U.S., Canada warships pass through Taiwan Strait

Another provocation and affront to public decency.

Important to also observe Taiwan province in a non-UN recognized entity.

There is an obvious difference in reporting of the passing through of the Taiwan Strait.

Taiwan's defense ministry said Monday the U.S. and Canadian ships travelled "from south to north" of the strait and the situation in the surrounding sea and airspace "remained normal".

China said Monday that the U.S. and Canadian actions had disrupted "peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait".

So when China enters another country's territory, it's not a provocation.

China has no shame!!

Important to observe that China doesn't observe UN Convention on Law of the Sea decisions. Also not really important, but we observed that you recognized Taiwan as a country in your past posts, which means you know the reality (although maybe not supposed to say it out loud).

Another provocation and affront to public decency.

Important to also observe Taiwan province in a non-UN recognized entity.

International lanes require no one's permission.

Nor does Taiwan province observe mentioned UNCLOS 'ruling'. Explain that one away.

Meaningless. If America hand any balls it would end the one china policy and recognize Taiwan as independent country. And so should Japan.

Taiwan was not involved in the case. Only China and the Philippines.

Nor does Taiwan province observe mentioned UNCLOS 'ruling'. Explain that one away.

Excellent. Good to see free countries exercising their right of passage in international waters.

sensitive passage

Learn some history. Taiwan is an island province of China. The defeated KMT government fled to the island. The USA interfered in the Chinese civil war when Mainland China was weak by supporting the corrupt and failed KMT regime.

So when China enters another country's territory, it's not a provocation.

JJEToday 02:32 pm JST

Nor does Taiwan province observe mentioned UNCLOS 'ruling'. Explain that one away.

We're on the Taiwan strait here, not the SCS.

Another provocation and affront to public decency.

You assured us up and down repeatedly that everything 12 nm from the coast was international waters. You made a big deal of it on multiple articles. So 100% legal but a provocation and an affront to public decency somehow?

Important to also observe Taiwan province in a non-UN recognized entity.

Important to observe that Taiwan has more international recognition than Russia's disgraces.

Always?Today 02:45 pm JST

Meaningless. If America hand any balls it would end the one china policy and recognize Taiwan as independent country. And so should Japan.

Fair enough, but I don't see your country being so tough.

deanzaZZRToday 03:06 pm JST

Learn some history. Taiwan is an island province of China. The defeated KMT government fled to the island. The USA interfered in the Chinese civil war when Mainland China was weak by supporting the corrupt and failed KMT regime.

The US was allowed to back the legal government of China at its request. And Taiwan is the only uncorrupted former piece of China at this point.

The PRC government is not saying that the transit is unlawful under international law only that it is provocative given current circumstances.

International lanes require no one's permission

The various islands occupied by non-UN recognized Taiwan province in the actual strait actually cover it all (I.E. it is all Beijing's property/sea by right). Anyone can ascertain this provable fact by checking a map.

deanzaZZRToday 03:11 pm JST

The PRC government is not saying that the transit is unlawful under international law only that it is provocative given current circumstances.

So 100% legal but provocative. Well, keep your imagined provocations to yourself.

JJEToday 03:13 pm JST

The various islands occupied by non-UN recognized Taiwan province in the actual strait actually cover it all (I.E. it is all Beijing's property/sea by right). Anyone can ascertain this provable fact by checking a map.

An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water, which is above water at high tide.

Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention applicable to other land territory.

Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part8.htm

China needs to do some more construction work before claiming there is a land bridge to Taiwan since ancient times.

Terrorizing civilians and disrupting commerce is a terrible policy for any government.

konjo4uToday 03:30 pm JST

Terrorizing civilians and disrupting commerce is a terrible policy for any government.

I agree, the PRC should stop doing that.

Freedom of The seas. Good on Canada and The US.

If this antagonizes the inferior Chinese, that's a bonus. Nothing but losers.

deanzaZZRToday 03:06 pm JST

Learn some history. Taiwan is an island province of China. The defeated KMT government fled to the island.

You mean, defeated in the battle for the mainland?

Taiwan has never been ruled by your beloved CCP, so it cannot be -- and clearly is not -- a "province" of the PRC.

deanzaZZRToday 03:11 pm JST

The PRC government is not saying that the transit is unlawful under international law only that it is provocative given current circumstances.

Only "provocative" if you're a hyper-paranoid, totalitarian state that wants to steal all its neighbors' territory.

GDBDToday 05:01 pm JST

Taiwan is not a country.

It clearly is in all meaningful ways. It has its own territory, political system, government, military, international relations, currency, internet and calling code, etc.

The lack of formal recognition is purely due to the pressure/threat of aggression by the totalitarian menace that is China.

As ever, the problem is China, not Taiwan.

JJEToday 05:46 pm JST

Completely different from the Aborigines and how they were shafted.

Land handovers from 2014 to the present happened in coordination with the actual residents there. Key difference corrected.

So clearly there will not be an attempt to annex the Ukrainian speaking regions of Ukraine such as Kyiv. Good to know.

GDBDToday 05:01 pm JST

Taiwan is not a country. Not even recognized by the aggressors that sent their war ships. If they really love Taiwanese people that much, just recognize it and defend it using international law. But they don’t because they are hypocrites to the least.

Peking is being obstinate by claiming a civil war is still going on after 75 years.

All the talk of freedom is total BS. They don’t have balls to face China directly because they value their wealth which would decrease if they were to battle China directly.

China will lose out, too.

They just hope someone else would do it for them. Does not matter if it is Taiwan, Japan or Philippines. Let’s see which one falls for that.

I don't know about Japan or the Philippines, but Taiwan is definitely not going under CCP control without a shot fired.

they will sell Taiwan in an instant if that ever means increasing their wealth.

Just like we did over the past 75 years?

the reason they keep sending their warship and act like a fluffer to Taiwan is coming from a bad place with the intention of holding China back so they can keep their dominance. In western minds, the moral compass always points to money.

Now let's spread some BRICS investments, amirite?

China said Monday that the U.S. and Canadian actions had disrupted "peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait".

They were no doubt traveling to fast and creating large bow wash. In future they need to travel slower so as not to disrupt peace and harmony of others also using these international waters.

Another provocation and affront to public decency.

Chinese comments and interference in lawful travel is certainly an affront to public decency.

Important to also observe Taiwan province in a non-UN recognized entity.

Important to reflect that PRC was not UN recognized between 1949 and 1971, and that meant as much then as it does now for ROC. Absolutely nothing. They remain as always, an independent country.

Always?

Meaningless. If America hand any balls it would end the one china policy and recognize Taiwan as independent country. And so should Japan.

I have been pointing out this hypocrisy for the longest time. The US wants to have its cake and eat it too .... on one hand appease Peking with their "one China" policy, and on the other hand act as if they recognized Taiwan as a country and the "one China" agreement did not exist. And the US vassal states follow this double-speak.

These two things are simply not compatible. If you want to meddle in the area, make a clear slate and say so!

ZaphodToday 06:51 pm JST

I have been pointing out this hypocrisy for the longest time. The US wants to have its cake and eat it too .... on one hand appease Peking with their "one China" policy, and on the other hand act as if they recognized Taiwan as a country and the "one China" agreement did not exist.

As I say above, the situation is caused entirely by China and its preposterous, anachronistic threat of aggression.

Taiwan would certainly have full recognition without this threat.

These two things are simply not compatible.

Welcome to international diplomacy.

If you want to meddle in the area, make a clear slate and say so!

No-one is "meddling" here. They are simply working with peaceful, free Taiwan whilst trying to avoid the totalitarian monster next door starting an enormous war.

12 nm limit. Everyone in China needs to write that on their paper 2,000 times. It is the internationally recognized limit for a country's territorial claims in water.

This limit was formally adopted as an international standard in 1958 with the Geneva Convention on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone. Currently, the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea supports this rule, and it has been ratified by more than 150 nations.

It isn't THAT difficult to understand.

China signed the treaty in 1958 - well, the ROC did.

And let's not forget that the strait's width varies from 70 to 220 nautical miles, so there's 45nm of international water there between the two countries - China and Taiwan.

This might be the last time the US can assert it's CLAIM that the waters between mainland China and the Chinese province of Taipei are 'international waters'.

When Netanyahu ATTACKS Iran for the THIRD time, and Iran defends itself, there's no way Biden isn't going to not order America's military assets in the ME to get involved in trying to protect the regime despite Iran having made clear in every possible forum that it will consider every plane, base, and ship that fires on their response as hostiles that are participating in an attack on Iran and expand its response to include them.

And any deep draft ship in the Persian Gulf has little maneuvering room to avoid incoming fire, and they are even more limited in the duration of their shielding fire than the Israeli regime itself.

This is where the different weapons design and supply strategies of Iran vs most countries comes into play. By having a LONGSTANDING policy of not starting wars, Iran had the ability to not have to have a large supply of ammunition on hand, and could instead, for pennies on the dollar, simply build the capacity to mass manufacture such ammunition. The Israeli regime has relied on being able to simply use the American weapons stockpile as it's own, and America has had a long-standing practice of avoiding attacking those with the ability to be self sufficient in arms design and manufacturing, and monetization of every aspect of its weapons design and supply to maximize the profits of selling its weapons to allies and client states, including limiting production capabilities to drive up the sales price. Now, finding itself committed to supplying TWO regimes in protracted, high rate of fire conflicts America's stockpiles are depleted, it's weapons are full of intentionally difficult to mass manufacture components, the inequalities of its economic systems and aging population all combine to make it politically, economically, and socially difficult to ramp up production in time to save those regimes.

deanzaZZRToday  03:06 pm JST

Learn some history. Taiwan is an island province of China. 

Taiwan was never an island province of the PRC (China).

Taiwan was part of the Qing Dynasty, who handed it over to Imperial Japan in 1885. The Republic of China replaced the Qing Dynasty in 1912. In 1945 Japan handed Taiwan back to the Republic of China, in whose hands it has remained since 1948.

The PRC (China) was established in 1949, 4 years after WWII ended.

Was the American warship towing the Canadian one?

ZaphodOct. 21 06:51 pm JST

Always?

Meaningless. If America hand any balls it would end the one china policy and recognize Taiwan as independent country. And so should Japan.

I have been pointing out this hypocrisy for the longest time. The US wants to have its cake and eat it too .... on one hand appease Peking with their "one China" policy, and on the other hand act as if they recognized Taiwan as a country and the "one China" agreement did not exist. And the US vassal states follow this double-speak.

These two things are simply not compatible. If you want to meddle in the area, make a clear slate and say so!

Peking new this was the deal when they normalized relations with the US. If the 1.4 billion kg gorilla is going to use its heft to its advantage, some creative language is not unwarranted.

RichardPearceOct. 21 08:03 pm JST

This might be the last time the US can assert it's CLAIM that the waters between mainland China and the Chinese province of Taipei are 'international waters'.

Why? Peking going to start ww3 over it? Also no claim about it: there is nothing but rocks in the strait.

When Netanyahu ATTACKS Iran for the THIRD time, and Iran defends itself, there's no way Biden isn't going to not order America's military assets in the ME to get involved in trying to protect the regime despite Iran having made clear in every possible forum that it will consider every plane, base, and ship that fires on their response as hostiles that are participating in an attack on Iran and expand its response to include them.

And any deep draft ship in the Persian Gulf has little maneuvering room to avoid incoming fire, and they are even more limited in the duration of their shielding fire than the Israeli regime itself.

This is where the different weapons design and supply strategies of Iran vs most countries comes into play. By having a LONGSTANDING policy of not starting wars, Iran had the ability to not have to have a large supply of ammunition on hand, and could instead, for pennies on the dollar, simply build the capacity to mass manufacture such ammunition. The Israeli regime has relied on being able to simply use the American weapons stockpile as it's own, and America has had a long-standing practice of avoiding attacking those with the ability to be self sufficient in arms design and manufacturing, and monetization of every aspect of its weapons design and supply to maximize the profits of selling its weapons to allies and client states, including limiting production capabilities to drive up the sales price. Now, finding itself committed to supplying TWO regimes in protracted, high rate of fire conflicts America's stockpiles are depleted, it's weapons are full of intentionally difficult to mass manufacture components, the inequalities of its economic systems and aging population all combine to make it politically, economically, and socially difficult to ramp up production in time to save those regimes.

Hilarious. AFAIK our stock of anti-ship missiles and aircraft remains untouched.

GDBDOct. 21 11:08 pm JST

Just like we did over the past 75 years?

You have not done it yet as keeping Taiwan is still beneficial to your economic interests. That is it. You will sell them out as soon as the tide changes.

In 1949, having Taiwan on our side was not beneficial economically, but we retained a military relationship and political support all of these years.

Don't believe me, ask Afghanis, Kurds, Vietnamese, Georgians etc.

What am I supposed to ask them? No former allies of the US were abandoned for economics.

As said, western moral compass always and only points to the money.

Now lets bring on the loan traps to the global south amirite?

Here are facts: China and Taiwan are deeply intertwined through shared history, culture, language, and traditions, with both populations celebrating the same festivals, speaking Mandarin, and sharing a majority Han Chinese ethnic background - making them far closer to each other than, for instance, Spain and Catalonia, the U.K. and Scotland, Canada and Quebec, the U.S. and Puerto Rico, France and Corsica, Japan and Okinawa, or India and Kashmir, where questions of territorial sovereignty, cultural identity, and autonomy create significant divides.

So are the US and the UK. They are still separate countries.

They differ only in political structure which is being instigated by the west.

Aw you poor CCP members. Can't own the Chinese world. So sad.

So If you are new to this topic, don't listen the instigators on this page. They don't care for Taiwanese. They just want to spread the hate for China and hope someone would fight the china on their behalf.

No I want the US to fight directly for Taiwan.

Chinese proved during the unification with Hong Kong not to fall for blood-thirst-western plans and I am pretty sure they will manage it again while unifying with Taiwan.

China won't be able to get its dirty white shirts into Taiwan without a fight.

Right, except not being a member of the United Nations, The World Bank, The World Health Organization and the list goes one.

It clearly is in all meaningful ways

The whole One China concept agreed to by the USA, Japan and the vast majority of the countries in the world was to create an environment for the Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Strait to negotiate a peaceful settlement of their differences. Early on China (PRC) offered the One State, Two Systems solution which would have allowed the Taiwan authorities to stay in power and even keep its military. Sadly the DPP with encouragement of the USA has turned its back on this promising future.

GDBDToday 02:22 am JST

So many Lies in one post. Let's debunk each of them one-by-one.

You can try, but my love for Taiwan is decades old now.

In 1949, having Taiwan on our side was not beneficial economically, but we retained a military relationship and political support all of these years.

And that was not for your love of Taiwanese. You take advantage of political separation while China was still weak and wanted to have something against China so you can use when needed. As soon as Taiwan is no use, you will sell them out.

That is still not an economic reason, though. And maintaining a democracy in the face of CCP thuggery is its own reward. The US hasn't sold out a functional democracy yet.

What am I supposed to ask them? No former allies of the US were abandoned for economics.

Then why you abandoned them. Scared? Afraid to lose a battle?

Yes, losing soldiers is why we have had to cut our losses sometimes defending nonfunctional allies. Comes with being a country unafraid to do bold things.

Or just overall a deceitful culture by definition? Pick your answer.

Nothing deceitful about it. Deceitful would be pretending you are a developing country while building the largest navy in the world and doing debt traps all around the world.

Now lets bring on the loan traps to the global south amirite?

I will let your own folks tell you why this is another lie: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/

China remains the largest lender to the global south, and it is not because they are generous.

For the folks who don't want to read the entire thing, The Chinese ‘Debt Trap’ Is a Myth.

The Atlantic is free to post scummy essays. The secret China debt is not a myth.

So are the US and the UK. They are still separate countries.

US and UK are not close to each other in the sense of Chinese living on China and Taiwan. US is a country of immigration and the largest group of people by ethnicity is Germans. According to ChatGPT around 22.8 million Americans reported English ancestry, making up approximately only 6.9% of the total U.S. population. Having said that, UK is American Lapdog, so that is some intimacy for sure.

Insulting the UK does not make it not a separate country and does not make it an occupied territory like you would like Taiwan to be.

Aw you poor CCP members. Can't own the Chinese world. So sad.

Not going to share any personal info. But I assume you might have an agenda.

I have no agenda other than the freedom of 24 million Taiwanese.

No I want the US to fight directly for Taiwan.

Yes, sure, we believe you. Sarcasm. Ukrainians believed that too. Kurds believed that too.

The US never promised we would fight with our soldiers for Ukraine or Kurdistan. Your hero russia would do MAD over it anyways. We have promised we would defend Taiwan through the Taiwan Relations Act and 75 years of history, but you are right that it should be more formal.

China won't be able to get its dirty white shirts into Taiwan without a fight.

You wish but not happening mate. Not sure what is the colour of Chinese shirts but I want to see the colour of western faces when China and Taiwan unified peacefully.

Are the dirty CCP members in Taipei right now? My goal achieved.

deanzaZZRToday 02:58 am JST

Right, except not being a member of the United Nations, The World Bank, The World Health Organization and the list goes one.

And we know how effective those are, right? (eyeroll)

It clearly is in all meaningful ways

The whole One China concept agreed to by the USA, Japan and the vast majority of the countries in the world was to create an environment for the Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Strait to negotiate a peaceful settlement of their differences.

Thankfully there are fewer and fewer Chinese on Taiwan everyday:

https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7800&id=6961

Early on China (PRC) offered the One State, Two Systems solution which would have allowed the Taiwan authorities to stay in power and even keep its military. Sadly the DPP with encouragement of the USA has turned its back on this promising future.

That council has been made obsolete by how we've seen two systems work out in Hong Kong.

GDBDToday 04:33 am JST

I remember a time before TINC. Discussions were more robust and there was a lot less scrolling over useless posts.

You are right. This was my first engagement with @taiwanisnotchina. I learned it is not worthy. Thanks for reminder.

See you around.