Uncertainty remains over Japan-Britain-Italy fighter program

The UK defence industry has always relied on Middle Eastern cash. Without it, this will go the way of HS2.

Starmer cannot plead poverty and implement cuts in the UK and then spend big on military kit. There is plenty of Europe between the UK and Russia and Japan is a long way away. If push comes to shove with Russia, we have nukes. We won't win, but neither will they. Given climate change, there may not be much to kiss goodbye to anyway.

Post Brexit, Britain cannot afford to play top flight geopolitical games anymore. It can punch above its weight in terms of tech and innovation, but someone else will have to foot the bill.

At the very least, the project will have to spend the next few years in wishlist mode, with low cost work being done. It may also have to be an evolutionary design, rather than a revolutionary one.

UK has gone to the dogs. Many social problems just like USA. And just like USA, the politicians care only about their wallets and what their bosses in Israel say.

The UK can’t build jack. So long as the NHS and the triple lock sucks up all the money. So long as the people think they can get everything on the cheap, via low taxation then they deserve more pot holes, more nhs cuts, more immigrants (cause that’s the cheap option) less dentistry, more crappy services, more rats as councils reduce rubbish collection, and army that can’t fill up a soccer stadium, a Navy that’s a former shadow of itself and can’t even put two carrier groups together, (probably selling one, as usual) an airforce that’s pathetic compared to some other compatible nations. A railway that’s crumbling and that’s before anyone wants to say the secret word Brexit. The miracle cure!!! Now it’s the sick man of Europe again. The 1970s. And most young people can’t even afford a home now. Maybe the focus on the financial markets, was a mistake and the people really don’t care about the FTSE100 but can they get a doctor, are the roads ok, can I buy a home. And they all bought into the austerity BS from Cameron. You gotta pay for stuff. And that includes the new fighter.(I expect the UK to dump it) just like the TSR2. And UKs tilting train only to be perfected by Italy. The UK is a nation of kebab shops, junk food and fat people.

What this article doesn't report is that the current cost estimate for the development and fielding of 270 GCAP fighters across three nations is 120 billion pounds, a sum UK cannot afford and is looking to bail. This is why Saudi funding was so critical to GCAP's success, but Mohammad Bin Salman was insulted by Kishida's refusal in person and has opened to join Korea's KF-21 based 6th gen fighter program instead and the negotiation is in an advanced stage, so the Saudi card for GCAP has left the station. Koreans on the other hand are throwing everything they got to get Saudis onboard their programs, going as far as exporting 500 km range Chunmoo MLRS(the Korean equivalent of HIMARS) and promising to make the 900 km version via local assembly in Saudi Arabia to get around the MTCR treaty. Saudis are happy with how the Koreans are bending backward to appease them and appears to sign onto the Korean 6th gen fighter program over GCAP.

The 900 km Chunmoo version was critical because it would allow Saudi Arabia to directly bombard Tehran.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/on-defence-labour-is-either-being-dishonest-or-ignorant-3260162

GCAP will be expensive, costing each partner country around £40bn.

https://www.kedglobal.com/aerospace-defense/newsView/ked202408200007

South Korea to extend export missile range from 300 km to 500 km

Once the DAPA gives the final approval, defense firms are expected to hike missile ranges by reducing warhead weight

South Korea has decided to extend the range of missiles for export to 500 kilometers from the current 300 km after accepting requests to do so from client countries in the Middle East.

With the DAPA’s final approval, it would also be possible for South Korea to export missiles with a range of 900 km, similar to the KN-23 North Korea has exported to Russia, he said.

Multinations project usually will ending in failure. The "MBT70" tank project in 70s was such of a kind. Britian under the Labor party will pause most of the defense project and Britian is in a very serious fiscal difficulty. Well, Japan your bet has lost or maybe causing you much much more money than you can afford this fighter jet.

Only the big three: US, Russia, China will be capable to finish their sixth generation fighter project. China will have her own new fighter jet to replace Sukhois or J20s in 2030-2035 time frames. Because a single country project don't have to deal with different demands from different countries , budget is not a problem too !

@elephant200

Only the big three: US, Russia, China will be capable to finish their sixth generation fighter project.

You can count Russia out. Russia can't even build Su-57 in sufficient quantity now.

elephant200Today  01:38 pm JST

Multinations project usually will ending in failure. The "MBT70" tank project in 70s was such of a kind. Britian under the Labor party will pause most of the defense project and Britian is in a very serious fiscal difficulty. Well, Japan your bet has lost or maybe causing you much much more money than you can afford this fighter jet. 

partly true. The Panavia Tornado was a great success, as was the Jaguar. We also developed the euro fighter along with the European heavy lift transport. The eurocopter was also developed. I think the big problem now is the UK and others can’t afford mega high tech expensive fighters on their own. Although maybe mission creep and political cost cutting gets involved and inflation kicks in too. Although Saab Gripen and the Rafale are good examples of not needing all things stealthy, and finding export markets. Eventually politics gets involved. Maybe in today’s air wars the airforces can’t afford to lose something so expensive so maybe we need something cheaper we can lose,replace and use with stand off weapons. Even the Royal Navy and France couldn’t agree on a new carrier so the French withdrew and the Brits carried on and now have some pathetic excuse of “we can’t afford it”. Well military spending was almost 6%of GDP in the Cold War, then cut to 5% then4% and now a pathetic 2%. Then we sold off the old smaller carriers. To cut things even further. The peace dividend was spent on the NHS and other stuff. Although I’m not sure what! Now defence spending is to increase to 2.5%. Japan spends less but their navy is much better than the RN.

and no the UK isn’t punching above its weight. If the US looks at the Brits as 3rd tier now.

Imagine all the taxpayer money Japan could waste on a fighter program. This is the American and UK way. Let your infrastructure, transportation, and industrial base deteriorate while you lavish money on military profiteers.

@abe, I can sympathies with most of your points, but you missed out the police are super stretched, as 20.000 police officers were cut from the budget years ago, needless to say crime has gone up, the court system is crumbling as that's been reduced to a skeleton crew, jails are overflowing, last week thousands were released early, the UK is spending 6 million pounds a day to home asylum seekers, yet we can look after our elderly and sick,or homeless people, Mr PM has got a monumental hill to climb and some very very tough decisions where to cut tax spending

I think they will take note of the current "high tempo" conflict and attempt to cut costs across the board. More unmanned air craft flown remotely and or with AI to supplement more expensive manned aircraft produced in lower numbers. The expendable craft able to be cheaply and quickly manufactured locally in high volumes.

Supply chains for specialized components in very high tech equipment from aircraft to armoured vehicles can be unworkable in times of conflict. Russia having issues with using western supplied components in its jets and tanks making it difficult to build now it faces sanctions from the nations it originally sourced the components from.

Drones growing in stature will continue for some time to take funding for research and production. Additionally US and others looking for much cheaper missiles that can be turned out in high volumes, or fast tracking laser research.

It seems UK could suggest incorporating the GCAP into AUKUS second tier to get additional funding and input from the US and Australia who could also become customers for small numbers of these aircraft. Spread the load.

One important thing to note is the changes in attitude resulting in the drawn out high temp conflict in Ukraine and Russia. Old doctrines are no longer feesable or the best option and new ideas are changing how nations fight. And some older ideas have returned like the artillery duels being fought in Ukraine that have drawn out for years, reminicent of WWI tactics.

GCAP will change between now and fruition, that much is certain.

You can count Russia out. Russia can't even build Su-57 in sufficient quantity now.

Any evidence to back up this claim?

Brian WhewaySep. 21  04:45 pm JST

@abe, I can sympathies with most of your points, but you missed out the police are super stretched, as 20.000 police officers were cut from the budget years ago, needless to say crime has gone up, the court system is crumbling as that's been reduced to a skeleton crew, jails are overflowing, last week thousands were released early, the UK is spending 6 million pounds a day to home asylum seekers, yet we can look after our elderly and sick,or homeless people, Mr PM has got a monumental hill to climb and some very very tough decisions where to cut tax spending

Oh my goodness. I forgot that. Thanks for adding that reminder. But Sunak et al could spin it and say they added 20,000 extra police. Laughable isn’t it. Maybe we could add, not enough prisons or social housing either. The PM has an incredible mountain to climb but I think if truth be told, the media will be screaming blue murder when taxes have to go up. Came and eat it was the British public want and want to blame all the problems on someone else. The EU, immigration (sorry illegal immigration) and a few small boats, and we haven’t even touched on a broken system to deal with legitimate claims and deportation of those that shouldn’t be there. I think she should increase capital gains taxes on landlords but give it an escalator, then some might sell up to their tenants, and lock in a reduced capital gain tax. They’ve sucked up loads of homes away from families.

BellflowerSep. 21 03:08 pm JST

Imagine all the taxpayer money Japan could waste on a fighter program. This is the American and UK way. Let your infrastructure, transportation, and industrial base deteriorate while you lavish money on military profiteers.

Building weapons at least provides jobs and training. Still 1.2% of GDP Japan is spending on defense, though.

The Labour government claims it has inherited a fiscal black hole.

.

is it as massive as the one the Conservatives was handed in 2008, when Labour was kicked out ?

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Does not matter which side is in government, once they are out, the other side walks in and make changes and screw things up.

.

Deals made by the previous party are torn up and new ones made with the rest of the world.

This makes dealing with the UK a possibly unstable as an agreement could be thrown away by the next party in power.

I will wait and see what happens this time Labour is in control.

Maybe they will do a good job.

.

You can all stop laughing at my last sentence.

Labour will cancel it. I mean, they're hell-bent on stealing money from pensioners, claiming that there's a huge 'black hole' in public finances. The truth is, of course, that they're just funneling cash to the unions and all their mates in the bloated, feckless and useless public sector. They won't be able to afford much else (apart from the inevitable aid to Ukraine for all eternity, which they can't escape from, having told us for years that this war is somehow and existential crisis for Europe. What cobblers!

Post Brexit, Britain cannot afford to play top flight geopolitical games anymore.

GBR48 just cannot help himself! Any opportunity to take a swipe against Brexit! Get help, mate.

Post Brexit, Britain cannot afford to play top flight geopolitical games anymore.

Lord DartmouthToday  04:18 am JST

GBR48 just cannot help himself! Any opportunity to take a swipe against Brexit! Get help, mate.

I think Brexit has indeed hurt the British economy. Farmers, fisherman, businesses took a hit, If you lose billions in revenue, those billions (if you want to spend it) will have to be stolen from peter to pay paul. Or you can tax people more, widen VAT to encompass things that are VAT exempt, or you can ask people to people a nominal fee, for a service they use. FREE motorways at the point of usage , FREE NHS at the point of delivery. How about reducing the amount people can save. If money is being saved then it isn't being circulated in the UK enconomy as they invest in the S&P500 or some Global fund. One thing for sure is, BREXIT was not cost free. We thought the EU were going to come begging to the UK. But sadly you can't use the golf club, the bar, and the car park if you leave the golf club. Yes, you save on Club fees, but you're only pushing those costs elsewhere.And most importantly, yoiu can't get to play.

The U..K.'s former government, the Sunak administration, participated in this joint project seemingly without consulting Congress. 

There are a lot of constitutional obstacles on the part of Japan that must be cleared.

And so, it was very strange that Sunak had signed the joint project with Japan nonchalantly without　consulting U.K. Congress.