SJ comments

Fabrication and distortion for mystification at the level of government, as shown in the noisy audio stream published yesterday by the JSD, has a far longer history and a far deeper origin than most people surmise. It covers from the old stone age to the modern Abe administration period, originating from the term 'Japanese' itself glorified in Nihon Shoki:

Summary: https://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455/

Detailed: https://www.amazon.com/Ruins-Identity-Ethnogenesis-Japanese-Islands/dp/0824821564 (No time or no money? Just read the book review)

It is marvelous that the Abe administration could have instigated domestic anti-Korean sentiment for a month without any evidence so far, but just with a mediocre sitcom-like YouTube video footage, whose major subscribers are supposed to be toddlers and kids. Once again, it demonstrated how easily any politician can brainwash and control Japanese jingoists. It was finished with a noisy audio stream.

Good job!

@kwatt

@SJ

I still want to hear you as though you said bunch of your things. I ask concretely If you looked at the picture in an article that shows mother taking a picture of her child holding a little flag with anti-SKorean hate-speech group holding big flags together in Tokyo. Not in Seoul. Would you say "Regarding the photo in this article, I do not see any problem"? This is I want to hear, nothing else.

In S. Korea, I have never seen any hate-speech group based on nationality. Teaching the past history does not mean hatred.

What is happening in Japan regarding history education, I just cite one example.

After World War II, it became common to use the term Japanese to mean all the inhabitants of the Islands, past and present. In his 1951 book Nihon Minzoku no Keisei (The Formation of the Japanese People), Toma Seita takes the basic approach that "The Japanese have inhabited this Japanese archipelago from the beginning" (Toma 1951, 1). Historian Inoue Kiyoshi (1963, 1) writes, "From as far back in our history as it is possible to go through until the present, we Japanese have lived as the same race (shuzoku) in the same region the present Japanese archipelago." The influence of this view in contemporary Japan is shown by Bornoff's (1991, 25) description of a small boy's visit to the 1988 Tokyo National Science Museum exhibition on Japanese origins:*

"Although we are Jomon people," [the boy] read aloud from a notice flanking the exhibit, "we can speak Japanese." When [one of the female attendants pretending to be a Jomonette] congratulated him effusively on his reading abilities, the little boy cried out "Yappari, Nihonjin-da!" with a mixture of surprise and relief: "I thought soshe's Japanese!" The thought that Jomon people might have been otherwise, even to a small boy, is disturbing.

cited from the book "Ruins of Identity: Ethnogenesis in the Japanese Islands" by Mark Hudson (1999).

@happyhour

Why are the Japanese holding back the evidence?

Let's hope that they do have so called an 'evidence' to hold back, although I am skeptical about it. If they do have it, then they would show more generous and composed responses.

Every Japanese alcoholic product equals or is better than the original ones. Japanese whiskey is a world class. I love it. My favorite one is Japanese Shōchū fermented and distilled from sweet potato, which is ubiquitous in Japanese supermarkets. Unfortunately the climate of the Japanese archipelagos are not suitable for cultivating grape, producing nice wine.

@tokyo-star

but the video exposed SK's blatant lies and wriggling to get out of the situation: "NK boat in rough weather" vs calm seas in the video; "threatened by J plane's close proximity" vs ample distance/altitude in accordance with international regulations plus the fact that the plane was unarmed, flying slow and circling, ie. hardly posing a threat to a capable modern warship.

Whether it is true or not, it is irrelevant with the issue here regarding the radar lock. Don't waste time in averting the issue.

@robotxparty

Guess the old "evidence" wasn't compelling enough.

Actually the Abe administration has never provided any evidence. The YouTube video is mostly for kids and teens, not for any government or military officials in diplomacy. If they consider it as an evidence, then they are just fools or childish scamps.

Thus, it is spectacular that the Abe administration could have managed to instigate domestic anti-Korean sentiment for a month even without providing any single evidence.

What a mess!

Verbally aggressive Japanese chauvinists now bombard their own player, a self-declared ultra-right wing Japanese politician, Toshio Tamogami, an expert on aircraft defense and the formal Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force. Then, it would not any more surprising that they criticize the S. Korean government and navy, and innocent Korean citizens, ignoring any fact that may make them suspect their sentimental belief. The Abe administration instigates domestic anti-S. Korean sentiment, which features the process of distorting history and making myth and propaganda for hatred. It is a pity that the old former general has to defend himself under the pressure of those jingoists:

https://twitter.com/toshio_tamogami/status/1084594819979046912

@Samit Basu

The Korean side has concluded from the Japanese description of the signal that it was the I-Band search radar from the Coast Guard ship.

Yes. It is consistent with the following news report:

A military source confirmed Friday that a Korean coast guard ship operated its own radar at the scene in question last month, possibly confusing a Japanese aircraft that it was locked in a warship's fire-control system.

http://world.kbs.co.kr/service/news_view.htm?lang=e&Seq_Code=142372

@Triring

Who is the one that is childish?

To track the origin of your mysterious hatred of Koreans, please read the following article published by a prestigious scholar, Jared Diamond, the author of "Guns, Germs and Steel". It will illuminate your identity ruined and dimmed by the Japanese leaders and scholars.

https://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455/

Now the Abe administration is going to entertain YouTube subscribers (mostly kids and teenagers) with an audio clip, following the mediocre sitcom-like video clip? Let's see. Good luck.

@Jim Harper

If I were South Korean, I suspect I would be very angry about the various actions committed by the pre-democracy regime.

Of course, various actions including some commissions initiated by the Korean government, have been made, and it is still on going. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_(South_Korea)

Based on the investigations, Korean courts have ordered the Korean government to pay compensations to the individual victims and their survived family.

Regarding this case of individual claims from forced labors, the Korean government may have to pay compensation, too, together with the Japanese companies in Korea, depending on the decision of Korea Supreme court in a few years.

@IloveCoffee

I think that's largely a cultural thing, and it has to do with the island mentality and a culture of bullying and shaming people who don't conform to the group norms.

Yes. I also have thought about it, and I have felt the same tendency. But comments in the internet such as this site may not represent the overall thoughts of Japanese people.

@hachikou

You said Japan is island mentality and one-sided view when talking about Korea..

I show you the truth.

There are various people in Korea, and opinions and thoughts greatly differ among Koreans. Personally I do not like some Koreans who do marketing anti-Japanese sentiment to earn money, especially those who make and sell the statues of a girl regarding the sex slave. Some politicians utilize Dokdo and the sex slave issues. That kind of jingoists exist in any country, but can not represent the majority.

But, in Japan, it is different. When reading comments in the internet, I am always surprised that most of Japanese are ultra-right chauvinists.

@OssanAmerica

This in a nutshell is why South Korea continues to pass on anti-Japan sentiment from generation to generation

Do you have any idea what Uwajima Ushi-oni Festival celebrates? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwajima_Ushi-oni_Festival

As long as the Japanese government distort the Japanese history, covering from the old-stone age to the modern period, with respect to neighboring countries, anti-Japan sentiment in your term will continue. If you have not yet heard about the distorted archaeology and anthropology by Japanese political leaders, I would recommend the following book:

https://www.amazon.com/Ruins-Identity-Ethnogenesis-Japanese-Islands/dp/0824821564

Its summary can be found in the following internet link: https://discovermagazine.com/1998/jun/japaneseroots1455/

@kwatt

I hate Japanese "hate-speech demonstration" at all. I never join it. Demonstrators are marching in streets sometimes. If same thing happened really just like happy mother taking a picture of her child in/before the hate-speech group at park, I just wonder, Can you say same thing?

Hate-speech group? Have you ever heard any speech in S. Korea? The only hate-speech group I have seen in Seoul is fundamental, shamanized and Koreanized Christians. You can see them in the front of Seoul station everyday. Most Koreans do not like some diplomatic policies of the Japanese government, not Japanese people. I have many Japanese friends who are far more intellectual than you.

Performance with ancient or foreign attire is common around the world.

Regarding the photo in this article, I do not see any problem. Nowadays, civil demonstrations in the street tend to become a kind of cultural festival in S. Korea, which is unique in the world as they leaded to a shift in the political regime without violence and within the judiciary.

The mother and the children just enjoy an outdoor event as in history museums. I guess they were just bystanders. Only adults with malicious intention will try to pick up a problem there. The problem already exists in their mind set even without the photo, but there is no problem in the real world there. To my eyes, the mother loves the kid, and the kid loves the mother.

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

Some general observations of the site.

As I wrote before, as I am not an legal expert, I do not accept any subjective and unverifiable comments without any citation or link, and I do not want to waste my time in responding to those meaningless gibberish.

Triring

Sorry but although it maybe told that way in SK there are no historical records in EITHER Korea or Japan about any massacre. In other words another lie.

Lack of accurate written records does not always negate that it happened. This is a typical logical fault of the Japanese government and some of its people. During the war, it is nearly impossible to write and leave any written record, not to mentioning counting the numbers of soldiers and civilians, the killed and survived.

Who do you think killed the mother in the following painting in Taikōki?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7898/46795982171_7a44148277_o.png

You can say that there is no record about it and no suspect was captured, and further you can claim that she was not killed by Japanese soldiers. If I say she was killed by Japaneses soldiers, then you will call me a liar, won't you?

@kwatt

It seems that Koreans are still living in the past though most countries could move on from war.

The present could not exist without the past. This kind of historic distort is not just confined to the WWII. Let me say one example.

In Japan, there many peace museums and parks for the WWII, but all of them just emphasize the tragedy and damage of Japanese civilians by the Atomic bombs, never explaining the causes of it, never mentioning the victims from other countries including Korea.

The second example.

I once guided a group of Japanese students from Tokyo University to Korean historic sites for tourism. Later, they said to me that they were surprised that nearly all Buddhist temples were destroyed as many as 3 times (Mongolian invasion in the 13-th century, Japan invasion 1592, and the Korean wear in 1950), and the most destructive event was the 1592 invasion. They said they have never been taught about it. Destroyed and damaged temples is not just a problem of the past, but of the present, too. Japan never teach her history of their invasion of neighboring countries objectively and in detail. But Koreans are well taught and know well what the state called Japan has done to Korea in history, not just for blaming, but for not repeating the same mistake.

If you are Japanese and want to know the related history in detail, please read first the 1592 invasion through Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasions_of_Korea_(1592%E2%80%931598)

Although a Japanese Wiki version of this is available, but it does not have the contents for "Aftermath" and "War atrocities" as in the English version.

For example, during the siege of Jinju (1593), nearly the entire population of the city including women, children and babies were already killed by Japaneses, and Japanese soldiers no longer could see any human to kill further, then killing chickens instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jinju_(1593)

On contrary, today in Japan, they celebrate this tragic event as a festival called Uwajima Ushi-oni Festival: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uwajima_Ushi-oni_Festival

As long as Japan teach her history to their youngsters like this, the conflicts will continue.

Opinion of Japanese legal experts on this matter:

http://justice.skr.jp/estatement.html (Enlgish)

http://justice.skr.jp/statement.html (Japanese)

@BeerDeliveryGuy

Are you talking about SK’s video with motion graphic titles, dramatic BGM, and comprised of 70% stolen footage?

Both of the original Japanese and the embellished S. Korean YouTube video clips. Those kind of video clips are just for entertainment and propaganda. If the Abe administration believed the video clip can be regarded as a serious evidence provided to any foreign country in diplomacy, then their intelligent level is less than little children.

Yes. The S. Korean version of the video clips were more entertaining, at least to me. Probably most kids will agree with me.

BeerDeliveryGuy

They detected the FCR by the alert system (one of the crew members says “FCR detected! Geez that thing is loud”) then in the same pass they made a visual confirmation of the direction of the antenna array and gun.

Even kids show evidence first before arguing with their classmates in school. The Abe administration argues first even before showing any supporting evidence, and continues arguing even without any future plan of providing evidence. Even most educated children do not behave like the Abe administration.

Do you really believe that kind of YouTube video clip emulating a scene of TV drama or sitcom can be regarded as a serious evidence provided officially to any other foreign country in diplomacy?

@extanker

You consider Japan's reluctance a smoking gun but South Korea's reluctance to hand over their ship's radar data is no big deal...

Isn't it obvious to you that the one criticizing the other should first show the relevant evidence? The burden of proof lies in the Abe administration, not in S. Korean government or navy. It is amazing that the Abe administration has been able to criticize the S. Korean navy without any supporting evidence and data so far, and it has been worked at least in Japan. Now the Abe administration requests the military data from S. Korea, yet without showing any willingness to provided its own evidence or data. Wow!

It is spectacular that so many Japanese laymen bombard the twitter messages of Toshio Tamogami, an expert on aircraft defense and the formal Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force. Those verbally aggressive Japanese jingoists attack their own player, an ultra-right wing Japanese politician. They remind me of the Red Guards in China during the 1960s. Then, it would not any more surprising that they criticize the S. Korean government and navy, ignoring any fact that may make them suspect their sentimental belief. It is scary that the Abe administration instigates domestic anti-S. Korean sentiment, exactly the same way as Mao Zedong did to the Red Guards.

https://twitter.com/toshio_tamogami/status/1084594819979046912

As some Japanese criticized the evaluation of Toshio Tamogami,  former Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force, recently he assured again that he is an ultra-right Japanese chauvinist, and added some further elucidation:

http://tamogami-toshio.jp/news/%E9%9F%93%E5%9B%BD%e3%80%80%E7%81%AB%E5%99%A8%E7%AE%A1%E5%88%B6%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%80%E3%83%BC%E7%85%A7%E5%B0%84%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6%E3%81%AB%E9%96%A2%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6/

I understand few Japanese experts can overcome political attacks from those jingoists, but his conclusion is still the same:

火器管制レーダー照射自体が危険であるからという理由では、やがて理由にならなくなるかもしれないのだ。

The fake news from the Abe administration was immediately refuted by its own former Chief of Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force on December 21, the next day of the incident.

https://twitter.com/toshio_tamogami/status/1076127935558340609 (Japanese)

https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/a8sje0/a_rightwing_history_revisionist_and_former/ (English)

https://ironna.jp/article/11560 (Japanese)

And the fake news continues as usual.

@Hillclimber

Or are you just talking about vehicle design and/or quality?

No. I am talking about the Galapagos-like Japanese media on the motor show in Detroit, and its domestic readers.

Japan was ranked the 67-th among the 180 countries in 2018 world press freedom index: https://rsf.org/en/ranking

In Asia,

42 - Taiwan

43 - S. Korea

67 - Japan

70 - Hong Kong

71 - Mongolia

124 - Indonesia

.......

180 - N. Korea

For reference,

45 - United States

I guess the major source of Japanese fake news is the Abe administration itself. Who punishes whom?

FYI, Galapagos,

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/14/business/hyundai-genesis-car-of-the-year/index.html

https://northamericancaroftheyear.org/

If combined with Artificial Intelligence, it may greatly enhance the predictability of disaster.

Another reason of my request of citing external sources is that it is difficult to understand some written English here, especially on legal expertise. Citation of external sources will help anyone understand its context, as most people here are laymen in legal issues, if the discussion continues here or in other threads.