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© KYODOIshiba says Japan will prepare for 'any development' over Taiwan
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122 Comments
TaiwanIsNotChina
Let's hope "preparing for any development" means preparing to defend Taiwan.
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Samit Basu
@TaiwanIsNotChina
Unfortunately, it simply means ensuring the war not spilling over to Japan and organizing a quick evacuation of Japanese and critical Taiwanese VIP individuals(aka TSMC senior engineers and executives) to Japan....
garymalmgren
Preparing for a massive inflow of refugees?
It is happening around the world, so there is no reason to think that Japan would be immune.
Mike_Oxlong
A rather bellicose statement by the new PM. Is he spoiling for a fight?
voiceofokinawa
Taiwan used to be IJ's colony. Japan returned it to China in accordance with the Potsdam Declaration.
Soon after, Chang Kai Shek's Kuo Ming Tang Party fled to Taiwan as the result of the ongoing civil war with Mao Tse Tang's Communist Party.
The Taiwan issue must be considered in this context.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Yup. Taiwan is rightfully the property of the government in Taipei.
PTownsend
What might the Over/under be on whether Xi will lie like his pal Putin did, that it's only a drill, we're not going to invade?
Fos
@ Samit Basu
You are absolutely right. If it wasn’t for “the interest of advanced chips” in Taiwan, Washington would turn their attention to a different part of the word to wage another full scale war, where they can obtain economic interests. Building up the case against China from nothing, and anticipating who knows what for the sake of their commercial investments. I find it ridiculous.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Fully explains the 75 year commitment to defend Taiwan. /s
obladi
Despite all the rhetoric, what China wants from Taiwan are microchips. And, despite all the efforts of the U.S. and Japan, China is getting them. What say you to this Mr. Ishiba?
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Zaphod
TaiwanIsNotChina
...and on what legal basis would that be? Japan does not legally recognize Taiwan as a country, so legally that would be interfering in a civil war.
How about officially recognizing Taiwans independence before talking big?
Fos
@ TaiwanIsNotChina
As far as we know U.S. does not support de jure Taiwan independence. Only in the past few years, to please their military apparatus and the Wall Street mercenaries, they are looking for fresh meat where to turn their attention since they have already placed good orders to destabilize Middle East and Europe. If you add the fact Taiwan produce advance quality chips, then it is the perfect script for the 5 stars generals at the Pentagon. If you ask 4 Americans out of 5 where is Taiwan, they would probably think is Marvel character.
Ricky Kaminski13
It sounds like it’s on. Japan and China may start testing their military tech on each other even without an invasion of Taiwan.
The minute Japan starts knocking these missiles out of the air, that could be the start. We had three representatives of the SDF at a festival the other day. Got to have a chat with them too. They seemed very aligned and focused on what may lie ahead. They seemed confident too. Is this that generation? Hopefully it’s just a small window of chaos right now and things will settle down with a change of leadership in the states. America, choose wisely! Stakes are sort of high right now!
finally rich
Kind of difficult for anyone to defend Taiwan when people prefer Blue over Red, it's actually surprising China hasnt taken it over in the last 2 years, they had the chance.
TaiwanIsNotChina
They are not going to change with appeasement and abandoning Taiwan.
TaiwanIsNotChina
If you were American you would know that the US can switch its recognition to Taiwan at any time and support that side in a "civil war" fully legally.
Bruce Pennyworth
China won't make the mistake of trying to invade but we'll see. Worlds due for a large scale war.
TaiwanIsNotChina
They don't support CCP takeover of Taiwan either.
Still 3% of gdp.
Thankfully it is not up to the person on the street to remember who our real friends are.
Ricky Kaminski13
Which will be seen as an act of war by the CCP , the trillion dollar question is not whether they could switch, whether they would switch.
Wasabi
Are they already prepare for this?
My guess is that the army is already prepare, that is just the politic speaking.
isabelle
No, it means ensuring Japan's survival.
If China takes Taiwan, it would cut off Japan's Sea Lines of Communication. China would be able to hold hostage Japan's trade, energy, food, and everything else. Japan will not let this happen without a fight.
Any/all of the following, which are all legal under Japan's constitution, could happen.
1) Basing, logistics, intelligence, etc. to support US combat operations, plus humanitarian assistance
2) Direct military action with the US via collective self-defense
3) If the Diet determines that there is an imminent attack on Japan by China, pre-emptive strikes
4) If China actually attacks Japan, a full response
deanzaZZR
China would? Please provide historical evidence of China cutting off any country's sea lanes.
voiceofokinawa
TaiwanIsNotChina,
Taiwan is the property of the Taiwanese, that include the native Taiwanese.
Fos
isabelle
Here it is: the "warmongering narrative" which Washington is trying to spread in Japan based on no evidence, rather than "Social media hearsay" that China is hostile to Japan. If you would read a bit of history we know exactly the opposite. Japan occupied China and did what he did, no need to venture in specifics.
Because we live in this present era of shallow knowledge now we have crusaders and sheriffs trying to roll out rumors of an imminent attack of China, so that the mighty Japanese politician can convince the breadwinner in Tokyo that buying a Patriot US missile is more important than financing children policies on budget decisions. This is the issue of the problem. Money in Wall Street as opposed to dialogue and diplomacy in the continent which DO NOT belong tp Washington.
TaiwanIsNotChina
If 24 million people are at risk of death and enslavement, absolutely.
TaiwanIsNotChina
China hasn't had a powerful navy in some time, but they try to cut off the Philippines legal access to their outposts and block military ships from legally transiting the Taiwan strait.
itsonlyrocknroll
The Government of China has made no secret, not for a moment attempting to play down the despot dictatorships obsession to invade Taiwan, to seize the Taiwan Strait Global shipping lane.
These provocative incursions, air/sea, the so called "large-scale military drills", tone belligerence will developing into a phased blockade.
Such action will accompany a military staged "domino effect" assisted by fully operational "fortified sandcastles" in the South China Sea.
This action will completely cut off region access to vital imports/exports.
“The South China Sea is the most valuable shipping lane in the world in terms of the value of trade that transits through it,” Marko Papic, chief global geo-macro strategist at BCA Research, told CNBC.
Global trade at risk as tensions escalate in South China Sea
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/11/global-trade-at-risk-as-tensions-escalate-in-south-china-sea-.html
Japan must consider without delay a independent offshore deterrent.
isabelle
It's happening right now in the South China Sea.
"If China attacks Japan, Japan would fight back" is a warmongering narrative spread by the US? Very strange interpretation.
I realize that the standard CCP strategy is to blame the US for most things, and suggest that other countries are its "vassals," but you're just being ridiculous here.
Not just "social media hearsay:" threatening the Senkakus, economic coercion (seafood, rare earths, etc.), hostage diplomacy, tech stealing, cyber-attacks, etc. All Chinese hostility toward Japan.
I'm well aware of history. All the people who made those decisions are long dead, and present-day Japan is very different to Imperial Japan of 80 years ago.
It's like comparing Nazi Germany to current Germany.
No, we have diplomatic, security, and military professionals wisely preparing in case it does happen.
You see, brutal dictatorships like China can do very irrational things, and the free world needs to be prepared. Just look at Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
deanzaZZR
Funny. Trade flows normally across the SCS because China is a global trading nation dependent on global shipping. Your logic completely fails the logic test. China is the #1 trader of South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Indonesia and on and on. Check the meds.
deanzaZZR
Yes, the 1.4 billion Chinese people in the PRC are slaves. This site is turning into high comedy if it wasn't a sad reflection on global ignorance.
リッチ
Sorry but Japan isn’t in any position to do anything anywhere. It’s a joke of a statement. China in Asia is master now and while it’s sad to state the obvious it’s just the reality at the moment. Waiting for China to declare Japan was once part of China also. lol. It’s maybe coming in a few more years.
Fos
@ Isabel
There is nothing brutal about China, only your vicious narrative, because you only read US media.
There is a population proud to be Chinese and would not change anything about their heritage.
Same as the there many Ukrainians who want dialogue with Russia and not being coerced to die on a battle front because of Washington problem to keep their fading hegemony, .
We are talking about peace and stability here not "Hate speech" and false claims of “the attack is imminent”
China has neither the intent nor the capability to attack Japan or any other country.
And the US is a very dangerous ally.
Fos
@TaiwanIsNotChina
With due respect, the Philippines claims are not a credible argument. Manila’s government was not credible with the sheriff Rodrigo Duterte, and it is even less trustworthy with Bongbong Marcos, who just sign a multi billion dollars agreement with the USA to build more military bases and commercials contracts with America corporations.
Just a quick history recap: he is the son of Ferdinando Marcos who ruled the country under martial law for almost 10 years in the Seventies, and was deposed by a nonviolent revolution in 1986. History books remembers him for human rights abuses, civilian massacres, totable murders, ill-gotten wealth and kleptocracy. Obviously during his tenure he was a close ally of Washington and spent many years until his death in Hawaii, protected by the US administration.
isabelle
When a totalitarian state that is well known for using economic coercion gets the chance to inflict even more, it's not a failure of logic to expect this to actually happen, and therefore to prepare accordingly in case. Governments would be remiss if they did not.
If you don't believe that China would hold hostage other nations' trade in the event that it controlled Taiwan, you are either very naive indeed, or something else that the JT mods would remove if I said it.
And I would remind you that part of the reason that "trade flows" is because the US, Japan and others keep these lines open.
isabelle
Perhaps you don't know about the CCP's censorship, arbitrary detention and torture, forced labor, occupation of Tibet, Xinjiang genocide, trashing of the Sino-British Joint Declaration, Tiananmen massacre, organ harvesting, religious repression, occupation of the South China Sea, etc. etc. etc.
Perhaps you only read Xinhua and the People's Daily.
It's fine to be proud about being Chinese. It's rather less fine to support the brutal dictatorship that is the CCP.
It certainly has the intent, but probably not the capability to attack Japan (due to the US alliance).
And, FYI, China is currently attacking the Philippines in the SCS, and invading the Indian border. Again, perhaps you are unaware.
The Philippines' claims are recognized by UNCLOS (which China has ratified and is bound by). None of your other anti-US red herrings matter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Sea_Arbitration#Award
TaiwanIsNotChina
Doesn't matter what you think of the Philippines. China's claims take the cake for ridiculousness and don't even explain why they think they can disrupt travel in international waters.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Tell us who has the bbc blocked for them and I will tell you who are the slaves.
stormcrow
If China ever does take the big plunge by invading Taiwan, that's going to be a worldwide mess.
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Fos
TaiwanIsNotChina
It is not my idea of Philippines, I just gave a history check which is not part of US military dispatches for once.
It a bit strange that neither of the top South East Asian economies are following suit and are happy trading partners of China: Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam to name a few. These accusations from Manila are so made up that even pro-US media finds difficult to keep up with their diabolical lies.
TaiwanIsNotChina
All scummy dictatorships, Muslim, or beholden to China.
That's because the US hasn't been allowed in to throw the pirates back yet.
Hiro S Nobumasa
The China VS Taiwan issue is no longer about the Chiang VS Mao fisticuffs.
It is NOW an issue of DEMOCRACY vs DICTATORSHIP.
The US and Japan must clearly choose where to anchor their feet.
Stand with the Authoritarian Dictatorship OR fall in line with the DEMOCRATIC and FREEDOM loving & peaceful people of Taiwan?
Fos
@Isabel
I’ve mentioned it before, I think people in this chat are smarter and they know when you use the US military dispatched which sound ‘desperate’ to say the least, to fabricate this China anti-rhetoric on a daily base, just to preserve their interests on Wall Street. That does explain market climbing to new all-time highs. But I though we are talking about human aspirations here not pure greed and Goldman Sachs assets.
Your above arguments confirms my theory. China since the beginning of the altercations has ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and shows that is not the ‘maverick’ country you described. Unlike United States of America which, to name one, never joined the International Court of Justice and hosts Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu to give a life lecture in Capitol Hill, what a farce! Or - just to stay in the "friends of US galaxy”, the state of Israel accuses Iran to destabilize Middle East but refuses to join Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons.
From that standpoint, there is no moral authority, really. How do you expect people can side with the US administration? A country that has provided 18 billion dollars in arm sales to the State of Israel from the beginning of this year to finance the genocide in Gaza and Lebanon operation?
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/papers/2024/USspendingIsrael
over 55 billion to Ukraine since the start of the conflict, and let's no go even there....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62002218#:~:text=The%20US%20has%20been%20the,Economy%2C%20a%20German%20research%20organisation.
And now is ready to turn the Asian continent into a powder keg. Dangerous:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-strategy-anti-ship-weapons-counter-china-plentiful-mobile-deadly-2024-09-17/
You and your friends have no moral standing to forge stories against China.
Fos
@ TaiwanIsNotChina
India is a democracy only when is part of QUAD, the rest of the time is a question mark, right? Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia are only as good as their willingness to provide space for US military, I would imagine. Can we say Japan is a better place, culturally and economically, since opening up to United Stated of America. I don’t think we can. You have your answer.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Still 3% of gdp.
You have to do more than ratify the treaty. You actually have to abide by it. The US does the opposite so the US is actually less of a maverick in this respect.
Completely irrelevant to the SCS but that's okay.
Not every country is so concerned about eliminating Israel.
And that is shameful that it is so small.
If China doesn't start wars, it has nothing to worry about.
The country that murdered 15 million of its citizens for politics has no moral standing period.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Is it the 4th most powerful country in Asia and 8th overall? Why yes, yes it is.
quercetum
Silly comment from the 20th century. The feudal aristocracy in democracy are the tech giants acquiring the digital landscape across the U.S. and the world.
Were it not for authoritarianism, Japan would not have Article 9 in its Constitution. MacArthur dictated quite well, eliminating the military and adding the articles in the Constitution necessary for peace. No war in 77 years.
quercetum
I can assure you the Philippines will need to pay up on protection frees. The US Navy does not work for free. Japan pays, Taiwan pays. South Kore pays. You have to pay. The Filipinos don't want to pay.
The ICBM sent a message to the US. All has been quiet since.
isabelle
Absolutely nothing to do with the article, or my reply. You're just trying to employ the standard CCP strategy that I mention above: blame the US.
It won't work.
And breaking this treaty that it has ratified shows that China is wrong, and cannot be trusted. The same as the WTO, Sino-British Joint Declaration, and everything else that China breaks.
Honestly, it's not hard to understand.
There you go again - trying to blame the US. The rest of your comment is irrelevant.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Democracy does exist and China ain't it.
And all due to former PM Shidehara.
TaiwanIsNotChina
What ICBM? So scary it completely went unnoticed.
isabelle
And any politicians that pander to them and prioritize their needs over the needs of the people will be voted out by the people. I realize you're unfamiliar with it, but that's how democracy works.
Total, and utter nonsense. Authoritarianism is a political system, not a post-war settlement involving a victorious power and a defeated aggressor, which is what you are referring to.
You're trying to draw a false equivalence, as you often do.
The Philippine government pays willingly per the democratic mandate from its people - unlike "protection money," which is forced. It can end the arrangement at any time, and the US forces will leave - as they did in 1992.
But the Philippines will (like Japan) almost certainly keep the alliance until the CCP falls and China ceases to be a threat.
Fos
Isabelle
You can call it irrelevant but if you make generic comments about the WTO then you should admit that was US who started the illegal commercial battle with tariffs against China on a global scale, and now there is no way out.
When you talk about Sino-British Joint Declaration than you should point out that Hong Kong was the facto an invasion by Britain in the 1890, and China was coerced by Japan, Germany and Russia to grant concessions.
Not surprisingly, China is determined that it must have the military capability to defend its homeland. However, it does not project its military power around the globe as does the US.
TaiwanIsNotChina
I believe it was China who said most companies operating in China required a domestic partner. Also China who manipulates their currency.
The world's largest navy isn't necessary to protect Macau.
Fos
@ TaiwanIsNotChina
I can say the same thing over to you: over 650 overseas US military bases including in Guam, Diego Garcia, ROK and Japan that ring China, do not really scream we love peace.
The US fleet, with Japan support, regularly patrols off the China coast and Washington would have hysterics if Chinese vessels patrolled off the Californian coast and the Florida Keys. Or if China had B-52 type aircraft based in Mexico!
TaiwanIsNotChina
Guam is US territory and the US is right to be able to throw China back from trying to slaughter 24 million people.
The Soviets used to do exactly that. No hysterics involved.
China doesn't share a border with Japan or South Korea.
OssanAmerica
Corrected to reflect left out facts:
Taiwan used to be IJ's colony 1885-1945. Japan returned it to The Republic of China in accordance with the Potsdam Declaration in 1945. On October 25, 1945, the Republic of China took administrative control of Taiwan. This day is often referred to as "Retrocession Day" in Taiwan, marking the island’s return to Republic of China's rule.
Soon after, Chang Kai Shek's Kuo Ming Tang Party fled to Taiwan in 1948 as the result of the ongoing civil war with Mao Tse Tang's Communist Party, and established the seat of The Republic of China on Taiwan.
The PRC did not even exist until 1949. Never has Taiwan been under the control or administration of the PRC (China).
The Taiwan issue must be considered in this context.
Fos
@TaiwnaIsNotChina
Ah ok, now we are just making up stories with Russia now. Same as “Israel did not invade the Golan Heights and is abiding by the UN resolutions”. Anything goes, I see your point. Running out of pre-determined lines :)
United States of America does not belong to the Asian continent. China does, same as Russia. We don’t need destabilizing villains, we need diplomacy done by the regional powers.
Zaphod
OssanAmerica
I totally agree. And while all your historical references are correct, the current context is this:
In 1979, Jimmy Carter recognized the PRC as "the sole legal government of China" established an embassy in Beijing while closing the U.S. embassy in Taipei.
And that has not changed.
So any military aid to Taiwan would go to a territory that the US does NOT recognize, and instead officially regards as represented by the CCP government in Peking.
Talk about having your cake and eat it! I am not arguing which country is better, I am simply pointing to the absurdity and diplomatic duplicity of the US.
Fos
@Zaphod
It is all down to business and greed.. US financial market are on all time high. How do you explain it considering the uncertainty on the geopolitical front? The longer war(s) are going on, the more scope there is for Wall Street hedge funds to benefits from it, when you consider that the top 5 arms manufacturers in the world are all American. The fact that hundreds of thousands of innocent lives have been lost in Ukraine and Middle East alone does not mean a thing for those vultures of Blackrok and friends
Peter14
Poor old China cant buy a clue. Taiwan is now and has always been independent. There was no questioning China's obvious independence when it was the ROC recognized by the UN. And in exactly the same way there is no doubt ROC is still as independent today as it was before PRC came into existence.
Poor leaders of PRC are so effected by dementia they forgot Taiwan has been independent longer than PRC has been. Trying to stop what has been for so long already is impossible, like stopping a sunrise that has already risen. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.
isabelle
Of "China," not of "Taiwan."
The Taiwan Relations Act was also passed in 1979 (and is still in operation) precisely to help protect Taiwan from the PRC.
For the fiftieth, though no doubt not the last, time, the US does not regard Taiwan as being represented by Beijing. It merely "acknowledges" (like Japan) that Beijing holds this position.
...
https://www.us-taiwan.org/resources/faq-the-united-states-one-china-policy-is-not-the-same-as-the-prc-one-china-principle/
The United States’ “One China Policy” does not recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC.
The U.S. has never recognized Taiwan as a part of the PRC. The U.S. merely acknowledges that the PRC holds the position that Taiwan is part of the PRC.
smithinjapan
"Prepare for any development".
Yeah... prepare to pick out a panel to discuss the obvious problem, then do nothing about it while you try to both say you stand up for Taiwan, but also try to appease Beijing... you know, the capital of the country your own Foreign Ministry recognizes Taiwan as belonging to?
OssanAmerica
In 2015, Japan passed new security legislation that reinterpreted Article 9, allowing Japan to engage in collective self-defense. This means Japan can now assist an ally (such as the U.S.) if that ally is under attack. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict that the U.S. would come under attack when it defends Taiwan.
Whether Taiwan is recognized as a sovereign nation is not relevant to the legal basis for military intervention on the part of Japan if it so chooses. The "Civil War" argument is the CCP narrative which not accepted by Taiwan or the rest of the world as the Chinese Civil War ended in 1949 and Taiwan has existed as a defacto independent nation since then.
OssanAmerica
Correct that the US (as well as other nations) recognize the PRC as the sole legal government of "China". However, there has always been a difference in interpretation. China considers the "one China policy" to include both sides of the Taiwan Strait. The US recognizes Peking to be the sole government of China, The US did however "recognize China's right to believe that Taiwan was included". But the U.S. itself has never recognized Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan. Hence the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979.
Incorrect, The U.S. does not consider Taiwan to be represented by the CCP government.
There is no duplicity or absurdity. There is merely a difference in interpretation resulting in two different positions.
It is China (PRC) which must renounce the right to take Taiwan by military force.
isabelle
Japan does not recognize Taiwan as belonging to Beijing.
It only acknowledges Beijing's position (like the US, and some other countries), and takes no explicit position itself on Taiwan's status: a policy of deliberate strategic ambiguity.
Zaphod
isabelle
And for umpteenth, no doubt not the last time, prior to the American policy shift, the Taiwanese government called itself the Republic of China and represented ALL OF CHINA, meaning Taiwan as well as mainland China.
And the US agreed with that position, and had an embassy in Taipeh.
In 1979, they reversed that position, recognized the CCP as representing China (meaning mainland China plus Taiwan), closed their embassy in Taipeh and opened their embassy in Peking.
Those are historical facts. The nitpicking of Taiwan never being under control of Peking de fact and all that is just an excuse for the US to have it both ways: Appease the CCP and not recognize Taiwan, and at the same time reserve the right to "defend" the Taiwan where they just closed their embassy.
This is ridiculous. Wanna fight for Taiwan? Then be honest, recognize Taiwan as independent and see your entire reliance on cheap production in mainland China collapse.
isabelle
Your assertion is false. The US did not, and still does not, mean "mainland China plus Taiwan."
When the US first recognized the ROC as "China," the PRC didn't even exist, so the US could not "reverse" its original position in 1979. By 1979 there had been a civil war, Taiwan's status was disputed, and that was reflected in US policy.
The US has simply never held the position that the CCP owns Taiwan, per my link above. If you can produce a US government document that explicitly says the CCP does own Taiwan, I'd love to see it.
WoodyLee
China will not attack Taiwan militarily, I believe China will consume Taiwan by all other means.
Zaphod
isabelle
I do not know what is supposed to mean. The Chinese government (the ROC) retreated to Taiwan, being driven from the mainland by the communists, but the US consistently recognized it as representing China. That is simply a historical fact.
What civil war are you talking about? By 1979 the ROC was controlling Taiwan, and the Communists were controlling mainland China. Mao was dead, and Peking was growing in power, as the more moderate Chan Kai Check (sp?) had taken over. There was no "civil war" any more. Both sides were claiming to represent all of China, and after Nixon decided to transfer recognition of who represents China from the ROC to the PRC i 1972, this was formalized in 1979. So the US embassy in Taipeh was closed, and a US embassy in Peking was opened. And all Taiwanese embassies in the US and the US vassal countries disappeared. There was no civil war in 1979.
So explain again how Taiwan is legally recognized as an independent country by the US?
TaiwanIsNotChina
I'm glad you bold it as it is important to remember.
Nope. I'm not a naval expert but the russians still send ships:
https://navyhistory.org/2017/02/russian-spy-ship-off-delaware-brings-back-cold-war-memories/
The only villains are China and russia who don't belong in polite company.
Not everything is about you.
Still 3% of gdp.
Blackrock is allowed to invest in whatever they want. No more ethical investment than in arms for Ukraine.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Free governments don't just disappear for you.
TaiwanIsNotChina
And this matters f all when it comes to international law. There is nothing saying the US can't send weapons to non-Chinese in Taiwan. The duplicity comes in making other countries sign garbage statements that are patently false like the PRC does.
I'm sure you think these things mean something but it isn't clear what it is in 2024.
Peking knew what it was signing up for when it normalized relations with the US. There was no secret.
How about not planning to crush a free people?
That runs counter to the justification by which the mainlanders will try to crush Taiwan and claim it is legal. No civil war means Taiwan is independent and entitled to territorial integrity.
The US doesn't take a position on whether Taiwan is an independent country but can at any time.
TokyoLiving
Japan, just relax..
This matter does not belong to you, do not play at being the US lapdog, stay on the sidelines and you wiil be safe and better..
Unification is unstoppable and Taiwan will soon return home to its Chinese mother..
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TokyoLiving
Japan does not have to get involved in a war that does not belong to it, stop deliring about Yankee wars, that only bring harm to the world..
TokyoLiving
TaiwanIsChina is on fire in the whiny comments..
https://media1.tenor.com/m/lirAMlHkR5YAAAAC/tantrum-throwing-a-fit.gif
LOOOOOOL
deanzaZZR
Don't hold back.
All you do is repost USA State Department policy in increasingly lengthy posts.
I encourage you to put your cards on the table. I am a USA citizen who has worked in China, Taiwan and Japan. My wife is Japanese and I plan to retire in Japan so I have a personal stake in all of this. What about you?
deanzaZZR
The 13 American colonies stood up for its independence and declared independence from the then world super power. Apparently the DPP government on Taiwan lacks this resolve and courage.
TaiwanIsNotChina
They don't want to be annihilated by the thugs on the mainland. This makes sense.
Fos
About (TaiwanIsNotChina). He is a US Secret service informant, created by the AI, who keeps repeating the same falls statements. This is how the mighty American government tries to brainwash people, to please their own lobbies in Washington. Ethically incredible that such apparatus could even exist :(
TaiwanIsNotChina
I'm glad you think I have the knowledge of the entire internet at my disposal.
Well if lies about who started wars and who is aggressive are repeated, they will be countered as many times as is necessary.
isabelle
I and others have already explained it several times, and I have provided a link that states US policy.
If you still don't understand it, I'm afraid I can't help you any further.
Zaphod
isabelle
I am afraid you have not; you only presented your spin on the issue. And US "policy" is a weasel worded way to have it both ways: Official agree with Pekings "one China" policy, while disagreeing with it.
Zaphod
Fos
Gaza is a different issue, and I wish people would not conflate these topics. Yes, the military industrial complex profits from arms supply to Israel, but they also profit from the arms supply to Egypt, to Jordan, to the Gulf states etc. They profit from every conflict. Fwiw, they even profited from the stupid 20-year war in Afghanistan. Meanwhile, the islamist war against Israel is real, and Israel does have legitimate security interest (such as, most fundamentally, the right to exist). This is very different from other conflicts in the world.
TaiwanIsNotChina
And that's a good thing. If you were an American, you would understand that.
Or, you know, you could be consistent and condemn the actions of russia/China.
Still 3% of gdp.
The war of russia against Ukraine is real, too, and Ukraine has a right to exist. No different.
deanzaZZR
No importa nadie Dear Isabella. The USA does not rule the world.
Fos
@ TaiwanIsNotChina
3% of gdp.
You need to add a couple of hundreds bucks to that percentage, I guess :) But again, I think there are moral and decent ways to earn a living.
On a more serious and less pitiful front, everyone knows the today US is a was economy, more than Russia could ever be. They can keep up with the production of weapons of mass destruction, and they are asking Japan to produce missiles to then ship to US. What a nice gesture from an ally and Japanese tax payers!
Fos
@ Zaphod
Zaphod, nobody is denying the right of self defense of Israel and indeed to exist as a State, but we are talking about the disproportionate use of force in the last year by Benjamin Netanyahu, and the killing of innocent people, children and women.
These are facts verified, which the US administration knows exactly through the likes of Anthony Blinken and Lloyd Austin (Biden is a breed of his own), and who cannot/do not want to contradict the military apparatus in Washington hedge funds in Wall Street.
You are naming wars and conflicts which were initiated by a single entity, not Russia, not China, (Afghanistan, Iraq) from which enormous profits were generated and millions (not thousands) of victims.
The arms provisions to Israel from the US administration this year alone are more than quadrupled, official data, and consider that US led media don’t reveal what is going on really inside those lobbies in the Congress.
Hence these annoying informant’s claims are based on fabricated lies and need to be stopped for the sake of dialogue diplomacy.
TaiwanIsNotChina
Which would make it still... 3% of gdp. Nothing more moral and decent than supporting Ukraine.
So clearly the US needs to spend more on the military, right?
Savio
I do not understand the animosity against China in this forum.
I believe on a daily base we are being led in our anti-Beijing hysteria by the United States which is not concerned that China will attack us, but is worried that its world hegemony is being challenged.
China has not been engaged in military activity for the past forty years. In that time, the US has overthrown numerous governments and illegally invaded many countries. For that reason, and not surprisingly, China focuses on domestic issues and the protection of its borders.
burgers and beers
If China takes Taiwan, it would cut off Japan's Sea Lines of Communication. China would be able to hold hostage Japan's trade, energy, food, and everything else.
Why would China want to hold Japan hostage to the above...any particluar reason? Not just rhetoric.
burgers and beers
TaiwanIsNotChinaOct. 15 06:41 am JST
Let's hope "preparing for any development" means preparing to defend Taiwan.
Are you ready to go and defend Taiwan?
rainyday
Because China could use such position as leverage to coerce Japan into:
A) surrendering the Senkaku Islands to China;
B) surrendering to China's demands with respect to maritime boundaries between the two countries;
C) abandoning its defensive alliance with the United States and becoming dependent on China instead;
D) abandoning its opposition to maximalist Chinese claims in the South China Seas;
E) doing basically anything China wants it to.
burgers and beers
Sure it could, but is extremely unlikely to do so....cost of doing so far outweighs the benefits.
rainyday
Apologists for Nazi Germany in the 1930s seeking to dupe credulous audiences would brag that unlike Britain and France the Nazis were not subjugating large parts of the world through a vast colonial empire.
That didn't make the Nazis right when they sought to conquer Europe, nor does what you say make China right as it seeks to dominate East Asia through the threat of military aggression today.
TaiwanIsNotChina
I totally would!!! My Mandarin isn't great, though.
TaiwanIsNotChina
So how does assaulting ships in the SCS and Taiwan Strait protect the PRC's borders? Also China's allies are now trying their own regime changes with nary a word from Peking.
isabelle
Perhaps you don't read the news.
Here we go again - blame the US.
It's engaged in military activity right now, violating the Indian border, and military/paramilitary activity in the South China Sea.
Remember, China's "Coast Guard" is part of the People's Armed Police, which reports to the Central Military Commission, just like the PLA - there really is little difference. And China's paramilitary "fishing" [sic] fleet ultimately does likewise.
Here we go again - blame the US.
Stealing your neighbors' territory and attacking their ships when in those countries' own waters, is not "protection of borders." It is unprovoked, state-sponsored aggression.
isabelle
Such cost-benefit analysis clearly does not matter to Xi, as he clearly appears to be driven by ideology and the usual dictatorial lust for power.
The costs of alienating all your neighbors, trading partners, and investors, and ruining your economy just to increase CCP control and steal a little more territory (when you're already one of the world's largest countries) clearly outweigh the benefits... but Xi still does this.
It's the same with other authoritarians, like Putin, Stalin, Hitler, etc.
rainyday
If China has already conquered Taiwan militarily then the cost of it doing whatever it wants to Japan with its newfound dominance of the seas surrounding it is basically zero, so your argument makes no sense.
The costs of invading Taiwan are, of course, extremely high, but whatever it gains vis-a-vis Japan is going to be a very minor point in the "benefit" side of the equation for them, far outweighed by the value Xi attaches to taking Taiwan itself.
Savio
Isabelle those that I've mentioned are history facts, events that you can't dispute, and find on any truthful history book in Europe. I am not talking about social media or news, and certainly not in China or Russia media.
Fact: If China was an imperial power as you describe it, it would have swallowed up Mongolia, a democratic, mineral rich state which is more than twice the size of Ukraine.
We need to put these stories into context. I think the narration you are creating is one sided does not help the discourse
Savio
Taiwan same as above you are not putting history into context, not sourcing your fiery narrative. To start with, it would help if you lower your one side rhetoric.
TaiwanIsNotChina
I'll be as exercised as I want in the defense of 24 million people and their freedoms.
Savio
All right then, I will leave you to it then :)
A bit like "Don Quixote fighting windmills", attacking imaginary enemies or evils.
isabelle
This isn't a "fact" at all. It's an assertion. No-one can state this as "fact" with any authority.
Which ones? The one that "China has not been engaged in military activity for the past forty years?" I proved that wrong.
Or the US stuff? I am fully aware of the US's history, but it has nothing to do with China's current aggression. It is, as I say, just the usual "tu quoque" tactic of blaming the US for everything to deflect blame from China.
Savio
isabelle
Assertion or fact, I am expressing an 'opinion' which cannot be disputed, Mongolia is a free sovereign state, and neighbor to China.
The tactic that you mentioned is subordinate to Washington history. Which is described on history books.
It is now well over forty years since China has been at war. By contrast, the United States has repeatedly embarked on military interventions across the globe. In the course of the 20th century, it has participated in 39 armed conflicts, or one every three years, and since 2000 it has engaged in at least 12 wars, the equivalent of one every two years.
Forcing Asian countries, to choose between the USA and China is unlikely to work. Even close Asian allies of the US have shown that they prefer to go their own way in geopolitics.
rainyday
So the bar for proving that a country isn’t imperialist is that if countries simply exist next to it, it isn’t?
(Looks at map), OK, so Mexico and Canada both exist, therefore the US is not an imperial power, otherwise it would have taken them over.
Neat how that logic works.
Savio
rainyday
It is about perceptions, I am referring to the anti-China hysteria which I see built up in this forum. If we judge Beijing's behavior with the same logic employed while we question the legitimacy of the safety of Taiwan, then Mongolia could be at risk. And since it is not, we must assume the persistent goading of China is just an illusion.
isabelle
No problem with opinions. Just don't try to claim they're facts when they're not.
I note you changed your argument from "military activity" to "war."
Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that China is currently engaged in aggression against its neighbors, both kinetic (military/paramilitary) and non-kinetic.
Here we go again - blame the US. Tu quoque fallacy.
Reporting and commenting on what China is actually doing is not hysteria.
"You" can assume that if you want, but "we" must not, as your logic is simply laughable.
But feel free to continue amusing us if you wish. I thought this thread would be long dead by now, but there are evidently some gems still to be found here.
rainyday
This is just nonsense. We can judge China’s threat to Taiwan by how China is threatening Taiwan. China not threatening to invade Mongolia tells us as much about China’s intentions with Taiwan as the US not threatening to invade Canada or Mexico in March of 2003 told us about its intentions with respect to Iraq - absolutely nothing.
Savio
isabelle
I need to remind you that my opinion (which is another word for assertion) is actually a real fact, an occurrence. I am referring to Mongolia here.
The fallacy you imply is indeed real as you have mentioned earlier on, and your side of the story is hypocritical because of the historical facts I have just listed, which you cannot dispute. And above all you cannot make up wars that China was involved in, only present “alleged threats”. That is the definition of hysteria.
The basic fact is that China has become the major resident power in the Asia-Pacific region and is, and will remain, active in it, and we simply have to accept and get used to that.
Savio
rainyday
Come again with Iraq 2003? I don’t really follow your narrative.
We are talking about history and facts here?
I thought the principal reason for invading Iraq, that Saddam Hussein had WMD, was a lie fabricated by Washington . That is in the history books.
Or am I missing something? Never mind I can see where these conversations are going.
I am starting to think that real propaganda do exist and perhaps truth is just an illusion.
rainyday
“Analogy
noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.”
Zaphod
TaiwanIsNotChina
Or, you know, you could be consistent and condemn the actions of the US. We can play this game forever.
Fact is, not every conflict in the world is identical and has the same background. What is consistent is US attempted hegemony over the entire planet. Who else has 800 military bases around the world and unilaterally decides to intervene everywhere at will? In case of Taiwan, they decided to make a convenient agreement ("one China policy") but then act as if that agreement never existed. Hey, it is just words....
TaiwanIsNotChina
Good for them I guess. They had to toss China out to achieve it on some level. In any event Taiwan is in a much more precarious position given Peking's unwillingness to compromise with democracies.
A "fact" irrelevant to defending Taiwan from destruction.
Allies such as...
TaiwanIsNotChina
I do condemn the few select actions in need of it, like the Iraq war and the support for Israel. As an American unlike you that is especially relevant.
If you were American, you would not be concerned about this. The garbage three communiques are just words that were written to deal with Peking petulance.
TaiwanIsNotChina
The threats of China we can see with our own eyes are important.
But will not be allowed to bully smaller nations.
Savio
TaiwanIsNotChina
I think another reader, Zaphod, is right. Until you put your personal convictions aside, we can go on forever. For the sake of accuracy and correctness we need to put official history facts in front of your narrative, and then you can freely express your personal views, without flawed accusations.
The reason why I am conveying doubts about your position is that your narration is based on “assumptions”, there is no real evidence of what the alarmists pro US media are anticipating. And I need to remind you that, based on history facts, past and present, what we should be aware is another plausible conflict instigated by the player you are arduously defending.
China does not have a history of military aggression beyond the defence of its own borders. It has only one foreign base in Djibouti, mainly for anti-piracy purposes.
In contrast, the US has over 800 overseas bases including in Guam, Diego Garcia, ROK and Japan that ring China. The US fleet regularly patrols off the China coast.
As China reasserts its historic world role there is no doubt that Chinese influence and footprint is growing in our region but there is no evidence whatsoever that we are under military threat from China.
isabelle
As previously demonstrated, China is engaged in military aggression right now that is nothing to do with the defense of its own borders. And that's without even considering its "history" in things like the annexation of Tibet.
Your attempt to paint China as a "benign" power is ludicrous.
No role should involve attacking others and stealing their territory, as China is doing.
As previously demonstrated, several countries are enduring military threats, and actual aggression, from China right now.
If there is "no evidence" to you, perhaps you are not looking hard enough, or just parroting the CCP line.
deanzaZZR
Right, except Taiwan is a Province of China with a rebel government hiding away there. Aside from that you have "demonstrated" so much. If you haven't visited before, I suggest you visit Taiwan if you have a chance. You will get along more easily if you speak and read Chinese.
TaiwanIsNotChina
A rebel government that is orders of magnitude more respectable than the garbage CCP.
TaiwanIsNotChina
The official history is the PRC is ramming boats in international waters and conducting military exercises around Taiwan regularly.