zichi reread my post I didn't claim that your position was that solar or wind power could replace it I facetiously reframed your argument as a strawman so you could see how it felt maybe comprehend what actually the strawman's fallacy was.... You know get a taste of medicine you like to dish out so often in your comments.... Attack MY position (Japan is not financially in position to take all off its current reactors if it wish to maintain its current economic level of production, plain and simple) Not a strawman of it!
I have tens[sic] of Japanese friends, family and hundreds of clients, but I don't know a single Japanese person who even wants any of the reactors restarted, regardless of what it would mean for the future?
So in your scientific unblinded and uncontrolled survey of the Japanese public N= what? 100? 10,000?
So I suppose you would equally believe that some one could only have a correct opinion on a crime if they held a degree in criminology? The majority of Japanese seem to be against the idea of restarting the reactors and in the end the decision will rest with them than anyone on this forum.
Ummm non sequitar but to answer your question. Why yes those who have a degree in criminology would probably have a much better or educated opinion on crime than the lay public so yeah I'd value their assessment of the nature of crime over the popular opinion, as for it being 'CORRECT' that's a individual value judgment ...there you go again strawmaning my words
If the government does not take note of the wishes of the people they'll find themselves out of office come the next general election.
Hahaha yeah for the Japanese public as whole, they have the greatest track record of electing good leaders... they'll surely give the mob ruled public what they want... like they are doing in Okinawa?
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Zichi I wasn't questioning you qualifications to comment, (but I have my doubts anyone advocating that solar and wind power alone could replace the cost effectiveness of in place nuclear reactors: see that was a strawman of your argument) I was questioning your way of framing of the problem... and painting anyone advocating not shutting down the reactors as apologists for the complacent officials at TEPCO...
But seriously a nation with no coal deposits of its own and very limited natural gas and oil...(in places that may require them to fight with either China or Russia to defend them) add to that the fact that the price of oil only going to climb higher ....I dare say there isn't a more perfect country where nuclear power is called for. It being a fault line obviously complicates matters and maybe Japan should be investing more money into geothermal electricity production since this is obviously a resource they are blessed/cursed with...but for a government that spends already more than takes in I dare say they are in any position to throw money at future payouts in technology that is still in its infancy stage. In medicine it's called triage... As for those experts that you claim clamoring for the shutdown of nuclear power in Japan only a very small number are actually nuclear engineers... and in total they are still a minority of all those qualified to offer an opinion.... I rest my opinion with the scientific consensus and that consensus says despite all the fear mongering from a small minority opinion of scientists, nuclear power is still pretty damn safe.
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WilliB I feel for you 3/4 of the posters here have no science literacy at all ... zichi you make some important points (like the breakup of the 9 conglomerates) but you need to learn the definition of a strawman argument cause that is exactly what you do to anyone who says that Japan isn't in a position to take nuclear power off its power generating repertoire... No one here on the forum is advocating for TEPCO or saying they didn't mismanage their plant or that changes need to be in order for them to come back on line...all we are saying is let's not throw the baby out with the bath water... a 20% loss of power generating abilities is significant no matter how you dice it up. With Japan completely dependent on its manufacturing base to maintain its economic stability gambling that it can do it without nuclear power is mighty risky bet....
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Good question SquidBert I'm not sure of the answer. I do know the Refinery next door turned a lot of left over refinery product into cake for steel smelting and that the Uranium was used in this process but as to whether the referral of what is being stored there is actually ENEOS' or Mitsui's or calculation of both is unclear and whether that amount is normal I don't know...
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@SquidBert Fair enough this has been tame to what I was first reading on facebook... maybe tainted my perspective... BUT honestly what would you call reposting and reporting unsubstantiated reports that depleted uranium is stocked at the site that just had a huge explosion? News meant to inform that what is being told is lie and you shouldn't trust the official news report?
Sure there are people who have right to be concerned and would like to know what is going on but those people are the people who live around the plant, for the rest of the peanut gallery its of little concern of yours other than any other tragedy that we might read here in JT. Crying foul or worse before the referee has even made his call in my book is just spreading unnecessary fear among an audience that has little understanding of what goes on in heavy industries... people should be more fearful when they get into a car.
@Zichi I agree chemical companies are nasty places (but not as many senseless deaths as say a convenience store clerk in the US, or the multitudes of active members of the military serving in a war zone) many companies do cut corners to make more money that is the nature of the beast. Hopefully within the company there enough competent and caring individuals that make sure they don't cut too many corners that it risks the lives of everyone. But again let's let the professional inspectors make their ruling before we go off half cocked with crazy conspiracy theories that it shouldn't have been there. I agree dangerous materials should be stored in 'fireproof' buildings but any firefighter will tell you there is no such thing as building that is fireproof especially ones storing hazardous waste.
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Nor do hospitals have a need to but petrochemical refineries do.... believe it or not depleted uranium is commonly used in gas/petrol refineries... which is actually being done right next door. It's not like this uranium was being stored there improperly or without reason. Maybe after the investigation we'll find out that things weren't being done right; but having personally worked in this industry right next door: safety is an issue they take more seriously than most of do for even the most innocuous of tasks. Just because one group of coddled old codgers lost the public trust for mismanaging a horrific disaster doesn't mean every industry suffers the same fate.... I haven't read over all the supposed documents documenting that there was 3000+ 55 gallon drums of depleted uranium, I don't doubt that there were despite it coming from a dubious source Fukushima Diaries. But me thinks that the uranium that is being scaremongered about here on this forum is the ENEOS' refinery's uranium and not Mitsui's but don't quote me on that. Truth is at any advanced petrochemical plant you are going to find a whole plethora of nasty things that no one wants released into the environment, depleted uranium is the least of our worries.... And like all things run by humans, mistakes are bound to be made unfortunately in industries and environments like this they are fatal and costly. Watch the price of gas/petrol take a 5 to 8 yen leap this week as I am certain as a matter of standard protocol the neighboring refinery was taken off line...
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Cue the fear mongers... I come home from a Carps game to find my facebook lite up like Christmas tree with all my friends fearing for me and my families safety... whoever reported 'Petrochemical Complex Containing Nuclear Fuel On Fire After Explosion' needs to flogged... Hospitals store radioactive material just because they catch fire doesn't mean nuclear material is being released into the atmosphere. I live not far from there less than 10km and actually worked at the ENOS Refinery right next to Mitsui several years ago... It's nothing more than a tragedy and a chemical fire that isn't good for the residents living right next to the factory but not a threat to anything beyond the smoke.....People please let's not throw reason out the window. .
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My bet is that Chinese sabotaged it.... its way insuring that US is committed to region that is financially costly plus they get to keep them even more in their pocket selling the fools in power more supplies to build another.
I was so looking forward to the JSDF shooting that sucker out of the sky which you know would get the knee jerk reaction from China... America lurking in DPRK backyard is all a part of China's plan to beat the US at its own game... bankrupting your enemies. However if Japan were to rethink its interpretation of Article 9 the Chinese cool collected handling of US influence in East Asia would be out the window... nothing raises the hackles of the Chinese than the thought of an active Japanese military. That would have made for an interesting Friday the 13th... Oh well I guess I have to sulk in the AKB48 news posts.
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Tahoochi: Can you say pedantic correction? Actually most transliterations of the term I have ever seen in English have it spelled as one word... but kudos to you for knowing it was 2. 33jw67 I guess you never heard of the argument from antiquity?
What I want to know is why is the unsuccessful bully survey is even news? Maybe because JT knew this would be hit with the usual suspects... who love nothing more than to rant on and on about the ineffectiveness of Japanese schools, like any of our nation's schools are fairing any better at rooting out the institutional world wide problem of bullying. Cause let's be honest it's not like any particular nation has got the solution to systemic problem of bullying.
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@cubic at 183 cm and feet that are 29.5 cm to 30 cm it has nothing to do with being overweight... even their sizes that I could wear have shrunk... the XL shirts I used to buy 5 years ago the sleeves were long enough to reach my hands and tails were long enough to stay tucked in but all 3 of the shirts I bought of the same exact size as my previous shirts they were a whole 2 cm shorter... I didn't even have to measure, but did, you could hold the older shirt up to the newer shirt and see the difference. Common sense would lead one to believe the smaller one should be the older one due to being washed numerous times thus shrinking as cotton tends to do but that was not the case ....
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What this article fails to mention is that Iwakuni is already in line to host the Naval Carrier Air Group from Atsugi when that base reverts back to sole JMSDF control in 2016...(but seeing how many agreements with the 2006 realignment plan are already broken who knows if this will come to fruition) I imagine with the proposed additional housing area to be built on the land that once was a mountain that was removed and used to build the new runway out in the bay hung up in bureaucratic red tape... (i.e. local resident opposition rallied to protest its construction before it was actually built) I have a feeling this is only the beginning the news were going to here about transferring military personnel to Iwakuni
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@ExportExpert Hmmm so because TEPCO lied and mismanaged an unimaginable natural disaster so they are stupid TEPCO is a Japanese Company TEPCO is a nuclear power industry Amano is the head of nuclear power regulatory organization Amano is Japanese Thus he is idiot, brainwashed or simply bribed? Non Sequitar...
No I'm afraid the only idiot is the one that would not recognize the OBVIOUS: Of course, Nuclear Power is Safer! Now that the horse has been let out of the barn... the knee jerk reaction is try and shut the door.
For me, who used to lean anti-nuclear before, personally Fukushima proves that with that ancient of equipment, that poor of government oversight, that apparent lack of foresight and poor managing of the crisis added to the double disaster of the century earthquake then tsunami, the fact that Japan isn't 100 hundred times worse off with that perfect storm of ineptitude just goes to show me that actually nuclear power is pretty damn safe. Now if we only could convert all power generation to more modern light water reactors where 'melting down' is impossible we could all go back to charging up our electronic equipment
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Reading all these comments by foreigners who seem to imply that their own culture would never tolerate such silliness...Ironic I think the Japanese must think the same thing when they read about diners serving triple bypass burgers in the states or hearing about what is in poutine in Quebec... every delicacy has its inherent risk... Living down near Yamaguchi Prefecture I eat fugu all the time like many things Japanese value in their palette it has an unusual texture for the average westerner and a very subtle taste that some may write off as bland... not for everyone, maybe not worth the price in Tokyo but around here it really isn't that expensive.
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Bottom line, there is zero argument for nuclear plants. Zero. There is no argument, because the argument is over in three seconds. As soon as anyone realizes the complete foolishness of using something so dangerous as atomic power, (any kid can type in "Chernobyl", "Fukushima", "Three Mile Island", "Hanford" ...etc, etc, etc, etc) .. and know what that the technology is no good. Actually far worse than no good because it trashes the earth and makes people ill.
@TheBigPicture so what you are saying is that the 100,000+ strong field of nuclear engineers are wrong and all that power production made over the last 50 years or so is just an economic ruse? ummm OK... So you are all enlightened and the rest of us are just sheeple? Just because you don't understand the technology and it potentials despite its risks does not mean that is has ZERO advantages... Or for that matter anything you think is a statement of fact seeing how you can't even get simple basic science right: Man i.e. homo sapiens, has not been on this planet for millions of years... homo sapiens have existed for only 200,000 years and in the form we consider modern humans only 50,000 years. Empirical data actually makes facts and unfortunately they don't support your claim of ZERO argument... Lack of green house gas emissions, perhaps?
How about you leave the science aspect of the political discussion for the adults in the room. Saying there is no argument for the use of nuclear power ... in a country that lacks the necessary sources of fuel for VIABLE alternative sources power generation (not the small scale individual power generation that comes from so called 'Green' power of solar and wind) is more than ridiculous it is actually childish...
3 cheers to Kan for being an unusual Japanese politician and actually making a hard decision. I may have to revise my opinion of him (that's what intelligent people do when their premises have been shown to be in fact false)
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