Proper Science comments

Posted in: Unused COVID shots piling up in Japan amid slow rollout See in context

Strange, every member of my wife's family, my children's family ( wife not their mother), all my clients, all my Japanese friends ( most of whom work for Companies that reject telework), basically everyone I know is waiting and wondering when they can get vaccinated.

According to opinion polls, the people are divided about 50/50 between wanting it right now, and just "wait and see" before taking the vaccine.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Posted in: Unused COVID shots piling up in Japan amid slow rollout See in context

I haven't spoken to a ton of Japanese about the vaccine, but I've yet to meet one who wasn't at least very leery of taking it. That includes healthcare workers.

That has to do with the history of vaccination in Japan, specially since Japan has been able to for the most part eradicate or control many illnesses making vaccination not that relevant, and a couple of incidents that basically deleted trust in vaccination a few decades ago.

As in the US where the amount of administered shots is plunging, I expect the number of those who decline the vaccine to be significant.

I see most vulnerable people, and people who really need vaccines actually taking them. Not to mention that even if most people are not that sure about vaccines, I do see a big chunk taking them if the governments tries to push for some sort of "only going back to normal if vaccines" narrative.

Kudos to the Japanese for living their lives and not giving into the panic porn and embarrassing behavior by foreigners seen on JT for over a year.

There are all sorts of people in Japan. The main opposition party, the CDP has focused its politics now on "Zero Covid strategy", calling for more strict restrictive measures, like forced quarantines in hotels at the border for all people, regardless of PCR results of vaccination state for 10 days.

Also, as it is right now, because of a change in the law, SARS-CoV-2 is in a category in par or at times higher than the Plague and Evola, and it isn't even for limited time like before, and unless they change the law once again, border restrictions and restrictions as hospitals will continue endlessly.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Posted in: New Zealand to resume Australia 'travel bubble' as Sydney COVID threat eases See in context

Still no herd immunity in New Zealand and Australia. Big trouble for them in the future because of their misguided lockdowns.

Not only that, their vaccination rate is still pretty low.

Yes, must be a real downer living normal lives.

Define normal. Melbourne has experienced more than 160 days of lockdowns, and they are not able to visit their family members outside of these countries, that have actually a pretty big immigrant base.

Not only that, Australian people who live abroad now are at risk of being treated as criminals if they dare to come back to their own country, which by the way is a clear violation of the UN human rights rules.

The only right way to achieve herd immunity is through vaccinations. 

Vaccination might be the best way, but to say it is the only way is just being an immunity denier, which is a new category of anti-scientific thought that became popular this year.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Posted in: Japan Airlines reports ¥286.7 bil loss See in context

Maybe lower your fees, then people would use your company.

JAL made a big chunk of their revenue with international travel.

Now that it is virtually imposible to travel without getting treated as a criminal, and the fact that anyone who isn't a resident or a national cannot get into the country, is pretty obvious that their fees have absolutely nothing to do with these numbers.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Posted in: Suga says Japan aiming for 1 mil COVID-19 vaccine shots daily See in context

Then stop wasting your time on useless "emergency states", and put all your time and effort on vaccination.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Posted in: In the shadow of COVID-19, a toll on entertainment workers See in context

Art has no intrinsic value

Depending in the philosophy and values you follow, nothing or everything can or cannot have any value. That is not a really good argument, specially when you are just talking about something as broad as the value of "living"

 It's called pragmatism

What you are talking about has nothing to do with pragmatism. You believe that certain people or jobs do not have any value for whatever justification, and you are just applying your personal morality as if it was some sort of objective pragmatic thought. It isn't.

 Let's see how though 'positive attitudes' you so value actually contribute to the eradication of this particular corona virus

Even in the middle of a pandemic, the "eradication" of a virus isn't everything that matters in the world, not to mention that most experts are not even aiming for eradication, which makes your view extreme and disconnected from reality.

 So you would prefer an artist to visit you at home if you had severe symptoms and not a doctor?

Non sensical false equivalences. "Would you prefer a doctor to make your entertainment if you were bored and not an artist?". Not everyone is a doctor, and not because an artist makes art it means that a doctor cannot do their own work.

Money used for art at such a time is a total waste of money that could be used to pay better salaries for front line medical staff

If you really believe this donate all of your money to a hospital. I mean, why are you wasting your time here writing this useless comment when you could be working to create money to give to a hospital? I mean, that is the kind of extremist argument you are doing here.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Posted in: Unused COVID shots piling up in Japan amid slow rollout See in context

Apparently they are busy wasting resources, time and focus on meaningless and questionable measures and "states of emergency", instead of vaccinating people who are vulnerable to end with most of the risk for once already, and so that they can stop with all the theatrics.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Posted in: If you have been working remotely since the pandemic began, what kind of work style would you prefer after (if) the pandemic has been eliminated? See in context

I've been working remotely for years before 2020, and as a long time remote worker I can say that the remote work panorama has paradoxically gotten way worse this last year.

Until last year one of the big points of remote work was "work from anywhere", but there are now a lot of companies that claim to work "remote", but many of them have plans to stop remote work at some point in the future, or just plain do not understand the logistics of going full remote, and ask their workers to be based on some specific city.

Also, there are a lot of people who have not properly prepared for remote work. In my experience, I've been in places that have a hybrid culture, with remote work and also office work depending on people's working style, but now that everyone has been pushed to remote work, I've seen an increase in useless meetings, and a lot of distractions during them.

This year has been the first time I've seen people with their kids in the background, dogs barking, loud televisions and other things during a meeting, and it is always from people who originally weren't working remote.

Me, in order to start working remotely, I actually had to prepare a whole studio so that I can work without distractions, but a lot of people who weren't planning or just do not care have now been forced to work remotely.

If anything, this year has made me hate more remote work, and I really wish people who are not able or do not care about taking the minimum requirements for proper remote work to just go back to the office.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Posted in: Mystery Sydney COVID case spurs return of masks, travel bans See in context

I really do not understand people who praise the Australian approach.

Melbourne has experienced 168 days in extreme lockdown since this began.

Lots of Australians have families outside of the country, but they are not only able to see them, they become criminals if they try to enter or leave the country, making it not much different from places like North Korea.

If you only care about number of covid cases or deaths, then you should praise Nicaragua more than Australia.

But the thing is not their "results" but that people in times of crisis become very supportive of extreme measures, and Australia is seen as the model to follow.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Posted in: Tokyo governor says mutant strains of COVID-19 becoming dominant See in context

More misinformation from the goverment.

The dominant variant of SARS-CoV-2 have been changing ever since it was first discovered, this isn't anything new, and the governor, who has shown time and time again her scientific illiteracy now thinks it is OK for her to announce to the public data she doesn't even fully understand as long as it gets people scared.

The main focus should be on vaccination, but as it has happened ever since last year, proper science has taken a back seat in the name of opportunistic politics.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Posted in: Man arrested for punching passerby who asked him to wear mask See in context

Just a reminder for all the people who are saying people should wear a mask outside.

The WHO has never recommended mask usage outside, their recommendation is for indoors when social distancing isn't necessary.

Saying that people should wear mask outside isn't based on any real recommendation by experts or by any scientific data.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Posted in: G7 foreign ministers meet face-to-face after pandemic pause See in context

It would be meaningless if the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were as effective as they are telling us. But they are not.

Thing is, they are.

Not sure what media or misinformation you have been feed, but the Moderna trial proved it was 94% effective against mild illness and 100% effective against severe illness or hospitalization.

The Pfizer trial shows an even higher efficacy rate against mild illness, at 95%.

Those rates are extremely high. Vaccines for things like influenza are around 60% or less effective, and still they are concidered effective.

This new wave of antivaxx is just insane, and is focused on maintaining the covid-19 restrictions for as long as possible and even beyond.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Posted in: G7 foreign ministers meet face-to-face after pandemic pause See in context

This is just painful to watch.

ALL of them have been vaccinated, so the forceful use of masks, social distancing, and "elbow salutation" is all completely meaningless and it sends the wrong message about vaccination.

Vaccination hesitancy is on the rise because the message that, vaccination serves no purpose, since you still have to do all that stuff.

Politicians really have fallen in love with this "new normal" and seems like they are not willing to let it go.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Posted in: Japan to introduce 'vaccine passports' for international travel See in context

Under this Orwellian plan, how will people who cannot be vaccinated visit family in Japan?

Who knows. The thing with this plan is that outside of talking about requiring the "vaccine passport" there is absolutely no other information on how the current restriction would change if at all.

Let's remember that right now, even if you are vaccinated you STILL are required to have a PCR test done and quarantine for 15 days, which is so dumb and anti-science that it really shows how these restrictions have little to nothing of good evidence behind them.

Also, there is still this blanket ban of most foreigners, and a stop of all visa free status.

I have a foreign mother living outside of Japan, and she is not allowed to come visit here, even thou I'm part of the same family, and I'm a Japanese National.

Her name is in my Koseki, but even vaccinated, she is seen as a dangerous virus carrying monster that should not be allowed into the country, while well connected people can have "special authorizations" made to them so that they can get into Japan for "non-essential" reasons.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Posted in: Up to 300 people per day breaking self-quarantine pledge in Japan See in context

The narrative is so skewed that you would believe Japan is experiencing some kind of disaster, when it cannot even compare a little bit with western countries and their mortality rates.

My only thing I have to say is, if you are calling for more restrictions and regulations while you are also a foreigner in Japan, don't blame other but yourself if you are not allowed into the country in the near future, or if you become in some other way victim to the restrictions put in place.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Posted in: Hello Kitty and her Sanrio pals are collaborating with a notoriously bloody horror anime series See in context

I can never understand these kind of collaborations, it feels like it cheapens both franchises.

It's actually a very good way for these freemium games to lure people who otherwise would have never even thought of installing the app in their phone.

They might not like Higurashi, but they might love Hello Kitty, and just install it because of that.

As for the franchise, Higurashi sadly has been exploited to the point of exhaustion.

It has had 2 live movies, 2 seasons of a live series, 3 anime seasons adapting the original novel, 1 anime season of extra unrelated cutesy stories, 1 OVA of a short novel wrote by the original author, 8+ different manga adaptations for each of the arcs of the original novel, and then more for non-canon ones, 5 re-adaptations of the original visual novel with extra content for PS2, Nintendo DS, PS3, PS4, PS5/Nintendo Switch, 2 different "collection" editions of the original novel, 2 different paper novelizations of the original novel, 2 different 3D action battle games inspired by the novels, like 3 or 4 different Pachinko and Slot games, and now this smartphone game to follow this new 2 seasons of anime meant as a sequel to the original novel, and a companion manga adaptation...

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Posted in: Japan to introduce 'vaccine passports' for international travel See in context

From what source you take that this will be the only way to certify vaccination? nothing in this article says so nor I have found anywhere this information. It is mentioned it is used to make things "easier" or more convenient, but not that it will be the only way to do it.

From the fact that right now they are doing something similar to "track" people who are getting into the country.

Right now you are required to have a smartphone and install like 3 different applications in order to get into the country.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Posted in: Japan to introduce 'vaccine passports' for international travel See in context

One point that I see most people who are in the "this is not a big deal" camp fail to understand is that this measure, at least in its current form, is completely unnecessary.

It would make more sense if, for example, some place that is Covid free like Australia or NZ required some form of vaccine certificate at borders, as some countries do to avoid carrying either in or out some illness that either is local or the place is free of.

In this case, you just need to prove that you have received the vaccine by any means necessary and you are free to go. This is the way border quarantine sections have worked for years in respect to some specific vaccines.

This thing thou, is different. Requiring having not just a certificate, but a very specific certificate means more hops you have to jump, also requiring having a device and an specific app is not really helping.

It would be nice if there was an app you can use to use as your vaccine certificate, but making it the ONLY way to get the certificate seems like a very intransigent and bureaucratic system. Also, of course there will be privacy and security concerns for the application, so that also makes it not that great.

And the final point that makes this useless is, SARS-CoV-2 is already widespread within this country, so putting a vaccination check at the border is really not doing much.

Once again, we are in a time in which COVID-19 is already a preventable disease. If you are vulnerable or are afraid of the virus, be very careful, do social distancing and stay at home as much as posible, while you wait in line to get your vaccine. After that, there really should be no more problems, so I don't really get why at this is what politicians are talking about, which just create more problems and hate towards vaccination, when what the government should be doing is, working as hard as posible so that people who need the vaccines can get them as soon as posible, and try to convince the rest of the population of the benefits of the vaccine instead of trying to strong arm them to vaccinate, while not giving back any freedoms.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Posted in: Contagious and concerning: What we know about COVID-19 variants See in context

The short thing about this is, variants are nothing more but mutations, they happen in many viruses, including influenza, and it's nothing new at all, the main variant of SARS-CoV-2 has been changing, for example, the original SARS-CoV-2 that appeared in Wuhan is not the same variant as the one that became dominant in Europe back in march of the last year.

One of the points that the media and fear mongers have been pushing is this idea that variants are somehow deadlier, more contagious, ineffective against the vaccine and many other things that make it somehow "worse".

The truth of the matter is, even thou there are some variants that do appear to be more contagious, and that do appear to be less effective at avoiding complete contagion from person to person after vaccinated, none of the known variants are actually deadlier, or are not affected by vaccination.

I repeat, vaccines are still very effective against ALL known variants. Some of them are a little less effective, in the sense that you might actually get some minor symptoms, but your chances of actually getting a serious infection become extremely low, and the same thing with death, which is the most important role of the vaccines.

Also, because the main vaccines have already been developed, developing specific vaccines for a variant would be extremely easy, so EVEN IF, and I repeat, this has NOT YET HAPPENED, but even if a variant would somehow escape the current vaccines, creating a new vaccine against that variant would be very simple.

In other words: "Variants" are normal, there is really nothing among current variants that is of mayor concern to the general population.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Posted in: Japan to introduce 'vaccine passports' for international travel See in context

Love the one you are with, love the country you live in.

Sorry, but these are condescending platitudes.

Tell that to someone with a mother dying of cancer, to someone who hasn't been able to see their families for years, and were planning on seeing them in 2020, people who have been told they have just a few months to live.

One of the reasons why this is so infuriating is because there is no clear timeline or real path to any return to any kind of normality.

The Japanese government have removed all of the time limits originally put when all these restrictions started, and now they are kind of permanent.

It is also infuriating because most people in Japan really could not care less about these restrictions. Even people who like to go travel to other countries just see it as a minor inconvenience, which isn't the same when part of your life is in another country, but international people are a minority and therefore we do not matter.

It is infuriating that business and well connected people have been able for the most part to do whatever they want and continue to travel without much inconvenience.

I mean, the quarantine rule works mostly if you have a place to crash in Tokyo, or have enough money to pay for a good and expensive hotel, where you will be able to work without much problem.

For the rest of us, these quarantines make travel mostly imposible, specially if you live far away from Tokyo, and do not have the luxury to just take a 2 week plus vacation, just to comply with quarantine requirements.

Yeah, I can "chat online" with people in other countries, but it actually has become painful to talk with a good friend of mine who lives alone in London, looking how his mental health has been getting worse and worse as these lockdowns and restrictions go on. I was supposed to go see him last year, and he was supposed to go to other countries to visit some other friends, because basically all of his friends are in other countries... but he hasn't been able to do that.

He suffers from clinical depression, and its just painful to see him in his current state. I'm thinking of even going to London, to be basically on house arrest just to be with him for a few days, and then waste a lot of money time and effort just to comply with quarantine. In fact most of my schedule and budget would be spent in quarantine measures.

And, once again, for what exactly?

What are we gaining with these border closures?

What are we gaining with these ridiculous restrictions?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Posted in: Japan to introduce 'vaccine passports' for international travel See in context

The scientific basis for this are just complete non-sense to no existent.

The fact that it will only be implemented on borders tells you about the real agenda of this, which is more overreaching border regulations. The virus is already widespread inside Japan, so this, even if it worked extremely well, will not stop a virus that is already inside the country.

This also means that the well connected will be the first in line to be able to travel freely, because of easy access to vaccines, and also shows a complete lack of care of people who cannot and should not be vaccinated, like small kids, for which there has been NO vaccine approved anywhere in the world, and for which the vaccine is completely useless, and the risk of the vaccine in this population are higher than COVID itself.

They also are talking about vaccine passports without talking about removing all other restrictions that exist right now at the border, which mean that it could very well be something you will be required to do ON TOP of the existing regulations.

This also mean that for the foreseeable future, no one under 65 will be able to travel.

And, for what?

What is exactly gained with this policy?

The main point is getting as many people as posible vaccinated, and that's about it. COVID-19 will never disappear, but there would be enough community immunity so that there will be no big outbreaks like those experienced in 2020 and 2021, and if the risk groups, which are the main targets of the vaccine, get vaccinated, mortality and hospitalization rates will just return to normal...

So once again, what is the point of this policy?

The virus is already in the country, so for stopping the virus entering the country is completely useless.

But, and here is the sad thing about this, borders and international travel are NOT protected by the constitution, so they are the one point for which the Japanese government can do whatever they want, and no one can even say anything about it, and since they removed the 2 year limit to the "Swine flu and similar infections law", which is what gives power to borders to put these restrictions in the first place, this could well be permanent.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Posted in: Tokyo Olympic organizers defend request for 500 nurses as virus spikes See in context

reluctance to vaccination would prove the opposite from the supposed hysteria from the disease

No, it would be because people like yourself continue to propagate false information about vaccines, saying that they might not work against preventing infection, and basically making it seem like vaccination doesn't really work. The media has also pushed that narrative, so it makes A LOT of sense that people are becoming reluctant to vaccinate if it won't help at all.

the reference from America would also “prove” the disease is being underestimated for political reasons

Not sure if you read the article, but 1~5% was the correct answer. most people, from either side of the political spectrum got it wrong, and basically almost no one said 0%. Don't really get how that be translated into "underestimating", but either way, that doesn't mean that MOST people haven't been overestimating the threat level, which the poll pretty clearly shows to be true.

 NHK source do not prove the worries or measures taken by the public are unjustified as you said

It is literally the second question from the poll.

第2問 あなたは、新型コロナウイルスに感染する危険を、どの程度身近に感じていますか。 

Your last source even contradicts your whole point. Saying that 59% of the transmission is caused by people without symptoms

That study includes pre-symptomatic people, and I've already addressed that pre-symptomatic people are a different risk category from asymptomatic ones. So no, it doesn't contradicts my point.

pre-symptomatic people count as asymptomatic up to the point they begin showing symptoms

Already addressed this previously. So I'm going to quote myself again from a previous comment

"The main push by experts to isolate asymptomatic patients come from the fear that they might be pre-symptomatic, but then if that was the only real fear the time of isolation should be a few days after a positive test to see if the patient develop symptoms, but currently quarantines of asymptomatic patients can go from anywhere of 2 weeks to more than a month."

measures are made with the principle of being rational and assumed to be efficient based on the experience and authority of the experts

I can name you different experts with the same level of expertises and authority in the academic community with completely contradicting positions. In fact, many of well respected experts that have been against many of these measures, like John P. A. Ioannidis from Stanford, yet, experts against measures have been largely ignored, and many times, depending on the level of hysteria, they have been unfairly attacked by the media.

John Ioannidis is an excellent example, because he was highly criticized by the media for a serology study he did, and was attacked without no evidence that he was paid by political groups to fabricate the study.

A year after this, many other studies of the same nature have shown up, and most of them have basically the same type of results.

Appeal to authority isn't science, and blind fate in authority will not make good to anyone. Experts are ordinary people with the same kind of biases than anyone else, and their opinion isn't clear of those by any stretch of the imagination, and the way policy makers have been pick and choosing what experts to hear paints a different story.

We need independent risk assessments of the measures, yet, they have been implemented without proper risk assessments.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Posted in: Tokyo Olympic organizers defend request for 500 nurses as virus spikes See in context

Saying that asymptomatic transmission is a minority is completely different from what you said

It is not, I told you that was the main reason why this over focus on asymptomatic people makes no sense

One report does not make consensus, specially before pre and post peer review, there is nothing wrong with waiting until clear evidence is available to validly say vaccination prevents transmission.

You really are an antivaxxer.

There is already clear evidence that vaccines work, so stop talking like if they have not been proved to do that.

Your sources talk about using masks when in close proximity in locker rooms (not while exercising heavily) and to prevent possible exposure while confirming infection

Yet, all gyms in this country have implemented rules to use masks everywhere, even selling "sport-masks", whatever that pseudoscientific thing is. Do you want links to every single gym that has those rules?

that is again completely different from supposed recommendations to use masks everywhere and at every time (inside cars) as you misrepresented.

Your source says nothing about reclassifying COVID after evidence of incomplete control

It does, talk about reclassifying COVID as a Category 5, like I just explained. I don't know what kind of wording you are looking for or what "evidence of incomplete control" even means, but here is one of the quotes:


 the law was modified to preserve these measures over the preliminary time

The law already allowed them for 2 years of leaving the designated infection classification, with a single extension at the end of that year. As far as I'm aware not even 2 years have passed, yet, they modified the law the next month after the extension to allow the classification to be "indefinitely", meaning, it is not "preliminary time", now that there is no pressure to properly classify the illness, it can be permanently in that category

You said patients from COVID were treated as if they had Ebola, that is false

Never said that patients with COVID were treated as if the had Ebola, I said, and I quote from my previous comment "Because of the classification that the government continues to use for SARS-CoV-2, putting it in the same category as the black death and Ebola, most hospitals actually cannot and will not take any SARS-CoV-2 patients".

Read the comments properly first instead of creating these strawmans.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Posted in: Tokyo Olympic organizers defend request for 500 nurses as virus spikes See in context

What expert recommendation consists on letting asymptomatic patients live their normal life without isolation as you said? none.

The WHO, CDC and many other health organizations have said that asymptomatic transmissions are rare. The main push by experts to isolate asymptomatic patients come from the fear that they might be pre-symptomatic, but then if that was the only real fear the time of isolation should be a few days after a positive test to see if the patient develop symptoms, but currently quarantines of asymptomatic patients can go from anywhere of 2 weeks to more than a month.

And as I said, in patients who are young, without contact with vulnerable people, people who had COVID-19 in the past and vaccinated patients, isolating them is just a pure waste of time and effort, specially vaccinated people who are the group less likely to transmit the virus even if infected.

A proper risk management approach looks for wastes of resources and points where taking action translates in very little change.

These are not real points of concern for experts, but for the general population, media and opportunistic politicians, they cannot talk about anything else. I mean, just look at yourself continue to talk about this instead of talking about more important things like vaccinate the vulnerable.

Produce this recommendation if you are so sure they have been done, because I have never seen them except on very extraordinary situations (like cohabitation with a positive case)

Masks on those cases have been proven to be useless. As the WHO recommendation says, the mask recommendation is not supposed to replace the social distance recommendation, and in fact, the WHO has many times talked how social distancing is a magnitude of times more important than mask wearing, as social distancing has actually pretty solid data behind, unlike masks that most of the evidence are pretty simplistic observational studies.

Not only that, places like Saitama has called for people to use masks inside their homes if they "feel bad", so it is not just for positive cases.

 have seen neither the government pushing for use of masks during heavy exercise but instead to close the gyms or working out keeping a prudent distance. This is not hysteria at all and specially not one being originated by the government.

The ministry of health, in their "senarios to avoid clusters" have made an example of a gym, and made the recommendation to use masks to "avoid clusters".

All of the gyms, the main reason why they are doing this, and implementing as many rules as posible is so that they do not get targeted by the government and get shut down, and they really do not care if they put people's life at risk because of this.

And the government for the most part here in Japan has ignored gyms because of this.

It really doesn't matter what the source is thou, the WHO has recommended for exercise to occur without masks, and all the sports gyms in this country have done the complete oposite of that rule, and I don't see anyone really giving an f about that, because that is not the type of "follow the science" that flies in the middle of a mass hysteria event like this.

Produce a source for this, 

Here you go:

This explains the whole rationale behind the extension of putting SARS-CoV-2 in a separate category for another year, when the original 1 year as a designated illness was about to expire.

They made the point that "we still do not know many things", as an excuse, and following the true intentions to do this, because if they just let the law expire, they would have to remove things like the quarantine measures for borders, and that inside the "Japanese Association of Public Health Center Directors" there were people who thought that SARS-CoV-2 should be classified as a Category 5 disease.

Basically they are just buying time for either the public opinion to change, or for creating a new law and category specially just for SARS-CoV-2.

Why are you going to quote something if you are not going to read it at all? it clearly says "by pandemic standards" 

Tell me of other pandemic that has done this. The original 2009 law was actually modified on February of this year, so that the classification could remain without a time limit.

This has never been done in another pandemic, so where are this "standards" you talk about coming from?

The patients do not require treatment on the very few specialized hospitals and complete and strict isolation independently of symptomatically, hospitals are allowed to keep, test and even send samples to other institutions without problem, everything they use do not require special processes of disposal and disinfection but just the usual infected material protocols, a very long etc

You did not answer my question at all. You are basically explaining the difference of treatment between Ebola and COVID-19, which has nothing to do with the categorization.

Once again, process of disposal and such has to do with the BSL of the handled material, and has nothing to do with the category of the disease in the infectious disease categories.

And which diseases require a BSL of samples that is simmilar to COVID-19, influenza or Ebola?

What are you even talking about. I was talking about the categories of infectious diseases by law and the rules around them. BSL has NOTHING to do with that, so stop talking about it, it has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Strawman, again this is not about avoiding "any kind of infection" but the world class standard of avoiding completely unnecessary infections from a well known vector of spreading that are the asymptomatic patients

Oh my god. The WHO has said that asymptomatic transmission is rare. If you are so scared of asymptomatic transmission, once again, why don't we do this for ANY other illness with similar or higher infection rate?

Polio, which has a magnitud of times higher fatality rate, is a category II infection, and it DOESN'T require asymptomatic people to be isolated.

And the references? at what times were those polls made? where?

I'm starting to get sick that I have to provide sources for everything, while you can just continue to talk all you want without having to back up your statements with nothing.

Here are some polls:

Your personal opinion is, again, completely irrelevant, how about an official declaration from a well recognized scientific or medical professional institution that supports specifically that there is no need to focus in isolation of asymptomatic cases?

And I can go on and on and on...

 if there is a small cost of acting with a margin of safety and a huge cost from doing the opposite it is perfectly valid and understandable to choose safety,

Where is the risk assessment for these measures? There have been absolutely no cost estimation for measures taken, and have been taken mostly impulsively without any risk assessment done.

The WHO and UNICEF have made recently an statement that 228 million people, mostly children, are now at risk for diseases such as measles, yellow fever and polio because of disruptions caused by measures taken for the COVID-19 pandemic.

I really do not understand how 228 million people at risk of dying is seen as a "small cost"

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Posted in: Tokyo Olympic organizers defend request for 500 nurses as virus spikes See in context

There has been no "complete hysteria" in the communications from experts nor in the general treatment of the media, that is an imaginary complain.

It is hysteria, because "expert recommendations" have been ignored depending on how much popular support they have.

Let's start simple with mask recommendations, which the WHO only recommends usage of masks on closed spaces when social distancing is not posible, yet, the government and media has pushed for everyone using their masks even outside, in their own cars, and even in their own homes.

Other recommendation by the WHO is the one about masks when doing exercise. The WHO says that using masks when exercise is actually dangerous, yet, in places like this country if you go to a GYM now you are forced to use a mask, which by WHO expert recommendations is dangerous.

And I can go on and on, like the WHO recommending against closing borders, experts recommending against surface "deep cleaning", and experts saying that people with vaccines, depending on the age, have up to 99% protection against serious illness, even with "variants", but the media and some politicians keep this fear narrative of how vaccines do not work with variants, which is 100% false.

People need to isolate, your personal feelings about it are irrelevant and you have absolutely no understanding of how leprosy patients have been treated, go to Higashimurayama and see the National Hansen's Disease Museum so you can actually see what this would mean.

I don't live in Tokyo, so I really cannot go there.

People who are vulnerable should isolate until they are vaccinated, and people who are in contact with vulnerable people should be careful and probably not come into contact with vulnerable people even if they are asymptomatic.

And I agree, this has nothing to do with my feeling, neither yours. Which is why it is a little bit ironic that this hysteria talk around the pandemic has made it worse. People with symptoms are not going to hospitals because they are afraid they might end up with a positive COVID-19 diagnosis, which could and have meant that they lose their jobs and income, so people just keep their mouths shut, which is actually WORSE.

Not to mention that I know personally of a case of someone who was almost killed because of this over focus on COVID-19, in which hospitals would not even take a good look at him because he had a fever, and ended up having a bacterial infection, which almost made him lose his fingers and hearing just because he wasn't given timely attention.

The classification change is valid and old by the pandemic standards

This classification was created in 2009, so no, it is not old at all. The old way of doing things was by allowing one year of special classification of an illness to allow more freedom to handle an emergent virus, for which you still do not know how to properly treat, after that the disease would be properly classified according to things like the mortality rate of the virus, seriousness of infection, and spread rate.

SARS-CoV-2, as it has been said by experts here in Japan, should be classified as a Category 5 disease based on the objective points I just said, which is why the government now had to use yet another special classification, instead of Classifying it as one of the 5 normal categories.

This special classification was created on 2009 when there was another, even way more ridiculous health scare panic with the "Swine Flu" pandemic, which ended up being way less deathly than normal seasonal flu, but it created fear enough to push politicians to create this new classification, which allows a disease to ignore the objective classification rules, and give disease who would had get a lower classification using the normal rules a higher classification.

 that means you are still mistaken and the disease is not even close to be treated as the Plague or Ebola

The rules are basically the same, so, please explain me how am I mistaken?

Category I diseases are extremely different, require BSL4 contaiment facilities and specialized personnel to be managed that obviously do not apply for COVID-19, the rest of the treatment for the patients is again much more similar to H5N1 and SARS, as it should be.

BSL or biosafety level a completely different thing, which has to do with how safe or unsafe it is to handle biological matter and pathogens, and it has nothing to do with the disease category classification. For example, the Black Plague is a Category 1 infectious disease, but it has a BSL3 level of risk.

Please don't mix things that have nothing to do with one another just to push your narrative.

This is standard around the world, and completely contradicts your mistaken idea that asymptomatic people should be left to live normally. 

It is standard for COVID-19 because of panic, but doesn't mean it is how we normally do things, or the way things should be done. Asymptomatic spread is limited, and your main concern is avoiding hospitalizations and deaths, so this over focus with isolating asymptomatic cases is just a waste of resources and time, because not only you will never catch all asymptomatic patients, you are putting a lot of pressure on factions of the population that are the less affected by the virus.

Once again, let's think with rational risk management instead of the "let's do everything and anything to avoid any type of infection".

The law of diminishing results always apply to these over reactions, and the damage created can be even higher than the damage avoided.

people are not in fear and most are simply taking perfectly logical measures to prevent infection, All in line with the recommendations of the medical and scientific community of the world.

They are not. Once again, I already explained it, but people are using masks outside of the science based recommendations by the WHO. There have been polls of how deadly the average person believes SARS-CoV-2 to be, and just about 20% of the population gets it right, with more than half of the population believing it is way way way way way more severe than what it actually is.

People are not being rational, and the way, for example, things like border rules are implemented is arbitrary and completely useless, and creates way more damage than what SARS-CoV-2 could ever do to the population.

I hate this, because SARS-CoV-2 is a serious disease, but instead of taking the actions necessary to avoid the vulnerable populations, we are causing way more damage to society than the risk of SARS-CoV-2, which I already said it is a serious disease, so the damage here is very serious.

Your beliefs about panic being the reason why hospitals are not receiving any significative support are a non-argument, you simply don't understand the meaning and use of the national law of infectious diseases and think a hospital can magically be prepared to safely deal with COVID patients without putting in risk their personal and other patients AND very importantly without going bankrupt for the lack of their usual business.

If the personal are all vaccinated as they should, their risk is virtually NONE. Once again, if people who are at risk get vaccinated, their risk is also virtually none, so it really doesn't matter at that point.

There is where the focus should be, but it is almost like everyone has become antivaxxer who believes that vaccines "are not the solution to this problem".

Thanks to vaccines, deaths from SARS-CoV-2 can now really be classified for the most part as preventable.

Once again, the problem with SARS-CoV-2 is that it has a somewhat high mortality rate with some sectors of the population. We should try to avoid these people getting infected, or protect them with vaccination, instead of this over focus with number of cases, and if someone has a fever, which do nothing more than create fear and panic and solve no problem at all.

What you suggest is not "dropping the fear" it only means dropping the scientific based regulations and measures necessary for the control of the disease for a personal bias against the valid treatment of a disease that must be treated with proper care in order to avoid widespread contagion and the consequent unnecessary deaths, as it is easy to see from the tragic examples of other countries.

Many of the regulations that have taken place during this pandemic are not based on any hard science, but on simulations and opinions.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Posted in: Tokyo Olympic organizers defend request for 500 nurses as virus spikes See in context

And them promptly close, because that would be a much better business than losing money being open. There is no law that can make a hospital to keep running debts.

Changing the tone from complete hysteria to rational risk management from the media and politicians, as well as speeding up vaccination for vulnerable people would solve this problem.

If anything, I find it highly immoral that people who are victims of SARS-CoV-2 are treated as almost leprosy patients were treated a few decades ago.

No, that is old news, from February COVID-19 has been designated 新型インフルエンザ等感染症 or "infectious disease of the type of new influenza strains" and still category II is the closest to it, it is completely in a separate group and not similar at all with category I, wich is what you mistakenly said.

The classification change was just a change on the law that rules the designed special classification, as the original designated classification law just allow for temporary designation, and a year passed, so they made use of the law created in 2009 on the wake of the swine flu scare, which allows them to keep this classification almost indefinitely.

The specific rules of the classification have actually not changed that much. It is still way more similar to Category I. You don't have to take my word, you can look at this simple comparison table:

That is not correct at all, first because asymptomatic transmission is perfectly possible and even common so asymptomatic patients should be isolated until there is no realistic possibility of transmission from them

If your goal is zero risk, then yes, but that's not the way we treat any other illness.

If the risk is low as it is with asymptomatic people, specially young people, healthy people, people who already have good immunity because of a previous infection or because of the vaccine, it makes little to no sense to restrict them.

and second because even symptomatic people would be treated this way, it is obviously worse for the control of a disease to reduce its category.

Once again, risk management is the main point of a good public health policy, not health panic and scares like this whole debacle has been handled.

Symptomatic people have way more risk of becoming contagious, which it would make more sense asking them to stay at home until most of the vulnerable population has been vaccinated, but even then it is still a problem of risk management, and common sense should continue to apply.

They are treated as an slightly different category II for perfectly valid reasons and your suggestion would only complicate things and facilitate (even more) spreading of the disease, all because of a mistaken assumption that you could obligate private hospitals to treat patients instead of actually compensate them so they considerate the idea as sure bankruptcy.

The whole "category II" thing is what the government has been saying, but once again, when you see the specifics of the current categorization, it is way closer to Category I.

The reasons are really not that valid, outside of fear and anxiety by the public. Last year they were already considering dropping the virus to category 5, and it would have probably dropped if it wasn't because of the constant fear mongering and panic porn portrayed by the media and some opportunistic politicians.

Once again, let's have a little more perspective, specially here in Japan, there are way more deadly diseases that do not receive this special treatment, so why would this one be different?

It is quite simple, the government could give support to the hospitals right now so they could be included as places where COVID-19 can be treated, but it is not doing it. 

I don't think that is the main reason why there are so few hospitals treating people with COVID-19. It has to do with panic and hysteria. It makes to an extent sense to limit the number of hospitals if people are so scared of going to the hospital and "catch the virus" that they let their cancer grow, which ends up killing them.

Drop the fear at the same time you drop the category, and a more risk based, rational approach to COVID-19 could be posible.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Posted in: Tokyo Olympic organizers defend request for 500 nurses as virus spikes See in context

That blindly assumes any hospital would be willing to take COVID-19, or that it would not have a negative economic impact on their functioning, this is not necessarily true.

It's not a blind assumption, they would be required by law to accept them, as the Japanese law do not allow hospitals to refuse patients, as long as they do not have an illness higher than Category 3 of the infectious disease categorization.

Also, COVID-19 is considered in the Japanese law for infectious diseases as a category II, same as MERS or particularly dangerous strains of influenza, not in the category I of Ebola or the Plague (and therefore can be treated in hundreds of hospitals in the country, not just a handful). 

It is actually not categorized as category II, but as an "designated infectious disease", and the rules they are applying are actually higher than category II and category I.

One of the key differences between category II and category I is that category I adds measures for asymptomatic patients, which is totally something that has been done with SARS-CoV-2.

From that, they added 2 new rules that put it higher than category I, which are "Asking for people to not leave their houses" and "Restricting access to buildings".

And classifying it as a level V would make things worse, because it would mean no requirement for notification of cases

False, cases need to be notified, but instead of requiring notification immediately, it has to be done within 7 days.

no requirement either for patients to be hospitalized or isolated (they could continue their normal life if they wanted) 

Which is actually good for people who are asymptomatic. Specially if they have already been infected previously, have the vaccine, or have no contact with people who are vulnerable.

no support from the government to reduce expenses for treatment nor hospitalization (neither for the patient nor for the hospitals), 

The government could give support if they wanted without the infection having to be treated as the Black plague.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Posted in: Tokyo Olympic organizers defend request for 500 nurses as virus spikes See in context

Because of the classification that the government continues to use for SARS-CoV-2, putting it in the same category as the black death and Ebola, most hospitals actually cannot and will not take any SARS-CoV-2 patients, which is the main reason why the healthcare system has been stressed, since just a very few hospitals are the ones taking all the COVID-19 patients, and these hospitals, depending on the number of patients, can become quite overstressed.

Moving these 500 nurses will not stress more the system, because no COVID-19 patient will ever be on the care of those nurses, since, once again, most hospitals are actually not taking COVID-19 patients, so this is a misguided rage.

The real rage should be set at the classification of SARS-CoV-2, and asking the government to put them in category 5, so that all hospitals can actually take COVID-19 patients, therefore ending the problem of lack of resources.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Posted in: What does Japan's virus state of emergency mean this time? See in context

Sadly, more variant fear mongering and plain lies are the final result of these kinds of interventions.

Vaccines work extremely good, even for variants, to prevent serious illness and death, which is what you want, but some media outlets, governments officials are creating misinformation by implying that if, for example, a variant which is more contagious, meaning, easier to spread, means that it could infect easier even people vaccinated are COMPLETELY loosing the whole point of the vaccine.

The vaccine is to prevent bad outcomes, not to eradicate the virus.

Instead of doing these half-meassures that just keep people scared, anxious and in the edge of their seats, the Government should instead focus on speeding up vaccination of vulnerable populations, so that even if there is high community transmission, hospitalizations and deaths can be avoided.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Posted in: Some foreign residents in Japan consider traveling to other countries for vaccines See in context

Gov may be happy with those - no tourism, little immigration, increased repatriation of foreigners. That's a Christmas present for right-wingers who favour their ideology over economics.

Indeed, It has been pretty common see in places like Twitter Japanese nationalists praising all border closures, and have jumped pretty easily to blame any increase in infections on the few thousand people that are allowed monthly into the country with pretty restrictive measures, saying that "the measures are not good enough", and trying to appear like they care about SARS-CoV-2 infections... but they do not.

I pointed out in a previous comment, but Japan numbers of arrival are actually pretty similar to those of Australia, and the border restrictions have continually gotten more and more crazy, to the point that right now there is a very high chance that what they are doing might be illegal, but they are trying to justify it because they force you either sign a contract at the border, or face even more extreme measures, like isolation in a government facility based on the quarantine act.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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