NZ2011 comments

Posted in: Japan, led by less apologetic generation, stays tough in S Korea feud See in context

Again like Abe or not and plenty of his government policies I don't.. there has been plenty of apologies.. and from him even if he is a bit rightwing and nationalistic for my liking.

There is several legal issues at hand, one of export and one of historical compensation claims, however it almost instantly turns to Japan is a demon, yeah it was terrible and atrocious during that time, but was changed so it can never be that Japan again.

Forgive move on, I don't need constant apologies from young German people or the German government for the genocide of some of my family simply for being born a certain group of people, yet there seems a real desire to keep these wounds open. With better relations I would suspect a better understanding could be fostered to repair feelings and relations but if you constantly being accused of your distant generation before crimes I can understand how people would be defensive.

Im truly sorry for the people, though few now, who suffered through those times and think its disgusting they have become a political playing card rather than either government looking to see what they can do to help them.

Again I post from his official statement on the 70th anniversary;

Japan took the wrong course and advanced along the road to war.

And, seventy years ago, Japan was defeated.

On the 70th anniversary of the end of the war, I bow my head deeply before the souls of all those who perished both at home and abroad. I express my feelings of profound grief and my eternal, sincere condolences.

 Also in countries that fought against Japan, countless lives were lost among young people with promising futures. In China, Southeast Asia, the Pacific islands and elsewhere that became the battlefields, numerous innocent citizens suffered and fell victim to battles as well as hardships such as severe deprivation of food. We must never forget that there were women behind the battlefields whose honour and dignity were severely injured.

 Upon the innocent people did our country inflict immeasurable damage and suffering. History is harsh. What is done cannot be undone. Each and every one of them had his or her life, dream, and beloved family. When I squarely contemplate this obvious fact, even now, I find myself speechless and my heart is rent with the utmost grief.

 The peace we enjoy today exists only upon such precious sacrifices. And therein lies the origin of postwar Japan. 

 We must never again repeat the devastation of war.

 Japan has repeatedly expressed the feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology for its actions during the war. In order to manifest such feelings through concrete actions, we have engraved in our hearts the histories of suffering of the people in Asia as our neighbours: those in Southeast Asian countries such as Indonesia and the Philippines, and Taiwan, the Republic of Korea and China, among others; and we have consistently devoted ourselves to the peace and prosperity of the region since the end of the war.

 Such position articulated by the previous cabinets will remain unshakable into the future.

 How much emotional struggle must have existed and what great efforts must have been necessary for the Chinese people who underwent all the sufferings of the war and for the former POWs who experienced unbearable sufferings caused by the Japanese military in order for them to be so tolerant nevertheless?

 That is what we must turn our thoughts to reflect upon.

>

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Posted in: Japan-S Korea dispute puts U.S. in bad position: Trump See in context

Trump is partly responsible for this situation by propping up the dictatorship in North Korea with kind words and all sorts of vague promises, he has disturbed the (unfortunate for North Koreans) balance in the region.

China doesn't want have a united Korea that is a US ally on its boarder, as the relationship with Japan, the other main US ally in the area, falls apart almost like clockwork we are looking at a region that will head toward a military build up and controlling autocratic governments... this is not good for the people anywhere.

This is the rumblings of war I'm starting to worry.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Posted in: Japan, led by less apologetic generation, stays tough in S Korea feud See in context

So much dislike here, its very sad. South Korea and Japan both could do better, but pro South Korea (in this situation) commentators are determined not to talk about moving forward but constantly bring up a now non-existant Japans behaviour.. The few very Pro Japan (in this situation) say there is nothing to be done, it is sorted.. there clearly is gap here.

Yet both sides could be doing better, however it requires there to be an actual interest to looking ahead and working together.

William is trying to stereotype a whole nation as a certain thing, thats how unrest, dehumanizing people and wars start... nationalism, lack of forgiveness and understanding on all sides is the problem.

What people don't see is the big picture, this issue plays right into Chinas goal of dominating the region.

That is worth putting aside differences and working some things out...

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Posted in: Trump sides with N Korea's Kim on missile tests, war games See in context

Trump is delivering Korea to China.. Japan will suffer next..

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Posted in: Multiracial athletes sparking debate in Japan ahead of 2020 Games See in context

Change takes time, it can be frustrating and even devastating for those it effects and the changes come with a sense of discomfort for those it is happening around.

I remember well the ripples of discomfort in New Zealand as very visible immigration starting happening on mass during the late 80s and 90s, it took people time to say, well if you are here call yourself a Kiwi then, I guess you are.

Its no excuse for bad behavior but as time goes on lets hope it becomes less and less of an issue as I think it has already in my decade here.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

Dream..

I have said multiple times I wish Japan was more contrite about its past and with warming ties until fairly recently I felt there might be a chance they may start adopting a different perspective on the situation but by the route that was taken it has put Japan on the defensive.

If South Korea acts in this way you can understand that even if they wanted to do more it potenitally makes Japan libel for almost any claim with no control.

If the supreme court can make these decisions unilaterally on foreign owned or foreign funded companies, which is not clearly not within the spirit of the agreement with the two countries, however you want to slice or re-interpret it, this causes concern for Japan. Im sure if you could look at it objectively you would see the same thing.

"Lets ask Abe to confess" I think that statement in itself outline the problem, like him or not he isn't guilty of those crimes personally, those found guilty were executed or jailed, Japan was changed irrevocably so it wouldn't be able to commit the same crimes. Payments, Treaties were willing made and received, all he can do is repeat the same thing, Japan is not that Japan and it is sorry for its part.

Like him or not he stands up and says... and I quote some sections;

Japan took the wrong course and advanced along the road to war.

And, seventy years ago, Japan was defeated.

On the 70th anniversary of the end of the war, I bow my head deeply before the souls of all those who perished both at home and abroad. I express my feelings of profound grief and my eternal, sincere condolences.

> Also in countries that fought against Japan, countless lives were lost among young people with promising futures. In China, Southeast Asia, the Pacific islands and elsewhere that became the battlefields, numerous innocent citizens suffered and fell victim to battles as well as hardships such as severe deprivation of food. We must never forget that there were women behind the battlefields whose honour and dignity were severely injured.

> Upon the innocent people did our country inflict immeasurable damage and suffering. History is harsh. What is done cannot be undone. Each and every one of them had his or her life, dream, and beloved family. When I squarely contemplate this obvious fact, even now, I find myself speechless and my heart is rent with the utmost grief.

> The peace we enjoy today exists only upon such precious sacrifices. And therein lies the origin of postwar Japan. 

> We must never again repeat the devastation of war.

> Japan has repeatedly expressed the feelings of deep remorse and heartfelt apology for its actions during the war. In order to manifest such feelings through concrete actions, we have engraved in our hearts the histories of suffering of the people in Asia as our neighbours: those in Southeast Asian countries such as Indonesia and the Philippines, and Taiwan, the Republic of Korea and China, among others; and we have consistently devoted ourselves to the peace and prosperity of the region since the end of the war.

> Such position articulated by the previous cabinets will remain unshakable into the future.

> How much emotional struggle must have existed and what great efforts must have been necessary for the Chinese people who underwent all the sufferings of the war and for the former POWs who experienced unbearable sufferings caused by the Japanese military in order for them to be so tolerant nevertheless?

> That is what we must turn our thoughts to reflect upon.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

Dream

Im not Japanese and not imperialist in any way.

Clearly you have no interest in taking any substance from what I have written.

The trade situation of modern Japan and South Korea has some impact on an historical claim? That’s odd almost like it’s a playing card pulled out when ever it’s needed..

I will have to spend some more time reading the treaty, and the English is the binding version, again it seems pretty clear the arrangement, despite your interpretation was suppose to normalize relations.. that would seem to preclude ongoing endless claims against one of the parties.

Continue your hyped up dissatisfaction if you like, from my every experience it doesn’t weigh up against reality.

and all the while all the terrible things people say Japan did, and may have done, probably did, we are starting to see the warning signs elsewhere but people would rather stay looking back at a past we know is bad.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

An apology is useless to the victim that has no intention of accepting it.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

Deflect and deny.. great work, guys

I don’t understand what you mean honestly.. who is deflecting or denying anything.

War happened it was bad, Japan did some truly egregious things, the country was changed fundamentally after it surrendered to ensure that wasn’t able to happen again, let’s not have more.

What is you expect?

That people must be in a constant state of apology for something removed by at least 3 generations, something that isn’t thinkable or possible in Japan today.

Im honestly asking.

Sorry if sensible hopeful attitudes don’t work with your narrative.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

Attempt to invade, thats overstating things a bit isn't it?

Some air-raids some landing parties, doesn't sounds like an invasion, be keen to read more if you have more information though.

But in a way so what, Japan was "bad", did bad things in the war and the loser in the end..

Yup how about now, Japan is far better partner to Australia than many other countries in the region that are trying to force political and educational influence in Australia and New Zealand.

The Anzacs like many wars before sent and lost more young men per capita than just about any place.. are we holding the same angst against other countries?

Are people suppose to do a minute play by play of the folly of generations past?

What are the real lessons? I think that nationalism, unchecked leaders, territorial claims, control of media, curbs of freedom of speech, government propaganda against other countries and races... are dangerous no matter if the country doing this is Japan, South Korea, China, North Korea, US, the UK Germany.. not spend our time demonising people something they aren't responsible for.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

AgentX I have not found that to be the case at all. People seem to know a good deal about it but perhaps rather than fixating on it they are getting on with their lives which has nothing to do with that time.

There are the few outliers for sure that say silly things, but if you let people have freedom of speech that will happen, however the majority of people support a peaceful Japan and don’t want military involvement despite the strong pushes from the US. A country that did what it did all that time ago being so different now, isn’t that a statement that things can be better?

Japan of now, culturally, politically, socially, legally, militarily is a different place.. so yes I suspect some people don’t have that good of a connection to that way of thinking but do you want them to?

I haven’t seen this whitewashing or propaganda people claim, there are sometimes minor disagreements about degrees but not of out and out denial.

In the over decade I have been in Japan I have only once met an older man who seemed to hold somewhat anti-Korean sentiment, but even he said war is terrible for everyone we lost and we should never repeat.

Like almost all things in life everything is not simply black and white, and for a prosperous future we need to look ahead and not back, of that I’m certain.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

Dream2030

A annexation, not invasion or war, then a world war where Japan clearly lost and paid both in their own human loss and in payments to effected countries.

A treaty, like it or not, well negotiated or not, to normalized relations which clearly states that it resolves both government and individual claims for the the duration of the annexation and war..

We can argue about whose great grandad was worse than the other forever but what does it achieve?

Im not responsible for my brothers or fathers crimes certainly not my grandfathers or great grandfathers... are you?

People from that era made those treaties and agreements perhaps they wanted to abandon hate and an eye for an eye and work towards a prosperous future.

Every older person I have spoken to in Japan was but a child in those times scared and terrified of war..

It has to be time to move on, living in the past is as dangerous politically as it is in our personal lives.

We simply have people using old feelings for political maneuvering.. and it’s sad

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

Wallace Fred, Here is the thing Im not sure its out and out racism, things were going generally in the right direction with South Korea until this all started up again..

You don't think that South Korea has any responsibility in this?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

I think I have said multi times that in honesty its likely they are at least partly responding to these court cases.

Does Abe do and say wrong, or course, I dislike the promotion of Fukushima and the mistreatment of its residents hugely as one example.

But this issue, South Korea isn't abiding by its treaty with Japan.. thats pretty clear.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

Ossan, this is the danger of nationalistic thinking though isn't it. All the lack ability to look at all the many factors that make up any problem, the ability to separate one issue from another. Its complex.

I have annoyed as many Japanese people as anti-Japanese in these forums I suspect..

Could Japan be more contrite over the past, yes, but if its important partners won't abide by treaties and rulings it and fosters ill will at almost every opportunity you end up at an impasse.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

Its not perfect, of course not, (typo)

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

Protest walks through Shibuya and the surrounding areas are common too..

I suspect a lot of the people who comment so strongly about Japan have never been here or not for long.

Its not perfect, or course now, nowhere is, but I don't see any signs of the kinds of evil people are so keen to associate with Japan and its people. They are just getting on with their lives, probably working a little too long, hardly plotting the downfall of the neighboring countries..

Ask the average Japanese person about South Korea you are likely to get a fairly positive response about food, wanting to travel there and some drama or music.

As South Koreans are literally throwing Japanese goods out in protest I saw Japanese people in Japan lining up to by Korean goods from Koreans.. they are just living their lives.

(ok some coward idiots drive around in black vans.. and those kinds of sad people exist everywhere.. but freedom of speech and all that.. but its a tiny tiny minority)

17 ( +18 / -1 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

Heckleberry, it may be one council however it ecos the rhetoric coming from the top exactly. They are funded by the people and are government to some degree. The government should have never allowed it or forced removal as soon as they found out about it.

but yes good on those citizens!

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

SJ, no, that just not true.

most people are just busy living their lives working hard, probably too long in most cases, they are not an evil army waiting to do Abe’s bidding.

most people actually highly desire Japan to remain out of conflicts and remain a pacifist constitution.. but the neighbors are starting to test that resolve.

20 ( +22 / -2 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

Samit, that’s just not true protests and street marches are fairly common. Well organized calm and peaceful but common.

23 ( +23 / -0 )

Posted in: Abe says WWII labor row is biggest issue with S Korea See in context

He said the biggest problem not the only problem.. and I’m no Abe fan.. however;

“South Korea agreed to demand no further compensation, either at the government or individual level, after receiving $800 million in grants and soft loans from Japan as compensation for its 1910–45 colonial rule in the treaty.[12]”

seems pretty clear

17 ( +18 / -1 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

SJ why the angst against Japan?

Do you spend much time here?

I see people protest and make policy recommendations from NGOs all the time and they do change policy on all kinds of things from ID requirements to recognition of same sex couples in some areas...

Yes there may be some degree of desire for uniformity in Japan and it’s not always positive, no argument here.. but that’s not what we are talking about.. this is about government sponsored political manipulation.. and those South Koreans who were successful in getting this removed have done the right thing.

the government there does something clearly wrong but instead of addressing that it’s what about Japan..

20 ( +24 / -4 )

Posted in: 'No Japan' banners scrapped in Seoul district after outcry See in context

Wait... so the signs “all over” the place are not that of a ground swell of citizens but the imposed political postering of a local authority?

The same design signs as the “massive protests”...

That is a shameful and disgraceful thing for any government department or local authority department to be involved in at any time in any country. That is manipulation of the people at the extreme...

Thankfully some of South Korea’s residents have shown that they are still interested in the ideals of democracy, honesty and fairness. Good on them!

29 ( +35 / -6 )

Posted in: Moon calls for 'peace economy' with N Korea; slams Japan See in context

Beware of those who pretend to speak for a made-up groupings of people when they clearly have almost no experience in any other area or culture than the propaganda they so willingly propagate.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Posted in: Moon calls for 'peace economy' with N Korea; slams Japan See in context

Sadly this all seems to be playing into the hands of those who desire power and control more than the freedom and rights for their citizens.

This is a sad time for South Koreans and at some point too Japan, as this plays right into Chinas agenda to try and control the region if they don't very carefully pull themselves out of this situation.

We have our own China propaganda agent in this forum regularly.

We only have to look at the discontent in Hong Kong, Tibet, the claims on Taiwan, the claims of vast parts of the ocean, manufactured military islands, information controls over its citizens to see we aren't dealing with a benevolent benefactor but a dangerous regime that reminds me far too much of Japan of old.

That Japan is gone, and the current Japan of very little risk to anyone but as the status quo in the region changes or is being pushed to be changed we have to be very careful.

It isn't a specific race or culture that is at issue but when nationalism, elitism, justification for action on historical claims, blood or DNA groupings of people, control and editing of information available to people plus leaders who place themselves above any criticism, comment or inquiry we are on a path to suffering and sadness.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Posted in: Thousands of South Koreans protest Japanese trade curbs See in context

Indeed I literally saw Japanese people lining up yesterday to buy South Korean food from Koreans here in Japan.

I want desperately for the relationship to be better but it does appear difficult if every issue ends up being in the context of historical issues, and Im not even saying there isn't conversations to be had but its pretty clear to me that countries that want to repair relationships need good will on both sides.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Posted in: Thousands of South Koreans protest Japanese trade curbs See in context

SJ, war is sad. Everyone loses. but an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Part of my cultural heritage means my family was targeted for genocide during the war.. the numbers there too are unclear different estimates from all around. I hold no desire for revenge or require anything from those countries, only to watch out for the warning signs of those types of activities again.

Nationalism, de-humanising others, claiming territory outside of the status quo, government control of information and gatherings things like this are what we have to watch out for..

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Posted in: Thousands of South Koreans protest Japanese trade curbs See in context

SJ, Its a shame your ideas are shaped by a small subset of people you met once, in my experience people know what lead up to that outcome in the war.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Posted in: Thousands of South Koreans protest Japanese trade curbs See in context

There is some political apathy here no argument but in the same way like almost every person who has visited here who had concerns about long past history have found Japanese people to be friendly helpful and mostly welcoming.

(there are some issues with large tour groups who aren’t aware of local customs and behaviors but that’s not South Koreans if I had to generalize)

Young Japanese people who mostly embrace South Korea now have a country that seems to hate them, I’m sure they are confused and sad about it... not a great way to build a good future.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Posted in: Thousands of South Koreans protest Japanese trade curbs See in context

I love coffee, I haven’t seen that view expressed in Japan almost at all, certainly not that extreme. I have in all my years here only talked to one old man that expressed something like that. Normal people, like everywhere are mostly just getting on with their lives and in the most part are supportive of good relations with South Korea if possible. It’s culture and food promoted regularly on television here.

be careful about painting with too bigger brush, that is racism and nationalism which is dangerous.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

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