WhiteHawk comments

Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

I do not know the facts of this case, but I certainly can't accept the views of someone whose credibility is so low...

"I don't know the facts, but I know you're wrong." Great attitude. How could you not know about this? It was in the news... oh wait, it probably wasn't covered by your favorite pathologically-biased news sources.

Two members of the New Black Panthers stood outside a polling place in Philadelphia in during the 2008 election, one of them brandishing a "billy club", and intimidated voters. Which is illegal. Do you seriously believe that they were there to intimidate voters into voting for McCain/Palin? Or to intimidate voters into voting their conscience? Seriously?

This case I am familiar with. On the video of the incident, Gladney is shown standing up and talking without a scratch on him.

Do you have a link for that video? Because the one I saw was too dark to make anything out. Or it could have been my monitor. In any case, I was in an accident once where I didn't have a scratch on me - except for a broken leg. I was standing up and talking afterwards too, but I still had to go to the hospital and get treated for my broken leg. Gladney had to be treated at a hospital too, didn't he?

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

You can't be seriously suggesting that these people still maintain the values and goals of the Weather Underground.

You have proof they don't? For example, I'm still waiting for Ayers to renounce his ways.

The Tea Party is FAR more in the meanstream of right-wing, conservative politics than the Weather Underground, Black Panthers, or SLA was ever tied to liberal Democratic politics -- by an exponential magnitude. It's rather pathetic that people have to be so dishonest as to try to portray that otherwise.

So? What is the Tea Party's history of violence? Did a Tea Party activist bite the finger off of someone he was arguing with? No, just the opposite. Besides, who are members of the Weather Underground, Black Panthers, New Black Panthers, Earth Liberation Front, SEIU, Symbionese Liberation Army, et.c, going to vote for ? Republicans? Tea Party candidates? No, it would be the same party and the same people mainstream Democrats vote for. Why? Because their priorities and goals align almost perfectly. How on earth you can deny the blatantly obvious is... I can't even say it here.

It's amusing how you're trying to set different standards of evidence for your side of the political aisle and mine. I suspect that for you, only an official order on official White House stationary signed by Obama in his own DNA-matching blood will be sufficient evidence for you of the connection between left-wing Democrats and left-wing belligerents. But you already consider the Tea Party to be violent, even though there hasn't been a single incidence of violence. Jonah Goldberg recently wrote in his column (Where the media leads, we don't follow) about just such a mindset.

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Posted in: Thousands gather for Arizona girl's funeral See in context

I will post my response there.

I'm looking forward to it.

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Posted in: Silence greets calls for changes in U.S. gun laws See in context

Unlise you believe the crap you see on American TV.

Thank-whoever you subscribe to that this murderous nutter didn't get his hands on a AK or an Uzi, neither of which would be difficult to procure in the US.

Oh, the irony! ;) Do you believe every anti-gun myth you read on the internet?

At least the crank that opened fire in Fort Hood was surrounded by people that were not only heavily armed, but trained in deadly force.

Hasan held his shooting spree in the Soldier Readiness Center (a medical facility). Soldiers were unarmed, as weapons are not allowed in that area. That's why he was shot by an Army civilian police officer and a civilian police officer from nearby Killeen Texas. Hasan was surrounded by unarmed soldiers, some of whom died trying to take him down while they themselves were unarmed. That's why he was able to kill 13 people and wound another 30.

If I were a Leftist, this would be where would I claim that any credibility you once had has now evaporated, and I can self-justify ignoring everything else you've ever posted. Which is what another Leftist claimed of me on the very first thread about this tragic shooting incident. The difference is, that person didn't agree with what I posted and offered no facts to back their opinion up.

It's certainly not the first time that's happened to me here on JT. Even some of my regular debate opponents have tried that tactic. I just wanted to point that out, in case y'all start feeling superior about yourselves again.

So I'm not going to cherry-pick one thing you've posted and try to completely discredit everything you've ever written, Madverts. But I would prefer that you do some research before posting on documented events.

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

I call hanging Palin in effigy was a lot worse.

Don't forget all the times that Bush was hanged or burned in effigy at left-wing protests. I wonder if yabits will counter that by bringing up the posters of Obama as Hitler. Of course, it was okay when the Left gave Bush the same treatment... ;)

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Posted in: Thousands gather for Arizona girl's funeral See in context

There has to be a much greater firewall that stands between the mentally and violently crazy getting guns than the local sheriff.

Like what, exactly?

The fact that some far right-wingers would absolve the NRA from any complicity shows how far they have strayed from rational thinking ability.

Exactly what did the NRA do to put a gun in Loughner's hands? No more of your vague "promoting a gun culture" nonsense, tell me exactly how the NRA is complicit in this.

The NRA, in fact, supported the legislation which keeps people who have violent records and restraining orders against them from buying guns. Why can't you recognize that?

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Posted in: Republicans oust Steele, pick Priebus to head party See in context

Yeah that's why you guys have no credibility. From day one you guys were openely actually hoping for Obama to fail. Pure partisan foolishness never really seen before.

Not since Nixon, anyway. Or Reagan. Or Bush 43. And unfortunately, Obama has succeeded in getting some of his policies passed, which has (as predicted by the right) only made things worse for the country.

Like it or not he was elected by a majority of Americans, and should be allowed to carry out at least the four year mandate he's already got with out the childish wailing from the disgruntled extreme right.

Mandate? How come every time a Democrat is elected, he has a "mandate"? Even Clinton, although he never got more than 46% of the vote, was considered to have a "mandate".

In any case, you do realize that we had elections in the house and senate this past November, right? You did see the American people reject Obama's "mandate" and over turn the house and remove the Democrats' super-majority in the senate in order to stop Obama's "mandate", right?

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

Which you can't provide since they're mainly in your imagination.

There is not a shred of evidence that liberals and liberal Democrats have done worse.

He has provided examples, as have others. But you nuance and parse your comrades to innocence, then parse and nuance the right into guilt. It's second nature to you, like a defensive coping mechanism.

There is nothing remotely comparable coming from rallies of Democrats and liberals.

You're quite right. Republicans don't riot at G20 meetings. I don't remember any Republicans being arrested for conspiring to bomb a Democrat convention (2008).

But then you probably don't consider Democrat Congressman Paul Kanjorski saying Florida Governor Rick Scott should be shot as violent rhetoric. “Put him against the wall and shoot him.”

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

Anyone who lives in a world where the Symbionese Liberation Army is somehow tied to Democratic politics would understandably fail to see any of this.

Well, you and several other Leftists are trying to tie Lougner's actions to Palin and the Tea Party. The difference is, the SLA (and the WU, NBP, ELF, SEIU) and the DNC are on the same side of the political spectrum. The NBP, ELF and SEIU specifically work (violently, I might add) to further DNC policies and goals. Who does that on the right?

In the eyes of the American justice system, Ayers is a free citizen.

So is O.J. Simpson. The difference, Ayers admits his guilt.

That is yet another example of the polarizing rhetoric used by Palin and others that is so hurting the United States.

President Obama referred to Republicans as the enemy. That's not polarizing?

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

Thank you for the laugh. What do any of those groups have to do with liberal Democratic politics?

Quite a bit. You did see the part where six members of the Weather Underground worked on an Obama campaign group, right? And where the New Black Panthers got a pass for voter intimidation by a Democrat AG even thought they were caught on videotape, right? And you did see where Obama-supporting SEIU members beat up Kenneth Gladney, a black conservative at a town hall meeting, right? You've not blocking these facts from entering your conscious awareness, are you?

And ordinary, civil discourse becomes somehow utopian and unreachable in HER mind, and the recourse to violence quite natural and understandable, based on historical precedent.

And in YOUR mind, we either have civil discourse or violence, and there's nothing in between. Wow. You need to stop seeing everything in black and white, and open your mind to shades of gray. Or maybe you need to read some of the uncivil posting on the Democratic Underground site.

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Posted in: Silence greets calls for changes in U.S. gun laws See in context


If all it takes is 1 shot to take an intruder down than there is NO need to reload.

The most popular handgun round is the 9mm. Loughner used a 9mm. Military troops under the NATO umbrella use the 9mm. The American military uses the 9mm.

Pope John Paul II was shot five times with 9mm rounds in the attempt on his life in 1981. One round doesn't always work. And then there's the issue of missing the target in all the excitement, which does happen from time to time. Still, even I don't see the need for a 30-round magazine outside of the military.

Plus, hearing a shotgun being cocked can work well as a deterrent.

If you have to load a cartridge, you're not prepared.

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Posted in: Silence greets calls for changes in U.S. gun laws See in context


Some scumbag drug dealer comes in needing a gun for a quick job, sure they have those guns too, OK?

The NRA does not support that.

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Posted in: Thousands gather for Arizona girl's funeral See in context

The ones who are most complicit in this tragedy are the ones who make it possible for the Loughners in our society to obtain the means to mete out deadly force on the scale he did.

Wow, you're almost agreeing with me. Except you think the NRA is complicit, and I say it's the sheriff who didn't do his job properly.

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Posted in: Republicans oust Steele, pick Priebus to head party See in context

So Steele is to become the leader of the Tea Party now

Where did you get that?

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

(Yes, that's right: hardcore supporters of Palin are making those tweets and posts in order to give their side a leg to stand on. Remaining completely anonymous, they have everything to gain politically, and absolutely nothing to lose.)

Ah, the old Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. I'm pretty sure the FBI can find out who posts tweets and such.

The far right wants things both ways: to malign the left as a bunch of non-violent, gun-hating, weak, peacenik, Kumbaya-singing tree-huggers AND, when it suits their purposes, to portray them as more prone to violence than the the far right is.

I've never portrayed the Left as non-violent. Weak on national security and defense, yes. But non-violent? What with the Weather Underground, the Black Panthers, the New Black Panthers, the Earth Liberation Front, the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the SIEU, just to name a few, I don't see where the Left can be accused of being non-violent.

And I don't understand why some of the people who have defended Palin's remarks appear to support her stand that violence could be a justifiable response to such rhetoric.

Where did she say "violence could be a justifiable response to such rhetoric"? Exactly when did she take that stand?

But we've experienced the co-leader carrying the Republican Party banner levelling the charge that her opponent "pals around with terrorists," prompting her supporters in the crowd to yell out "Kill him!" in a kind of lynch-mob frenzy.

William Ayers indeed was a terrorist. "Guilty as heel, free as a bird. What a country." Remember that? When asked if he regretted setting bombs and killing people, he said "I feel we didn't do enough." Remember that? Not only did Ayers support Obama from the beginning, six Weather Underground members worked for an Obama campaign group. And at no time has Obama renounced Ayers or disowned him. He did that to Jeremiah Wright when he became inconvenient, but not Ayers.

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Posted in: Silence greets calls for changes in U.S. gun laws See in context

Is anybody calling to simply enforce the laws that they have already?

Me. Am I alone on this?

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Posted in: Thousands gather for Arizona girl's funeral See in context

No comments here from the NRA types.

I've been commenting on this event all along. Did you not see my comments that Loughner wouldn't have been able to legally buy a gun had the sheriff not talked his previous stalking victims out of pressing charges? All it takes is one restraining order or one instance of being arrested for threatening violence and that person cannot legally buy a gun.

And you know what? The NRA has no problem with that. The laws were already in place. They just weren't enforced. Ironically, this time it was laws about threatening violence that weren't enforced.

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Posted in: Ariz investigators say there were warning signs on day of shooting See in context

Madverts, just because you hate Limbaugh does not mean he incites hate. Unless you want to admit that when you express criticism of a right-wing politician or their policies, that you are trying to incite hatred of them. You can't have it both ways.

I never said Limbaugh is my hero. But he certainly doesn't deserve to be blamed for a shooting committed by someone who never listened to him.

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

Also, we have another Republican Congressman's staff-member saying, a matter of a few months ago, "If ballots don't work, bullets will." Again, very prophetic.

Staff member. Wow.

That has nothing to do with President Obama. None of his people ordered that.

I guess none of his people bused in the folks from Chicanos Unidos Arizona either. Sure. Nor did any of his people put a stop to it.

Let me get this straight: Palin is actually claiming that "pundits and journalists" are trying to incite violence? How is it that the words of those who do not support the far right wing can somehow incite violence, while out of the other sides of their collective mouths completely deny that none of the far right wing's rhetoric could not have done the same?

There is no evidence whatsoever that the lunatic shooter paid any attention to Palin. In fact, according to people who actually knew him, he didn't even watch the news. And "those who do not support the far right wing" most certainly can incite violence, and have been doing so since the beginning of politics. It has been very well documented since the 30's especially.

like the one who specifically mentioned "second amendment remedies"

Mentioned, yes. Supported, no. In fact, she specifically said that she didn't want that to happen

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context


One just couldn't help but fault people for cheering when they heard the encouraging news about Representative Giffords.

But that's not the only time people applauded, was it? No, as you admitted later:

Wow. A speaker gets introduced and receives applause. How inappropriate.

At a memorial service? A local professor? Yes, I do think that is inappropriate. Why would one applaud a professor speaking at a memorial service?

There is no evidence of this, beyond the claims of Palin's self-serving entourage. What we know is that neither the FBI nor any other law enforcement agency has been contacted to investigate any of the alleged "threats." That in itself speaks volumes.

Do you really know that? And just how do you know that? What about the posts on her FB page, and the collection of tweets posted on YouTube?

I believe that it's important to point out that the man who targeted Representative Giffords had been stalking her for some time. And that Representative Giffords herself went on record with her concerns about the gun-related symbols along with the message "Time to take a stand" on Palin's political action website.

"Some time", as in at least since 2007, before Palin was known beyond Alaska. She didn't notice the DailyKos campaign ad with the bullseye symbols on her district that was running at the same time? Are you suggesting that "Time to take a stand" is supposed to be a call for violence? Seriously?

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Posted in: Shot U.S. congresswoman makes progress See in context

As the funeral began, Greene’s family held hands and paused in a moment of silence under the large American flag recovered from Ground Zero after the 9/11 attacks, then escorted the small brown casket into the church as little girls about her age cried.

I'm sure there were many adults crying as well. I know I would have.

They’ve helped her sit up and dangle her legs from the bed, and she is able to lift her legs on command.

That's very good news.

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Posted in: Silence greets calls for changes in U.S. gun laws See in context

From the article:

Rep Peter King, R-NY, is drafting a bill supported by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg that would prohibit people from carrying guns within 1,000 feet of the president, members of Congress or federal judges.

Most Americans don't know who their representatives are, much less those of other states. And federal judges? Forget it. Americans recognize actors, singers and game show contestants. They wouldn't know their rep or judges on sight. What a waste of time and money.

The irony is, the event that legislators are using as a catalyst for their restrictions would have been avoided if the local sheriff had done his job. Instead, he talked the victims of Loughner's threats out of filing charges. Anyone who has a restraining order against them or an arrest record for violent actions (domestic violence, making death threats, etc.) cannot legally purchase a gun. Loughner would have had the record to prevent his purchase had Dupnik simply enforced the law.

Typically, I say that America doesn't have lax gun laws, just lax gun law enforcement. But in this case, there were other laws where the enforcement was lax. What's the point of writing more laws if the ones you already have aren't being enforced?

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Posted in: Ariz investigators say there were warning signs on day of shooting See in context

"Sheriff’s Department and community-college officials in Pima County are refusing to release a wide range of public documents about the man charged in Saturday’s shooting rampage that left six dead and more than a dozen wounded.

"The Pima County Sheriff’s Department and Pima Community College have declined to release documents that could shed light on run-ins they had with 22-year-old Jared Loughner in the months prior to the shooting."

To me, this is more substantive and more telling than a bunch of speculation about gunsights and bullseyes, the market value of the parents' home, etc.

In cases like this, it's not uncommon for there to be warning signs well before the incident. While Dupnik appears to be more a politician than a law enforcement officer, I hope that the Obama administration checks its penchant for party favoritism and not protect Dupnik on this. It's becoming increasingly apparent that six people are dead and 14 are wounded because he intentionally didn't do his job. Loughner is apparently insane, so there are limits to his responsibility for his actions. But incompetence is not afforded the same considerations.

And guess who stood up and applauded when Obama said we shouldn't point blame at others during the memorial/pep rally last night? Sheriff Dupnik. The same man who started blaming political rhetoric and Rush Limbaugh before the blood had dried on the ground.


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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

Oh look, the article has changed again!

Is it just me, or does this memorial seem more like an Obama pep rally?

"Wellstone" is now a verb.

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Posted in: Ariz investigators say there were warning signs on day of shooting See in context

He, to use his words, "assassinated" a woman that he knew to be a Jew AND an elected official of the Federal government.

She's not dead. In fact, she's recovering.

Don't let the press distract you either by telling you that Palin set it all up or that it was totally random. Both are false.

In two other threads, you certainly seem to make the case that "the right" or Palin set this all up.

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

Hmmmm. When I posted my previous comment, the article was about Obama delivering a memorial speech. Now it's about Obama visiting Giffords and others at the hospital.

I can't wait to see what the article is about in a few minutes.

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Posted in: Man due in court over Tucson shooting rampage See in context

He killed people for their political beliefs and political positions.

A point you keep repeating but have yet to prove.

Apparently, he also did it because she was Jewish, which does not bother anyone posting here in the least.

Your proof being what, exactly?

He targeted Jews, politicians and judges.

You keep forgetting about the girl. Did he target a 9-year-old girl?

Turner Diaries.

So I looked up The Turner Diaries on Wikipedia. Pretty disturbing stuff. Don't see how it relates to this shooting, however. Was it on Loughner's favorite book list?

The simple fact of the matter is that it is a political assassination. Jared wrote that himself.

He's a nutter. He asked her a nonsensical question back in 2007 and she blew him off. According to everyone we've heard from in direct contact with Loughner, he hated her and became more obsessed with her after that. Doesn't sound political to me; it sounds crazy.

I would be just as infuriated if someone took a shot at Boehner, but we both know nobody ever will. He is not on Palin's hit list.

I've liked Palin since her first national speech after McCain picked her. I've defended her when Leftists accused her of everything from shooting moose from helicopters to rigging the vote on a "reality" show to - and even I didn't see this coming - ordering political assassinations. I know a lot of other people who like and politically support her. I even know quite a few women who think her husband is hot. But I don't know anybody that would kill someone for her.

Yeah. But why do I think she would not even try?

I suspect the answer comes from within you.

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Posted in: Man due in court over Tucson shooting rampage See in context


I never said any such thing. Ever.

You've been focusing on Palin from the beginning, all the while deliberately ignoring or downplaying rhetoric from the Left.

The guy was a skinhead.

Looks like he also shaved his eyebrows. Syd Barrett did the same thing. Did that make him a skinhead too? No, that was a sign he was crazy. I doubt Loughner knows what a skinhead is.

No. I have quotes from people who knew him, shown above, saying he thought the government controlled people too much.

Pro-choice proponents say the same thing. Does that make them right-wing too?


A characteristic of the Left. Who supports Israel? The American Right. Who props up, rationalizes and fawns over the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah? The American Left. Look up the activities of Code Pink and Cynthia McKinney.


Which Loughner referred to as "the second constitution". He prefers the Articles of Constitution, according to his rants.

You will be Googling all day for that one, or does throwing a shoe at a G8 or WTO meeting count?

Is rioting and burning cars good enough for you? How about pro-Obama SEIU thugs beating a black conservative at a town hall gathering?

Mein Kampf reading

Hitler was a Leftist. National Socialist Party, remember? Supported by Leftist academics and writers in the U.S., remember?

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Posted in: Man due in court over Tucson shooting rampage See in context


Lest we forget, let's remember what those liberal pinkos over at the US Secret Service had to say about right-wing rhetoric, specifically from miss sarah palin:

And just what did she say about Obama? That Obama "palled around" with terrorists.

Which was true. William Ayers indeed was a terrorist. "Guilty as hell, free as a bird. What a country.", remember? He's supported Obama from the beginning. Six of the eleven Weather Underground "radicals" (terrorists) have served on a campaign committee for Obama.

Nobody is supposed to be angry about that?

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentionally encouraged white supremacists to go even further.

And the connection is...?

The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.

...and also coinciding with their increasing prominence on the national stage. Hardly conclusive.

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Posted in: Obama, at Arizona memorial service, says polarized nation needs healing See in context

I hope he gives a very respectful and eloquent speech. Those lost deserve nothing less.

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