Putin lowers threshold for using his nuclear arsenal after Biden's arms decision for Ukraine

The new doctrine allows for a potential nuclear response by Moscow even to a conventional attack on Russia by any nation that is supported by a nuclear power.

More sabre rattling by Putin. Empty threats. He wants to influence Trump with this. But Trump's choice of secretary of state is a hawk, so it will likely change nothing.

German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said in Warsaw that her country would not be intimidated by Russia’s new policy, saying her country made the mistake of cowering in the face of Moscow's aggression in the past but would not do so again.

Exactly. Cowering to Putin only encourages him.

This is putting western sponsors on notice that using proxies to attack Russia is not going to go unpunished.

Russia has every right to take self-defense measures in reply to proxy attack.

JJE

This is putting western sponsors on notice that using proxies to attack Russia is not going to go unpunished.

Russia has every right to take self-defense measures in reply to proxy attack.

And Ukraine has every right to take self-defense measures in reply to this Russian attack.

Put up or shut up

Trump's choice of secretary of state is a hawk, so it will likely change nothing.

In reality, Rubio will most likely be a fairly weak SOS. He's not an adept negotiator, he's not very smart, and he'll do whatever Trump and his closest advisers tell him to do. I suspect Elon and Don Jr. will have more of an impact on foreign policy than Little Marco.

Biden is going down swinging endorsing Kamala, scorching the earth of the Dems electoral landscape and now the brink of of another front in the war.

Never underestimate old people’s power.

Trump wants to end the war and break up the Sino-Russia relations, an old idea that worked once upon a time with Nixon and it is why PRC China joined UN and ROC China was dumped and thrown under the bus by the US and its allies.

Let’s see if Trump uses ROC Taiwan as a bargaining chip again…talking about squeezing every bit out of a bait.

“If I’m going down, YOU’RE going down” : Centrum

Certainly Putin's decision makes use of nukes more likely. The US does fear nuclear war, but in such a way that would cause them to go after anyone threatening to use them. I'm sorry to hear that things are going down this path.

There won’t be WWIII but this conflict will end soon with Russia being in control of all land it has occupied.

falseflagsteve

There won’t be WWIII but this conflict will end soon with Russia being in control of all land it has occupied.

It won't end any time soon if Ukraine don't get security guarantees.

let me see if i have this right.

russia attacks and invades ukraine.

russia launching missiles from russia into ukraine - ok.

ukraine launching missiles from ukraine into russia - not ok.

did i get that right?

The demented dwarf in the kremlin bunker is frothing at the mouth again, someone forgot to give him his medication.

Same threats and sabre rattling as for the last 1000 days of the 3 day invasion.

Like Peter Neil said above:

russia launching missiles from russia into ukraine - ok.

ukraine launching missiles from ukraine into russia - not ok

Usual Muscovite hypocrisy.

did i get that right?

nope

Peter Neil

let me see if i have this right.

russia attacks and invades ukraine.

russia launching missiles from russia into ukraine - ok.

ukraine launching missiles from ukraine into russia - not ok.

did i get that right?

Yup.

Russia has every right to take self-defense measures in reply to proxy attack.

Who invaded who?

It is refreshing to see America with a strong leader who doesn't bow down to despots like the previous guy did.

Important to observe the USA has a long and documented history of threatening non-nuclear armed states and parties involved in conflicts it was embroiled in with nuclear retaliation.

The first example of this, of course, Japan.

Second example is the Korean War, in which nuclear weapon use was widely threatened against (then non-nuclear armed) China and Pyongyang (whose country it was)

Third example is Nixon in the Vietnam war, who widely threatened Hanoi (whose country it was) and Beijing. Kissinger used to boast how he'd tell foreign leaders what an unpredictable madman his boss was and use that - threat of nuclear strikes - to basically threaten other countries.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is more.

let me see if i have this right.

russia attacks and invades ukraine.

You got it wrong, that's not how it started.

JJE

Important to observe the USA has a long and documented history of threatening non-nuclear armed states and parties involved in conflicts it was embroiled in with nuclear retaliation.

The first example of this, of course, Japan.

Second example is the Korean War, in which nuclear weapon use was widely threatened against (then non-nuclear armed) China and Pyongyang (whose country it was)

Third example is Nixon in the Vietnam war, who widely threatened Hanoi (whose country it was) and Beijing. Kissinger used to boast how he'd tell foreign leaders what an unpredictable madman his boss was and use that - threat of nuclear strikes - to basically threaten other countries.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is more.

Indeed when Trump was in power last time, he threatened North Korea with using a nuclear weapon against them.

I wonder what will happen this time...

It is refreshing to see America with a strong leader who doesn't bow down to despots like the previous guy did.

Who is it though? Because it sure isn't Biden or Kamala.

Wick's pencil

let me see if i have this right.

russia attacks and invades ukraine.

You got it wrong, that's not how it started.

It certainly is how it started.

That's how imperialism always works.

Yeah, yeah. This guy's like the school bully when you hit him in the face and he "swears" that he's going to beat you up (terms and conditions apply).

It’s not about what’s okay or not okay.

It’s about notification, knowledge of what is coming, and the duty to let the other side know.

Lessons from the Cuban missile crisis forgotten by Biden admin.

You got it wrong, that's not how it started.

Yes it is. It really is. The reason WW2 started is because Germany invaded Poland, and the reason this situation is going on is because Russia went after Ukraine. No amount of bloviating changes that. Any statement to the contrary is simply a lie.

Sad to see Russia use violence and threats of greater violence like this to steal the land of a peaceful nation and neighbor.

Sad to see Russia use violence and threats of greater violence like this to steal the land of a peaceful nation and neighbor.

enjoy your WWIII. I won’t, but I will blame Biden and all the NATO \ Ukraine muppets. Only a muppet would call Ukraine peaceful when they were attacking and bombing their own citizens for years before the Russian invasion.

Russia’s Defense Ministry said Ukraine fired six U.S.-made ATACMS missiles early Tuesday at a military facility in Russia's Bryansk region that borders Ukraine, adding that air defenses shot down five of them and damaged one more. Ukraine's military claimed the strike hit a Russian ammunition depot.

Russian's military claimed that the arsenal and its main territory are not damaged. The fire has been put out. Parts of American-made missiles with markings were found at the crash sites of the damaged missile. All those involved in the attack on the Bryansk region are being identified.

Besides Biden, of course.

The strike was carried out using American Pentagon satellites.

The task for the HIMARS launcher, from which the launch was carried out from the Sumy region, was introduced by NATO officers.

Coordination and guidance were previously carried out by NATO aircraft flying from Italy, Romania and Turkey.

Why would Putain want to use nuclear arms if it's true that (according to our entirely neutral observers here) Russia is winning this conflict on every front imaginable, has not lost a single soldier since the conflict began, and is, honest guv, this close to forcing an unconditional surrender?

Russian's military claimed that...

An easy one to resolve: reverse everything they say, and you have the truth.

Burgerland

More sabre rattling by Putin. Empty threats."

Nobody can guarantee that.

Except that every other time the West escalated, nothing happened.

More bravado and never ending calls for escalating by posters hitting keyboards on a comfy sofa chair far away from the front lines is not very persuasive.

Oh, they are persuasive enough to get Biden to allow the missiles in the first place.

Peace is needed asap not more escalation ala outgoing grampa Joe.

Don't forget that as soon as the US allowed these missiles use, the UK and France followed suit. The consensus in the West is that this is right way to deal with Putin.

And it is a good move.

FizzBit

Sad to see Russia use violence and threats of greater violence like this to steal the land of a peaceful nation and neighbor.

enjoy your WWIII.

So where is it? Where is WWIII? Ukraine have already used ATACMS in Russia.

I won’t, but I will blame Biden and all the NATO \ Ukraine muppets. Only a muppet would call Ukraine peaceful when they were attacking and bombing their own citizens for years before the Russian invasion.

A civil war started by Russia.

Well done Sleepy Joe, Harris and NATO!

Pushing Russia and China closer together and improving their relations with Iran and North Korea while simultaneously increasing the likelihood of nuclear war, excellent!

Dr Strangelove is here.

Burgerland

It won't end any time soon if Ukraine don't get security guarantees."

It will end much sooner with Trump admin incoming.

I can't see why. Trump is a novice.

Ukraine will likely get some sort of security guarantees but very unlikely NATO membership.

Equivalent to NATO membership would be fine.

As a thought experiment and nothing more, it would be funny if Vladdy was stupid enough to use nukes, because that would surely be the tipping point to let NATO go all out, and they would reduce Moscow to a brown stain before Putin could call up another ten thousand fifty-year old alcoholics for reserve duty.

US is providing GPS coordinates,give me some graph paper,I can design a GPS map in 5 minutes, even of Tokyo , starting at 35.7,139.7 putting everything in Tokyo on grid

RichardPearce

But if the policy is threatening, then the US policy was threatening Russia when this all started with the Obama backed overthrow of the last democratically elected President

Untrue. The US did none of the sort.

Untrue. The US did none of the sort.

You have to forgive them; lying is all they have.

""The new doctrine allows for a potential nuclear response by Moscow even to a conventional attack on Russia by any nation that is supported by a nuclear power.""

Some of us may know damn well where this is heading. most of us including myself got no idea what so ever but one thing I know for sure this is bad news.

By the look of it War Mongers may get their WISH before the end of this decade.

If Russia used a nuke,the US would not respond

Underworld

Untrue. The US did none of the sort.

That is what people would think if their only information came from the breathless mainstream media narrative, which unsurprisingly never explains any background.

In the event, this recent escalation by the US with new attack rules is an attempt by the outgoing admin to tie Trumps hands by locking him into a war situation. In effect, the neolibs behind Biden are saying: join the forever war, or we all die.

mainstream media narrative,

Anyone who has to rely on tenth grade "I know politics" soundbites simply can't be taken seriously.

Zaphod

Untrue. The US did none of the sort.

That is what people would think if their only information came from the breathless mainstream media narrative, which unsurprisingly never explains any background.

That's strange, because I form my own opinions based on facts from a variety of sources. If you want to argue against it, you have to supply facts that prove this outrageous assertion.

In the event, this recent escalation by the US with new attack rules

Not just the US, but also the UK and France.

is an attempt by the outgoing admin to tie Trumps hands by locking him into a war situation.

It does none of the sort. Trump is free to do what he wants.

In effect, the neolibs behind Biden are saying:

Neolibs aren't behind Biden.

join the forever war, or we all die.

?

russian disinformation is everywhere.

A sad attempt of a failing US administration to exacerbate this conflict to please one more time the usual lobbies in Wall Street. Check the company producing Atacms, Lockheed Martin Corp, +17% year to date.

As we all know the United States played a key role in generating and perpetuating this terrible conflict in Ukraine since the Bucharest Nato meeting in 2008: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0epyHOz-Pbs

putin is crazy to think that the world will accept this "excuses"... my guess he is speaking to his country man, hopping that the lies will stick. When you allow someone to lies to you years after years, some will start to listen.

The US also know what it is like, it will be an hard awakening in a few months or years.

This is more about Putin telling his fellow Russians than warning the West.

Fos

As we all know the United States played a key role in generating and perpetuating this terrible conflict in Ukraine since the Bucharest Nato meeting in 2008.

So why didn't Russia invade Ukraine in 2008?

You will find that the Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO theory thoroughly debunked.

For example, Russia annexed Crimea when they tried to join the EU, not NATO in 2014.

Not only that, Russia has nukes - they aren't threatened militarily.

Putin didn't invade Ukraine in 2022 because he feared NATO. He invaded because he believed that NATO was weak, that his efforts to regain control of Ukraine by other means had failed, and that installing a pro-Russian government in Kyiv would be safe and easy. His aim was not to defend Russia against some non-existent threat but rather to expand Russia's power, eradicate Ukraine's statehood, and destroy NATO, goals he still pursues.

Biden and co doing everything to sabotage the incoming administration, and making it close to impossible for a peaceful, no interventionist solution.. and later blame the Trump administration, no regard to the massive loss of life this will cause.

These questions of why didn’t he do this or that don’t prove anything or solve anything not to mention the incomplete and selective narrative as well.

The new administration, if he makes it to Jan 20th, is trying to negotiate peace but the current one seems to going against that.

The policy is whimsical depending on the administration and so the will is not strong to fight and win or negotiate and reach peace.

the usual lobbies in Wall Street. Check the company producing Atacms, Lockheed Martin Corp, +17% year to date.

Let’s get that last one in before the administration changes.

So Biden who is not fit enough to run for reelection is fit enough to let someone use US troops to fire US missiles into Russia as a last hurrah before he's kicked out for his side losing the election.

Perhaps someone phoned Russia and said, "here is a pathetic attack on your country we are making to shut up our plebs, especially centrist-types who think they are more sensible than the MAGA lot but aren't in reality. Please shoot the missiles down and say whatever you like in response. Just don't confuse them with an actual attack. Its just for show to fool our plebs who think we actually support Ukraine. You can try negotiating again with our next lot".

A quick glance at Russia literature should tell you that they are probably intelligent enough to understand the above without such phone call being made.

Putain, Laughrov, Madvedev ... (not sorry for the spelling) ....

...... always lowering, always threatening, always new red lines .....

They should be careful and should also know that this would also be their end.

The nuclear balance worked some 50 years ago, it still works today!

President Biden and his team finally made the right decision!

Hit Russia on their own turf, make them feel what it's like being bombed day and night!

Finally show Putain where the red lines are drawn!

And don't wait for a Putain buddy like Donald, who would present Ukraine to Putain on a silver plate!

Hoping that others like Olaf Scholz will also finally do what has to be done!

Remember when there was P&Ming over the lack of a "no first use" doctrine by the US? Well now russia has one.

*doesn't have one

If there had been no decision in April 2008 to expand Nato into Ukraine the situation in Europe today and the situation regarding the European Russia relations would look fundamentally different and we would have a peaceful Europe. The catastrophic decision by George W. Bush and Condolezza Rice to expand Nato was totally ill conceived

kohakuebisu

So Biden who is not fit enough to run for reelection

He has advisors and he's obviously fit enough to make decisions.

is fit enough to let someone use US troops to fire US missiles into Russia

You don't know that US troops are involved.

as a last hurrah before he's kicked out for his side losing the election.

It's a savvy move. Because if Putin responds, he risks angering Trump.

Fos

If there had been no decision in April 2008 to expand Nato into Ukraine the situation in Europe today and the situation regarding the European Russia relations would look fundamentally different and we would have a peaceful Europe.

We have a peaceful Europe now. Except for Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Russia's hybrid war in Moldova. The decision in 2008 has had no bearing on Ukraine and Moldova.

Shaky midget Putin should know this : launch any nuclear weapon, and Russian cities will be turned to ash and molten glass. Russia will no longer exist. The only thing remaining of the fascist Russian warmongers will be their shadows burned into concrete. (And, many would say this would be an improvement).

Russia will no longer exist.

What a world that would be.

FosToday 11:55 am JST

If there had been no decision in April 2008 to expand Nato into Ukraine the situation in Europe today and the situation regarding the European Russia relations would look fundamentally different and we would have a peaceful Europe. The catastrophic decision by George W. Bush and Condolezza Rice to expand Nato was totally ill conceived

Not when you consider that people deserve to be free of corrupt russian influence.