and empowerment?
0 ( +1 / -1 )
Hostess clubs are not a good example of gender inequality in Japan, if you're shooting those down you have to bring host clubs into the equation.
Hosto clubs are not as many as hostess clubs where you can find them in every corner like conbini. Analyze who goes to Host clubs and Hostess clubs. Host clubs' clients are hostesses, because these women don't have private social lives due to their profession. Hosts don't adjust to their clients the way hostesses do to theirs. And the reality is it is normal and well accepted by the society to see Salary men going to hostess clubs than a group of OLs / Housewives going to Hosto clubs.
As Bullfighter pointed out, the male customers are being completely fleeced by the hostesses who are in control
Not true, The club management (who are men) are the ones in control of the hostesses. So officially these women are still men's commodities.
1 ( +3 / -2 )
Are hostess clubs worse than the strip clubs and massage parlours that are so common in a number of countries?
Yep strip clubs are indeed worse than hostess clubs but it is still commoditizing women and in other countries these establishments are considerred taboo but in Japan hostess clubs are normal and accepted by the society. So please tell me how can you convince the majority of Japanese people to fight for women's equality while they embrace the idea of commoditizing of women at the same time. I am not demonizing hostessing but whole point is I think feminism activists will not succeed in Japan and the hostess industry is one of the few reasons why.
There are a number of studies of Japanese hostess clubs done by foreign women beginning with Night Work: Seuality, Pleasure, and Corporate Masculinity in a Tokyo Hostess Club (University of Chicago Press, 1994) by Anne Allison. Her study and others show that women in these clubs are very much in control in terms of what they do and do not do. If anything it is the males and the companies that pick up their tabs that are being exploited.
I have been dragged to hostess clubs several times by executives from top Japanese companies. The women are clearly in control, taking the guys and their companies for every yen they can.
That's what you think, but the reality is it's the club owners and club shacho's are actually the ones in control of these hostesses. They treat these women as "THEIR PRODUCT" they are asked to drink, talk, act, smoke, dress up, make up the way their club management want them to do for the sake of male customers and profit. And I said it again, prositution and strip clubs also exists and maybe worse than hostessing, but it is not viewed the way Japanese people see hostess clubs is. Hostess clubs are literally in every corner of Japan like 7-11 and sometimes the same building as cram schools.
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Women working in red light industries isn't a Japan specific thing, it applies to countries all over the world.
Also I'd replace the word "women" to men, as there are many men who are entertaining women for big quick money as well
Yes I mentioned that in other countries there are also red light establishments, but they are underground and considered taboo. Here in Japan its common for businessmen to go to Hostess clubs after business deals.The wealthier men are the more accepted for them to be in high class hostess clubs and the society here in Japan approves this idea of commoditizing women. So as long as the minds of people are like that these advocacies will not succeed/. Yes there are hosto clubs in some places too but their clients are 90% hostesses who lost their private lives already due to the night jobs.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
A significant portion of hostesses are unskilled
If what you say is true and if They are indeed unskilled so the solution is to throw them to prostitution and hostessing rather than helping them on how to become skilled and have more positive vocation which is the whole idea of this equality advocacy right? So again my question to you is how can you achieve equality while this whole idea of the hostess industry is embraced? Yes they can go on as it is but don't expect that there will be equal rights for women here in Japan, that is what I am trying to point out and if they are really serious about their goal then they should discourage or condemn the use of women as commodities. If they cannot then forget about it, they are just wasting energy and time.
Many hostesses are universityy students, hair / nail stylist and office ladies. It's not true that they are not skilled people.It's just Japan has given them less opportunities compare to male that's why they have to do that kind of work.
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In case of those women in hostess bars, they (more than often) do it by their own choice, often for some quick and easy money that's more than what they would make working for regular companies during the day.
And that is the other conflict in Japan, as I said this is embraced not only by Men but even their WIVES and the women themselves.The thinking that it's okay for women to be like an object like a Car in a rental shop is fine because they don't have any choices is something that contradicts the principle of equality.Plus I think there are so many women here who are comfortable of the current system where women are submissive to men, that's the main challenge of the women's equality rights activists have to face, they have to convince not only men but also the women themselves.
-2 ( +2 / -4 )
Many of the women who work at hostess clubs, or in the sex industry, don't have the skills to do other work. I'm not sure how it empowers women to remove the avenue where they can make the money to support themselves.
If you want to get rid of hostess clubs, fix the problems in society that result in these women not having other opportunities. Shutting down the hostess clubs themselves doesn't fix the problem, and just results in more poverty.
That's exactly my whole point man. They make the society believe that these women are not skilled enough so they put them in that Hostess/ Geisha box to satisfy men's needs, instead of empowering and changing them to become capable as their male customers. So explain to me how equality for women will coexists with this kind of principle together? Prostitution and Nightclubs also exist in other countries but as underground and there are only certain areas where you can find them unlike in Japan where you can find these kinds of establishments around in every stations and it's totally not underground at all, in fact these big executives in corporations who have programs supporting women's rights also go to these kinds of places for business related entertainment. So if these people are serious about fighting for equality for women, it has to start from here.
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As long as night hostess clubs are still embraced and existing, this cry for women equality is just a pipe dream. It all starts there, I don't know if Japan is really willing to call for equal rights or these groups just want to go with the trend. Are these protesters fierce enough to really tackle the core issue? Are they willing to protest to Hostess clubs and tell them straight to stop making women as commodities? The answer to that is NO for sure.
-2 ( +5 / -7 )
alyamal, you get tshirt and thank you, be grateful that you get to participate in Tokyo Olympics.
You participated for free while the Tokyo olympics committee take home billions of yen and you are not even welcome to their after party. haha maybe helping people in Tohoku will make more sense than covering up the mess of this rich , privileged people of the Tokyo Olympic organizers.
1 ( +1 / -0 )
It's funny how during their pitch to the Olympics committee that everything seems planned already and then this very basic thisng isn't thought about. ahaha
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Not by choice, just by the cards you got dealt. Then think how easy we have it just to be born as a majority and then perhaps we can spare a little bit of effort and compassion to accommodate trans people into society with kindness.
Do you think Japanese women should allow Transgenders to be in the onsen with them? Or maybe the solution is to just get rid of anything that seperates Male and Female..
0 ( +0 / -0 )
So if a salaryman in suits who thinks he is a woman but doesn't feel like dressing up as a woman insist to stay inside the "WOMEN'S ONLY CARRIAGE" and WOMEN'S SIDE OF THE HOTSPRINGS" , should we give him (or her) the rights to be there? As I said I am totally okay with equal rights, but everyone has to adjust for now as the world hasn't adopted to it yet. To force the whole world to adjust to you right here right now is very narrow mind thinking as the people who oppose to gay rights etc.
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I am totally okay with equal rights etc. I support same sex marriage. However I still cannot comprehend this whole Transgender thing. So a transgender has to dress up like a woman to be legally recognized as "WOMAN" so wearing Skirt, Make up, High heels? Are these all the validation of being a legit WOMAN? How about women who don't wear skirts? women who don't wear make up and have short hair? Women who don't wear high heels and dress up like men? If a man thinks that he is a woman inside and insist of wearing women clothing can this person still considered as TRANSGENDER and can legally claim to be a woman despite of still dressing up as a man? And how about those people who are not financially capable of sex transplant? Please enlighten me.
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They already hire foreign people. Nationalities would not make any difference. This is just younger people doing stupid stuff/pranks. It's been happening since forever.
Hmm they partially started hiring indeed and have you heard any news about foreign workers doing these same pranks? Foreign workers especially from 3rd world countries without permanent visas are more desperate and will not risk doing these kinds of nonsense as they don't want to be sent back home.
-1 ( +1 / -2 )
Maybe it's about time for these restaurants to consider hiring hardworking immigrants to fill these works. Seems like Japanese nationals are getting bored with these jobs already. Atleast foreigners will be desperate enough not to risk their jobs unlike these guys.
-2 ( +2 / -4 )
I admire Japan but at the same time I think they are so bad at solving problems. They are great thinkers and producers but so poor at finding solutions to problems. Banning the knives will not solve the problem as a crazy person who has a tendency to go amok will just find another tool to hurt or kill people until Japan authorities have already banned everything inside the train. Now people who will shop for knives for home utility will have to take taxis or walk and the crazy people who have dark plans will start to think of using wine bottles to hurt people. Why not focus on improving the social and mental health of the people? I bet that solution is more bankable.
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I have news for him. Green does not mean "Go." Green means "Go if it is sensible and safe to go."
It was parked at the side and group of young drunk men pushed hard to turn it down and cheered up. Please tell me if that is a rational behavior?
1 ( +2 / -1 )
Its not a residential area, but a commercial/shopping district that is packed, so your comparison is not valid.
So your point is if it's a congested shopping district, it is okay to break and turn vehicles upside down? Can you show us evidence that this is allowed by the Japanese law?
> Point is most young people are in an always-busy area having fun like people do on New Year's, St. Patrick's, etc., in other cities. Where else should they go?
Parks, clubs, or close some streets if they have to , but not everywhere! Again we are not suggesting to stop the halloween party! I go to halloween parties myself too. My point is to regulate this, organize and find a more appropriate place to hold it. You can't just do this EVERYWHERE. The city is not just for young party people. New Year's , St. Patrick's, Japanese Matsuris have designated areas where everyone can do whatever they want. They should do the same for this to stop the damage they do to other civilians.
Who compromised 14 woman being groped?
Sorry for the typo error (14) . When you said that , if people don't wan't danger then avoid these places right? I felt you are compromising to everyone that if we all don't want to be victims of anything dangerous (including groping) then we should just avoid Shibuya during Halloween? It sounds like you are victim blaming and suggesting that we should adjust instead to these criminals.
0 ( +0 / -0 )
Gropers and the like are another story and should be thrown in jail, but the kids are alright. Too bad so many of them lead such a bleak day-to-day existence.
So if me and my friends decide to party in front of your house and turn your car side because we are having fun, will that be okay with you?
If you are worried about danger, don't go there on Halloween. Weekends can be a bit crowded too.
Everything needs to be regulated, no one is suggesting to stop halloween tradition, but just find a more approriate place for it. You cannot compromise that there are only 14 women who were groped and think it is still ok. It's caused troubles to many people and that is enough to think about organizing and regulating it.
-4 ( +0 / -4 )
In more civilized countries, streets are for people.
Walking is the oldest form of transportation. A single driver in a two ton metal cage has no more right to the road than anywhere else - except perhaps in overly patriarchal, oppressive societies with no real history of democracy.
So 14 cases of groping and theft is also accepted to your idea of real democracy?
-1 ( +2 / -3 )
escape stress and just play in the street is better
So breaking properties, blocking the roads, littering, fighting and groping are all okay with you as long as people are having fun?
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Well said! I also cannot understand that many immature and selfish people don't get our point because they want to have fun and they dont give a damn, they are like kids.
We are not saying to totally Ban the halloween costume parties etc. but it's about time to regulate this after all the troubles and crimes committed this week. The park is wide open! Do it there!
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1 truck (mini truck) was turned on it's side after trying to drive through a packed crowd! Local businesses closed at 5pm. Young people smiling having fun, off script. And the reaction, regulate it, impose rules, move it. Think as a democracy 1000's outway the 10's of grumpy old shop owners, we all own this city. Not just business owners.
The driver has the right to pass, it's a public place it's this party people should move out of the way. It's heideous and radical attitude. If that's the case it isn't a costume party anymore. The roads are for public transportation not a dance floor. You don't own the city unfortunately so you have to take your immaturity somewhere else out of a civillized country.
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Recreation and the people can't and shouldn't be fenced in.
What if someone burns your car just for fun? Is that ok too?
0 ( +4 / -4 )
Japan has all sorts of events (matsuri, hanabi, awaodori, etc) that have effects on the local businesses (some positive/some negative) and the businesses survive just fine. In addition, the increase of or the adoption of an "important cultural event" is part of how society evolves and provides other business opportunities (selling Halloween goods, etc since the end of August) knowing full well that revelers will make Shibuya a partyzone fr a few nights at the end of October. And, it is not society's responsibility to make every day/night a perfect environment for businesses to operate at their maximum potential. If a relatively non-violent series of street parties disrupts the steady flow of customers for a few nights, that is society's choice. If the street party becomes seriously violent and has a lasting impact on businesses, then it might need to be regulated
Not true, Matsuri and Hanabi events have designated areas and tons of meetings and planning before they are held .They compromise with business owners and residents. And most of all Matsuris don't break and turn private trucks upside down. Matsuri are well regulated and organized, Apples and Oranges man. I am not saying to ban the halloween costume party at all, but make a designated area for it. Not all people are into partying etc and it's their right to be considered as well. Halloween revelers can walk around, but to stay in the middle of the street to drink and rave? They need to do that somewhere where they are not disturbing. The problem with Shibuya halloween is no one is organizing this. People can just do whatever they want and that's the cause of the chaos.
One truck was turned upside down , that has a lasting impact to who ever the owner of that truck is. We all don't knoe how that will affect the person's livelihood for the sake of fun!? Come on! Please stop insisting that it wasn't a violent event! It was a riot, there were fights, police arrests and groping. What? Are you waiting for someone to die first before you consider regulating this? Why wait for this incident? It's too selfish and immature to not consider the others because you want to have fun. I love Halloween parties but I make sure that when I have fun I am not causing troubles to others! We are adults , not kids.
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People had a great time, what is wrong with that? has to be regulations on everything you do in life?
There is nothing wrong with having fun, but when people start breaking private properties like that truck that was turned upside down, causing inconvenience to shop owners and residents and women getting groped? Then it becomes a problem. Can you replace that truck that was destroyed for fun? That truck is being used by someone for livelihood! Like I said above I love halloween parties but we do it in private place without causing others troubles. It should be a win win for everyone. Regulation is important so we can all get rid of the weirdos! If people will act civilized then there will be less hassles and parties will be more fun. Shibuya is a public place, there should be limitations. Do this in Yoyogi park!
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Had a great time there....sure, you're packed like a sardine trying to wander around and pinball off of others who are also not looking at where there going due to the endless "distractions", but otherwise no biggie. Yeah, the vibe is more aggressive than a normal night on Center gai, but there were plenty of police in miniskirts and fishnets, nuns in miniskirts and fishnets, nurses in miniskirts and fishnets, and zombie brides to take care of any problems.
Please explain that to the business owners who are having bad sales and inconvenience since Saturday. Halloween Party is fun, but not on public places. Do it in some park or club.
-2 ( +2 / -4 )