NATIONALISTIC PRIDE, the worst disease any Human identity group can be saddled with
I can definitely agree with this sentence.
But the only PRIDE that is making things complicated and keeps on reigniting issues, are the Korean’s pride. And is seems like their leaders are always refueling it for their own votes.
The Koreans always recognized China as their big brother and Japan as their little brother. So it was OK to have their big brother bully them from time to time, and to be placed under their influence. But they just cannot accept the fact that they were overpowered and humiliated by their little brother (worse, conquered without any bullet exchange), and is seeking every chance to get back on them. That is why any apology or any compensation will NEVER be enough for them. It is all about pride.
If you think the Japanese are full of pride, you should take a look at the polls of favored countries. Even though Japan is always at the top of the chart for being one of the most favored countries, they do not get much vote from their own people. This is quite sad, to not have much pride or favor towards your own country. But due to the recent incidents with its neighbors (especially Korea) and with the effect of Japanese government policy(taking away the shameful details from history books, which was there before), pride and nationalism is building in the younger generation very fast.
5 ( +7 / -2 )
But the Japanese government is one of the premier hypocrites of planet Earth, so I am not holding my breath.
Really? Could you please point out any governments that are not as, or were less hypocritical than the Japanese government? Definitely not the US, China impossible, Russia scares me, and most EU countries don’t even try to speak the truth.
The three points you listed, I also agree with them. But the point is, under rightful international law, whether there were no agreements between Japan and China, they belong to Japan as they took the right steps to claim them. AND this was way before WWII. There are no, and should be no disputes.
The Japanese government being hypocritical and ignoring Chinese claims but pressing claims on Kuriles and Dokdo, is just natural. They are just trying to bring maximum benefits to their own country, just like all their neighboring governments are doing so too.
On the other hand, I am starting to feel sorry against the SK people, as Moon (or the SK government) is now way past being hypocritical, and quite lost in how to bring benefits to their own country. It seems like it is all about pride and emotion, and forgetting about being rational or logical. (Although this has nothing to do with then topic here)
I am surprised that, despite your knowledge and details about this issue, your opinion against Japan is quite biased. As I would assume you have many historical knowledge on many countries and how hypocritical they were. Is there a personal reason why you are being harsher against Japan than the others?
4 ( +5 / -1 )
Hmm... I don't see why this is an issue.
Japan decided to list SK in their white list and treat them special from 2004. But now decided to take SK off the list and treat them the same as others, since Japan can no longer trust them as they used to.
Seems very simple and straightforward.
3 ( +5 / -2 )
I imagined a stupid FCR officer would arbitrarily have done it against Japan P-1 plane as practical joke because probably he dislikes Japan.
I assume different. I don't think it was any kind of joke or mistake. I think he deliberately aimed the FCR on P-1 to run them off so they would not be caught on whatever they were actually doing out there. I seriously cannot believe that this was any rescue mission.
Why else the North Korean ships did not constantly alarm for help? Why else did none of them have any flags on their ship? And why else would the MND explanation change one after the other?
The argument that the SK vessel could not understand the English spoken by the P1 is ridiculous.
Don't also forget that their arguments were that they could not make out what they were saying due to the weakness of radio and noises because of the 'harsh weather'. Until Japan released a video taken by P-1, which showed very calm weather.
5 ( +6 / -1 )
My questions are;
Why did the Korean explanation change from time to time?
Radar were used for searching -- all radars including FCR was used -- only optical camera was used an no radar emission -- absolutely no radar emission -- various radars were used for rescue (but no FCR)
Why did the explanation for not replying to (3 attempts) P-1 radio contact change?
Before the video footage: Could not make out what they were saying due to the weakness of radio and noises under bad weather.
After the video footage: The English was not fluent enough and therefore could not make out what they were saying.
The MND explained that this was a rescue mission, but if it was so, why was the help only directed to South Korea and not to Japan (being the fact that the area was claimed as EEZ by both Korea and Japan)?
Why did they actually need both the Korean Navy destroyer and Korean Coast Guard vessel for the rescue?
And why did none of them have any flags on them?
Was it really coincidence that the 'South Korean' vessels found and rescued 'North Korean' ships?
The MND claimed that P-1 was flying dangerously low and should apologize for the menacing act.
But the Japanese P-1 have came as close to the same Korean Navy destroyer and shot photos of them in April 27, April 28, and August 23. But no complaints were made back then.
Why did they complain this time?
The only questions for the Japanese, is that these incidents are usually handled very politically and would not be made public, unless the Koreans make some claim or issues first.
But why did they have to make it public this time? What is it so different from other issues?
13 ( +14 / -1 )
Okay, let's straighten this out.
Dec 21 - Japanese MoD: made official announcement on the incident.- Korean MND: immediately responded that the radar was used to search for North Korean ship for rescue.
Dec 22 - MoD: stated that FCR is not suitable for broad rage searching, they should be using specific radar for se searching.- MND: replied, because the weather was so bad and the rescue needed to be prompt, all radars including FCR was used, but there was no intention to aim it at P-1.
Dec 23 - MND: further explained that an optical camera (attached to the radar) was used to check on the P-1 making menacing flight, but no radar was emitted.
- MoD: there are proofs that the radar was locked on. They should not make any further excuses.
Dec 25 - MND: there were absolutely no radar emission.
- MoD: P-1 was repeatedly and continuously irradiated by specific FCR wave directly from Korean Marine vessels.
- MND: will work with Japan to resolve these misunderstandings.
Dec 28 - MoD: released a video taken by P-1 during the incident.
Jan 02 - MND: started to demand apology from Japan that the P-1 was flying dangerously low.
Jan 04 - MND: released a video criticizing Japan for the low flying altitude of the P-1. (The video mainly consists of the materials released by the MoD)
Jan 08 - MoD: repeatedly commented that Japan would be able to exchange radar wave records with the MND to deepen discussion.
Jan 14 - Both Japan and South Korea promised to hold further negotiations. But could not agree on terms of exchanging data.
Jan 21 - MoD: released location relationship diagram and RWR reception record receiving radar continuously waves and rings.
- MND: RWR reception record cannot exactly prove the usage of FCR since various radars were used
Looks pretty understandable why the Japanese MoD decided to stop the talk. This is going nowhere.
13 ( +14 / -1 )
*With the Annexation Treaty, neither side declared anything to terminate it; the 1965 Treaty declared that the Annexation treaty was "Already null and void". *So what does it mean? Since neither side did anything to terminate the treaty but the treaty was already null and void by the time of 1965 Treaty, it means the annexation treaty was null and void from 1910.
Why did you change the focal point of the talk? Clearly, I was asking for the evidence on the Japanese occupation of Korea to be "illegal and criminal" as you mentioned. The declaration of the 1965 treaty only means that both country agrees that the treaty in 1910 was no longer active at that time. It has nothing to do with legality of the annexation.
Korean students don't prefer working in Japan; the starting salary of Korean college graduates with large Korean corporations is USD 3,500~5,000 a month depending on where you got the job. Yup, brand name corps will pay you $5,000 a month fresh out of college, a sum unheard of in Japan.
Wow, I am starting to feel sorry for you. You are so biased that you only try to acknowledge the information you want to. Yes, it is true that few of the large Korean companies do pay higher than Japanese or other western companies. But they are minorities of your company. Take a look at Korean governments information, claiming that SMEs take up 88% of total employment;
And the wages for these large companies are 3.1 times higher than the wages of other companies;
This is not something the Koreans should be proud of, but instead should be embarrassed of, as this just shows unhealthiness of the economy. If this keeps up, no matter how high the wages rise for the large companies, the average wage will not rise;
Also, somebody has to do something about this "Chaebol" in Korea, as it only creates further corruption and unfair competition in the world. This will just keep the Korean economy unhealthy;
*Unfortunately, Korea has a college graduation rate of 80%, meaning not all college graduates are able to find full time jobs that require a college degree. Those left out of Korea's job market will then seek a job in Japan instead, knowing that wages are much lower than in Korea. But they have no choice.*
As I mentioned above, MOST of the Korean companies pay much lower wage than average Japanese companies. Only 1% of the companies in Korea are considered to be large companies. The other 99% cannot even provide jobs for all the college graduates. Therefore, high pay or low pay, it does not matter as they cannot find any kind of jobs in Korea. You are right. They have no choice but to get help from other countries.
6 ( +6 / -0 )
It is Japan that is in trouble. Japanese government is telling its defense contractors that it cannot pay them next year and is demanding a deferment of payment until 2021.
Are you so biased that you cannot face the fact? Or have you just not been reading the news lately?
Here is an article for you to understand the reality;
Also, it was just this month that the Korean government held a Japanese Job Fair because they are having trouble with students finding jobs in Korea.
It seems to me that South Korea is gaining the respect of the world, where as Japan losing the respect it has worked so hard to achieve.
Evidence please? In addition to OssanAmerica's list;
And please read carefully on what the WORLD has to say about Korea;
The Japanese occupation of Korea is considered null, void, illegal, and criminal from Day 1.
Again, please provide evidence. It seems like the rest of the world does not see it that way. Check the result of "A reconsideration of Japanese Annexation of Korea from the Historical and International Law Perspectives" held at Harvard University.
In conclusion, your comments are always not based on facts or evidences, lowering YOUR reputation and respect.
8 ( +10 / -2 )
I do agree that shochinmono's comment was quite ridiculous, but I also think you are missing a point here. I understand that he was talking about the Zainichi Koreans (north and south) who is living in Japan, getting special aids from Japan, but continues to educate their kids that Japan is their enemy and should not get influenced by the Japanese culture. What happened to "When in Rome, do as Romans do"? On the other hand, all Japanese living in the US, complies with the US education (pledges the allegiance to the FLAG), get all the influences from the US as possible. So your comparison is not relevant in this case.
As for Serrano's comment, you are right. This has nothing to do with individual responsibility. However, you have missed a point that the SK government did acknowledge the fact that the forced laborers are in fact part of the agreement in 1965, and accepted the fact that they were Japanese nationals at that time. The reason they agreed to this, is because if they left them out (as the comfort women were) and gave individuals the right to make claims to companies on there selves, this will also give the right to Japanese companies to all their properties that they left behind in Korea. The agreement was actually there to help the Korean government if the Japanese companies made any claims, as many western companies did in their colonies when they moved back. But now it's breached.
15 ( +17 / -2 )
Japan, you have learned your lesson.
No matter how much you pay, no matter how many times you apologize, no matter how many agreements or promises you come to settle with, Koreans will say either they were not enough or had problems in the first place, and scrap them (or smudge them back in your face).
Just stop any diplomatic relation with them.
Pretty soon, the Korean economy will collapse and they will come to ask for Japan's help, but no need to aid them this time (as you have in the past). The whole world now understands that Koreans (or at least their government) are liars and agreement violators, so no one will feel sorry even if Japan does not help them.
20 ( +25 / -5 )
It's interesting that you did not get an answer to this question. It's quite obvious that these types of threads are hit hard by the netto-uyoku. They target particular threads that nationalists have interests in and with their numbers, attempt to distort history and popular opinion. It's quite sad.
You are right to some point. There are a lot of these netto-uyoku, who only target these particular threads and comment only because nobody can see them, based on limited knowledge searched on internet. However, many of these people are not uyoku (right-winged) in reality, but turn into them when these kind of threads arise. And there are reasons for that. And I will get to it along with answers to the following.
I must ask the individual down voters on here. Pride aside, why do you find it so difficult to accept past attrocities? Why continue to deny the attrocities committed against neighbors? I can't understand this train of thought. It's baffling.
It is not about pride, and no one is actually denying them. The reason you are not getting any replies to this is because many have mixed feelings about this.
Most Japanese (I say most as there are pure bred right-wingers who do not agree) do acknowledge and accepts the fact that Japan did commit atrocities to their neighbors. Or I should say DID. Many of the older Japanese generations born during or right after the war was raised with extreme sayoku (left-winged) education, teaching that nationalism is evil. They taught only the wrong doings of Japan and it was wrong to have any pride being a Japanese. (This education did a very good job as 70% of the 20 year-olds in Japan replied on a questionnaire that they wanted to have another country's citizenship if they had a choice, back in the late 80's. There still is also many debates about having a national flag or singing the national anthem at elementary schools, which should not even be a debate in any other country) Therefore it became a mission (or common sense) for all Japanese to be polite and sincere to foreigners or on foreign grounds, to redeem their past. In the meantime, they were also giving their hard earned money to countries which they committed wrongs.
But soon, these neighboring countries (mostly Koreans, sometime Chinese, and never other countries) started reheating the past deeds and making claims which was said to be already resolved. One or two times was okay, and most of the Japanese understood the anger for what happened in the past. But the continuing harassment gradually changed the minds of many.
Now, because of these two situation (extreme left-winged education and continuous harassment), the Japanese are swinging very rapidly towards right-wing. TV shows are constantly showing how wonderful Japan is, and history lessons are educating on the reasons (justifications) of how it all happened. Pride and nationalism is on the rise. I believe that we will start seeing much less of these polite and quite Japanese from now on.
5 ( +5 / -0 )
The problem is, Koreans do not want this to end. As they will not be able to blame Japan for all their problems, if it does end.
And Japan cannot apologize even if they wanted to, as it will mean all other western nations which did similar deeds will also have to, as it was legal back then.
7 ( +9 / -2 )