China, Taiwan clash over history; Beijing says can't 'invade' what is already Chinese territory

Well, Beijing is legally correct. How many countries recognize Taiwan as an independent nation?

Well, we know who's side Trump us on....

"President Donald Trump on Tuesday appeared to undermine years of US sanctions on Iran, giving its biggest customer China the green light to carry on buying its oil as he seeks to bolster a ceasefire with Israel.

The announcement on social media — which surprised both oil traders and officials in his own government — could undermine the central element of Washington’s Iran policy under multiple administrations, which have sought to cut the regime’s main source of revenue by making its top export off limits.

“China can now continue to purchase oil from Iran,” the president said on Truth Social, amid a flurry of posts demanding Israel and Iran cease hostilities."

So Trump says China can now buy Iran oil to power its factories making weapons to use against us and Taiwan...and Iran gets funding to continue its nuclear program...

America First? America Last...

Exactly. Taipei has precisely zero UN recognition.

Hopefully those old soldiers will march in the observed capital city of China.

Also, right about there being no preparations for an 'invasion' - one cannot invade oneself.

More like an internal police action by legal definition in actual fact.

As always, Beijing is always changing the narrative to suit itself. One of the reasons why it doesn't get much respect worldwide.

Yes, continue to feed your domestic audience your lies and the distorted truth!!

You assume the WH gets to decide if China has the privilege to buy oil from Iran or not - a mistaken assumption.

Ancient wisdom. China, a continent sized country with a history stretching back 3,000+ years has gone through periods of division and unification. The island of Taiwan is the last piece to be unified following centuries of foreign interference and criminal violence.

話說天下大勢，分久必合，合久必分

How old is the Republic of China? It's 113 years old, and will be 114 years old this year. The People's Republic of China? It's only some 70 years old, right? It's simple and clear," Lai said.

Then Lai neglected to acknowledge that The defeated Republic of China, founded after the 1911 revolution that brought down the last emperor, fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war to Mao Zedong's communists, and that remains the island's formal name.

For China this is unfinished business.

If someone were to claim that the ROC defeated the Japanese it would be rather like insisting that the Americans won the Revolutionary War singlehandedly—or that the Americans remarkably bested Nazi Germany without any help from anyone else. 

Let’s not forget that back in 1937, when the Communists decided that the ROC general needed a gentle nudge (or a firm tug, really) via a bit of a clandestine abduction 張學良, it wasn’t exactly a scene from a one-man show. 

Old Wellington doesn’t even like his Chinese name, Vi Kyuin.

In Chinese, His real name is 顧維鈞 (Pinyin: Gù Wéijūn; Wade-Giles: Ku Wei-chün), but he prefers his imaginary colonial name.

Wellington Koo – the sort of name that sounds as if it were custom-designed for a dashing diplomatic coupe. Now, pray tell, Mr. Koo, are you perhaps a tad ashamed of your less glamorous, ordinary given name?

Yes we know Peking will use a 75 year old justification to wipe out or enslave 24 million people.

ZaphodToday 02:36 pm JST

Well, Beijing is legally correct. How many countries recognize Taiwan as an independent nation?

More than recognize russia's disgraces.

deanzaZZRToday 02:56 pm JST

Previous rivals didn't have allies with navies and nukes.

I wonder how long it would take Taiwan to develop a nuclear weapons program.

Taiwan, which is undisputedly 100% part of China historically, will be reunited with the decent Mainland one way or the other, seems to be the fair point Beijing is making.

Fortunately, one path is peaceful, this being the templates applied to Hong Kong and Macau, the respective reunifications of which having proven to be smashing successes by any measure, could easily be emulated here. There is zero reason Taiwan cannot live under Beijing.

Having a proxy just off China's coast is not sustainable and this scenario will have to be rectified as we transition into a multipolar world.

Though the two sides of the Taiwan Strait have not yet been fully reunified, the historical and legal fact that compatriots on both sides belong to one China and that both sides' compatriots are Chinese has never changed,"

That changed in 1949 as the world knows well when CCP declared it had taken over the mainland of China, and changed its name to the peoples Republic of China, while the original Government of the Republic of China moved its capitol to Taipei on the island of Taiwan. These are facts that can not be disputed, they happened.

CCP split China in two with its revolution, and it retains control of by far the larger portion. There was no surrender of ROC, so two China's have existed side by side for 76 years.

The island of Taiwan is the last piece to be unified following centuries of foreign interference and criminal violence.

China was not split by outside forces but by rebels within calling themselves the CCP. PRC has never been in control or owned the Island of Taiwan, but they clearly want to take it. Generations of Taiwanese born after 1949 do not consider themselves to be the same people as those in mainland China. They identify themselves as distinctly different and individual from the nation of Taiwan. No amount of posturing and threats from PRC alter anything. They have never controlled Taiwan ever in history so can never be reunited, they can only conquer those who want nothing to do with PRC.

Taiwan is as separate and sovereign a nation as any other on the planet. That China refuses to acknowledge this is like asserting the son does not shine. It clearly does.

"Though the two sides of the Taiwan Strait have not yet been fully reunified

Wrong.

The PRC has never once ruled Taiwan. Taking Taiwan would not be a "reunification;" it would be an annexation.

"Taiwan is a part of China; there is no invasion to speak of," she said.

Wrong.

ZaphodToday 02:36 pm JST

Well, Beijing is legally correct.

Wrong.

deanzaZZRToday 02:56 pm JST

Ancient wisdom. China, a continent sized country with a history stretching back 3,000+ years

Got to love the "ancient Chinese wisdom" line.

As Lai rightly points out, the PRC is "only some 70 years old."

The island of Taiwan is the last piece to be unified

Wrong.

following centuries of foreign interference and criminal violence.

"Foreign interference and criminal violence" is exactly what Xi is threatening, in defiance of the UN Charter:

...

https://untso.unmissions.org/sites/default/files/united_nations_charter.pdf

3. All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.

4. All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Well, Beijing is legally correct. How many countries recognize Taiwan as an independent nation?

But there is the rub. Why do they not formally recognize Taiwan as independent? Because of threats from China, a military and trade superpower. If China was to withdraw its unfounded claim many nations around the world would recognize Taiwan in days.

Try saying that is untrue. It will show you are incapable of recognizing anything but PRC propaganda.

TamaramaToday 04:14 pm JST

To help people understand this

You're clearly not trying to "help people understand" at all. You're trying to muddy the waters to engineer support for the PRC's false claim.

This history is clear, and none of it gives the PRC the right to rule Taiwan.

Your little stories change nothing.

JJEToday 02:42 pm JST

Exactly. Taipei has precisely zero UN recognition.

All due to the PRC's irrational threats.

And the UN still does not recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC. The PRC has been called out over and over for its lies regarding Resolution 2758. For instance:

...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/C/2025/487/oj/eng

Misinterpretation of UN resolution 2758 by the People's Republic of China and its continuous military provocations around Taiwan

...

(And, FYI, Ukraine has UN recognition but that didn't stop your Kremlin war criminals invading.)

Other countries governments have never controlled large swathes of their country - this has not stopped Western governments from asserting they should (and using force to get them back).

Moreover, one could make the argument that the Chinese Civil War is not actually over. Beijing has never recognized Taipei as sovereign and, more importantly, no formal peace treaty was ever concluded. This translates into meaning the actual civil war is in hiatus and could restart at any time.

Remember there have been several Taiwan Strait Crises with actual military action in the 50s and 60s. There could be more. Hopefully, peaceful reunification will prosper, as the world just saw what massive barrages of ballistics can do over much longer ranges.

Hopefully, peaceful reunification will prosper.

You can reunify with what you were never a part of. Unless you revert to ROC rule. But the PRC wouldn't allow a reunification, only a conquest of ROC who are a peaceful nation.

The people of ROC will NEVER ever, ever choose to be ruled by the CCP run PRC. EVER!

You can

You can't.

JJEToday 04:37 pm JST

Your China pole is aging and unemployed and your russian pole is notexistant. Hong Kong did not have an army or a strait to defend it.

isabelle

You're clearly not trying to "help people understand" at all. You're trying to muddy the waters to engineer support for the PRC's false claim.

You are fixated on the CCP, I'm talking about China.

The story I transposed is historically factual and accurate.

Taiwan has a right to exist as the legal continuation of the ROC. No amount of buying votes at the UN changes this.

Taiwaninot china

Now explain how the Soviet Union gave birth to the wretched CCP.

It's your Red Herring, so you can do that.

JJE

Nicely put.

TaiwanIsNotChina

More than recognize russia's disgraces.

I do not know what that is supposed to mean. A "disgrace" whatever you mean by that is not a country. And neither is Taiwan, unless you recognize it as such.

Nothing but bad news this China.

Go do one, Communist China. Taiwan is a free nation, more advanced than the PRC, a democracy, progressive, a mature nation where you can criticise or disagree with the government without being locked up.

Well, Beijing is legally correct. How many countries recognize Taiwan as an independent nation?

I guess the nations that recognise the Taiwanese passport and issue visas for Taiwanese people. That is, ALL of the developed world.

I guess the nations that recognise the Taiwanese passport and issue visas for Taiwanese people. That is, ALL of the developed world.

An excellent point. If the world thought Taiwan was a province of PRC China they would demand PRC passports, and accept nothing else. The fact that the world accepts independent Taiwanese passports does show a clear example of the world accepting Taiwan is a sovereign nation.

I am unaware of any nation that does not accept the use of Taiwanese passports, including PRC China itself.

The nationalists lost the first phase of the ongoing civil war on the mainland by undisputed knockout, however that has not ended the conflict by any measure.

More rubbish commentary, the civil conflict is over. Trade and tourism has been ongoing for decades and does not happen when a conflict is is ongoing. Clutching at imaginary straws by the pro China brigade.

JJEToday  04:20 pm JST

Taiwan, which is undisputedly 100% part of China historically

No it's very disputable.

Taiwan has been owned/controlled by hte Dutch, Spanish, Ming Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, Imperial Japan and the Republic of China.

It has never been under the control of the Peoples Republic of China.

@OssanAmerica

It's not disputable as a matter of international law. That's why responsible and diligent members of the international community like Norway, Switzerland, Finland and others recognized the PRC as the legitimate government over all China as early as 1950 when the outcome of the civil war became clear.

Just because the losers of the civil war continue to be hold up on part of the territory does not split the country into two new entities. There are states in Africa that have never exercised full control over their territories since independence, but we recognize their authority over the entire territory as a matter of international law.

Taiwan and the mainland could be peacefully reunited, if the mainland adopted Taiwan's democratic system of free, multiparty elections, checks and balances among the different branches of government, an independent judiciary, non-political police forces, actual rule of law (not rule of a party or dictator), respect for individual rights, protection of ethnic groups' rights, etc., etc. Of course, that would mean the end of the one-party dictatorship of the CCP, along with all its corruption and cruelty.

Taiwan can't rely on the USA as a Allie. The USA have the worst history for being a Allie. Was a England and Frech Allie before the Great War and only give support in the final year because of the sinking the lusitania, Was again French and England Allie but refuse to enter the European war and only the attack on Pearl Harbour that was them join there Allies in Europe in 1942 4 years after Poland was attack. But USA will demonise any country if the same no show happen to them EG the False Flag war on terror when Bush fretted any country that did not join in. Yeah Nah Tawian will have no support but rhetoric talk by countries having concerns Don'tt put your faith in the USA they only care about what's suit them.

M3M3M3Today  08:28 pm JST

@OssanAmerica

It's not disputable as a matter of international law. That's why responsible and diligent members of the international community like Norway, Switzerland, Finland and others recognized the PRC as the legitimate government over all China as early as 1950 when the outcome of the civil war became clear.

Incorrect. Whether Taiwan is part of the PRC has never been tested in any International court or Forum, so there exists no basis in International Law.

China claims Taiwan as part of it. Taiwan claims otherwise. Obviously there is a dispute.

Nearly all nations recognize Beijing as the legitimate government of China.

However, all three nations you mentioned, despite recognizing Beijing as the sole govt of China, maintain trade, economic, education, cultural exchanges with Taiwan. There is even a Taiwan representative office in Geneva.

The "One China Policy" in China is interpreted to include Taiwan. However, the U.S, while agreeing that Beijing represents "China", does not recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

There is 1 China.

And there is 1 Taiwan.

The One China Policy was created in the UN purely for greedy reasons. The "West" wanted access to 1B people being able to buy their stuff.

China has much failed logic on these things. Just like Ukraine has never been part of Russia and Palestinians have never had their own "state" in the world. Does Spain have claims to much of South America? Does Mexico have claim to the western half of the USA? Does Japan have claims on all the places they controlled pre-WW2 that didn't want Japanese rule?

No.

China/Taiwan needs to be considered more like India/Pakistan.

The "One China Policy" in China is interpreted to include Taiwan. However, the U.S, while agreeing that Beijing represents "China", does not recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

Yes because China needs America's approval to take back its own territory. If you want to understand it in a way you can empathise with, It would be as if Imperial China defeated Japan in a war then took Okinawa as its own territory only to then lose another war and then agree that they must cede it back to Japan. What type of government is in power isn't relevant. The Communist revolutionaries took the mainland and defeated the nationalists and the world now agrees that this is the legitimate government of all of China and that includes Taiwan. Whether you like or dislike the political system again isn't relevant at all.

@OssanAmerica

Incorrect. Whether Taiwan is part of the PRC has never been tested in any International court or Forum, so there exists no basis in International Law.

The principle of Uti Possidetis has been recognized and applied by the ICJ in many cases over the decades. It's one of the most well established principles of international law. If you can explain why it doesn't apply to Taiwan, I'm interested to hear it.

China claims Taiwan as part of it. Taiwan claims otherwise. Obviously there is a dispute.

The majority of the international community recognizes PRC sovereignty over Taiwan. Of course, Taiwan pays a few tiny states to maintain recognition of the ROC but these are outliers. The situation could change if Taiwan were to declare independence, but that has not happened and the PRC would be within it's rights to invade Taiwan if it did.

However, all three nations you mentioned, despite recognizing Beijing as the sole govt of China, maintain trade, economic, education, cultural exchanges with Taiwan. There is even a Taiwan representative office in Geneva.

The significance of this being what exactly? All of this occurs largely with the consent of the PRC government. Nobody wants to blockade Taiwan and make life impossible for the people.

The "One China Policy" in China is interpreted to include Taiwan. However, the U.S, while agreeing that Beijing represents "China", does not recognize Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

The US is one of the most persistent violators of international law in the world and their policy of strategic incoherence on Taiwan is not widely followed. They are ruthlessly pursuing their own political and economic interests. I'm far more interested in hearing what Luxembourg thinks about the situation.

Taiwan cannot ‘declare’ independence anyway as they have always been independent. No need for any declaration, and no need for China to keep bringing the subject up …and then forbidding it.

If the time is right China and Taiwan might merge some day, but the Chinese government should not force it.

Forcing it would be an invasion.

M3M3M3June 25 08:28 pm JST

Just because the losers of the civil war continue to be hold up on part of the territory does not split the country into two new entities.

Fairly certain it does in practice.

There are states in Africa that have never exercised full control over their territories since independence, but we recognize their authority over the entire territory as a matter of international law.

Sounds like a problem for whatever rebels you are talking about. Not relevant to UN founding member Taiwan.

DeeZeeJune 25 10:43 pm JST

The Communist revolutionaries took the mainland and defeated the nationalists and the world now agrees that this is the legitimate government of all of China

Purchased statements from countries are not relevant.

M3M3M3June 25 10:51 pm JST

The principle of Uti Possidetis has been recognized and applied by the ICJ in many cases over the decades. It's one of the most well established principles of international law. If you can explain why it doesn't apply to Taiwan, I'm interested to hear it.

Sounds like something that is not codified in international law.

The US is one of the most persistent violators of international law in the world and their policy of strategic incoherence on Taiwan is not widely followed. They are ruthlessly pursuing their own political and economic interests. I'm far more interested in hearing what Luxembourg thinks about the situation.

Luxembourg can but bullied. The US cannot.