NATO on Wednesday showed no sign it would be willing to invite Ukraine to join its ranks anytime soon as allies sought more information from President Volodymyr Zelenskyy about his “victory plan” for ending the war with Russia.
The plan centers on a request for NATO to move forward on the “accelerated” membership application that Zelenskyy made two years ago to seek protection under the military alliance's security umbrella after Russia launched its full-scale invasion.
NATO’s credibility is based on its collective security guarantee, Article 5 of its founding treaty. It’s a political commitment by all 32 member countries to come to the aid of any member whose sovereignty or territory might be under attack.
However, it does not apply to a partner country like Ukraine.
NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte declined to welcome the “victory plan,” saying only that he and the allies “take note” of it. He did not discuss when Ukraine might join the world’s biggest military alliance, beyond insisting that it would become a member.
“The plan has many aspects and many political and military issues we really need to hammer out with the Ukrainians to understand what is behind it, to see what we can do, what we cannot do,” Rutte said in his muted response at NATO headquarters in Brussels.
“We are in close contact with allies, with Ukraine, to see how we can take next steps,” he added. He declined to provide details about what more NATO wants to know, telling reporters only: “I cannot give you all the insights about that.”
For now, Rutte said, the focus must be on helping Ukraine to win back more territory and strengthen its hand for any future peace negotiations.
Zelenskyy is due to explain elements of his plan on Thursday to leaders of the European Union, most of whom also stand among NATO's ranks.
It all comes at a dark time for Ukraine. Its troops are struggling to hold off better manned and equipped Russian forces, especially in the eastern Donetsk region where they are gradually being pushed back. Kyiv is surviving with Western help, but Ukraine says it is coming too slowly.
While outlining his plan on Wednesday, Zelenskyy told Ukrainian lawmakers that granting the country a NATO invitation would be a “testament of (allies’) determination” to support its efforts.
“An invitation is a strong decision that requires nothing but determination,” he said.
Ukraine’s future in NATO is something the alliance has weighed for 16 years.
At their summit in Washington in July, the 32 members declared Ukraine on an “irreversible” path to membership. To the uninitiated, however, little seems to have progressed since NATO leaders promised Ukraine and Georgia in 2008 that “these countries will become members of NATO” one day.
For now, NATO is in a holding pattern. Its biggest and most powerful member, the United States, is facing a presidential election. European allies expect little movement on Ukraine until a new president takes office in January.
Beyond that, the United States and European heavyweight Germany remain deeply concerned about being dragged into a wider war with nuclear-armed Russia, and they lead a group of countries that oppose allowing Ukraine to join NATO until the conflict ends.
In any case, NATO diplomats said, Ukraine’s borders would need to be clearly demarcated before it could join so that there can be no mistaking where the Article 5 guarantee would come into effect.
Russian troops have seized about 20% of the country.
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41 Comments
TaiwanIsNotChina
There will be unlimited weapons for Ukraine indefinitely but it will be problematic to bring them under article 5.
JJE
The penny hasn't dropped yet has it. Moscow will decide the end game.
What is left over of the former Ukraine will become a rump-neutralist state. This will entail no-NATO, demilitarization and denazification.
There will be no unconditional ceasefire or Minsk-style trickery that allows the Kyiv-regime time to regroup and rearm; simply won't happen.
Moscow wants this settled once and for all on several counts. Firstly, an acceptable Ukraine moving forward as outlined above. Secondly, an attitude adjustment towards the underlying security architecture that underpins global security in a multipolar world from the Atlanticists, who should take their lumps.
changamangaliay
Ukraine joining NATO will bring NATO in direct conflict with Russia and NATO clearly don't want this. Current NATO plan is let Ukraine fight at their own.
Underworld
changamangaliay
Russia is already saying that it is fighting NATO. So no change.
Without security guarantees for Ukraine, there will be no peace.
Underworld
JJE
Nope. It won’t. This is Putin’s Afghanistan. It won’t end well.
JJE
Hardly an Afghan-like conflict zone. The article states that Kyiv-regime forces are in a precarious position. Nonsensical "victory plans" or "peace formulas" will not change the underlying causes of the conflict. Kyiv and their western sponsors need to sober up and realize the former cannot hide behind the skirt of NATO and avoid repercussions for its many transgressions against public decency since 2014.
Judging from the overall tone, in this article and others, they are pouring a cold bucket of water on the crazed idea to admit Kyiv into NATO, especially while there is a hot conflict. Kyiv will have to restore 1991 borders, and no one seriously entertains that happening before pigs become airborne.
Eastmann
2020hindsights
Nope. It won’t. This is Putin’s Afghanistan. It won’t end well.
PROVE IT.
Eastmann
If Kiev wants join NATO and EU need to go to process as all of other members did.
first at all-solve issue with its national borders.once this will be solved than talk about some kind of membership.
to be able to go point zero conflict in UA must end.by negotiation.without any preconditions/aka "victory plan".
no more Minsk agreement type "negotiation".
Volodymyr knows that end of his regime is coming to the end.
and UA have zero chance to win.no NATO gamechangers,no antirussian sanctions,no tons of antirussian hate and propaganda spread by media brought any possitive change for Kiev junta.
bear your fruits Volodymyr.
Eastmann
Russia is already saying that it is fighting NATO in this proxy conflict.There is a "slight difference" to fight against NATO in proxy conflict and to fight directly.NATO have balls to fight indirectly using UA manpower as their kanonenfutter and UA territoyr as their proxy battlefield.
Without security guarantees for Ukraine/and Russia/ there will be no peace.
Thats why there need to return back to negotiation table,this time without BoJo...Kiev junta have to come to senses and accept reality on the ground.
Eastmann
btw if we are talking about "russian new Afghanistan" lets have a look at fresh news about UA escape from Kupyansk...by any meaning this does not seeems so as russian defeat to me at all....
wallace
10,000 North Korean troops are now in Russia. Some are already dying on the front lines. The Kremlin has dismissed the claims as a "fake news story".
Eastmann
10,000 North Korean troops are now in Russia. Some are already dying on the front lines. The Kremlin has dismissed the claims as a "fake news story".
PROVE IT.
TaiwanIsNotChina
100k dead russians. QED.
Primusinter
What credible source reports it? Wikipedia or Ukrainian Insider? Let me guess who said that. Zel in his nightly speech?
So far there is no true evidence of their presence in this war.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Ukraine is not as shaky a county as russia.
It's easy to negotiate a DMZ and you won't have BoJo to make up stories about this time.
wallace
Many media reports on the North Korean troops.
TaiwanIsNotChina
You haven't put down the requisite downpayment in conscripts.
What russia gets from the West in any negotiation will not be something Putin wants to take home with him.
Existing and not being a russian colony are not transgressions.
Primusinter
For example? One which is original.
You, wallace, still didn't say who told you that Putin was sending pensioners to front. I'm still waiting for your answer.
wallace
Primusinter
Many media reports on the North Korean troops.
I don't have to prove my posts. You have to disprove them.
Eastmann
Many media reports on the North Korean troops
wallace-provide source.or PROVE.you have NONE.
in this forums language your post is OFF TOPIC.
Eastmann
facts are that west have lost in another battle against Russia.
ask Scholz why he suddenly "needs to talk" with Putin...economy problems?
highly likely...
burgers and beers
"NATO on Wednesday showed no sign it would be willing to invite Ukraine to join its ranks anytime soon... "
That's a bummer because main point of this "Victory Plan" is apparently NATO membership before the war ends.
"Victory Plan" in the Verkhovna Rada, the main points:*— Inviting Ukraine to NATO even before the end of the war;
— Continuation of operations on Russian territory and lifting of restrictions on strikes on its territory. Joint destruction of Russian aviation with partners, expansion of the use of Ukrainian drones and missiles; access to partners’ intelligence;
— Deployment of a “non-nuclear deterrent package” on the territory of Ukraine;
— Development of Ukraine’s strategic and economic potential and strengthening of sanctions against the Russian Federation;
— After the war ends, Ukrainian military can use their experience to strengthen the defense of NATO and Europe. The US contingent in Europe can be replaced by Ukrainian military.
rainyday
PROVE IT.
PROVE IT.
PROVE IT.
burgers and beers
Many media reports on the North Korean troops.
The same media reported on the Ghost of Kyiv and fallen to the last man Snake Island defenders. About same level of credibility.
JJE
Certain quarters are clanging on about a DMZ Korean style solution, in the mistaken belief "freezing the conflict" would be acceptable - presumably for Kyiv to regather strength and commence hostilities down the track. This a yet another dishonest western Minsk-style ruse, and Moscow will not entertain this fantasy once again.
A realistic DMZ would look like everything west of the Dnieper excluding existing cities that straddle the banks (meaning they are part of the East), along with Mykolaiv and Odessa, to be added East for the sake of symmetry.
Demarcated borders based upon this, demilitarization, neutralism, no-NATO, as highlighted in the article, are the other two prerequisites for cease of the defensive limited ground operation.
Failing this, unconditional surrender is the only other realistic alternative. Putin was deadly serious with the offer of 4 oblasts back in February. Now that offer is off the table.
TaiwanIsNotChina
There aren't enough russians and there is no will for anything but a DMZ.
Hope you can swim better than you fight.
That's not a DMZ then. Your dream is about regime change which doesn't happen in real countries.
I would like to see the conscripts go up against all 30 some million of Ukraine's citizens.
Eastmann
burgers and beers
wallace
10,000 North Korean troops are now in Russia. Some are already dying on the front lines. The Kremlin has dismissed the claims as a "fake news story".source
Radio Yerevan?
just asking
burgers and beers.
yes.there were many "events".start with shovel equipped russian moralless army.lets continue with tanks from museums.dont forget abt chips from ukrainian washing machines.after that Russians have shelled nuclear powers station/they were in control of/...and so on.story about dead North Koreans/10.000 or 1.000.000?/is just another level from same propaganda machine.wondering what will be next IQ level....
common sense anyone?
story is simple.UA and west are loosing despite all of efforts.Russia is not alone or isolated.
Eastmann
rainy day
again
I don't have to prove my posts. You have to disprove them.
wakarimasuka?
Blacklabel
Darn.
the entire “victory plan”was basically “join NATO and force them to beat Russia for us cause we can’t”
Zaphod
I thought his "victory plan" was described in the article and his nothing new. He wants to turn the conflict into a direct US-Russia confrontation, i.e. WW3. Hopefully, there are enough sane people who resist this.
Zaphod
JJE
Rump or not, borders have always been changeable. What is absolutely clear is that UKR has to be neutral, like Switzerland and Austria. US bases and missiles in Ukraine are absolutely unacceptable to any Russian government, as has been made abundantly clear by the Russian government, as well as senior diplomats and scholars on both sides.
Zaphod
wallace
Containing more than just repeats of claims from Kiev? Show us!
wallace
Zaphod
Many media reports on the North Korean troops.
God gave you Google. It's easy.
Primusinter
The opinion of an Ukrainian. Adequate one.
"In short about the "Victory Plan" presented in the Verkhovna Rada. In fact, the West is offered a deal: you provide access to military resources and means for waging war, allow us to hit long-range missiles on the territory of Russia, and we agree to give you the subsoil funds of Ukraine, provide territory for NATO bases and replace the American contingent in Europe with our fighters. The material benefit is obvious.
But the first point (the statement on Ukraine's accession to NATO) will mark the transition to a direct confrontation between Russia and NATO. The deployment of a "strategic non-nuclear package," as the foreign bases were veiled, is contrary to the Constitution. The subsoil is not the property of the state, but of the people of Ukraine (Article 13 of the Constitution), and their transfer to foreign companies will require at least a referendum - the people did not give Zelensky a mandate to alienate his property
So, the plan looks unrealistic. And let's call a spade a spade: the essence of the deal being concluded is that "you (the West) help us stop Putin, and in return we agree to the status of your colony."
Zaphod
wallace
I googled. All reports that show up are simply based on claims Kiev. I asked for other sources.
wallace
18 North Korean soldiers have already deserted 7 kilometers from the border with Ukraine.
Blacklabel
so the US bases in places like Germany and Italy become “Ukraine bases”?
they are trusted enough and strong enough suddenly to base their troops abroad and we just send the US home?
uh, nah. Unrealistic.
Blacklabel
7 km inside Ukraine or 7km left to get there?
Eastmann
Many media reports on the North Korean troops.
18 North Korean soldiers have already deserted 7 kilometers from the border with Ukraine.
source Radio Yerevan
when our reporter have asked DPRK soldiers govorite po russki reply was DA...so its "confirmed"
Eastmann
Update from radio Yerevan
Many media reports on the North Korean troops.
18 North Korean soldiers have already deserted 7 kilometers from the border with Ukraine.
source Radio Yerevan
when our UA reporter have asked DPRK soldiers zvitki ti rodom?reply was - iz Vladivostoka?
howgh
Eastmann
wallace
Radio Yerevan have said 7.000km...you should check better mate...