Tangerine2000 comments

Posted in: Time ticking down for Britain to come to Brexit agreement See in context

Although I would love to see one of the EU 27 block an extension, I don't think it's going to happen. It's likely that it will be a one year extension with some guarantees given by May, namely, a second referendum.

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Posted in: Brexiteer Lords try to thwart law forcing May to request EU exit delay See in context

@TumbleDry

And they complained about unelected European Parliament members when most countries hold European elections..

I don't think anyone complains about 'unelected' European Parliament members (MEPs). As you said, they are elected through European elections. They do complain about 'unelected' EU Commission members, though.

As you may or may not know, the EU Parliament has no power to legislate or repeal law. The Commission has the power in that instance.

The Commission members are not elected but are appointed. The MEPs also do not get to approve individual members for the Commission. That is why they are referred to as 'unelected'.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36429482

I am also opposed to the House of Lords and would like to see it abolished.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

Voters were misled by the Tories but they were also stupid enough to believe...

Why is it that time after time on these articles that people who support remaining (not all) boil their argument down to "leave voters are stupid"?

I don't agree with people who want to remain, but I don't feel a need to call them stupid.

Tiger, if you genuinely feel this way, I don't think you can be reasonable about the debate.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

But it's still the case that Jacob "Jackboots" Rees-Mogg and Lying Johnson did not vote for the deal:

They both voted for the deal the third time.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

@PeepingTom

Thanks for the info. I'll have a good look at it.

I have to ask. Why do you keep saying JT "expert"? Do you think I am a mod?

If not, as I said before, if you keep using quotation marks that way, it makes you look like you have an attitude.

You sound quite young, and if so (and if not), I'd turn down the smugness if I were you.

An hint to you: I spent many years studying it; therefore I should know better than many.

there's no point wasting my Latin.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

Except.....that's exactly what Scrote said:

 If they had voted for her deal in the first place the UK would now be out of the EU. Right-wing conservatives have nobody to blame but themselves for what is happening.

You're rowing around in circles again TigersTokyoDome:

 the point is that they have caused damage and encouraged others to follow suit in their own self-serving career interests.

It is a moot point. If Mogg, Johnson and all other Tory Brexiteers had supported May's deal from the beginning, and had sung its praises, and even drummed up support, it still would have failed.

As Scrote pointed out, with all Tories on board it would have been 317 to 316 in favour. However, there are still Tory MPs who are not Brexiteers but who are Hard-Remainers, who also hate Johnson and Mogg, and who didn't support May's deal.

It still wouldn't have passed.

And in anycase, May's deal is not Brexit. It is just Remain without any say in how the rules are made. That is why Hard-Remainers in the Tory party voted against it.

 Right wing Conservatives and right wing politicians have themselves to blame for wanting an impossible Brexit deal. Impossible because why should Brussels hand them the golden egg they desire.

Why is a WTO exit impossible?

 Right wing voters also have themselves to blame for imagining such a ridiculous Brexit deal to be passed through government.

Have themselves to blame? Voters (leavers and remainers) overwhelmingly didn't/don't want May's deal.

A WTO exit doesn't need to be passed through parliament. That is voters want, and it is also the most popular type exit supported by what you deem "right wing" conservatives.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

You are right about the numbers, but you have forgotten that some non conservatives voted for May's deal. And I'm sorry to pick apart what you said, but you did say:

Right-wing conservatives have nobody to blame but themselves for what is happening.

Even if all of the "Right-wing" conservatives such as the ERG (Mogg and Johnson included) had voted for the deal, the remainer Tories (which are quite a few) still voted against May. So, even then, they would still have a right to moan.

To add to that, without the DUP, there was never any hope of getting the deal passed without the help of a substantial number of Labour votes.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

@Scrote

Both Rees-Mogg and Lying Johnson have criticised May for talking to Corbyn. If they had voted for her deal in the first place the UK would now be out of the EU.

I don't believe this is correct. Even if all of the Brexiteer Tories had voted for May's deal, there still wouldn't have been enough in number.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

An hint to you: I spent many years studying it; therefore I should know better than many.

there's no point wasting my Latin.

I'm sorry I do not match your intellect.

Also you need to read the European Union Act 2011 to realise you actually are in the dark.

And that is the real problem colleagues, why there is such a problem in this crisis, because member states are reluctant to transfer new sovereignty and powers to the European Union, and we know that the only way out of this crisis is a new transfer of powers to the European Union and to the European Instituions.

Guy Verhofstadt, Chief Brexit Co-Ordinator in the European Parliament, 2018

Video of speech given by Guy Verhofstadt in the European Parliament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzNPpmIFuK0

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

@Peepingtom

Nice attempt to avoid answering because you can't.

If the electorate is dissatisfied they can elect another Parliament; that's why there are elections.

As you said:

A Parliament cannot be bound, even by its own previous decisions.

So when the Sovereignty of the British people and its Parliament are handed over to Brussels by the current bunch in Westminster, the next Parliament will be bound with no recourse.

British people can show there dissatisfaction at the ballot box, sure. However, they (people and parliament) won't be able to get back want has been handed over.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

An hint to you: I spent many years studying it; therefore I should know better than many.

Did you mean "A hint?"

You seem to have completely missed what I have said.

"You seem to be unaware that Parliament is not sovereign. The British people are sovereign."

I am replying to these two statements that you made.

The British Parliament is showing tthe entire world they are Sovereign and have been so throughout.

I'm saying it hasn't been. They gave their sovereignty back to the people for that decision.

Parliament is sovereign.

Please note that at no time did I say that there is no such thing as Parliamentary Sovereignty. I said:

You seem to be unaware that Parliament is not sovereign. The British people are sovereign.

If you have studied it, you should know that Parliamentary Sovereignty is broken down into two types. There is Legal Sovereignty (Parliament) and Political Sovereignty (The People).

However, even in the case of Legal Sovereignty, even though Parliament has the ability to legislate any law it likes, the final check on that body is the British people themselves, and any laws that it passes rely on them being accepted by the population in general.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

@Peepingtom

Parliament is sovereign. They can revoke/annul the Brexit vote ANY TIME they like.

You seem to be unaware that Parliament is not sovereign. The British people are sovereign. The British Parliament is elected by the people, not the other way round.

This is something that all MPs, whether they are remainers or leavers have stated countless times.

Parliament is loaned sovereignty every 5 years through elections. Seeing as Parliament decided that the question about leaving the EU should be given back to the British public, they acquiesced the sovereignty that they were given on that decision.

I am quite surprised that you didn't know this.

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

Labour also have a huge problem:

"If UK not agreed deal by April 12th & EU refuses extension, what should happen?"

TORIES

No deal 76%

Remain 19%

Don't know 4%

LABOUR

No deal 26%

Remain 61%

Don't know 14%

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Posted in: Labour's Corbyn says Theresa May has not moved enough on Brexit See in context

Further breakdown of polling information from 1 April:

No Deal vs Remain by region:

NON-LONDON SOUTH

No deal 50%

Remain 40%

MIDLANDS

No deal 49%

Remain 38%

NORTH

No deal 45%

Remain 40%

LONDON

No deal 30%

Remain 54%

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/04/02/what-do-public-think-might-break-brexit-deadlock?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=national_government

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Posted in: May gambles on talks with Labour to unlock Brexit, enraging her own party See in context

YouGov latest poll:

If Brexit deal is not agreed by 12th April:

40% Leave with no deal

11% Extension

36% Remain

13% Don't know

If the EU refuses to give an extension:

44% Leave with no deal

42% Remain

13% Don't know

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/04/02/what-do-public-think-might-break-brexit-deadlock?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=national_government

Let's leave.

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

@AlfieNoakes

I meant to ask...do you honestly feel that the BBC is pro-Brexit?

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

@TigersTokyoDome

You've said that they all disappeared, but then said "not" disappeared, but "not there". Then you're saying it's their fault for not leading Brexit, but then acknowledge that they had no control over the process. Now you're saying "Yes, but no, but yes......they didn't have a plan for Brexit".

All three have plans which have been published in the British press multiple times. Mogg, Johnson and Farage have been on the TV and radio giving the same spiel about what they would do, with details of how they would do it, ever since the referendum.

Tangerine, like I said you definitely need some research.

I don't think you're actually interested in finding out whether what you have said is accurate. It seems like you're circling around to the same points without addressing anything.

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

Actually, now that I have checked the list on YouGov and compared, considering you said that the Guardian 'was' good before becoming "Blairite", and that you think the "i" is OK, I think I have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

but the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation is a joke

This is odd because from where I am, the BBC is as anti-Brexit as you can get. Without fail they always load their panels with remainers. Just last night for example, they had 4 remainers and one Brexiteer.

I'm sure you have no problems with YouGov, at least I hope you don't:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/02/22/bbc-news-pro-brexit-or-anti-brexit

BBC is pretty high up on the anti-Brexit list. 27% of the population feel it is, whereas only 8% feel it is pro-Brexit

Even more remainers believe the BBC is anti Brexit than remainers who think it isn't.

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

Would you care to explain how they could have taken control of Brexit?

Mogg: Backbench MP, not a member of the cabinet, zero chance of him becoming PM in 2017. Could not affect Government Brexit policy.

Johnson: Wanted to be PM in 2017, but impossible. This is because the PM at that time was selected by the 330 or so Conservative MPs themselves. Could not affect Government Brexit policy.

Farage: Leader of UKIP, but not an MP. Zero influence in Westminster. Could not affect Government Brexit policy.

Again, could you please explain how these 3 individuals had any power, control or ability to control the Government's Brexit policy?

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

Tangerine you really need to research this properly. If you knew....

Please don't dodge what I said.

Nowhere to be seen!? They're on the telly nearly every day.

Mogg, Johnson and Farage are still active politicians (unlike Cameron). They are all still engaged in making Brexit happen.

The UK's Brexit is in a complete mess because these three men who led the Leave campaign then disappeared....

They haven't disappeared though. That's what I am disagreeing with you about.

Especially, Farage. As mentioned before, he's the leader of a new political party that will take part in any new elections. How is that disappearing?

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

And the perpetrators of Brexit (Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg) are nowhere to be seen.

Mogg: Conservative MP, leader of ERG, still supporting Brexit as far as I know.

Joohnson: Still trying to become PM (won't happen though) and supporting Brexit.

Farage: Set up a new poiltical party to take part in the European Election and to make sure Brexit happens.

Nowhere to be seen!? They're on the telly nearly every day.

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

@AlfieNaokes

Here is a link describing the case:

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/the-postponement-of-brexit-is-it-legal/

Here is a link to Robin Tillbrook, the individual who a brought the case against the Government:

http://robintilbrook.blogspot.com/2019/03/english-democrats-bring-case-to-get.html

Could you also provide a list of sources that you would accept that go beyond the Guardian, Independent and BBC, please?

I think it is important not to stay within an echo chamber.

You could also have googled "Article 50 extension court case" yourself.

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

@CrazyJoe

Parliament has voted against holding a second referendum three times within the last two weeks.

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Posted in: Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative See in context

A few people have realised that the EU has already removed a WTO exit as an option for the UK. When the EU offered an Article 50 extension to Theresa May, they offered two extension dates (12 April and 22 May).

In the text provided, they simply could have just changed the date from 29 March to 12 April for the WTO exit option, but they didn't. The last sentence of the text states:

In that event (Parliament rejects the Withdrawal Agreement), the United Kingdom will indicate a way forward before the 12th of April 2019, for consideration by the European Council.

The text makes no mention of the UK leaving the EU with no deal on 12 April.

Simply put, everything has already been decided. It will be extended again.

However, all of this is playing havok with domestic UK law. Ironically, Gina Miller's court case resulted in a demand for an Act of Parliament to set Article 50 in motion. So likewise, although the PM and EU can extend the date all they like, it is illegal for them to do so without the consent of Parliament.

A court case has been brought against the British Government about riding roughshod over UK law. The case was brought forward last Friday and began on Monday. As you can imagine, it's being kept very quiet.

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Posted in: Britain faces calls for unity gov't amid Brexit impasse See in context

A simple video which shows how much politicians who are now advocating a second referendum forget what they themelves said just a few months before.

https://twitter.com/Change_Britain/status/1111538986147827712

"We will respect the result of the referendum, whatever the result."

"If we vote to leave, that's it, we're out!"

"There's no second vote."

"There will be no second referendum."

"The referendum is clear and has to be accepted."

"We're leaving the single market. We're leaving the customs union."

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Posted in: Angry over Brexit delay, 'Leave' supporters march through London See in context

You are fickle. Giving up on the ludicrous Etonian fop at the first betrayal.

I found your comment fascinating.

After the first sign of betrayal, I have always thought it wise to cease trusting someone.

I wouldn't call it fickle. I'd call it reasonable.

JRM had lambasted May's deal numerous times over the last few weeks, then he did a 180 and threw his support behind it in a matter of hours. I think that counts as a pretty big betrayal.

But going further than that, are you against people changing their opinion about something or someone?

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Posted in: Angry over Brexit delay, 'Leave' supporters march through London See in context

An interesting collection of polls:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ

9% of Leavers would mind if a relative married a strong Remainer

37% of Remainers would mind if a relative married a strong Leaver

Having a Remainer or Leaver as the romantic partner of your child:

75% of Leavers willing

53% of Remainers willing

Having a Remainer/Leaver as friend:

80% of Leavers willing

61% of Remainers willing

"Would you feel willing/unwilling to have a Remainer/Leaver as a co-worker?"

79% of Leavers willing

67% of Remainers willing

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Posted in: Angry over Brexit delay, 'Leave' supporters march through London See in context

I lost all respect for JRM two days ago. He said that May's deal was awful and then supported it. I would now like to see the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats consigned to the dustbin.

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Posted in: May offer to quit fails to sway key opponents of her Brexit deal See in context

Britain doesn't belong to anyone, mate.

I'm not going to argue with you. I know you have your own views and you are not likely to change them. I respect that.

However, when you use words like "educate" and "expert" with quotation marks, you just come across as someone with an attitude problem (the excessive exclamation marks don't help either).

You don't have to agree with others, but you have to accept the fact that other people are allowed to have different opinions.

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