The gesture was controversial enough, but now come the sub-controversies: Elon Musk is trolling Wikipedia and encouraging its defunding after a description of his recent flourish, seen by some as a Hitler salute, appeared on the encyclopedic website.
The fight pits two of the internet's best-known tech giants against each other -- and highlights the starkly different ethos behind Musk's X social media site and Wikipedia, founded by American entrepreneur Jimmy Wales.
Musk, as the majority owner of X, is behind recent easing of content moderation rules, which has allowed for rampant disinformation across his social media platform, while simultaneously positioning himself as President Donald Trump's right-hand man.
While Musk's animosity towards Wikipedia may focus outwardly on the hand gesture, Wikipedia's goal of factual neutrality makes it a natural adversary to X, a platform increasingly synonymous with heated culture wars, hate speech and disinformation.
Wikipedia and the media at large -- which Musk has increasingly criticized -- also pose a threat by holding him accountable as he thrusts himself into the center of US politics.
In a December interview with New York magazine's Intelligencer, Wales said the aim at Wikipedia is for editors to create content that is "clear and acknowledges the different viewpoints out there" even amid "the rise in divisive feelings, partisanship, culture wars, all of that."
At present, the site is regarded as generally reliable despite being written by a community of volunteers.
The dustup between Musk and Wales began after the billionaire raised eyebrows Monday with his gesticulation at a Trump inauguration event.
Thanking a crowd for returning Trump to the White House, Musk tapped the left side of his chest with his right hand and then extended his arm with his palm open. He then turned around to the crowd behind him and did it again.
As of Wednesday, both Musk's biographical Wikipedia page as well as the page on the "Nazi salute" mention the episode.
On Tuesday, Musk reposted what appeared to be part of that Wikipedia entry, although the wording found on Wikipedia as of Wednesday was slightly different.
The reposted text read: "In his speech during the second Trump inauguration, Musk twice extended his right arm towards the crowd in an upward angle. The gesture was compared to a Nazi salute or fascist salute. Musk denied any meaning behind the gesture."
Alongside the repost, Musk attacked both Wikipedia and the news media, another favorite target, suggesting that each is a purveyor of disinformation.
"Since legacy media propaganda is considered a 'valid' source by Wikipedia, it naturally simply becomes an extension of legacy media propaganda!" Musk wrote.
He additionally called on his supporters to "defund" Wikipedia.
Trolling Musk for his 2022 purchase of X for $44 billion, Wales shot back that: "I think Elon is unhappy that Wikipedia is not for sale."
Run by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, Wikipedia is an outlier among today's internet landscape, dominated by the likes of Google and Meta -- instead harking back to the web's early, idealistic days when the open-source movement harnessed the talents of volunteers to offer free access to tools and knowledge.
Wales asked Musk whether there was "anything you consider inaccurate in that description?" and added that it wasn't propaganda but "fact. Every element of it."
Founded on January 15, 2001, the Wikipedia website started in English but within two months had already launched in German and Swedish. It is now available in hundreds of languages.
"I would say the decline of trust in journalism and politics is quite severe, which then, in some cases, translates into people feeling more angry and lost," Wales told Intelligencer.
But among the Wikipedia community, he said, "we just plug away, trying to be neutral, trying to be clear."
After Musk's 2022 purchase of Twitter, rebranded as X, he gutted trust and safety teams and introduced Community Notes, a crowd-sourced moderation tool that the platform has promoted as the way for users to add context to posts.
But researchers say the lowering of the guardrails on X, and the reinstatement of once-banned accounts of known misinformation peddlers, has turned the platform into a haven for misinformation.
© 2025 AFP
74 Comments
zulander
Or you could say a plethora of diverse information from various sources - which is up to the user to confirm veracity.
nishikat
WP doesn't need funding (a lot of people think they do...but they really don't)
But Trump people need to fund Elon Musk since what will happen to the share price since who on earth will want to buy a Tesla now? Tesla is down 2% today (but still at a bubble....will it go down further?)
Wichi
I can't believe how this was taken out of context.. Elon was thanking the crowd from his button of the heart, I think JP today knows that Elon Musk has admitted to having Asperger's, a form of Autism Spectrum Disorder, which make him act weird, he is socially awkward.. which Infront of the crowd his emotions win over him an act awkward...
Jesus, he is even an Israel supporter.. right, a Nazi salute.. that's why no one now believes legacy Media .. reason why democrats and liberals lost the election...
Geeter Mckluskie
Wales should know that when key information is not presented along with statements, photos etc. it doesn't always paint an accurate picture of a given situation or statement.
For example "There were good people on both sides"...said Trump
This too is "accurate", however, the full statement included "I'm not talking about the white supremicists...they should be condemned", without which people don't have an "accurate" report of the full statement.
Musk's gesture was accompanied by the statement "My heart goes out to you".
Where is that statement in the above article specifically about the gesture?
This is a very detailed description of the gesture. Now ask yourself why Musk's accompanying statement has been left out...when he made that statement while making the gesture!
virusrex
People with asperger or autism would not make the salute because they don't ignore the world around them, much less if they are functional in society.
Which does absolutely nothing to refute the fact that is a nazi salute. If someone puts their middle fingers in your face while saying "look up" that would not make the gesture less of a provocation.
https://bsky.app/profile/january.6.was.a.failedcoup.com/post/3lg7me7zhx22c
Blacklabel
Day 3 of this same nonsense here.
nothing else you could choose?
bass4funk
What a load of garbage.
No, liberals want to bleed this to death while ignoring the same thing they were caught doing, the only thing you can do at this point is just laugh.
Blacklabel
cause they are begging me for a donation every time I go there?
Lionel Lyyn
@Wichi Autism does not turn you into a Nazi... The gesture was an exact copy paste of what H did in the 30s. He is a neo-nazi sympathiser (AFD) and had some anti semitic takes on his platform.
So if it look like a duck, behave like a duck, and quack like a duck, it's definitely a duck, hope you would get the analogy because the denial is severe.
didou
And is that why he is supporting far right parties, due to Asperger’s syndrome ?
raincloud
I'm no Musk fan, but I do think this has been taken out of proportion. It's not the supposed Nazi salute that bothers me about this picture, it's the "f-you" that appears to be on the edge of his lips. Musk shows only pure hatred towards anyone he determines has contradicted him.
nishikat
Why go there? I never pay because they don't need it. President Elon and Trump hate WP so Trump people should not go there in the first place. They have a very high financial foundation so they are financially rich anyway. The only place Trump people should access is TrumpBook, X, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, and INFOWARS.
Exactly. President Elon did the Hitler salute because of President Elon and he wants Trump people to like him. Not because of Asperger's.
Wichi
"People with asperger or autism would not make the salute because they don't ignore the world around them, much less if they are functional in society."
I think your kind of confused , He was doing the gesture "from my heart to you" Jesus, even a child could understand this...
By the way Hillary, Kamala and others had done the same " Nazi salute" in the past and who was whining and crying? No one..
Also X truly is a free speech platform, the liberals just don't like to be challenged and they are si mad that They cannot control the narrative..
virusrex
Seeing how you could not argue anything against it, this means it quite a solid argument.
isabelle
Wales is absolutely correct here. The facts of the article are indisputable, and nothing Musk says will change this. Namely:
Musk made a gesture (twice); people compared it to a Nazi salute; Musk denied any meaning behind it.
Musk's argument here is unsound.
The argument is "valid" in the sense that the conclusion follows from the premise, but it is "unsound" as one of its premises (that legacy media is propaganda) is not guaranteed to be true.
In short, Musk is wrong.
I hope this will lead to an influx of donations to Wikipedia for precisely this reason.
Bob Fosse
"In his speech during the second Trump inauguration, Musk twice extended his right arm towards the crowd in an upward angle. The gesture was compared to a Nazi salute or fascist salute. Musk denied any meaning behind the gesture."
What is incorrect about this? Any maga whisperers can explain specifically?
Wichi
@ Isabelle
Your word salad explanation, doesn't make sense at all.
nishikat
It's easy to believe H or K was a misunderstanding because they are not weird people. The problem is Trump and President Elon do stuff like this and other things like calling people pedos and things like that ALL THE TIME. They consistently do off things constantly and it amounts to one undesirable person. But just see how the stock price of Tesla is in the future. But why is President Elon doing these things when he should go back to the office and manage Tesla? Who is in charge there?
wallace
Musk has vocally supported the extreme right-wing Nazi parties in Europe so his "salute" is hard to dismiss.
nishikat
I don't know. I don't care. It's not my problem. Just ignore WP when they ask for money.
Tokyo Guy
He won't be happy until he has absolute control of all internet media.
Fortunately, this is unlikely, although I'm sure he will be investing some of his vast wealth into trying to make it happen.
Here's the problem for his stans and fanboys
Actual, self-styled Nazis have called it a nazi salute and are trying to co-opt it. They're celebrating it, much like the Proud Boys did with "stand back and stand by". Expert historians have called it a nazi salute. They showed it to regular citizens in Germany, and the reaction was almost unanimous: basically, "if he did that here he'd be arrested if he wasn't beaten to a pulp first".
The only people who are calling it anything else are Musk stans. Nobody else.
Like I said though, even the most technologically challenged person knows how to download a video, take a screenshot, etc. That gesture is now preserved for eternity. Musk could buy and own every media outlet in existence, but he couldn't stop people flooding them with the image in question. How about printing it out and sticking it on a wall somewhere? He can't stop that either.
isabelle
It certainly does make sense, and it demonstrates why Wales is right and Musk is wrong.
If you don't understand it, please read up on "validity" and "soundness" in formulating an argument. Such as:
https://iep.utm.edu/val-snd/
owzer
Anyone who think that was a Nazi salute definitely did not listen to the speech, or if they did, they are purposefully and willfully taking it out of context. Freeze frame it and provide no context? (as JT has done in this smear article) Sure, it could seem pretty bad - especially when you put "nazi salute" in the title. Well done.
WoodyLee
The time has come for Mr. Musk to just Stick to Tech and Auto's and and leave Politics alone or soon he will become a burden on the Trump admin. and it's allies.
Bad Haircut
Are you seriously arguing that this was a Nazi salute?
Good grief...
virusrex
No they have not, not even remotely close
https://www.threads.net/@theskepticscribe/post/DFHWuPxMDsh
I think University history professors saying it was are a much more reliable source than nameless people on the internet saying it is not.
Blacklabel
The fact that there is an entry in Wikipedia at all pushing this false narrative and there still articles 3 days later trying to keep pushing it is, is what’s wrong here.
no such entries for the similar gestures of anyone else, correct?
Wanna see Obama or Kamala or Hillary doing this gesture? Is there a Wikipedia entry comparing their gestures to a Nazi salute?
bass4funk
Ok, so you are essentially saying, Musk, Warren, Obama, Hillary and Kamala are all Nazi sympathizers?
Blacklabel
Oh really?
nishikat
Why would a Trump peron go to WP. Non-Trump people (such as myself) don't access Rush Limbaugh or FOX. President Elon discourages MAGAs from accessing Wikipedia.
WoodyLee
Watched the Vid. of Mr. Musk pounding his chest then extending the arm and I honestly don't understand why he did that and did he really mean it!?? he seemed overwhelmed by the attention and running out of words so I'll leave to the rest to judge or time will tell.
Regrettable and confusing at the same time, it goes to show $$$ can't be everything.
Bad Haircut
There you go again, appealing to authority and steadfastly refusing to take the context into account. All you're doing is taking a snapshot in time that makes one thing look like another, then ascribing the wrong meaning to it based on the political leanings of some academics.
GuruMick
Answer hinges on this....Did he goose step when he left the stage ?
virusrex
Nobody is saying it because only Musk made the salute.
https://www.threads.net/@theskepticscribe/post/DFHWuPxMDsh
Ignoring the evidence that proves your claim is false only makes it obvious you have no response against that evidence.
Really, the video is there, there is not even a minimum of a resemblance.
Valid, pertinent authority on Nazi salutes, there is no context that makes this different from what it is. It is not a snapshot, is a video showing clearly the Nazi salute repeated twice aggressively. It is the only meaning associated to this gesture, Musk can say (or pretend) to have done it to troll people, or to make a scandal, etc. What he can't pretend is not to have done it, because he did.
When you automatically reject what the experts in a field say because you refuse to accept it that is where you demonstrate zero critical thinking.
Norm
Yes. Please post.
mrtinjp
At present, the site is regarded as generally reliable despite being written by a community of volunteers.
No such thing, wikipedia is hardly the source for anyone looking for facts..
isabelle
Yes, he is autistic and I do have sympathy for him when his actions are perceived as "weird." I think there may have been an element of autism in this act (possibly due to overstimulation), but that it doesn't tell the whole story.
Because despite his condition he should be mature enough to realize the consequences and reflect on them later, once the overstimulation has died down.
But given that he doesn't, and that he actively endorses groups like AfD, people naturally assume that: "Nazi-like salute from far-right supporter = actual Nazi salute."
Blacklabel
like you ignored the link I posted with others making the same gesture?
bass4funk
He wasn’t the only one. Hillary, Obama, Kamala and Warren did as well. So, once again, they’re all Nazis?
No, not false, photos don’t lie.
So the Dems were just stretching one arm for physical relief?
What experts, I can reject anything and anyone, you guys do it, even with the photo catching them red-handed.
Bad Haircut
Cough up the goods. Who is this nameless authority on Nazi salutes?
virusrex
That is the thing, the video reference proves beyond any doub that it is NOT the same gesture, not even remotely similar. Not even one of the examples you put shows anybody putting the hand in the chest to later extend the arm.
Precisely, the evidence clearly shows it is not even remotely simmilar except for Musk (with a side by side comparison showing it is the same gesture). You simply saying that what you see is not there is not a rational response, much less an argument.
The video is there, stretching an arm pointing, waving, etc. is not the Nazi salute.
By being irrational, that is the argument against which you offer no counter argument, thus implicitly recognizing it as correct.
Tokyo Guy
The bottom line is, the people who would know best - the Germans - have all but unanimously come out and described it as a nazi salute, and made it clear that Musk would be arrested if he did it in Germany.
The opinions of a bunch of Musk fanboys are completely irrelevant. They can bleat about "context", they can pull out the "whatabout", they can go ad hominem, they can do it all. It doesn't change the fact that the people who are most familiar with that salute, who know more than anyone what it means, have condemned it in the most unequivocal terms possible.
nishikat
Remember when Obama said he had been to 58 states or something? The guy was tired from jet lag and it's easy to believe that was the reason. Now if Trump says that that is because of Trump (same with President Elon). President Elon did his Hitler salute to become popular with the Proud Boys and people like Patrick Crusius (Trump people)
Wasabi
President musk at his best, daddy trump would be proud.
Bad Haircut
Wikipedia discourages people from accessing Wikipedia.
It's useful as a starting point for non-contentious stuff, but a waste of time when it comes to hot topics and people due to the censorship and selective editing.
virusrex
Posted yesterday already
https://x.com/waitmanb/status/1881446968679088467
https://x.com/ruthbenghiat/status/1881460628164120641
Now, how many university professors of fascism and nazi history have said this is not what everybody saw?
Of course there is, the salute is not an arm going down or coming up, is a stretch after touching the chest.
The side by side comparison can't be negated (as long as the person want to keep a minimum of credibility).
wallace
Musk should have been aware that the arm gesture would be interpreted as a Nazi salute and avoided doing it.
GuruMick
If he loves us so much, how about the two hand gesture where the hands are bought together to make a heart sign.
Hmm...Hmmm
Nobody thinking outside the box like me.
Think I will give Musky a call....on a pay phone....land line...old school MAAAN !!!!
Ken
He never cared about freedom of speech or factual information. He wanted controlled speech and misinformation that doesn't impact him negatively. It's funny that this is what makes Musk butthurt of all things
Blacklabel
how would one picture show two separate actions one after the other? Ridiculous.
funkymofo
Basement
virusrex
Again, the video is already posted that prove the many different actions of the other people that make it clear nobody but Musk did a Nazi salute. Ignoring the evidence only proves you could not do anything against it, so you have to pretend not being able to see it.
bass4funk
It’s the same, photos don’t lie
Yes, look at their arms, same position
Ok, so it’s the same, you’re using euphemisms now, doesn’t help your weak argument
Never, being rational is what makes liberals lose it.
Ken
What would you know about it? You're American and they want you to forget about the existence of Nazi's
Bad Haircut
So, two academics who already hate Musk. No objectivity there at all. I saw it too, and it was a clumsy, stiff gesture that at a stretch could be considered a Nazi salute if your heart's set on believing that to be the case.
But as others have pointed out, Musk's mild autism can make him unaware of the finer points of the gestures his body is making, so I'm sticking with he stiff wave explanation. I've got no skin in the game - I like some things he does, dislike others. But there's a visceral hatred of him out there that went into turbo boost when he bought Twitter and cleaned out the left-wing infection.
virusrex
The video is there, I am not lying about it.
Not same position, not same actions, pretending not being able to see the evidence also points out to you being purposefully irrational.
Waving, pointing, lowering arms are NOT the same as rasing the arm after touching the chest, is your new argument that you no longer know what "the same" means?
You are gving reasons you don't want to conduct a rational discussion. That is the same as accepting defeat.
Tokyo Guy
As for the people who refer to Obama and others in what seems like a similar gesture:
Find evidence of those people openly advocating for Germany's extreme right, or hosting them on a personally owned social media app.
It's a pretty easy inference to make: Musk praised, and then hosted on X, a far-right German political party. Then subsequently he makes a gesture which could very, very easily be read as a nazi salute. It's pretty easy to connect the dots.
Find me an example of when Obama, Hillary, etc. did likewise. Then we'll talk.
Blacklabel
we Americans are the reason they DONT exist.
you’re welcome.
virusrex
Academics that put their names and professional careers behind what they say.
Your personal opinion about them is not relevant nameless people on the internet not putting anything behind their comments are not the same. After all it is not like anonymous people are risking anything by clearly repeating irrational claims.
Again.
Now, how many university professors of fascism and nazi history have said this is not what everybody saw?
bass4funk
I never said you did
Arm stretching out. So the libs are Nazis as well.
More euphemisms, failed again.
I do, but I’m not going to allow you to tell something we all can see and pass it off as something different in order to help your weak argument. You are to free to believe whatever you wish, I will as well. Deal with it.
Ken
Maga is the reason why they STILL EXIST in 2025. Democrats don't want to see mess like that in anything other than history books
bass4funk
look at their arms photo, he did
I am wondering the same thing
Ditto
nishikat
Who cares?
wallace
bass4funk
Musk vocally supported the extreme right-wing parties in European elections. He gave an "X" interview to the leader of the German Afd party. But none of the other parties. He also asked King Charles to dissolve parliament and call a new general election. He flirted with PM Meloni of Italy.
That makes his arm gesture "suspect".
Obama never did any of those or vocally support Nazis parties.
nishikat
Who wants that and why?
Someone is afraid to debate me. I win
Norm
Glad to see you agree.
nishikat
How will this effect Tesla in Germany?
Bad Haircut
So what? Are you claiming that academics can't be influenced by their own political leanings? Do you distrust your own senses to the extent that you can't apply your own thinking to what happened and the context in which it happened, as well as take Musk's mild autism into account? Your knee-jerk reaction on basically everything is to immediately defer to what an "expert" said and then take that as the concrete truth.
Left-wing academics in the social sciences can get away with saying anything because they know there are no repercussions for being wrong. Right-wing academics in the same fields have to keep their mouths shut if they want to keep their careers intact.
Raw Beer
Musk's movements are awkward, especially when he's excited. But the accusing him of making the Nazi salute is nothing but a nasty smear job.
Reminds me of similar accusations against French comedian Dieudonne, accusing him of doing an inverted Nazi salute. But if one listened to what he said, it was crystal clear what the action meant, and it was not an inverted Nazi salute.
Same with Musk's "My heart goes out to you"
Ken
Vivek Ram begs to differ
bass4funk
And?
Germany is a mess, sad that a far-right party could be elected to fix the countries immigration problem, thanks to Merkel for destroying it, everyone else is too weak to do something
And?
Suspect, similar to surmise, alleged…uh-oh, more conspiracy theory thoughts brewing…
So because he didn’t say it, I’m supposed to give him a pass, remember, this is the man that caged illegals and try to hide it.
nishikat
Someone says to me Obama made a Hitler salute and I say so what? When someone says President Musk did it, they write a book defending it
nishikat
No. Because mo one cares
starpunk
This should be so obvious to even the most simple minded. So many times there's been 'jokes' about that ugly gesture, which is now banned in Germany with good reason.
But it really began in Italy, which had the first fascist regime under Mussolini. He started it up as a derivation of the 'Roman Salute' to accentuate all his pompous crap talk of 'restoring the glory of the Roman Empire' (deja vous and a precedent of 'M.A.G.A.'). The 'Fascist Salute' was soon adopted by other fascist regimes such as Nazi Germany, Metaxis Greece, Francoist Spain, WW2 Japan (?) and other fascist Axis powers.
And it's been used by fascist regimes after WW2 too, in nations like Peronist Argentina, Chile and more. And of course, fascist/neo-Confederate/'white power'/KKK/militia trash also use that gesture too but not all of them.
Nonetheless with that rotten racist and antisemite Muskrat truly at the WH helm with that fascist pig trump back in it's as clear as winter ice.
Talks like a fascist
That reflects that he thinks like a fascist
Uses that X medium to allow fascists like trump to express their hateful terroristic trash-talking
Jumps up and cheers for a fascist at his rally like a skippy kid
Acts like a fascist
And now gives that ugly fascist salute
Do the math. IS.