Here comes the third act of this story. We'll see how far each side is willing to go. Fingers crossed for safety.
8 ( +11 / -3 )
More anti-China hysteria.
I've been discussing it quite reasonably. If you'd like to see hysteria, take a look at the comments at the very top of this comment section, full of words in all-caps and exclamation points.
Are you for real? Were do you get "beaten to death"?
I said many people allege that someone was beaten to death, not that I I know it to be true. Where do I get it from? I get it from the shrine that Hong Kongers have built and maintained (despite being destroyed by the HK police several times) outside Prince Edward MTR station ever since Aug. 31. I get it from the multiple sit-ins that occurred at the station, demanding for the CCTV footage to be released (which it wasn't). I get it from the multiple people who posed the question to C.E. Lam at her "dialogue" event a week ago or so.
Again - I have no idea whether it happened it not. If you read my previous post, my point was not to claim that these things happened. My point was to fill in missing information in the story, which is to explain why the protestors have targeted the MTR. Accept their reasons or not, it doesn't matter. I'm simply explaining their rationale, and that the target wasn't random.
4 ( +5 / -1 )
"Increasingly violent demonstrations that have roiled the city for four months"?
What! These were previously described as "PEACEFUL" protests, now they are "increasingly violent...over four months". ...No, these are PEACEFUL protests.
Let me explain to you how time works. You see, something can start in one way, and slowly change in another direction as time moves forward. Saying "The weather is getting increasingly cooler" can co-exist with "The temperature was 38 degrees several months ago." It's a remarkable thing, if you think about it.
3 ( +4 / -1 )
protesters torched businesses and metro stations
Without stating the reason why, this article makes it sound like the protestors are committing random, senseless acts of violence.
The Hong Kong MTR has very clearly and very firmly set themselves as allies of the HK police and government. They have sporadically closed stations to prevent protestors from getting home from rallies on the opposite side of the city. They have allowed the police to use MTR stations as satellite police offices during confrontations, and have allowed police officers to use subways tactically, trapping protestors on platforms while trains arrive full of police who have initiated violence against them. Also, and perhaps most importantly, are the events of Aug. 31 - a police attack with over-the-top violence that many people believe resulted in one or more people being beaten to death by the police. There is CCTV footage of the events, that the MTR has refused to show - which intensifies the belief that they have something very grave to hide. Numerous demands for the release of the CCTV footage have gone ignored.
For those reasons, the MTR has become a popular target for the protestors.
5 ( +8 / -3 )
The student was shot in the right shoulder.
Zichi has apparently come across some secret information that is the opposite of what seemingly every source on earth is reporting.
Man not boy.
He is a high school student. Therefore I shall refer to him as a "schoolman" instead of "schoolboy." Thank you for your contribution to the conversation.
2 ( +4 / -2 )
Try to misdirect the topic of my post all you like. The point still stands that the HK Police are lying and spreading propaganda in order to make themselves appear more righteous. I see that their efforts succeeded with at least one person.
this was televised by CNN and commented on by the reporter.
Oh, well that's good evidence. But it's also a little strange, because here's what you posted yesterday in another HK-related article:
CNN are now making false, doctored TV coverage.
So wait - are we supposed to believe CNN? Or are they making false, doctored TV coverage? I'm confused. So are you, apparently. Your principles seem to hold up only as long as they suit your purpose.
5 ( +8 / -3 )
Re: my post above - I just realized something interesting. In the article itself, both the title and the second paragraph refer to the boy as being shot "in the left shoulder." However, the link to the article says "shot in the chest." Makes me wonder if the original version of the article told the truth, and then the Propaganda Police came demanding that they change it. And they did...but forgot to update the URL. Curious.
6 ( +8 / -2 )
There's a strange omission in this article. Did anyone notice it? Isn't it standard to explain where someone got shot? There's a reason for this omission.
If the HK Police are so confident that their man acted "correctly and appropriately," then why did they feel the need to lie about what happened in order to make the officer sound more humane? The HK Police announced in the press conference that the officer had shot the protester in the "left shoulder," which was repeated by the media. One example is here:
However, that is not the truth. He was shot in the chest, 10cm from the heart. If you watch the video, you can see it plainly. Photos on all news sites show it clearly as well.
However, "shot in the chest from point-blank range" sounds bad, especially when we're talking about an 18-year-old schoolboy. So, the CCP propaganda machine had to swoop in and change the story to make it sound as if the police were professionally and reasonably acting out of self defense.
But police defended the shooting as “reasonable and lawful”
I'm not defending someone who attacked a police officer, if that's how it in fact happened. People need to be better and smarter than that. But if that is what happened...then why lie?
8 ( +11 / -3 )
My understanding is that this video was filmed by a NY Times journalist who was there - it's not taken from someone else's raw video. And while I agree with you that neutral sources are needed, do they exist? You claim that an American source is unreliable, presumably due to the U.S.'s relationship with China. Doesn't every nation have a relationship of some sort with China? As I mentioned in my above post, it's easy to find dots to connect in order to discredit absolutely any source on earth if you were so inclined. That doesn't mean that we should accept anything we hear, by the way. But I think if anyone is to have a meaningful conversation about the news, we're going to have to allow that not all news can be fake news.
8 ( +8 / -0 )
Also, if anyone would like to see the video of the shooting incident, here is a link to it with some nice analysis.
6 ( +7 / -1 )
I suppose CNN are now making false, doctored TV coverage.
Re-look at the TV coverage.
The TV coverage shows a different picture.
The logic of your rhetoric is poor. When you urge others to look at TV, I suppose you're referring to the CCP's state-sponsored TV programming. When others talk about TV, you're calling them out as false and doctored. I say yours is propaganda. You say mine is propaganda. That's the type of logic that will run a conversation into the ground, and won't advance for anyone.
Pure fantasy on your part. What evidence do you have?
Amnesty International is a human rights watchdog NGO. Of course, they're not run by the Chinese government, so I'll wait patiently for you to label them fake or corrupt.
I suppose you've spoken to those in "San Uk Ling
I suppose you have regular luncheons with President Xi and C.E. Lam, so you know everything. Your methods of trying to discredit information that you dislike are repetitive and unproductive. The facts are that dozens of people have spoken out about the abuse and torture, many exited with severe injuries including several who were hospitalized (and the HK police claimed that it happened "during the arrest"), we have several HK lawyers publicly accusing the police of deterring them to legally contact their clients, we have police denials to HK justices of the peace and other lawmakers who requested to tour the facility to inspect for human rights violations, and we have a facility that very conveniently has no video cameras. So no - I personally have no concrete evidence of what happened, which is exactly equal to the amount of evidence you have that nothing happened. The best we can do is base our judgments off of the quality and quantity of reporters presenting the story. So if you'd like to play the "Yeah, but did you talk to them yourself??" game, I suggest you find some schoolchildren (who haven't yet been shot by the HK police).
Here are some links if you'd like, but again, I'm sure that non-CCP-sponsored content won't meet your requirements.
9 ( +10 / -1 )
As usual, firstname.lastname@example.org has leapt to a lengthy defense of pro-CCP propaganda a few mere minutes after this article was posted. Curious indeed.
Where rlperez is correct is that the protests (not riots) have become increasingly aggressive, destructive, and violent, and I will acknowledge that it is a very sad development. However, although the amount has unfortunately increased, the starting point was impressively low. The lack of any sort of aggression among millions of protesters for months and months shows the truly peaceful and intelligent methods favored by the vast majority of the crowd. The fact that a few select people will lose their cool in these ultra-stressful situations is unavoidable. But at least they didn't lose their cool by shooting any police officers at point-blank range, when the atrocities committed by the police would certainly push most people beyond that line.
email@example.com: "a gasoline bomb landed in the middle of the group of officers in an explosion of flames."
How about the HK police routinely tear-gassing the first aid personnel or journalists standing on an overpass, away from any of the action? A gasoline bomb is certainly much more dangerous, but at least the police have training and protective gear.
"Video that spread quickly on social media appeared to show the officer opening fire as the masked teenager came at him with a metal rod, striking the officer's shooting arm."
Perhaps you're counting on the posters here having not seen that video, but I have - videos from multiple angles - and that's not at all what happened.
So the officer should have allowed himself to be brutally assaulted and injured or maybe killed ?
Eliminating the very, very, very slim chance of being killed by a child by actually firing a live bullet into a human being's chest from point-blank range is not an appropriate response by someone who is supposed to be representing the rule of law. Do HK police offers have no training in dealing with violence? De-escalation methods? Self-protection methods? If you're saying that the officer had no other choice, then you are truly insulting the abilities and training of the HK police force.
These are RIOTERS and should be treated as such
There are certainly a few rioters among the masses, there's no denying that. The vast majority of the group are not. You are generalizing an enormous group by the actions of a few.
from attacking police officers, including 25 who were injured, to...
You've truly lost touch with reality if you think you're going to win any supporters with comments like this. The HK police force are arresting bystanders at random, maliciously beating people on the street who are already handcuffed and defenseless, torturing them while in custody (perhaps at San Uk Ling) (per Amnesty), molesting them, and you're worried about the protestors attacking the police? You think 25 injured are a lot? Unbelievable.
10 ( +11 / -1 )
been renamed to the “Let’s Cheer on the Performing Members with the Other Members” package
Now THAT'S a catchy name
8 ( +10 / -2 )
This is curious. They requested that he retire, but apparently aren't willing to kick him out. In my experience, asking someone to quit (retire) has had the subtext of "We're going to kick you out if you don't, but quitting will allow you to preserve some dignity." Perhaps there's some contractual/legal reason they can't boot him out?
Takanofuji struck his attendant and jonidan wrestler once because he bathed before him
I was involved in a number of dust-ups in my day, but this particular issue was never one of the causes.
0 ( +0 / -0 )
Seeing how you're framing the discussion, I'll be backing off the conversation, although certainly not the claim. If you'd like to interpret the small number of crazies who get put on your TV or newsfeed in order to drum up ratings as representative of how many millions of people actually act and think, then I don't think there's any point in spending more time on this one.
Have an excellent evening and weekend nonetheless!
3 ( +6 / -3 )
There are 535 "lawmakers" in the US Congress. You've identified 3 individuals. Does that not constitute "a tiny minority fringe" in your concept of statistics? I'm sure we could find an equal number of people acting crazily in any political party (or among any interest group, since we're discussing the climate issue), in any country.
By the way, a link showing how these views are limited to a tiny minority would be useful. It’s just that I’ve seen otherwise.
So you'd like me to provide a link, but conclusions based on your own personal observations are sufficient?
1 ( +5 / -4 )
The US right wing in notorious for crazed anti-science crackpottery. From nut jobs believing in a...
Don't be so US-centric. This is not a discussion of American politics. And regardless what country either of us are from, you're continuing to make gross generalizations of an extremely large group of people based on a tiny minority fringe. I have no idea how many millions and millions of people are included in the "US right wing," but they certainly make up a nice bell curve dominated by normal human beings, with a small group of crazies on the edges. Like any large group. The world doesn't negatively judge the entire UK because of Coldplay. Don't judge half of the United States because of the lunatics they dig up and put on political interview shows or Twitter. Less bigotry is what I'm requesting.
Back to the issue at hand.
Yeah, I am very concerned about how our planet will be, but not because of CO2 or climate...Yes, I am a scientist
I'd be interested in hearing more about this.
-2 ( +3 / -5 )
There needs to be a middle ground between...
Why? That requires thinking. Much easier to lump all liberals together as a particular type of idiot, and all conservatives together as a slightly different type of idiot.
The ongoing battle between the US right and science continues.
3 ( +5 / -2 )
I think one of the main issues that's causing the eye-rolling here among the commenters is the existence of this article. Articles hitting the global news wires feel "important." So the subtext is that these kids skipping school to make a point is important. Hence the mockery - "This isn't important." "They should do something more substantial if they want to make a point." "They're just in it to skip class." If there wasn't a big deal being made out of it (meaning, no internationally-circulated article), then most people would just shrug their shoulders and move on if they heard of this story.
1 ( +5 / -4 )
I'm a big Osaka fan and am strongly against racism.
However, this story lacks the context needed to make everyone so confident that this was clearly racism. There is no comedian on earth whose act would sound civil if you cherry picked a sentence from the middle of it and printed it in text. Tone of voice, narrative context, and familiarity with the comedian's previous positions on these issues all contribute to a very different understanding of a bit, than seeing a sentence printed on a screen in isolation.
"Dave Chappelle commented that he would never employ a black female unless she were physically attractive."
"George Carlin stated before an audience that political conservatives ought to receive physical violence as punishment for their immoral ways."
"Louis CK, a white comedian, used the n-word 17 times in his act when referring to black people."
These summaries might technically be true but if you've seen these comedians' acts before, then you would certainly understand the 'reports' in a totally different light and would understand that the nuance of the performance made it clear that these were not horrible, racist, violent, ignorant comments. We know these comedians. We like these comedians. We understand they're purposely being outrageous to make a greater point, and not being hurtful.
I think this Japanese duo's comments ought to be given the same benefit of the doubt, unless more context is given. Japan does have a history of racial insensitivity, but that doesn't mean we should assume to know the intent behind every Japanese person's comments - especially in the context of a comedy act.
-3 ( +8 / -11 )
Instead just pushing through, Is it very difficult for Japanese to say 'Excuse me'?
I definitely agree. I loathe being elbowed in the back by someone (usually by an older Japanese man) trying to get off the train or in crowded places, when a simple "Excuse me" would work so much more nicely.
7 ( +7 / -0 )
Okanetsu Industry, which prides itself on reaching out to farmers and responding to their needs, developed BJ with this in mind.
The farmers are eternally grateful, no doubt.
0 ( +0 / -0 )
The team is also one of the most popular in the league, attracting fans through unique and innovative management initiatives, and has set the record for the highest fan attendance in the Taiwan professional baseball league for five consecutive years since 2014.
Just wait till Rakuten forces them to become a cashless stadium. That'll really be the cherry on top.
1 ( +1 / -0 )
oldman_13: And, as per usual, pictures absolutely disprove the oft repeated ignorant beliefs that Japanese people do not voice their opinions in public or care little about political activities.
An unjust verdict connected to the deaths of thousands of people in Japan, and we have a photo of about 10 people.
China enacts a bill on Hong Kong that would result in an unfair law, and there are millions taking to the streets.
...what point were you trying to make, again?
5 ( +6 / -1 )
so like paying 320$ USD for a kid ?? is the uniform made out of dragon skin or something ?? this is really too much, even if it once a year still way too much money
Not for a kid. For one outfit. And if you'd like your child to have more than one set of clothes to wear, you've got to buy more than one outfit. This likely does not include a PE uniform (to be purchased separately) but might include the backpack (a specific one which is also required and more expensive than you could possibly believe). And then what happens when you child comes home and wants to join the cheerleading club? That's a whole new uniform and backpack to purchase.
What if the parents can't afford it? Are thier kids not allowed to go to school?
Correct. This was an issue at the school of my friend's children. Some parents said "I'm going to send them to school with whatever clothes we have - what's the school going to do?" The school sent them home, and then punished them for an unexcused absence. Some parents found an "older model" uniform from the same school at a second-hand clothing store. The school refused it - the new uniform had a slightly different design on the pocket or some such nonsense.
What if the parents can't afford it?
They work tirelessly to make it happen. These prices and expectations are much more common and expected in Japan than in Western countries. Being able to provide expensive school uniforms is a source of pride for many Japanese parents, who see it as "showing their love" for their child. People take extra jobs or work part time (on top of their already-loaded schedules) to make this happen.
8 ( +9 / -1 )
You do not NEED the over-priced goods that you see in stores. Shop elsewhere. Schoolchildren NEED the uniforms that are required by their school, and cannot shop elsewhere. Therefore, families can truly be hurt by collusive price-gouging.
8 ( +10 / -2 )
Burning Bush: masked protesters beating random people on the street probably isn't going over so well
You've misunderstood the news. There are no instances or accusations of this. However, the police have done it numerous times, and there is plenty of video evidence. Also, pro-Beijing thugs from the mainland have come over and done this as well, sometimes while wearing the colors of the protestors in efforts to discredit the protestors. However, these people have always been easily identifiable. The protestors have not beaten any random people on the street. Molotovs - yes, however.
Akie: which system is truly people's system ?
The system that the majority of people want. If you're still confused about which system that is, you haven't been following the news very carefully.
The HK police have initiated the vast majority of the violence. They have regularly thrown tear gas at groups of journalists and first aid workers on the streets. They have needlessly beaten people they randomly selected on the streets. Please research the Prince Edward MTR Station attacks. There are plenty of videos that will discredit your ideas about what is happening. 2. "show no mercy" is not in the proper police code in any country. The police's job is to protect and maintain order - not to attack, intimidate, or seek vengeance "with no mercy" as you are recommending.
Akie: HK police must show no mercy to violence.
5 ( +6 / -1 )