If there's a divide in the legitimate medical community, I will listen to the debate and decide accordingly.
There is no debate, Big Pharma would never allow it.
-9 ( +3 / -12 )
Even if you go above 100 cycles you cannot do it, because the limit of detection of every single protocol for detection of coronavirus in patients is well above the amount of virus present before infection has been established.
You mean by limiting the number of cycles, right? If not how?
Do you even know how PCR works?
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
By next summer we'll be fine...
-8 ( +2 / -10 )
I am aware of the limit of detection, it is extremely low. You can still detect small quantities that are above that level but too low to be indicative of infection (if you accept the signal after 45 cycles). It's not just me saying this, there are many experts complaining about this. But I realize you want people to accept these exagerated results and panic over the casedemic so that they all rush to get your vaccine.
If the swab is contaminated, you can still get a positive signal in all triplicate samples, if they are derived from the same swab.
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
People that think that mRNA has just began to be used this year on humans for example, because that demonstrate that the interest they may have on the topic is not even enough to get properly informed.
Yeah, I was aware they were testing it for cancer, with little/no success. I was thinking in terms of vaccines for infectious diseases, but they were indeed still vaccines, my bad. But I believe they are still experimental.
-4 ( +3 / -7 )
There is no objective data to support closing the schools...
1 ( +8 / -7 )
Yeah, they could. And?
-2 ( +1 / -3 )
Why suddenly all the biology-challenged people become immunology experts beats me.
Yeah, it's quite surprising indeed. But it's clear that these biology-challenged people are provided with documentation from Big Pharma that they rearrange into these long word salads that look impressive on the surface but which actually don't make much sense as they, as you said, are biology-challenged. But I have seen improvements in their posts, where they go from not knowing the different between mRNA and protein two months ago to then giving a clear explanation of mRNA's function... They are learning, I guess it's part of her job.
-5 ( +2 / -7 )
Are you Italian? You keep on bringing up "inespecific" amplification. In my decades of research, I have never come across "inespecific", but googling it brings up some Italian and Spanish researchers using that term.
Anyways, I am not talking about nonspecific amplification. From the start I was talking about the detection of very small amounts of virus, so small that they are not indicative of infection. When you do qPCR, samples with high levels of virus (indicative of infection) will produce a signal within 25-35 signals. This is the recommended number of cycles.
Some countries consider positive cases when the signal shoots up after 40 or 45 cycles, which represent extremely low levels of RNA (virus). Many experts are complaining about this as they do not indicate infection. Nothing in what you wrote addresses this. You're just pasting a bunch of statements from some PCR document you found or was handed to you without actually understanding it. It looks impressive and sophisticated, but it doesn't really make much sense. I don't think I'm the one that should be doing more reading...
what step of the qRT-PCR do you misunderstood to involve qtips?
Yeah, I know they don't really call them Qtips, but I am referring to that thing they shove up your nose when they collect the sample.
When you talk about triplicates, is it from the same swab, that was reverse transcribed and simply aliquoted into three separate PCR reaction tubes? Based on what you wrote, it sounds like you're suggesting three separate swabs were taken. Unless you're only referring to testing the reproducibility of the PCR reaction, which I don't see how that is relevant to what we are talking about...
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
Why would you imagine the vaccines would not be peer reviewed and data made public?
Perhaps you missed the recent JT article "Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine deliveries could start before Christmas".
-3 ( +0 / -3 )
People with dark skin make less vitamin D when exposed to sunlight than light skinned people. In the US, there are way more vitamin D deficient blacks than whites. And there is a clear correlation between vitamin D deficiency and covid19 severity/death. But because we can't discuss race issues openly, nobody is warning about this.
-4 ( +1 / -5 )
Governments will buy the vaccines with their citizens' money and give it to their citizens "free" or affordable prices.
Some people are profiting tremendously.
-4 ( +1 / -5 )
I am aware that the qPCR results are not analyzed by agarose gel electrophoresis.
It does matter how many cycles are considered positive. If the signal shoots up after 60 or 200 cycles, then the amount of RNA detected is too low to be considered an infected person.
There are experts in several countries who are complaining that the PCR cycles that are considered positive are way too high, for example if the product shoots up after 45 cycles they will consider it a positive (in some countries). What the Japanese testers consider a positive, I don't know.
Also, when you talk about doing PCRs in triplicate. Are you suggesting they shove 3 Qtips up the person's nose?
-1 ( +0 / -1 )
and are as experimental as all previously ones that are in use right now, the technology have been used for years in humans without problems on thousands over thousands of volunteers over many different applications.
mRNA vaccines? Are you sure?
-9 ( +3 / -12 )
Your conspiracy requires for every health professional in the world...
You keep on saying this, but it is completely false.
All it requires is for health professionals to do what they were taught in school. Most of the health professionals who figure out something is fishy will say nothing as to not damage their career or funding, while quietly avoiding vaccinating their loved ones. And those health professionals who actually speak out will be attacked and silenced, and comments about them will be deleted from forums (as we recently witnessed).
Those behind the planned reset are speaking openly about it, if only one is willing to listen.
Anyway regarding whether one should take any of the upcoming rushed experimental vaccines, there is an interesting article that brings up some good points:
What the Leading COVID Vaccine Contenders Still Need to Tell the Public
-9 ( +5 / -14 )
At least this vaccine has the virus, in the vaccine to get a response
It does have a virus, that was isolated from chimp poop. I wonder what kind of cell line they are using to produce the vaccine. A monkey cell line? Human fetal cell line? No way I will ever get that vaccine.
For all vaccines, we should wait for the data to be peer reviewed and made public; and not rely on Big Pharma press releases. But by then, most of us will likely be immune already.
-12 ( +1 / -13 )
Help the health care facilities increase capacity and protect the vulnerable, and get out of the way!
-1 ( +3 / -4 )
Either that or they do believe them, and feel a sense of entitlement whereby they don't need to obey them.
Those rules are just for controlling the people, rather than health, and it id all part of the coming great reset.
-2 ( +0 / -2 )
with no professional medical expertise , i see no other way but to trust the makers of the vaccine.
Oh, you trust bigpharma! Perhaps you should have a look at this paper.
Other vaccines have taken up to a decade to be developed, this one took less than a year.
Yeah, and even some of those vaccines have resulted in severe side effects. Such as the HPV vaccine resulting in hundreds of deaths and thousands of paralysis according to the VAERS data.
Also, to allow the rapid use of this vaccine they had to ignore all the positive data on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine (https://c19study.com); with bigpharma trolls insisting there is a consensus on HCQ not being beneficial.
I certainly will not be taking any of these new rushed experimental vaccines.
-11 ( +16 / -27 )
Healthy people DO need a vaccine, it reduces the risk of having a serious complication or death, that do happen to people without any preexisting condition.
Perhaps it decreases the risk, perhaps it increases it.
Time will tell.
For now, healthy people should wait to get the vaccine, especially this rushed experimental vaccine.
And I hope independent researchers will be allowed to inspect the data and we don't need to rely only on the BigPharma press releases.
-7 ( +0 / -7 )
So you don't know how many cycles...
-6 ( +0 / -6 )
President elect? No, just according to the media.
Funny how all reports on most media make it appear like Trump's side has no evidence and is being unreasonable...
-35 ( +4 / -39 )
So how many cycles are used in the Japanese tests? Since you pretend to know so much about it...
-7 ( +0 / -7 )
I am very familiar with PCR and I acknowledge that you have used PCR related terms, but with all due respect, you are not making much sense in the first half of your post. It does not address any of my points.
The second half would be valid only if they are doing the acceptable 25-30 cycles, at most 35. Is that the case? No word salads are needed to address this point.
-9 ( +1 / -10 )
There is no protocol that could report as positive virus that did not underwent replication in the person. That means the person is infected or has been until recently.
There are plenty of experts that have come out and stated that when you go above 35 cycles, you can detect very small quantities of RNA and cannot be considered proof of infection. Many countries use 40 or more cycles, resulting in many false positives. I don't know about Japan...
To detect contamination instead of infection it would mean that every sample would turn up positive by inespecific amplification, which obviously is not happening.
Yeah, that is if they contaminated a reagent used in all their reactions. That's not what I was referring to.
-8 ( +2 / -10 )
*A case does not mean one is sick**.*
It absolutely does in Japan. They don't test you otherwise.
Don't they also test those who came in contact with those who tested positive?
*A case does not mean one is sick. It doesn't even mean one is infected.*
Since when SARS-CoV-2 is classified as resident flora in Homo sapiens?
It just means the person has some virus up their nose, it does not need to be viable virus. Depending on how many cycles they do, you don't need many particles to get a positive result.
Or perhaps a sloppy technician contaminating the sample.
-11 ( +1 / -12 )
A case does not mean one is sick. It doesn't even mean one is infected. The case number is meaningless, mainly used to scare people.
-14 ( +4 / -18 )
Oh, does this mean I should refund the electricity consumed by my office coffee machine?
0 ( +0 / -0 )
The covid death rate in Tokyo has not changed for months, with about one death daily.
Cases (PCR positives) don't worry me at all.
-19 ( +3 / -22 )