I am French & Muslim. France, doesn't treat minorities like dirt, it's not true. Some people in France treat minorities like dirt. The French system is designed to promote social progress and when applied properly it works well : I used to be worried about my next meal as a kid and now I am managing a large organization for a big firm and for that I am grateful to the system. The problem is the following one: in certains areas of France it is easier to have access to a gun than a pen. The administration is well aware of it, they do nothing about it because since 1997 elections "safety" is a fantastic campaign platform, putting it in other terms, you're keeping poisoneous snakes around and promise voters to give them antidote.
@scipantheist, I see where you're coming from actually on fact basis it's not correct. Muslims are about a billion worldwide, so even is 0.01% of us turn terrorists the number looks huge, but on proportion of population you'd find out if you did the research that ETA (Basque nationalists) are the most supported terrorist organization (on par with HAMAS depending on the sources)
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Oh, I accept them as well as I accept, Israel should do whatever they can to safeguard their people from terrorist
Just asking do you include genocide in there? It'll help me understand how far gone you are in your islamophobia...
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After a few days you can see a bit of a loop/process in how Israel and it's supporters argue: Stage 1. Not sure about facts, we need to wait Stage 2. People were killed but by HAMAS faulty equipment Stage 3. Ok fine we killed them but they were terrorists Stage 4. Ok they were civilians but they were used as support/human shield for Hamas Stage 5. Fine fine you got us there, we've actually made a mistake but hey! at least we kill civilians by accident not like hamas who does it on purpose Final Stage. Why do you question Israel's action so much? Are some kind of anti-semite?
Look, as long as you define current's Israel's action as a legitimate response to a perceived hamas threat, you'll be seen as liars. Why not call it as it is? A genocide operation to eradicate the palestinian presence out of the west bank...
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@Crush them When you systematically fail to hit your target and making 1% accurate take down in your body count, "accidental" seems to be the IDF strategy: "Hey, lets release a hell lot of bombs, there gotta be a terrorist down there right?"
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Seems that an IDF soldier went missing on the southern part of the "occupied territories" (read "in fact eastern Palestine") in place named Rafah. To what Tsahal replied with a surgical hit on eastern Rafah. (The surgeon operating drunk and with a chainsaw in this case).
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You are correct seeking peace is the right way but see when Palestinians get their schools and hospitals bombed, the US refuels Israel...
How can they trust the west to do the right thing? How to be sure they won't get screwed again, thats the ehole point I guess.
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Nice selective quoting Mike, the point that you seem to miss is the following one:if you brand an organization that defends itself against occupation and is widely supported by bystanders of said occupied territories a terrorist organization (which by the way is again a random western based label applied) a terrorist organization, well then france world war 2 resistance is a terrorist organization no? I dont understand that when Israel bomb a hospital, and a UN school saying it has (unverifiable) intel that terrorist have stored weapons (of mass education!) which then gets contradicted by UN reports, they dont get branded terrorists or occupation force, its a legit military organization... I dont get it but maybe i am not smart enough
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According to you, the French resistance during 2nd world war, terrorist or not? I guess we're missing a major point here, if you go back in history, what's happening now is technically an occupation. I think it's a bit far fetched to say that since Gazaouis vote for HAMAS they don't deserve freedom. I believe that Israel has a right to exist, together with Palestinian state but when you have 11 Billions dollar worth of Military, a nuclear arsenal and justify killing 1000+ people because you feel threatened by it is a joke...
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Respectable people indeed. I reckon these lovely people are from the party which is right now in power. But then again the pictures bellow taken by AP journalists are Hamas propaganda and photoshoped!
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But Israel isn't bombing blindly Fair enough they bomb in the general direction from which a rocket might have (or not) come :)
Proportionate response wasn't created to even the playing field for a weaker army who has been attacking for decades. Not going to comment on the fact that Palestine doesn't have an army, so in hypothetically if mexico shot a rocket to towards the US it'll be alright to nuke them?
Look I don't despise Jewish people, I really despise is the travesty of justice pretending that somehow Hamas/Gazaouis, are the ones creating the problem, open a history book from 1948 till now and look at how the borders have evolved, it's an invasion no more, no less.
Israel has made peace agreements with their neighbors. It's been done with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc. Hamas can't even get support from other Arab nations that surround them.
Fair enough, Hamas are a bunch of nutjob agreed, but far-right Israel government right now is really leveling the field in term of crazy
The Palestinians need to disarm and renounce violence. Once that happens, the international community will have complete leverage on Israel to force them to do whatever they want
Bingo, that's exactly the smartest thing to do, but with extremists on both sides might be difficult to pull-off
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@Mike Sorry I got a bit thrown off by this statement
Terrorist in general and Hamas in particular have been know to recruit and use children, especially when you consider that >the numbers consider anyone below 18 to be a child.
So you would agree that this whole bloodbath operation and killing so many by-standers in the process is an absolute disgrace? I am a strong believer in proportionate response. Hear me out, shooting blind rockets towards Israel, is not ok, if you ask me is Hamas a terrorist organization, definitely agreed. Now, the thing which is pissing me off the most about this whole situation, is that Hamas shooting blind is terrorism but Israel bombing blindly, I mean, mortar in a UN school, really!? is considered as a military operation. It's terrorism in the same sense. It's ethnic purification at its best, check out how Sudany or Ethiopian jews are treated in Israel, honestly, makes me wonder about why, a country with a far-right state, a religion driven "democracy" and driven by purity of bloodlines is a worthy guest to have at your table... The double standard is so obvious it's laughable.
Again, just a debate of opinion, nothing personal :)
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@mike Look mate I respect your opinion, if you feel that killing 20-30% childrens (well that would 200-300) is alright what do you want me to say? To be honest am quite sad to read most reactions here, take it from the perspective of a Palestinian, 1st you're told to share your house, 2nd your kicked out of your house (expension of clonies is an actual invasion...) The world really suck.
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With 1000+ victims with only 1% being actual "terrorists", Israel redefines the "Collateral damage" expression, but then again, by killing mostly children you eliminate potential terrorist before their inception... Minority Report 2! Genocide in disguise, disgrace for all to see...
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These terrorists in AQMI used to be armed with heavy "gas tanks" but since democracy was brought forth to Libya, Iraq etc, guess what? They have heavy assault weapons, rocket launchers, night vision googles... If the west would kindly stop to overthrow stable regimes to put in place questionable extremist regime, that would already maybe prevent these kind of bloodsheds... For Algeria, one westerner life and an algerian life are equal, so when I read they managed to rescue 685people but lost 30, that sounds like a reasonable job. Once terrorists take their hostages on jeep and disperse them to soudan, somalia, libya, mali etc, do seriously believe you will see them back alive??? Also, I hear about how algerian military sucked vs. SAS or french RAID, for the record just last week France failed to rescue Denis Alex and if you want to talk about sloppy work, how many people got out of the Munich hostage situation alive??
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I wouldn't call a country that has a better debt ratio USA and a better access to education than China and Brazil, third world, developing country rings better ;) . I would recommend you to check OECD data before saying innacurate things like this.
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Yeah sadly for Families but Algerian Special Forces have a reputation of not trying to negotiate nor try to rescue, they just wipe terrorists out and have been doing so since 1995, they have a very simplistic strategy: "Hey if we show them we just dont care about hostages, who would one to try to take some?"
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@WilliB King Abdallah of Jourdan, Abdelaziz Bouteflika of Algeria, King Mohammed VI of Morrocco, and pretty much all the overthrown "dictators": Gadhafi, Ben Ali, Moubarak were religion wise very open people. By the way, funny story about the funding of rebel groups in Libya, they were supported mainly and logistically by the Shabab al islam and working in partnership with Allied force, funny to know that Shabab al islam then became the muslim brotherhood who many people see as the political branch of AQMI (<- in case you're confused, this isn't the bad guys in Bugs Bunny cartoon)... Anyway, it seems that the afghanistan pattern is happening all over again...
My point regarding McVeigh, well he followed "teaching of the bible", so did this shooter, so did anders breivik so how come when a bunch of fart head say they follow the way of islam and go ahead and commit terrorists acts, its islams fault but when those 3 people did they
murdered on behalf of his twisted ideology
I am curious about the nuance
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@WilliB: Sir as a practicing muslim and a fairly educated person, I would like just to explain a simple fact. Islam, doesn't have a central decision body, it doesn't have the equivalent of Vatican to put it simply. What does that mean? That well pretty much any fart-head can go and spread there own interpretation. Now where it gets very interesting is, most extremists group hosted in Pakistan, Egypt and Afghanistan merely represent 20% of the muslim community and they pretty much the source of the so called "islamist supremacy" message. Where it gets even more interesting is, most of the money they get (because those guys are poor as hell) comes from Qatar, Bahrein, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia (caugh caugh indirectly from the US of A as well, yep, you're buying oil from the lunatic who then arm terrorists...) Now my point is to say, supremacists you will not find them in Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Malaysia... well simply put the silent 80%, so before you go out there spreading hate and justifying how killing muslim is legit sir, I would recommend you unplug fox & friends and actually read a book. Insulting millions of people isn't a use of freedom of speech, its bigotry and hate.
Also, your far fetched argument regarding islam and bigotry, as far as I remember, Timothy McVeigh (OKBOMB) is pretty much the canvas of any Tea party member.
Have a good day
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EU and the USA created a new Muslim state in Europe - Kosovo. Just one >example of who supports, finances and befirends the Muslims.
Yes! Kill them all!!!!... Hum sorry I got carried away. Seriously, Islam started in year 622 and is creating problems since 2001 or maybe 1990 (if you consider refusing to get stomped on during crusades as a problem then maybe earlier...), I would reasonably think that they didn't release Quran 2.0 around that timing so... maybe islam isn't the issue but under educated crazy people are. I seriously think that educated muslims create no issues (aside of the high rank terrorists who are educated at manipulation). Religion plus Poor/Uneducated people = Extremism/Terrorism. Sad and true things is there are more poor/uneducated muslims than moderate/educated. Before crying out islam is preaching this or that, try to read it actually and then spit out non-sense as much as you want ;)
An actual moderate muslim (please don't track me down...)
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Yeah. Like he is someone that has achieved anything in football and >should be listened to. He is only famous for his Chippendale hairstyle.
Well considering he's the guy who brought Senegal to Quarter Final at WC2002... I would say "he knows what he's talking about" unlike you ... :)
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