toannds comments

@flowers:

that is the lamest excuse, the Philippines broke their own agreement because all efforts already “exhausted”! If you read the news China never once said “no more negotiation”, only “let’s keep the dialogue going”.

Yes, "let's keep the dialogue going" when my ships keep coming and some dirty trick such as banana import ban. Once I built enough pressure, the "dialogue" should be going well.

That's the so called Chinese style dialogue. It would be a strange thing if China said there's no more negotiation.

@Tony Ew:

China only claim islands where she think she is at least entitled to a share of it. How strong is China's case I cannot be sure, but there is enough documentations to give China the rights to those islands, perhaps much more than the other parties.

Oh yes, with such a strong stand China definitely has not thing to fear at the court. Take into account that China has refused to go to court with Philippine, I guess this tiny neighbor has some bigger weapons that the defendant scare: the apparent truth that recognized by UNCLOS and anyone with common sense when look at the nine-dash-line.

From "I cannot be sure" becomes "there is enough" and "perhaps much more than other parties" :D. This is the mentality that China's neighbors have been observing and afraid when China's military spending at 2 digits. I guess either you have not taken at the nine-dash-line by your self or your brain was washed by China. Such a claim has no basis under UNCLOS which China it self is a member. That's the reason why it refused to go to court and use the lame excuse "bilateral talk only". This also shows how effective China propaganda is. Claiming something well inside neighbor EEZ and thousand kilometers away is already quite amazing. What even more amazing is brainwashing the whole race to believe in that groundless/shameless lie!

@Tony Ew:

There is no country in the world more maligned than China because of fine misrepresentations done by the West.

Just look at the nine-dash-line map which licks all neighbors's EEZ then answer my questions honestly without thinking about the West or China: Is that groundless and shameless? How does this map impress you?

You never hear of China claiming islands outside the China Seas, not the Maldives, not Sri Lanka, not Tasmania, Australia

Chinese leaders: "That is part of future plan, once we became world number one superpower. Please ask our scholars prepare historic proofs as what they have done for South China Sea. Ask them to make it thousand years old and if possible they should fool C-14 dating"

China will not be bullied by smaller countries ganging up on her. This threat had subsided but China is taking no chances and thus building up her military is the right thing to do as long as China don't initiate aggressive action against other countries. (China has proven peaceful so far!)

Neighbors: We don't take chances either. We don't want to be another Tibet.

This is a good reason why China should upgrade her military and hopefully make stealth F22 and F 35 fighters vulnerable so as to make war even less likely.

Chinese leaders: Don't worry, we stolen all Western intellectual properties already. Don't you see our building in Shanghai had made a big news on enemy newspapers recently? We will use what we have stolen to make our own F2200 and F3500 in the same way we did to the Soviet Su-27!

This means good for world peace!

Sure, once we became number one superpower, every country will have peace: Let China control natural resources, your peace is guaranteed!

Tony Ew: Let me repeat: China is posturing with tough talk, back up with more military muscle, drawing up 9 dash line map in the passport.

Just tell me: Do you believe that claim is correct and that contribute to "world peace" or "region's stability"? Or you see the 9 dash line is groundless and shameless claim? Except Chinese, everyone in this regions see China is the clear and present threat. Let me repeat: It's China's behavior that paints its face, not any "cow boy" state

@flowers: What you don’t understand is China is abiding by the rules set in the Agreement between the Philippines and China that any disputes shall be resolved by bilateral talks. China didn’t force them to sign the Agreement. But, the Philippines negate their own agreement and you thought China tried to force or intimidate them

I already answered in my post earlier: Philippines already brought the case to the court because all efforts already "exhausted" thanks to China continuous sending ships to Philippines EEZ. The talk did not work because China talk by "flexing muscles" only. That's why China "stick" to bilateral talk where it can manipulate/bully the smaller and weaker rather than dealing with all victims or other big guys at the same time. Common, don't tell me that there's no such practice in this 21st century. You should see that since China and ASEAN countries signed the agreement, China is the one that has been continuously harassing its neighbors and trying to change status quo most.

Lets try a simple version: In your life, when you sign any contract with some one, both parties basically agree on things to do and not to do. The clause you should see is when there's a dispute/conflict both will have to sit down and try to solve them. BUT another one even more important: if no solution can be found, the matter should go to some court. This is to prevent any party from unilaterally infringe other party's interest when the talk failed. That's what people do everywhere in this world!

So, do you really think China can eat up a little guy just like that?

Tibet people regretted. Everything is possible! See, no one imagined before that some day a country could assert such a groundless and shameless "nine dash lines" claim over 80% of South China Sea which licks all neighbors EEZ. Yet, there is one.

You can see that China has good relationships with other neighbours such as Myanmar, Laos, and Thailand

Sure, China badly wants to get back to the time when it enjoyed its monopoly in Myanmar. After long time being taken advantage by China, finally Myanmar broken up the isolation.

I guess you should have mentioned Cambodia as well because China successfully divided the ASIAN countries in its summit. This is off topic anyway.

@Tony EwMar: People just don't understand China behavior very well.

You are rite. I guess some neighbors did not understand China very well that's why they were caught off guard when they believed in the "peacefull raise" of China.

When China ask for bilateral negotiations with the neighbors, what do they do?

Bilateral talks with China was proven not working and will not work because the big bad guy just tried to bully the tiny neighbors. China is the one does not know how to talk. The only thing it knows is bringing more ships to South East China sea to intimidate others. Philippines already said all their efforts were "exhausted" (sic). The "nine-dash-line" claim is shameless because it just lick all neighbours EEZ. China itself of course knows they would lose flat in any international court because it is groundless. That's why it try to keep the matter "locally". A bad guy is trying to grab toy from a kid by force. When the kid see it is hopeless to get the toy back by "talk", he then shouts for help. We know what the bad guy would do, logically: Shhh ... please keep quiet! Don't let anyone know!

They hide behind Clinton strategy to negotiate under the ASEAN 'group purchasing power' hoping China will give them a discount under duress

What a tiny country does when the bad giant neighbor misbehaves and does not know how to talk? Should it fight alone? Or it will team up with other victims and some other bigger guys? You should have known by now how international diplomacy work.

Yes, we believe in China's "peaceful raise". But we trust Tibet, Uighur, India, Inner Mongol, Vietnam, Philippine, Russia, Japan. We don't want to be another Tibet.

Nathaw: As a resource poor nation, Japan has a history as land grabber

Oh common, China is the biggest shameless land grabber from its neighbors: Tiben, Uigur, Inner Mogol, India, Vietnam , USSR, ...

I hope recent China 'intrusions' forces people to become less sheeple and dig deeper and learn the facts instead of being colored by Japanese textbooks

The facts are: neighbors already waken up. They are forced to enter an arm race to protect them self from the so called "the peaceful raise" of China which is eating their EEZ piece by piece.

China has plenty of evidences including foreign maps and documents that show China has sovereignty over the islands

Sound familiar on South China Sea dispute. Are you sure that they are not fake? I said that because there are lots of fake goods being produced from China nowadays!

flowers,

Silent meant "I agreed/lost", not "virtue" like you thought :D

China was weak militarily and economically

Because of that China then shrunk its map. Now China is stronger, so it wants to expand its the map in the regions using its own version "historic evidence". Is it the same kind of "historic evidence" that it is using for claiming Philippines and Vietnam's EEZ thousand miles away???

It is not ok because it is in dispute area. This is nothing news anyway: dirty mouth is trying to bite piece by piece, like what they did in South China Sea. At the end, changed the status quo.

This is a closed case that China wants to reopen because they let go of land they thought of as worthless 100 years >ago. After WWII the US occupied the lands of Japan... not China. When the land was returned, it was returned to Japan. >If China had any claim they could have gotten the land after WWII, while they were dividing up Japanese colonies and >lands. Or they could have made a claim for them when the US had control of them. But no, not until there MIGHT be >natural gas or other natural resources there. Childish.

Spot on, Dennis711! That's the whole story short!

On South China Sea front: When Philippines brought them to court, they said it is an issue between 2 sides, should be discussed bilaterally and not to go to any court. At the same time the bully keeps sending ships to the dispute area thousands miles away (which just 130 miles from the victim, well inside EEZ)!

Childish

Its correct for the later as well: a bad guy tries to grab a toy of a kid. When the kid cried aloud, the bad guy tries to cover the kid's mouth so that no one else can hear!

Republic of China, which had an embassy in Washington DC, agreed to the territories specified in the SF Peace Treaty >which is basically confirmed in the subsequent treaty between Japan and ROC.

How about China's claim over 80% of South China Sea which licks all neighbors EEZ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dotted_line. They said they have "historic" evidences. What do you think, nigelboy?

The declaration states that disputes should be solved through friendly talks and negotiations by sovereign states >directly concerned

They all can be resolved peacefully, only if they talk to each other .

You made me laugh. The big neighbor intruded into your house, pointed the gun at you and said you should negotiate under its "friendly" gun barrel, not by kicking him out or calling police. All efforts from Philippines were "exhausted" (sic) thanks to all kinds of "friendly" Chinese ships in its EEZ (and dirty trick "friendly" banana import banning). Since the the 2002 declaration, China has been the one that harassing its neighbors most. It is trying to change the status quo before the next agreement between China and ASEAN countries completion (and it is trying to delay this as well).

Pushing its claims over 80% of the sea and licks all neighbor's coasts, Chinese's nine dash line claim is groundless and ridiculous. That only can come from a big bully. It's amazing that you and many Chinese "scholars" still can't see that from the map. Are you sure that you are not bias or brainwashed or blinded?

Japan is stupid. Time has changed, Japan is not the Japan before and China now is Japan 70 years ago. The constitution must be changed be a normal one, like any other country to deal with the threat!

China is a thug simply because it bullies all of its neighbors. See their nine dash line claim in South China Sea you will understand. It licks all its neighbor EEZ. It is a clear and present threat. For all those said about hidden behind US or history lesson for Japan: Without US it already taught China Navy a lesson in ww ii. The lesson for Japan was: it would win any war with China and would lose if attack US. I think it leant that lesson well this time but China did not. China tarnished their own image by them self. I have met many Japanese and Chinese from mainland. Japanese people are humble, quiet. Chinese are noisy and arrogant. No one in south east Asia like Chinese tourists, even in Singapore.

You are absolutely rite. Without China, Vietnam would be at least as same as South Korea now. Thanks to China, it copied the land reform and all kind of dictatorships. Thanks to China's weapons, Vietnamese them self killed millions each other.

China is a clear and present threat because the way it behaves in both Japan sea and South China Sea: Avoid any multiple-party talk or go to international court because they know their claim is groundless and ridiculous. Instead, it favors "bilateral talk" where it easily manage the tiny neighbors.

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/02/21/911285/un-arbitration http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/world-commentary/chinas-expansionism-echoes-history/story-e6frg6ux-1226581436149

history told us that every war that China was engaged in there was always a good reason for it Everyone would like to know the "good reason" from Chinese perspective in the invasion Vietnam 1979 with 600,000 soldiers, killing mostly civilians on the border, committing war crime over there, murdered international correspondents? Not sure if you heard about that war either :) And what is the "good reason" to support the Khmer Rouge which killed 2 millions Cambodians?

The most logic answer is: If you "good reasons" to kill dozen of millions of your own peoples in "land reform" and "culture revolution", no one in this world believe you would have any mercy to other neighbors.

China did not break any international law with regards to the nine dash line. That speak volume. Really not brainwashed or blinded? Tell it to the non-Chinese world, you would be more surprised!

... and land dispute with India as well. Why so many? No wonder why it is isolated now. Don't blame US/Japan. Blame your self for the bad things you do to your neighbors. Need to stress here as well: US had to come back to the region after many years of China misbehavior on South China Sea. People in this region view China as a threat and supports US back. China is the cause and US coming back is the consequence, not the other way round as the Chinese media propaganda.

Please accept the fact that at least since 1895 China has never been in control of the island. It kept silent for almost 70 years and even published some map saying that belong to Japan. China tactic is clear to both Japan and South East Asia: Changing status quo. Whatever in dispute now is mine, what are yours now I will make them become in dispute. It does not respect any international law. See their nine dash line claim over South China Sea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dotted_line. Even a kid with common sense would say it is ridiculous because it licks all neighbor coasts. However, it's amazing that Chinese people including their scholars were brainwashed to believe it is logical. I talked to many Chinese from master degree to Phd. They said Vietnam was a province of China being taken by France in the past and China will have to take it back in future. What a mind work! Everyone in this region saw China as a serious threat and US had to come back. History says it all: Tibet, Uighur, Cambodia's Khmer Rouge, North Korea, invading Vietnam in 1979, recent standoff with Philippine at their EEZ ... People are not stupid and they know quite well who is the bad guy.

Please stop arguing! See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-dotted_line It clearly shows the peaceful raise of China