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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Hoofin says he thinks it will be based on on what the new Labor Minister (Nagatsuma?) does with all the changes to the Japanese system. They might merge all the health and pension programs.

In such an environment, I wouldn't go down to the immigration without an NHI card or employer coverage, but that's just me.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Hey don't get me wrong, I've always paid my dues and have no intention of not doing.

Cleo, not directed at you. It's the other stuff. And I think Thon was the one to add about sales taxes. You're right that Nagoya's example was for a family. A single person would have something like that 250,000 yen (works to 5% of gross).

I agree there is some unfairness in how Japan taxes for the medical. Another example is if you take a steep hit to income while on the Kokumin Kenko Hoken. The ward will bill you off the prior year's income--whether you have it handy or not. So you can get stuck with 450,000 insurance charges on 3,500,000 yen earnings.

Part of Japan's administrative problem is that for such an anally tight country on some issues, they are a regular banana republic when it comes to others. So instead of improving the system, they have to waste time debating and arguing with every group that has chiseled out a good thing over the last 50 years.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Patrick, it's just hard to nail down what you're saying.

Yes, noborito pointed directly at 50%. You said that the base rate was 20%, then the 14.96% social insurances. Then, you said "and everything else." Right above you say Residential Tax is 10% and then you've mentioned the consumption tax (5%). So total 49.96%?

Now, you're saying, no, that's out of context.

Someone making 5 million, they get 1,540,000 off the top, plus another 380,000 personal deduction. So their net is 3,080,000. Let's take 14.96% health like you said. That's 748,000 yen which comes off. So taxable is 2,332,000 yen.

From the site http://www.foreclosedjapan.com/jtax.html , which was yours, the first 1,945,000 is at 5% (97,250). The remaining 387,000 is at 10% (38,700). Total national tax is 135,950 yen --- 2.71%. Not 20%.

Somebody making 5 million yen isn't even paying the 20% bracket.

I trust the 2.71% because here's a calculation right there. The other posters can do the math or point out what's wrong.

It just sounds like taxes are reasonable except for those who don't like to pay taxes.

The SE Asians you are so worried about probably aren't making more than 2 million man a year, and I doubt taxes and social insurance adds up to very much at all. Although living on 2 million yen gross is a stretch in any event. I'm not sure what your mentioning them adds to what you were saying, except to change the subject.

You say that the government is going to change the laws on dependents, but you don't mention that they are handing out big cash grants each year for each child up until junior high, and paying towards high school. Again, what's it to do with health care?

Almost all of Japan's debt is owed to other Japanese--virtually none of it owed to foreigners. The money due and the money owed is all in Japan. Again, what's it to do? I don't where this means anything about what foreigners in Japan have to pay for health insurance to the local government.

Like I say, when it comes to nailing down which of the many opinions out there is right, you change the subject on to something else. It's really hard to get a straight answer.

Enjoy your beer.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Patrick, you're the one cmplaining to everyone about a 50% tax. I just want to know what the truth is.

The SIA website just says 14.96% SPLIT between employer and employee. For both pension AND health. I'm just asking where your came up with the 14.96% for ward health insurance.

Every time you get called on one of your false statements, you find another website and spin some other thing.

I'm not looking to get out of paying anything. But you are.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Patrick, except at Hoofin to You! the guy put in some time to explain how the taxes work. Anyone can look and at least there's something to work with.

http://hoofin.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/japan-tax-5hyaku-man-example2.png

You just keep saying, well it's 20% this and 14.96% percent that and then they will easily take another 10% there, and pretty soon it's 50%! But you don't really give examples.

It sounds like if you can cut out paying nenkin coupons and the Residential Tax and get some freebie health care coverage, you save a couple thousand man yen. That's really your big issue.

Anything on that list that you can get around paying, that's the goal.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Look it, I don't know who to believe, but this is his version of 5 million yen without the family included:

http://hoofin.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/japan-tax-5hyaku-man-example2.png

The National Tax is 3.43%.

The Residential Tax is 5.38%--not as low as what Nagoya said, but not a flat 10%.

Total kokumin nenkin coupon plus health insurance is 7.8%, and no more than 400,000 yen in a year.

The example shows that someone making 5 million yen would NOT be paying in the 20% National Tax bracket.

Some states in America tax food with sales tax: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1230 Cleo, you forgot transportation, which in America does carry the sales tax. Most poor people travel around in cars. If they even have the smallest house, there is a real estate tax.

You guys just sound like people who will make any excuse not to pay something if you can figure out a way around it.

I don't know whose figures are exact, but everything you give here seems to be shot down somewhere else.

Japanese who use the health care 14 times a here have to pay 30% every time they go. So if you use less, how are you paying for them?

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Noborito, it's nothing personal about it. Just VERY frustrating!

There are never honest facts in community discussion, nnly honest opinions.

Which is fine, except the BBS's say one thing, and the independent bloggers say something else. Then other people set up foundations for their own agendas. Who do you believe? If it weren't for the regular news reporters, who aren't always 100% by any mans, who would give us the story?

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Patrick:

Hoofin has this up at his site.

http://hoofin.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/nic_guide_to_residence_tax1.pdf

I don't know why Nagoya makes it so hard to get this.

The woman in the xample makes 5 million yen and paid just 140,500 residence tax.

Then, he has this one for a single person making 6 million yen:

http://hoofin.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/japan-tax-600man-yen-example.png

Where is the 50% tax?

Who is right?

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

I don't know how you are figuring the final number though, Patrick.

You are just putting out gross tax rates without saying what the exclusions are. It isn't a matter of "finding plenty of exclusions". The government has stated ones for your earned income, the insurances you pay, your family, etc.

No one is paying 14% of their income to the NHI unless they took a bit hit to salary. It is based on prior year income. Any search you do you will find a number like 8 or 8 1/2% of taxable.

I will send to Hoofin and ask if he would include the Nagoya information sheet on his site.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

That link doesn't get you right there, either. It's the NIC Guide to Residence Tax if you Google it.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Here is a better link: http://www.nic-nagoya.or.jp/en/canyouhelpme/NIC_guide_to_residence_tax.pdf

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Well, I don't know about the website figures. But any internet research shows that the national and local taxes are nothing like what the people who don't want to pay say they are.

Here's one. The City of Nagoya explains how residents tax (f1at 10%) on 5,000,000 yen income is just 140,000 yen.

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:w2d_QgFYMwgJ:www.nic-nagoya.or.jp/en/canyouhelpme/NIC_guide_to_residence_tax.pdf+Japan+resident%27s+tax+flat+10%25&hl=en&sig=AFQjCNFQg7CkxgiVfty5bXo2FG5QGue1YA

It says: "Residence Tax has one flat rate of 10%; it goes to your local governments and is divided 60:40 between your city and prefecture. All the key numbers are on your income tax withholding statement which you received from your place of employment in January. An example statement and explanation is on the NIC website."

So if a 10% flat tax turns out to be 2.8% of someone's gross, a lot of the other numbers batted about here must be equally off.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

The second of the two things:

The new health and labor minister was voted in specifically to fix the social insurance mess. So all the Japanese are going to be getting prodded about what they are on or not.

Immigration, when they start asking, are clearly going to point this out about how everyone in Japan is being asked these things. They just had this big election.

They won't get their 2 years back enrollment if you get kicked out of the country. But the whole purpose of the Free Choicers is to get out of the rule, with some excuses about having taken care of that already or some such.

It won't fly.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Again, there are two things going on.

One is that the Immigration people are going to ask about your health insurance. Will you lose your visa over it? Probably not. But it will be one lonely cry if for some reason you do. More likely, you'll have a mess because you're not in the right program. So you might as well be in what you need to be in now.

ThonTaddeo above mentions the consumption tax (5%). But all countries have this. In Australia, it's 10%. The U.S. has something called "state sales taxes" which are usually 6% to 8%. So unless you teach English in Borneo, you are going to have that one.

Patrick Smash says the base income tax in Japan is 20%. No way. National tax rates start at 5%. Only at higher incomes do you see 20% (8 million yen?) or more. There is a large exclusion that you get, by formula, as a deduction. It rises as income rises.

Resident's tax is a flat 10% of the taxable---the income reported after deductions.

SIA website has 14.96% out there (as 149.96 per 1000) as a total pension rate for the shakai hoken --- split 50% between employer and employee. It is the two years ago rate. Now it's 15.7%. In America, it's 15.3%, split 50-50 between employer and employee.

No health insurance takes 15% of your pretax salary here.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

OK here is an estimate of the taxes on 3,000,000 yen, from the same blog as before:

http://hoofin.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/japan-300man-en-example.png

I was too low. I said 15%, it is more like 16%.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

Noborito, I strongly think your facts about the taxes are totally wrong.

Someone making 250,000 yen a month won't be paying 50% of their income (125,000 a month) in taxes and insurances. At best, 37,500 (15%). Where are you getting 50%?

If you are paying 8,000 a month to Global Health for full coverage, it's because you aren't paying the progressive rates in NHI. You are free riding the system where the other people pay much more to subsidize the prices to you.

Japanese physiology is no different than anyone else's. So the idea that the medical system is designed for "Japanese" and not for all ill people is quite a stretch. The system is designed for everyone.

You may have language barriers, but you would have those even if Global Health insures you, unless they are paying for an accompanying translator.

50% taxes? That's nonsense.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

noborito - I've totally lost you. No one making 25 man a month would be paying 50% in taxes and social insurance. That's just plain wrong. At best, 15-20%, just like any other country.

Unless you are talking about third world countries.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

I am getting this information from the Hoofin website.

There are two things going on. One is this added checking about what kind of insurance you have.

The other is the fact that the new election with Hatoyama means that all the Japanese will be facing changes in the always the way things have been category.

Labor and Health Minister Nagatsuma is getting seven times the previous pension budget to bring all the records up to standard, and also to cross check everyone else's.

Hoofin to You says, going forward, the health and pension departments are going to be all over the Japanese regardless.

So the expatriates and the Free Choice Foundations are arguing an old argument. Everything in Japan is being brought up to a new standard. It's no surprise this will impact the foreigner community.

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Posted in: Health insurance gets more complicated with new visa law See in context

This whole matter of opening up the shakai hoken to foreigners has been tossed around for too many years now.

This guy had some interesting things to say about the private insurers and what Ronald Kessler is up to: http://hoofin.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/getting-your-money-back-from-vivavida-global-health-interglobal-if-you-are-required-to-take-japanese-national-health-insurance/

He seems to feel that if you are forced into your local program for the 2 years of back installments, you should try to get your money back from the private insurers.

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