taniwha comments

Sabiwabi Not sure by "a third party" that you were actually alluding to North Korea but anyway.

Sabiwabi

The situation existing between Japan and China is tricky. Before the 'financial crises' I would have been inclined to believe that most of the nationalistic rhetoric from both sides was aimed at coalescing internal support for the present political structure; maintaining the political status quo. So long as the global economy was actually working both countries had been bought together in a totally symbiotic relationship based on trade. Now though things the environment right around the globe means that at this point anything could happen, almost anywhere.

Any major power taking pre-emptive action on some relatively new target nation, even the most seemingly minor remote speck of the globe at this point could spark something much bigger.

I think you are right to note that the parallel between Israel testing its 'anti-Iranian rockets' system, and Japan threatening to use its own 'anti-North Korean rocket' system. I do think though that the whole North Korean rocket launch thing was aimed, all but totally at an internal domestic audience inside North Korea, that is, rather than intended as a warning to its neighbors.

Madadverts

There are ivestigations into Israeli war crmes....I've already said I'm defending neither party, and yes, it's tit-for-tat.

What investigations are you talking of? So far as I know there are none. Israel's military police closed internal investigation after only 9 days. The talk of investigations from the international arena are so far at least just talk.

The nation's military advocate, General Brigadier Avichai Mendelblit, shut down the military police’s criminal inquiry. That was Israel's 'official effort' set up to investigate allegations by Israeli soldiers of misconduct by the Israeli Defence Forces and serious violations of the IDF’s rules of engagement during Israel’s attack on Gaza. Mendelblit himself said the soldier's stories amounted to nothing but "hearsay", and therefore... no need to go into any prolonged/real investigation.

Who the hell needs balance when you've an agenda?

Well, as you know, having been reading and posting the board so many years as you have, Taniwha states any personal politics up front. The answer for concerns like those you consistently express is for the world to move on from the zombie capitalism to something truely democratic, rational, and scientific (rather than the present mystic workings of charlatans and pirates). So, no, nothing hidden here pal, apart from the uninteresting personal details kind of stuff :)

The situation in Israel regards the Palestinians brings to mind nothing less than apartheid era South Africa, except of course that the White regime there was somewhat more restrained by comparison. Punishing Hamas for rocket attacks does not justify the kind of butchery we have seen exacted on Gaza, and nothing justifies the systematic repression of an entire people. You don't appear to know the history of modern Israel. Most Palestinians alive today are likely to have members of their family who were actually present in what is today known as Israel when the Kind David hotel blown by Irgun.

"Tit for tat"? Lets see, three weeks of attacks on Gaza killed 1,400 Palestinians. How many Israelis killed by Hamas rockets over the years? I will let someone find the figure, the one that comes to mind is 4.

Surgeons working in hospitals have reported that the IDF's own rules of engagement have little to do with international agreements, because quite apart from 1,400 Palestinian deaths, the majority being women and children, the numbers of people maimed was far greater due to the weaponry used. These injuries were consistent with stories from people on he ground during the attack that white phosphorus, banned internationally as a weapon, and DIME were used in the seriously built up urban zone that is Gaza. DIME is a new weapon, one that explodes with enough force to literally tear bodies apart when it hits them.

The IDV, just prior to the attack were issued with pamphlets quoting extensively from Shlomo Aviner, a hard-line rabbi who compares the Palestinians to the Philistines, the Biblical enemy of the Jews. “When you show mercy to a cruel enemy, you are being cruel to pure and honest soldiers... This is a war on murderers.” He also cites a biblical ban on “surrendering a single millimetre” of Israel."

Lets also leave aside for the moment Israel's full scale air strike against Lebanon last year, and its more recent missile attack against a target in the Sudan, and talk about Iran.

Who better to go to then the Prime minister himself Benjamin Netanyahu who the very day he was sworn in signaled a break with the 'two state solution' regards the Israeli-Palestinian ongoing conflict, but wait up that came right after he threatened to militarily strike Iran.

According to Jonah Goldberg of the Atlantic, Netanyahy directly threatened Iran. The primeminister's military advisers were quoted as saying that Israel could act "within months" and was capable of carrying out the attack with or without Washington's approval. One adviser had this to say: "The problem is not military capability, the problem is whether you have the stomach, the political will, to take action."

There will be no strikes on Israel by Iran. You lot on the radical end of each side need to calm down a bit.

Good sentiments, but unfortunately you are talking about, in the case of Israel, a nation that in less than five years has made how many large scale military strikes upon its immiediate neighbors? and dropped a missile or two on far away neighbors? I can't remember exactly, help me out here.

Not to mention applying the full power of its conventional military on striking on a comparitively defenseless would be state that just happens to constitute one of the most (if not the most) heavily populated urban zones in the entire world. Could also mention here you are talking about a government who during the latter strike have been accused of multiple crimes against humanity by the UN Secretary General amongst several other internationally respected NGOs that have had the opportunity to look at the evidence. Remember too, Israel promised an investigation following reports of war crimes by their own soldiers, and now just 9 days later have closed it down.

Could also mention that you are talking about a country that has just put in place an extremist right wing government, as I mentioned before. That means measurably more extreme than the one that pursued all of the above accomplishments. Just bear witness to what the new FOREIGN AFFAIRS minister has said.

"We are also losing ground every day in public opinion. Does anyone think that concessions and constantly saying “I am prepared to concede,” and using the word “peace” will lead to anything? No, that will just invite pressure, and more and more wars. "Si vis pacem, para bellum" - if you want peace, prepare for war; be strong."

Yeah, that is the words of Israel's incoming foreign affairs minister Avigdor Liberman, right after this: "The claim that what is threatening the world today is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a way of evading reality. The reality is that the problems are coming from the direction of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq."

A strike on Iran by this lot is extremely likely if past behavior is anything to go by. This is the character of the government there. And by the way, the conditions for Israeli working class members of the population have deteriorated rapidly within the state. The manner in which a government deals with its problems without is mirrored by the way it deals with problems within. Dissent in Israel is growing.

Israel may have "got their butts kicked" but their belligerence and role as the US proxy makes them very very dangerous, and liable to kick off a major war in the Middle East.

An attack on Israel by Iran will pull in the US. Any strike on Iranian targets by Israel is likely to result in counter attack by Iran. The government just formed in Israel is of an extreme right wing character, it is not boding well for the future. But, this is precisely the kind of developments at a national level that one might expect as the decay of capitalism at a global level sees it become a lurching and stumbling zombie consuming itself.

Blaze 524 Yes, you made a good point. My points were also good, just irrelevant as reply to your post... ha ha. Game to you.

Hope the typos above don't confuse too much.

Good to see the reactionaries in form inviting the "socialists" to comment. It would be too much to ask for more inventiveness from such no-hope perspectives.

Any leader appearing out the G20 is a proponent of capitalism, and cannot therefore be socialist. They can though pose as 'socialist' as defined by social democrat politic. But to call the leadership of the US and France socialist as posters have done reveals no understanding of what socialism means, let alone capitalism, and clue about the reality of this event that has been called so many names, but lets call just settle for the 'collapse of capitalism' - at all.

This summit can provide no solutions.

One held in London in 1933, attended by more than 1,000 world leaders and financial officials—although not President Franklin D Roosevelt—met for six weeks and then gave up.

Interestingly Roosevelt was taking a holiday on his yacht at the time, and apparently refused to attend the meeting of world leaders in London for that reason. He has been ever after blamed by a good few for America's long plunge into the Great Depression. Roosevelt was though, a clever leader, and the 'New Deal' provided the illusion of better times ahead, that capitalism needed to divert the general public from joining with the very real socialist movement that was building up in the US at that time.

There is no hope of such a 'New Deal' now though. These are far different times. And this gathering '2nd Great Depression' is the result of far worse fundamental conditions then back then.

Blaze524 Your world is almost yesterday.

Not only China, but India, Russia, and Israel have the means to project military might.

The US has military dominance for just as long as it can continue to fund its own military R&D. Everything it has now will be obtained tomorrow by most of those powers. It is a matter of sustaining the dominance by being able to fund it. At the moment, China clearly has more reserves of wealth than does the US and given time will be able to take a technological lead over the US once the point has been reached where the value of the dollar collapses.

All that 'neato' military hardware you talk about, the aircraft carrier etc, can fall into rusting heaps when they can no longer be maintained. It was only a couple of decades ago that the USSR collapsed, and with it began the rapid deterioration of its military hardware. Yesterday Russia, tomorrow the US. So it goes on. You are living in yesterday still.

Seharinokaze

I'd say imperialism is what it is, be it small or big size. The fact that Japan wanted control of access to Manchuria back before World War 2 began may in fact have had more to do with geopolitical concerns than access to minerals in the ground.

Good points about the imperialist intentions of the other nations leading up to that period I think.

Globalism was not introduced by "Anglo-American style management", it is not an attribute solely of Western big business. If you look at some of the points you have already made earlier in your post you can see how globalism has been developing for more than a century.

When Japan moved into Manchuria, followed later by its move into areas of South East Asia and the Pacific, that is also an example of the process of globalization. In this case driven by imperialist interests; that is, a Japanese elite in control of the nation state and served by and acting to serve big business interests (largely itself).

Globalism does seem to have been driven largely by the desire to trade, and that is a fairly universal desire.

Brunobear

That was all a bit of a wish list.

If China and Japan wanted their money back the US could pay both back almost immediately. But China and Japan don't want their money back because the know that the US is the safest place on earth to warehouse such large sums of public money.

How do you propose the US would be able to do that, should the request be made? In US dollars? The Chinese and the Japanese and any other lenders to the US would most definitely not want US dollars back. Think about it a moment. Why would they be calling for immediate payment anyway, if not because they wanted payment before the US dollar nosedived below the ground. So perhaps they would prefer to be paid in Chinese yuan and Japanese yen? After all those currencies aren't much more or less stable than the euro for example. I think most people here would tell you the US hasn't got that much currency in stock ready to release to those countries.

In any event, there is such a thing as nominal dollar value versus real dollar value.

For those of you who fantasize that the US is weakened let me just remind you that the US military is head and shoulders above any other military force in the world.

True, but only for as long as the US has the means to fund such a military force. Once the US economy collapses such a force will pretty much have the means only to administer a military dictatorship within the US just to keep the lid on the local population. The real military is going to then be in those countries who still have the means to fund military R&D, and pay the salaries of the officers.

The US is resource rich, much richer than any other nation or even the EEU.

Totally meaningless statement. What resources are you talking about here? The US has plenty of coal sure. It doesn't have plenty of oil or gas, not in comparison to "any other nation". Sure it has reserves, but they are there largely to ensure a military ability should most of the sources of both oil and gas to the US suddenly cut off the supply.

...it has the intellectual elite of the world at its call.

Yeah, right. Well, where were those "intellectual elite" when the US needed them? Advising the successive Administrations and Wall Street how to plummet the nation into a war in Iraq, and the US as well as the rest of the world into a financial collapse. The rest of those intellectuals were either hiding behind their desks in their ivory towers, or retiring to South America before the storm.

Of course, the political leaders of so called 'developing countries' would say that. At the very least they have to ensure they are seen by their own supporters to be taking an appropriate stand rather than doing nothing.

The truth is though. the so called 'developing countries' have been bled white for decades by the West, particularly the last two. Forced into contracts by institutions like the IMF and the World Bank, that sold them high interest loans and forced them to accept being preyed upon by giant corporations building developments that served Western interests and allowing the 'developing country' to be picked clean of its natural resources, milked of its life blood like a bear in a cage.

But the other unpleasant truth is that most of those 'developing countries' are led by governments made up a-typical politicians who are at best 'there-for-themselves' cowardly politicians, and at worst unscrupulous and corrupt. Their like have been cultivated by the West since their countries were set up (directly or indirectly by the West) as nation states. Even while Brazil's latest incarnation of one of those a-type politicians actually states the truth, ultimately they want nothing more than a slice of the pie for themselves. There is no interest in pursuing a fundamental change to the system that would ensure that such catastrophic event taking place again would be unlikely, not only for their countries but for the world as a whole.

Let's be really honest here. The ingenuity and drive of the Japanese is legendary. That's no understatement.

However, two points to consider here.

Imperialism enabled Japan to become a war machine early on last century. Snatching resources from its neighboring countries set up Japan as nation to rival the West in the same game. The reason that Japan was able to become first of all powerful enough to conquer its neighbors was because it was an imperialist power to begin with. That meant it was able to build up its resources in successive stages, to the point its ability to manufacture armaments rivaled even the US (at the early stages).

America, the world's sole most powerful economy after WW2 was the reason Japan became a massive economic marvel. The reason Japan became the world's 2nd biggest economy was because America after WW2 chose to plunge its resources into the country to harness Japan's ingenuity and drive, and already well organized industrial machine into an advanced capitalist economy.

BTW. of course, as the process of globalization took inevitable effect, the US discovered the advanced capitalist nation states it had created would have minds of their own, and undermine the whole program. That's the contradiction inherent in the capitalist system for you.

I'm bullish on Japan too, but not based on the illusionary ideals, half truths, and outright, delusions posted in this article.

superb technology and a proven track record of applying technology to bring innovation and better products to global consumers and producers.

The world's consumers are awash with technological appliances and electronic toys of all kinds. It isn't so much a matter of over supply, the demand simply isn't there. There are not enough people in the world who have the excess dollars/yuan etc, to use for much else other than for paying for a roof over their head, food, and really the bare essentials. Its going to take far longer than a decade to see a mass of consumers with cash to spare save Japan once more through exporting that kind of product!

steel is now being sources from lower cost Korea and the entire supply chain and merchandising chain is being radically restructured.

Steel? Before steel manufacturing comes the mineral extraction from the ground, and at this point the mining industry throughout the world aren't doing a lot of mining. It just financially is not worth their while, that's if they can raise the funds to begin with.

But anyway, on the subject of commodities, notice the 'analyst' above does not mention oil! Oil is thought to have peaked in terms of the available amount able to be extracted without having to cost more in energy resources and money to extract than able to be profited from. The sheer cost of oil once demand increases again is going to make production costs soar at all levels. Just the cost of transportation alone is going to hugely increase. Let's consider for one moment what the cost of oil will be once the dollar crashes. Will the yen hold up under current conditions? Don't think so. Remember JAPAN HAS NO OIL RESOURCES OF ITS OWN.

Japanese politics is much better than its reputation... But let’s not forget that Japan is a functioning democracy

Japan's politics is a mess. Anyone who has written about it knows it. And as for the 'functioning democracy', what other democracy is Jesper comparing Japan's with exactly? Its really a risky statement to make at this point in time, when democracies all over the world are looking decidedly shaky. Japan's coming election looks to be a decided mess. Recent polls have already shown that more than 50% of the public have no faith in the leadership in either the LDP or the Democratic Party, particularly since the most recent accusations of corruption leveled at both leaderships.

Jesper is correct at least once. Japan does indeed have one powerful resource, and that is its people.

Wouldn't that also be true of the Chinese and Tibet? Would the Chinese prefer to be strong enough to assert sovereignty through military conquest rather than dilly dallying with territorial claims? You betcha.

Hang on. You have stated above that the US does not have any disputed claims. Wrong. They do. I named two of them.

Back to Betzee, and in reply to your above question. What the heck does it matter if China also historically prefers "military conquest to..." Name me one imperialist power that hasn't! For that matter name me one nation, anywhere that historically has not used military power as a prefered means to sorting out a territorial claim.

The big decider is always who holds the greatest amount of power AND the resources to outlast their adversary. Meantime people die. The problem here is that this is supposed to be an era of some sophistication when the political, economic, and social system in place has been developed to the point it can benefit us all. Clearly, this is completely a delusion at best. Here we have an entire globe-ful of nations, SUCH as China, and America, none of which can decouple themselves from the global system in place. Capitalism has at this point reached a zenith in terms of systematic collapse. That is why the US and China, two of the most powerful economies in the world turn toward their militaries. China in Tibet, and the US just about everywhere else.

taniwha - Now you are spinning ideological banter with now no substance while I on the other hand am going off of facts over the last 50 years or so. You contradict yourself when you wrote

Actually, where do you get your facts from? If you look up this thread you will find I have posted a few sources. So far as the "spinning" goes it looks like you are doing that.

The reality of your own ideology is staring you down every time you go look at a stock indices. This whole thread is based on the very outcome of ideological banter spun for the past three decades. Consider calls by Milton Friedman ideologues for more an even more free 'free market', if that is possible. Consider they are still urging that right now, even critics of Obama and his administration's bailouts urge, no shriek for the powers that be to free up the almighty 'free market'. If you want evidence of alternatives decrying the bailout strategy, and urging Washington to simply let Wall Street sink or swim, just go watch the Peter Schiff channel on youtube to see what I mean.

Anyway, who do you suggest are the voices of sanity, a step apart from 'ideological banter', would that include Allen Greenspan? Paul Krugman? Wait up, no need to go to those EXTREMES... No, not at all, because you have Timothy Geithner, Ben Bernanke, and Henry Paulson to extoll the virtues of where the free market will take us AFTER the resurrection of American capitalism. And yes, its American capitalism they mean to restore, above and before any other localized variant.

To me you are saying that we all need each other to see our way out of this mess yet if China deems it so can bring by decoupling with the U.S. devastation to the dollar and essentially bring the U.S. economy with it. Am I reading correctly?

No. You are 'reading' like there is a disconnect in your cognitive zones, like you depend on JT to supply the 'facts'. Here's a shock for you then - and I presume you haven't bothered to read my post past the bits you have quoted here - China wants the US to get a handle on the situation. China knows there can be no decoupling without destroying their own economy. China is considering that maybe a bit of local destruction now is worth a lot less in the future. It is a gamble with no wins but they are looking at degrees of catastrophic loss! China's thoughts are in fact no different to the attitude of many countries who will meet with the US at the G20 in London. I've already mentioned some of those above.

BTW, my day is going just fine thank you. I am getting hungry though! I will go stand in line for my daily rations soon ;)

Hope the rations were worth the wait.

While you acknowledge "the extreme times", I would reflect on the "we" somewhat. Extreme times are just everyday reality for many many countries in the world, and have been for quite a while.

[And here I am not referring to, say, infamously unstable areas such as the are found in parts of South America, Asia, the Middle East, and on the African continent (and that by no means covers the lot), AND also completely disregarding the reasons most of these areas are unstable - these are the nations begotten by the war victors and as such created to serve the needs of the west, not the real inhabitants, AND many of them still bear the stamp of a colonialized past]

You know if China goes the same way as Japan, as you put it, "sliding down the same slope", then the US goes too. You are continuing to avoid the obvious. Nations cannot de-couple one from the other. The US economic marvel is gone, finished.

The struggle to keep the US economy afloat depends entirely on the will of China and actually India and Japan to continue to hold US financial assets. That's it. That's all there is. There is NO intrinsic value to the US dollar. Its real value expired when it was taken off a gold standard. That was the Bretton Woods System, now defunct. That was a political decision taken by the Nixon administration because since the US had created all those new markets following world war 2, and they were doing pretty well, more dollars were needed than they had the gold to value them by. The US dollar has been falling in real value as measurable by gold at least, for decades! The US is bankrupt. I have no idea where you get your seemingly unassailable faith in the US dollar from. It seems to me more like blind adherrence to a doctrine derived from a belief in the indomitability of the US itself.

Have you ever actually reflected on the fact that the capitalist system of social and economic organization is just that? A system! And as such, it like any system natural or man made can and will get sick, and maybe to the point where it cannot be revived.

When a system that no longer works is continued with, the entire machine/body dies. That is all a bit perfunctory, but make no mistake, dictatorship in the US is just around the corner. It will be the only way to contain the chaos that ensues when society breaks down along with an economic collapse. The false expectations of so many in people in the West, delivered by capitalist ideology, can be paralleled with the continuing belief by Americans in 'the American Dream'. People are not going to like finding themselves in the middle of a depression, one with no way out. The ruling elites will turn to war, and that, unfortunately will be where we are all going to be heading unless the world can de-couple itself from the zombie that capitalism has now become.

That was a bit of a rave. But hey, I'm having a great day thanks. Hope yours is too.

Frying Monkey

No I think you misunderstood what I was saying or I didn't word it correctly. Yes, nations are bailing out their financial industries right and left as of late. This is a completely different animal than changing the global currency.

Okay, possibly I misunderstood you. But then, you are not really making a lot of sense. Your view looks to be distinctly narrow. Point of fact, there are only a few "nations...bailing out their financial industries." Many, particularly those in Europe are refusing to, and many powerful nations, such as England for example, are now thinking twice about continuing to sink money into the failed financial sector. France is another recent example! In fact, the most recent news carried by the BBC this morning asserts the coming G20 in London looks set for conflict and non-resolution.

Like it or not the U.S. Dollar has been the most stable currency along with the U.S. being the most stable government in the world for decades, business seems to like that in a currency.

How can the US dollar be "the most stable currency" when it is on life support?! The only way the US dollar is able to remain afloat is for the status quo of foreign currencies to continue to inject capital into the US economy. That goes for the US government by default. When the dollar collapses so to will any semblance of democracy in the US. The result of chaos will be the installation of a military dictatorship in the US. Would you call that a stable government? Because that is what is on the horizon.

Here's the reality I think your very 1960'w retro-view is missing, one you can guarantee that China and a host of other nations, less financially able, are not able to lose sight of.

This series of massive bank bailouts in the US is funded through the issuance of debt, flooding world markets with hundreds of billions in US Treasuries. The creation of all of that massive debt is being justified within the US by the illusion that the unique position of the dollar can be maintained as the world reserve currency. This is a position it has held since the end of the Second World War. Yes, and you are correct in suggesting business has liked the dollar, but is only because of its central importance in world trade and financial transactions, that there has been this continuous demand in world markets for dollar-denominated assets. But here's another fact, nothing lasts forever.

What is happening is this. The American ruling class is capitalizing on the still privileged position of the US dollar. They are intent on funding these bailouts through the sale of massive volumes of debt on world markets, sucking up available financing and making it more difficult and expensive for other countries to get funding for their own programs.

This is the bind that China is facing. And of course, so is the rest of the world. Many of the posters above taking Junior High style pot shots at China would not be ready to admit the truth, that the US is doing precisely what it has preached for decades to other nations that have faced economically implosion not to do.

I must say though you do write nice :)

Hey, thanks for the compliment. I'm only here to please.

Joe

could you imagine how far you could get with a Yaun?

Here's a thought, when the Chinese economy does finally succumb to the financial crises and the national books spin into debt (and it looks kind of inevitable) and so Chinese investors in US financial assets decide they no longer are able to support the US dollar... will it matter?

Sharky1

...just make US $$$ void and switch to the new currency. China would really like that.

Sure, China might like that. But what it would like most of all is for the world economy to stabalize. And surprise, China is not alone on wanting that to happen.

Although this article is focused on China and its hoped for creation of a domestic economic machine that will be able to pull the world's financial system from its terminal dive, alternatives to the US dollar as the world currency is a topic being discussed at high levels elsewhere other than in China.

Just last week, Reuters reported that a source within the Russian government told it that Russia, China, Brazil, and India have secretly discussed moving from the dollar reserve. Russia possesses the world's third-largest store of foreign reserves, about half of which are in dollars.

The Reuters report had this to say. "They [China] did not formally put forward their position for the G20 summit [of financial ministers earlier this month] but unofficially they had distributed their paper regarding the same ideas [the need for the new currency]." The source added that the more-developed nations were "allergic" to the idea, said the source.

Here's what you should keep in mind. China is interested in staying afloat. The Chinese government is interested in continuing its tenuous undertaking with the Chinese people, that the people obey the wishes of the Chinese government so long as the Chinese economy continue to develops and is able to reward all good capitalists, which translates to jobs, food, shelter, to the rest of the population. So long as that continues there will be no further Tiananmen Square protests of the kind that took place in 1989. So, what China has wanted is that the US continue to prop up the value of the US Treasury notes.

But even while the Fed continues to print off skeedadles of dollar bills to prop up those Treasury bills it also has the effect of causing the value of the US dollar potentially to fall, and with it so does China's holdings in the US.

What you have going on here is China the MAIN investor doing no more than any investor would when they think their investment is being badly managed. They make noise!

Here's what Qu Hongbin, chief China economist for HSBC, told the Financial Times in reference to Zhou's comments the other day, "This is a clear sign that China, as the largest holder of US dollar financial assets, is concerned about the potential inflationary risk of the US Federal Reserve printing money."

China has the tiger by the tail and wants to let go. Can you blame it!

Frying Monkey.

Again imagine the COST! Beijing’s central bank governor’s idea = FAIL

You must have missed the overall scenerio here. The world financial system has already failed. Any measure to fix it is going to cost. So far the cost to Western nations to of the decision to bail out failed banks has been ginormous. Western nations, most of them, already had their national balance sheets deep in the red.

China on the other hand has been in the black. Not for long maybe. But if any one nation is able to do any rescuing of the capitalist system it is going to be China, and India. In fact, that is what China has been doing, and only because it has the financial tiger by the tail.

The president also pointed to the current strength of American money. “The reason the dollar is strong right now is because investors consider the United States the strongest economy in the world with the most stable political system in the world.”

Sounds an AWFUL lot like the rhetoric favored by the last administration. The strategy here is as it has been particularly in the past 8 years of the Bush a, tell the lie often enough and everyone will begin to believe it is true.

Let's not call it a lie. Let's be generous and call it wanton obfuscation, from the mouth of the president no less. Point of fact, the investors that actually do count are now being heard to publicly express their doubt that "the US is the strongest economy in the world."

But it isn't just the president and his speech writers (the Whitehouse et al), it is the mainstream press too. Come on now. Just look at this article that leads this thread for starters! Okay one hesitates to call this article an example of something written by the mainstream press, but the fact remains it too is total obfuscation.

The world economic crisis shows the “inherent vulnerabilities and systemic risks in the existing international monetary system,” Gov Zhou Xiaochuan said in an essay released by the bank. He recommended creating a currency made up a basket of global currencies and controlled by the International Monetary Fund and said it would help “to achieve the objective of safeguarding global economic and financial stability. Zhou did not mention the dollar by name.”

Actually Zhou did EVERYTHING BUT mention the dollar by name.

This is what Zhou also said. Not mentioned by the article above. "The price [of maintaining the current regime] is becoming increasingly high, not only for the users, but also for the issuers of the reserve currencies..." He continued, "The frequency and increasing intensity of financial crises following the collapse of the Bretton Woods system suggests the costs of such a system [the dollar reserve regime] to the world may have exceeded its benefits."

This clear warning shot fired by the head of the Chinese central bank just this Monday past, was quickly followed on Tuesday, by a spokesperson from the government-backed Chinese Academy of Social Sciences Li Xiangyang, calling the Fed's new policy of purchasing US Treasuries "irresponsible." Xiangyang said that China would likely ask for "specific measures" on the part of the US to ensure the value of Chinese holdings.

Could the message from China be anymore explicit? Could the warning be any clearer?

By the way, Zhou also called on the US to "maintain its good credit, to honor its promises and to guarantee the safety of China's assets."

Timorborder

Crushing debt? If politicians in America truly cared

Good post. Agree.

And I feel strangely compelled to add, that the "something" that "will give have to give" is taking place right now.

The financial and social disaster we are now undergoing will be much clearer in retrospect as it is an ongoing change. But by most economic indicators this is a depression, and not as politicians would have you believe, a recession. And what is most significantly different about this depression compared to the last is that it is world-wide, with only a very few countries that are as yet relatively unaffected, at least not directly at this point. I'm talking here about countries like Indonesia that have very large populations (i.e. equalling large domestic market), and manufacturing industries focused on mostly primary goods consumed mostly locally.

The globally economy ties the world together. When the financial system in America collapses completely it will cause the collapse of the entire global financial system. Which means if follow where the arrows point, that America /the world will have no way to reconstruct a functioning financial system by any means acceptable to humanity.

The historical proven solution has been for major powers to redivide the pie, i.e. by military means. WW2, by the way, was the main reason Western nations were able to end the Great Depression, and that (putting it far too simply I know) was the means by which the US became the superpower, the apex of global capitalism.

Seriously, what happens when people are idle and bored is that quite often they abuse substances. Never mind when people are depressed. One thing cannabis can do for you is calm the nerves and numb the pain, alcohol will do the same, but that's not banned. Take too much cannabis and hallucinations set in, plenty of prescription medicines in excessive quantities will do the same, and a lot in excessive quantities will likely kill you. Cannabis won't kill you, at least not unless you accidently burn your house down while stoned.

So why ban it? Sure, there are well documented negative outcomes from excessive use, and long term cannabis use. But there is the same recorded evidence that tells us excessive use, and long term indulgance in fast foods will also prove extremely detrimental to ones health.

No, the real reason is political. Cannabis and cannabis users together amount to a political football that's been kicked around since at least the 1940's. The ban came a decade or so later. The banning of cannabis use hasn't been around too long in the West. For politicians the existence of laws against illicit drugs is a pure gift. Remember if you will, there was not so long ago The War Against Drugs. It was never won, but boy did politicians make careers out of it. Prisons were built, paramilitaries formed, and as a result and not surprisingly really, entire economies have been built thanks to The War Against Drugs.

In this case, in Japan, the media walks hand in hand with the politicians who legislate these inane laws. But it is with a purpose. In tough economic times politicians turn to crime to take the focus away from themselves and their profit making on the backs of the peoples' misery. If you can't find an available group of criminals (that are not politically 'involved) then create one. This is what is going on here, now.

she voted for the wrong President because this on is trying to consider ALL sides even if the outcome will failt he U.S

Talk about blind adoration. If "ALL sides" are being considered, they sure are not being considered equally. You just need to follow the money trail and see where that ends up. Sure, supposedly it is an investment in the future where the economy is supposed to come right way up again, and everyone is dancing in the streets on their way to employment and owning their own homes once more. But just look at the facts.

The most glaring one is this. The very same people that got us to where we are today are being put in charge of where we are going to be tomorrow! Do you realize that the kind of economic measures this administration is prescribing to the US to right the economy are the very same ones that America lectured the rest of the world against taking over the past 40 years when countries, like Argentina, for one glaring example, was looking for loans to get itself at of its own massive recession?

What makes this president anymore convincing than any of the last 16 up to and including President Woodrow Wilson? Everyone of those administrations put in place economic policies that led up until this very moment. Does anyone really think the saviour has arrived in the Whitehouse?

If he has, and President Obama is he, than he is an anomaly.

By the way, keep in mind here quite apart from the issue of what the bonus payouts to CEOS are supposed to be actually awarding them for, there is the underlying issue that the money is being supplied by the American people from their tax, i.e. the bailouts the Obama administration continues to push through. These bailouts are never ending. They are getting bigger as well. Interesting to compare what is going on now with what happened during the last great depression. And I am taking it for granted this is a depression at this point in time.

While President Obama throws money to the Corporations (the real interests he and the Democrats and Republicans serve, by the way) President Roosevelt threw money into ginormous public work schemes to kick the economy back to life. But throwing money into the capitalist system that is in a state of collapse is akin to force feeding alcohol to an alcoholic in the blind hope that will get them back on their feet.

Roosevelt's New Deal failed to extract America from the dire economic downturn it was in during the 1930's. The only thing that got America out of that depression was a rapid and massive ramping up of production for the war effort. In a word, World War 2. It was America's entrance into World War 2 and its incredibly massive industrial capability that saw it wear down its enemies and finally ensure the allied victory.

Of course, these days a World War would not last as long and it is highly doubtful there would be a world left that would be worth dividing up amongst the victors. Still, it seems this is the hope of those elites that continue to fund the War on Terror. That they can benefit financially from these conflicts without them turning into conflagrations that consume America and its allies. That is a very dangerous game.

Obama is staunchly in favor of the War on Terror, and continues to play for the larger goals set down during the Bush administration's time in office. This financial crises is nothing but an appetizer to what is to come. History tends to follow the same general routes. The players may appear to change but the forces behind them, if you look closely, remain largely the same.

The anger Obama demonstrates over the declaration by AIG that it will honor its contractual obligations to pay bonuses, is Obama's own obligatory act, the one he must be seen to perform. The illusion must be maintained. If you want to know who is really benefiting from all of this, I mean the truth behind all of this, look to the actions behind the words and gestures. Look to the money trail. Where does the money really go?

The outlook for the world remains grim, so long as people fail to see what is really happening. The only people that actually KNOW the truth, are those that benefit most from the policies of the Obama administration, and most likely also those that have suffered most directly as a result, i.e. those who have lost their jobs and suffered foreclosures on the home and property.

It seems that nothing makes a Democrat senator more angry than being exposed. As in, the emperor and his entourage have no clothes.

The truth is out, the Democratic political party represents nothing less than the most fraudulent and criminal aspects of Wall Street. How to hide that now? Never mind. The answer lies in the well trained media.

What tricks of eloquence we will see in the hours and days ahead. But really, how long before the same brutal reality that is storming through the front door of so many homes, foreclosure notice in hand, overwhelms the big fib. The two party political fraud is now bust wide open, it just remains for the majority to actually see it.

smithinjapan taniwha: "Here's another interesting bit of information in no small way related to the rest. The bailout plan that has served AIG so well was put together by Obama's treasury secretary, Henry Paulson, the former Goldman Sachs chairman!" Quick question... who brought in Paulson? Hint: it was the guy before Obama, and the guy who brought on this crisis. Thus your entire argument goes down in flames.

Well, if you don't bother reading the post you are not going to get the argument, are you? I described Obama as the cheerleader for the very same team that gave us this financial crises. The mega-wealthy who are bent on maintaining their grip on their ability to make increasing profits and through that their power. Inotherwords, Obama represents the very same interests as did his predecessor, President George W Bush and for that matter President Bill Clinton, all of them, all the way back, at least as far back as Roosevelt.

It is interesting to compare what Obama is doing with what Roosevelt did, many columnists are doing that now, particularly as the Recession begins to conform much closer to THAT depression. However, now the economic fundamentals are such that this cannot be fruitfully compared to the Great Depression. Why? Because those fundamentals have been completely laid waste to by the policies enacted over decades of Washington administrations. So forget George Bush junior. GW was nothing more and nothing less than a product of the system, The same system that has given us B. Obama. Although, it does seem that Obama, in terms of eloquence, poise, and obvious intellect, is far preferable as a leader to George Bush junior.

The whole point of my argument is this. Obama represents the most fraudulent and criminal aspects of Wall Street, that is those interests that got the world into this SEEMINGLY sudden slow train crash - that is the inevitable depression the entire globe is descending into. As such, it is Obama's first job to ensure that the illusion of democracy/ governance for the people remains in place WHILE the real thin layer of America's most wealthy continue their profit making, AND set in place the policies and structures that will ensure the continuity of their positions of power/their class. That is it. That is all their is to Obama that is relevant to the population at large at this moment.

Obama does angry with a smile. But how else can he play this. He is after all the cheerleader for the very same team that gave us this financial crises. The mega-wealthy who are bent on maintaining their grip on their ability to make increasing profits and through that their power.

Obama's ride as the messiah that will bring an end to the financial crises and show us the way back to economic recovery has been immensely successful. But it can't continue for long. Pretty soon the reality of who and what he really represents will become unmistakable most.

Obama and the team (I mean those he represents) must be feeling more than a little fearful of what might result from this blow up over bonuses. AIG is anything but a one off. It is the norm! There have been recently announced the huge bonus payouts to CEOs by Citigroup ($10.82 mill), America Corp ($9.96 mill), and in both cases following double digit billion dollar bailouts paid by the US taxpayers. You just have to know this is only what gets out into the news! There will have been many more such payouts.

What is happening is a massive injection of wealth - from Americans, the working class predominantly - to the already fantastically wealthy. This is a transfer of wealth away from those who most need it.

If that doesn't startle you then here's something for you to chew on. On Sunday AIG released a long list of payouts it made with the taxpayers' money. The WSJ calculated that ""roughly two-thirds" of the nearly $180 billion in government aid AIG received has been transferred to its trading partners, most of them banks and investment companies. At the top of the list was Goldman Sachs, getting $12.9 billion. AIG essentially paid these firms 100 percent on irresponsible investments."

Here's another interesting bit of information in no small way related to the rest. The bailout plan that has served AIG so well was put together by Obama's treasury secretary, Henry Paulson, the former Goldman Sachs chairman! He also had the help of NY Fed reserve bank president Timothy Geithner. The bonuses have been defended by one Edward Liddy, formerly of Goldman Sachs board of directors who was actually installed as the CEP of AIG by...the government. [source of above quote --- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/mar2009/pers-m17.shtml]

So, yeah. You could imagine how this story hitting the front pages of Joe and Jane America's newspaper might really make Obama annoyed. He's doing a good job looking annoyed. He has to.